Take SFW Mule Deer Poll

Thanks for the heads up!

In all reality, if SFW and the MDF don't propose some changes nothing is going to happen.
 
You are exactly right Prism. SFW has the clout to get something done. There needs to be some give and take and find some middle ground on this issue.
 
Done......... YES

buck1.gif


Later, Brandon
 
Certainly a cut and dry poll....no trick question there! ha

Whatever happened to the 25 unit idea... a little restrictive but a heck of alot better for controling hunter numbers via tag issue in 25 units than in the 5 Huge Regions we have now...

Robb
 
The deer herd is already increasing, we have improved the herd in the last 3 years, what more restrictions do we need? Utah is it will take a few more years but it is headed the right way currently, I think making more restrictions is not going to help. We are already changing hunting from a traditional thing of the past, and making it a rich man sport, pushing families away, and giving hunting to the ego drivin. If we wanted more restriction we should not have let 12 year olds hunt.
 
Best Poll yet by the SFW. If they will indeed take action on the final outcome of this poll I suggest anyone who has an opinion on the issue to vote.

Mike
 
huntinco, while I respect you voting no I'm kind of shocked. I know you hunt and guide mostly private ranches and I know you limit and control harvest on those ranches so why not do it on public land for the average guy. Just curious!
 
The poll results are interesting. Seems there is an overwhelming majority craving mule deer change in Utah. I hope SFW acts accordingly. I would never want to see the general hunt too limited, but the deer herd needs help in a bad way and that should come first.
 
"Overwhelming" ??? 300 people voted out of 90,000?

I voted no. I have no trouble finding and shooting a deer. The LAST thing I want to see is giving up more hunting opportunity. Look at elk, we have insanely big elk now in Utah and most people will never, ever get to hunt them. Sounds like fun to me!

I have family in Reno, it takes them 5-7 years to get a deer tag now and last time they hunted when I talked to them no-one in their party got one. Sounds like fun to me!
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-07 AT 04:09PM (MST)[p]"Overwhelming" Dallan!

250-50 is more than an efficient sample. 30 people qualifies as "sample". 250-50 is "OVERWHELMING." I know I am not as smart as you want me to believe you are, but I am far from stupid. My Statistics class taught me this.

Shooting pisscuttin' 150 bucks sounds like no fun for me!
 
What a bogus poll. Predetermined to get the answer they want. Everyone wants "more deer" and/or "bigger deer", I know I do. But they don't explain what you have to give up. Very dishonest.

P.S. bet I hammered for this.

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"
 
kilbuc,

Good point. I am not going to hammer on you. Knowing what needs to be given up to achieve this is important! I just think the deer herd is struggling and something needs to happen.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-07 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p]I for one am VERY HAPPY to see this poll taking place, and would be willing to bet a train burger that the vast majority of guys voting are in favor of changes.

There are great units in Nevada that can be drawn every year. Sure it's going to take a few years to draw the "primo" tags over there but it's better than the odds of drawing one of Utah's three primo tag areas, most guys will never draw a Henries tag period or a Pauns muzzleloader tag.

I'm happy to see that SFW is finally getting after this issue. I was happy to see that John mentioned mule deer as the top priority in the latest SFW publication-it's been a long time coming. I imagine that it irks certain individuals to no end to have our $!@$'s handed to us every year by Colorado, and most other western states. States that aren't putting near the money "on the ground" for habitat restoration, predator control, etc. etc.....

It's time for a change and it looks like the decision makers are about to do it.
 
Prism,
If they change anything in the near future I will buy you that "train burger"!!

cantkillathing,
I agree with you that there are increasing numbers of deer. The problem is they are not allowed to grow to maturity because of too much pressure in the open units. Even if they gave out the same number of tags but distributed them more evenly so that 40,000 of the 90,000 (just an exageration, but you get my point) weren't hunting the Strawberry/Current creek areas, it would make a huge difference. A definate step in the right direction. All the studies say that we are up from 7/100 buck to doe ration to 17/100. That's great, but I bet if you took a look at how many mature bucks were in those 17, it would be 2 if you're lucky. Distribute the pressure so that those little spikes and 2 points have a chance. Mature bucks breed more does. Makes sense IMO.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
What are people looking for, to be able to shoot a mature buck from the road, the bucks are out there if you get off of your four wheelers and roads, why ruin the deer hunt to satisfy some ego's, like I said the deer herd is increasing and things are going in the right direction. leave it the way it is currently going. I like the fact that people shoot the little bucks, less pressure on the bigger bucks so that if you hunt hard then you will get opportunity on the mature bucks. I think we are trying to hard to make the hole state a limited entry unit, this will hurt us more than it will ever help us, now if the poll was about increasing the amount of deer on limited entry units so that more tags are drawn then I am for it, but general season units shouldn't be limited, I agree that smaller units would help manage herds.
I went to a rack meeting a while back and the issue of the state wide archery hunt was brought up and they voted that the first 2 weeks of the hunt should be region only and the last 2 weeks would be state wide, what happen to this? Does anyone Know?
 
Just in case you haven't been following the general draws, all of the units are LE right now. A lot of people didn't draw a central tag this year and I know a lot of people that got left out this year because they waited to get an archery permit. I bet you see the bow hunt being completely sold out during the draw next year.

cantkillathing - you mentioned that the bucks are there if you get off the roads. Maybe in the southern unit and possibly certain areas in the southeastern unit but not up north. I get off the roads A LOT and there are not a lot of mature bucks in the back country. I would bet that most of your immature bucks are taken right off the roads. They don't know any better until they have been shot at. I just think that distributing the pressure with existing hunters is a good start. Closing some of the backcountry "freeways" is a must if you want to keep people from killing bucks from the roads. Just my oppinion.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
cant,

I would in no way want the whole state to be the "Henry's". My observation has been the deer hunting improved a bit from 93, but we have been treading water for some time now. I would like to see it improve a little and get a stronger herd. I agree that the occasional pig gets killed in Utah, but not many. In 25 years of hiking, riding, spotting, looking at winter range and so forth, I cannot say I have ever seen a 200" buck in Utah? I think your statement to get off the roads is unfair. I never road hunt.

I am no expert on this subject and there has been lots of discussion as how to achieve a better herd, but something needs to happen. I respect your opinion and understand your concerns. We are a far cry from the good old days of 200000 tags!
 
I know that the general season is draw, and you can see how it already sucks to miss hunting for a year, but to limit the tags again would suck even more. Like I mentioned if we wanted things better why did we push to have 12 yr olds hunt, just decreased chances of drawing again, and we will cater to the youth by giving them the tags, we don't even have enough tags to cater to the hunters now, so we lower the age, doesn't make sense.
I guess I agree with one of the post that the poll is unjust because we don't know what we are voting on, what the restriction will be, if we vote yes then they might cut the amount of tags in half so the state only gives 50,000 tags for general season rifle, and then 40% of those will go to youth, so then I would have a chance to draw 1 tag out of the remaining 30,000 tags, with only 1 million people putting in for them. so I might draw a deer tag every 5 years. Sounds like a great plan, Probably have better odds on LE units.
The point I am trying to make is we are going to cutt ourselves out, if you like hunting each year, or every other year it will only get worse. Lets see the plan before we make a vote.
 
That's a good point cant. I am hoping that they don't just act on this poll alone but just get a feel for how many people are satisfied with the way things are vs how many people want a change for the better (the better meaning not just "trophy" quality animals but more mature bucks and a stronger herd). I too respect your oppinion as I do most on here. I would love to hunt deer in my home state every year and have up until the last couple of years. I just don't see that as an option any more if the quality of deer hunting is going to improve in Utah.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
How about 4 point or better for 18 years old and above. 12 to 17 years old can shoot any buck. Helps keep the little bucks from overrunning the place plus a good experience for the younger hunters.....The old farts can have the chance to hunt ever year and in a few years more mature bucks may be taken. It may not be the best idea but its a idea....how many of us old farts like to shoot two and three points anyway?? Yea! Hey chuck come check out this giant two point I got. haha
 
cant,

AWLB makes a good point, close the access roads that litter our mountains. I would rather see this happen than tag cuts, but Utah refuses to do road closures and enforce ATV laws. An idea was tossed out there once to make a license valid for 2-3 years, but only have one tag attached. This would make people be selective in what they shoot.

I can see the concerns you and Dallan post. It is a tough deal, but something needs to happen and I hope SFW acts accordingly.
 
Will restricting hunters to mature bucks help any, My thoughts are that you have now put all the pressure on the mature bucks therefore all mature bucks become more limited, if hunters are spread out, hunting all bucks, then people that are satisfied with a small buck take pressure off those that want to hunt hard for the big bucks.

I still see the biggest issue to our deer herds are the party hunters. I have stressed this over and over, people are putting in everyone in there families to draw tags and then filling the tags. I would bet that 20% of the tags or more are filled by party hunting. Husband shoots wifes deer (2 point) and then hunts for his mature buck.

I do like the idea of road restriction and atv restrictions.
 
"I agree with you that there are increasing numbers of deer. The problem is they are not allowed to grow to maturity because of too much pressure in the open units." (AWLB) Dontkillathing....What do you mean putting all the pressure on the mature bucks? Isn't that what most hunters want to shoot? The pressure is already there problem is the mature bucks aren't. If some are satisfied with small bucks buy a doe tag. Shoot a Ms. Nomad for meat. Hunters will still be spread out..do you know how many 12 to 17 year olds are hunting...a lot "cantkillathing - you mentioned that the bucks are there if you get off the roads. Maybe in the southern unit and possibly certain areas in the southeastern unit but not up north. I get off the roads A LOT and there are not a lot of mature bucks in the back country." (AWLB) Im for shooting a nice buck every 3 years and a waiting period than shooting a smaller one every year... Of course this is inevitable because everythings on its way to a draw in this state.....
 
sounds like this is a northern region issue, so don't push it on the rest of the state,
According the the DWR on opening day or weekend most people are filled out with there yearling buck, so therefore most pressure is not on the mature bucks. If everyone is required to hunt the mature bucks then the hunt will get harder and the herd would get worse, what bucks will do the breeding the left over 2 points.
Again these are general season tags we are talking about not your LE units.
The doe hunts is what has killed the herd in the first place.
If we keep pusing these issues we will end up like the elk hunts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-07 AT 09:24AM (MST)[p]truth of the matter is ..every year there are more and more hunters and fewer deer. Now how do you fix that without limiting tags? It seems to have worked down south fewer tags and great deer hunting. Granted thats not what you want but thats the way the whole state is headed.
 
I love this vague poll (I voted yes)! Results will show "overwhelmingly" support to fix the deer problem. Then SFW leadership will decide the details of HOW to fix it and ram it through the RACs. x(

Why don't they have a few more detailed poll questions related to quality vrs opportunity to REALLY find out what the Sportsmen want?
 
Hey guys this is my first post on this forum and thought I'd chime in on this issue since this is an issue I've thought about a lot. I've always said hunting itself and hunting legislation is a political battlefield like it or not. With that being said to have new rules put in place quickly you have to satisfy others political agenda or at least not interrupt it. The reason I bring this up is I feel if you take a simplistic ?improve the mule deer hunting? approach you will usually have a pitfall somewhere in your suggestion that will bring no change due to affecting other groups? political agenda.

Trust me I don't like it either but it's the world we live in. So what ever changes you suggest it's got to have little or no impact on other groups, at least to have the changes put into effect quickly. If you limit road access then you tick off the ATV and Jeep people. If you limit tags and/or go to all draw, you tick off the more casual hunter and the State loses revenue. The State won't do that. The State has an agenda where they want to cater to all types of hunters, not just the back country hard core hunter. They feel that by doing that they will ?retain? more customers. Party hunting is a real issue but I don't know how you make a real dent without putting more officers in the field, which increases costs and opens up a whole new can of worms for the State. Do you raise permit fees? That would tick off a lot of people from every type of hunting group.

To get the biggest ?bang for your buck (or the biggest buck for your bang)? I think we should do antler restrictions. There are negatives to antler restrictions but if you at least go to 18 or older can only take 3 point or better (or maybe 4), and 17 and younger is any buck you will at least put more mature bucks out there to hunt and that's not bad for anyone and you're probably not going to mess up the States agenda of wanting to appeal to new and casual hunters. Again sure there are some negatives to that but the point is if you only think of our own agenda it's going to be hard to get any sort of change done.

IMO this is a political battle and if you want change then you've got to think like a politician. If you even want change that is.
 
The number of bucks isn't the issue. We got good buck numbers. It's the lack of mature bucks that is the issue. We do more habitat restoration than any other state and sell more wealth tags than any other state, yet are mature buck numbers are way lower in comparsion to our neighboring states.Hmmm...I wonder if hunters aren't killing more bucks than poor habitat, predators, hard winters. I'm not suggesting we cut numbers in half but 1/4 cut in the right areas is needed. I'm all for 25 units with the goal being micro management.It's time for a change.

Mike
 
Mike,

You are right, it is time for a change. Based on the poll respondents, they also feel it is time for change.

My observation is that Utah has treaded water long enough.
 
Mike,

Good points.

I find it interesting that the huge archery buck "Superman" was killed in an area and unit with the worst winter range in the state and in a unit that likely receives no predator control. Yet the Wasatch Front continues to offer thousands of hunters opportunity at mature deer, high buck to doe ratios, etc.... in a general season unit.

How's this done? By managing hunter success! Do we need or want to make the state archery only? Not me, but it goes to show that by limiting hunter success (be it weapon, season dates, hunter numbers, micro management, etc....) that a lot of the bandwagon reasons we're given by the powers that be are, to a certain extent well intentioned hype-habitat, predator control, etc.....

Please don't read into this that I don't think habitat and predator control isn't important because it is. But, I think too often they're played as being the only factors. Habitat and predators are a feel good cause that's easy to rally the troops behind, when perhaps the biggest factor (human predation) continues to be placed on the back burner because it's not popular to talk about.
 
Prism, why not give fewer tags to rifle hunters, while increasing archery permits? Archers have been proven as effective at managing herd numbers without hurting the quality. More archery tags is the future of deer management, it is just a matter of when it gets implemented in numbers that will benefit all deer hunters, and more importantly, benefit the deer herds themselves.

Someone mentioned the RAC's voted to make archers choose a region for the first two weeks. This was only apporved by one of the five RAC's, the rest used their senses and voted against such nonsense.

I voted YES on the SFW poll!

PRO
 
Prism and Mike,

I nominate you two to go talk to DP and Karpo.:)

I would like to see someone from SFW respond and give the reasons behind the poll and some ideas as to how to achieve the goal of better ratios and quality. It is obvious to me people want "better" deer hunting.
 
Closing roads would have the biggest impact on a area(in small scale) this would be the quicker way of re-building the herds from 15 bucks to 100 does it would soon go to 40 bucks to 100 does with a older class of buck in just a couple of short years.
EXP:
SE area Road from Blanding to Monticello backside of Mtn. Closed
Southern Rd from Parwon to Pantiuch lake area.(Horse Valley Rd)
That just a couple of roads I'm sure there is a list of them that could be closed and open up wide area's of wilderness type area's NO ROADS NO ROAD HUNTING, Catchy Idea
I do believe that would really build up a herds bucks in a hurry.
 
The problem in closing public roads is you may not get them opened back up...Argue all sides up and down but.UTAH needs to have its regions split into 25-30 units like other states.Smaller units can be managed better....
 
Prout,

Why would making the archery hunters choose a region be rediculous, you are wanting smaller units for everyone else, but its okay if archers hunt everywhere, what if every archery hunter showed up to your hunting area. Archers should have to pick a region as well, Yes I know they take less deer, but if they all were in one region hunting that year that little succees would be big for one region.
 
There's a lot of creative ways to help keep our deer herds healthy and to increase hunter satisfaction.

I'm all for the road closure idea in certain areas. Several states close roads during the hunting season. Utah closes roads down during the elk calving season so I don't see why they can't do it during the hunting season too???
 
cantkillathing wrote:

"Why would making the archery hunters choose a region be rediculous, you are wanting smaller units for everyone else, but its okay if archers hunt everywhere, what if every archery hunter showed up to your hunting area. Archers should have to pick a region as well, Yes I know they take less deer, but if they all were in one region hunting that year that little succees would be big for one region."

"What IF's' is all you have. As of right now, in the real world, NO single region has an abundance of archers hunting there instead of other regions, this has been verified and re-verifed many times. Don't give me IF's, give me reality. At the current present time, there is NO VALID reason to have archers choose a region, NONE! The making areas smaller would be to prevent over-harvest in certain areas, to date no over-harvesting as occurred as a result of state-wide archery. Just the FACTS!

PRO
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-07 AT 08:08PM (MST)[p]I'll back up Pro on this one. All of the surveys done by the fish and game show that most archery hunters hunt close to home and if they choose to travel, there is just as many people coming from the southern region to hunt the central as there are central hunters headed south.

Seasonal closures of roads, smaller areas to hunt, and decreasing the amount of rifle hunters in the field are the ways I see would make a difference the fastest. I also like the idea of buying a 3 year license with one buck tag attached to it. If you harvest that buck in the first year you are done. It will make people think twice about pulling the trigger on that little forked horn buck with milk on his lips. Fact: mature bucks breed more does.


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-07 AT 09:13PM (MST)[p]What if we doubled the number of available archery deer tags, and made half the tags good only for the Northern half of the state including the extended hunts, and the other half good for the southern half of the state? A person would have to choose what they want. Maybe that way the Northern guys wouldn't complain about southerners coming to hunt the extended, and southerners wouldn't complain about Wasatch Fronters hunting the south on the opener? Maybe that wouldn't do much good, I don't really know too much about archery issues. I do think we could give more archery tags than we do, but every time I say that I hear about how many bucks archers wound. I am not a big bowhunter, so I don't have much experience there, I just know that there are lots of units I can think of that give lots of archery opportunity and still maintain trophy quality. Maybe if we gave a little more archery opportunity, and cut back a little on the rifle hunters we could increase the numbers of mature bucks with out eliminating too much opportunity. I also like Prism's suggestion of making some seasonal road closures. I think we could establish some areas with limited motorized access, and designate some areas where there would not be as many limitations, create some diversity. Limiting motorized access and increasing the number of hunter using primitive weapons could make a difference, but I am sure it would push some people out of their comfort zones. I am interested (and perhaps a little nervous) to see what SFW proposes.
Dax
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-07 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]I want Utah deer hunting micromanaged so Utah's deer hunting can be just like New Mexico's, Arizona's, and Nevada's. Yeeeehaaaawwwww. Bring on that New Mexico Quality. Bring on those Arizona and Nevada waits of 2-5 years between tags for average units and basket head bucks!!!!!!! And Colorado is awesome, but they limit archers to specific units, so that is very badddddd. We don't want to be like Colorado afterall. Hunting every 4 years or so! Waaahhhooooo Buck to doe ratios of 25 to 100; better than 3 of Utah's 7 limited entry units (which have odds of 15 to 1 - 30 to 1)! My boys will be so excited. "Son, we can hunt in 5 years, when you are 17. You will be able to shoot a 24"er from the truck and we can make it home to see High School Musical 9!" I can't wait for these new "restrictions"!

In the mean time I guess I will just have to chase one of the 40+ mature bucks I have seen in the past 3 weeks on public lands in a general season unit (and not even on the Front). Hmmmmmm, do I hunt the fork cheater 30 incher or the old pot-bellied 5x6? Ahhh, I'll just go sleep on it.

(sorry for the sarcastic post, but I have had a long week) Give me the restrictions and I might give you a Yes, but for now it is No.

............................................................
 

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