Question for Mossback

[crimedog]

In the what would you do thread you stated:

" The guy that puts him dowm is the tag owner."

So your saying that even if you mortally wounded your buck and another hunter shot it and put it down it's the other hunters?

Would you walk away from a 200 + inch Muley or a 400 + inch Elk that a hunter you were guiding shot and mortally wounded but still ran off and while tracking it another hunter shot and killed it? Your saying that you would turn and walk away with out saying it was yours and that your shot did kill it and you were in the process of tracking the animal and let the other hunter tag the trophy?

 

[cabinfever]

Tough call. My bro put a buck down that had been hit but would no doubt have lived...a small flesh wound on the ham.It was a trophy buck, and he did not know it had been hit prior to killing it. To avoid further conflict, the guy that wounded the buck ended up with the deer. Long story short the guy ended up not even having a tag. He shot the deer for his wife.He was cited and his wife was allowed to keep the deer.Talk about BS! This happened in Utah. Situations like this really comes down to ethics and honesty. Do you really want a monster buck hanging on your wall that you didn't legitimately put there. If the answer is yes, than I guess than we know what kind of hunter you are.

Mike

 

[arch3614elk]

On a elk hunt a few years ago my wife and I had a cow coming right at us with a busted shoulder. I was very tempted to put her down but didn't, 3 minutes later here comes a hunter on a quick run stops then asks us if we saw a wounded cow elk. I told him it ran right past us and that if he waited for a while the cow would bed down and stop running all over the place. one hour later we see him with his family still chasing the cow. I felt more sorry for the cow elk than I did for the hunter.

 

[slamdunk]

Tough call and it invites hypocrosy, i'm sure.
But on the other hand, asking mossback on the forum? His answer may be diffen't standing at a gut pile.




Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[old_man_of_the_hills]

Quit arguing about this petty crap--such stuff is why this BB is not what it used to be. The odds of someone harvesting, let alone harvesting a previously wounded, critter of the 200" muley or 400" elk class is so astronomical we may as well be discussing what we would do if there was a LE unit on Mars

---------------------------------------
This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.

 

[jmcenulty]

LE unit on Mars? What are the draw odds? How many bonus points do I need to draw?

 

[slamdunk]

Personally i thought it was a legit question, although the numbers mentioned are a bit on the "long stretch" side, but COULD happen and HAS i'm sure.

This is exactly why we have this issue in the field.
It looks like about 95% say first blood keeps the animal, 5% say it's whoever makes it hit the dirt.


Too bad there's not an "unspoken law" that everyone agree's with, but all scenerio's aren't all the same either.

And this is why we have this issue



Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"

 

[WillPower]

Does Mossback frequent this site? Been watching and reading alot of the controversy lately and seems like every thread is a controversy ripping someone, alot of at MB, so if he was here, not sure he hasn't gone away like some of the other hard core hunters who have recently said they are feed up with the BS.

Just curious, the odds on this question are low and seems like some real pot stirring to me, but then again I rarely post anyhow.

WP

 

[justr_86]

i had it happen this bow hunt on a nice 3x4 he was laying about fifty yards from where i stuck him and the guy said he shot him in the neck and it is a better place to hit them than cutting the top of its heart out. it was in a hole on opening morning so i just let him have it because he was ready to get in a fist fight over it.

 

[AZBuckSnort]

The three instances of this happening with me involved have all ended up that the "hunter/shooter", and any co-horts they have along, will always claim the animal as "theirs" no matter how superficial or non-lethal the wound.

Last year a knucklehead grazes the shoulder of a 3X3 with a .22 caliber centerfire (please, let's not get into a debate over the effectiveness of a .22 cal centerfire as a deer cartridge, I know they can kill a deer but are they ideal or even ethical?...I don't think so) after a fairly long shot. The buck works his way down the bottom of a deep ravine, climbs through a thick stand of oakbrush and cedars and then begins to truck it up a slope gimping on the injured leg. No way the "Hail Mary .22 man" is going to recover this wounded buck. I laid it low with my .270 Winchester and hiked over to tag my kill.

As I'm standing over the buck preparing to cut my notches in the permit and secure it to the buck, the other guy comes a panting and hollering at me to "git away there from my deer!!!!" I'm dumbfounded that this clueless twit actually thinks he killed the buck!

After he threatens physical violence, points to his pals on the ridge above pointing their rifles at me as they cover me with their scope reticles, and assures me he and his buddies are "gonna kick my non-resident ass" as "this ain't the way things go down in these parts" yada-yada-yada...I said screw it, take the buck, just make sure that when you get it home and butcher it that you make sure and tell your wife and kids that a marksman from Arizona killed your family's winter meat.

The guy was a complete ass and a criminal in the way he threatened me. By the end of the encounter, I felt the buck wasn't worth the trouble we were headed for and chose to walk away. Would he and his pals have killed me over the buck? I doubt it but why push it and find out? That said, If the buck had been a 195 inch B&C buck, well, we probably would have been rolling around in the dirt and the fella would have received a sound thumping and I probably would have took a slug in the back from the referees on the ridge.

I'll hunt the general hunt in Utah again when I draw a tag, but I will try to find some lonely hell hole to hunt so I lessen the chance of running into another group of the slob hunters like the folks up on the ......

 

[mossback]

>In the what would you do
>thread you stated:
>
>" The guy that puts him
>dowm is the tag owner."
>
>
>So your saying that even if
>you mortally wounded your buck
>and another hunter shot it
>and put it down it's
>the other hunters?
>
>Would you walk away from a
>200 + inch Muley or
>a 400 + inch Elk
>that a hunter you were
>guiding shot and mortally wounded
>but still ran off and
>while tracking it another hunter
>shot and killed it?
>Your saying that you would
>turn and walk away with
>out saying it was yours
>and that your shot did
>kill it and you were
>in the process of tracking
>the animal and let the
>other hunter tag the trophy?
>

I said what I said because thats what I believe, just how far does a MORTALLY wounded deer or elk run.I have killed both and you as a guide should know the answer. Is it 50 to 100 yards or a mile. Not on here to slam anyone I only answered the question of WHAT IF.

 

[jmcenulty]

AZBuckSnort,
Questions for you. If the guy had not shot at the deer with the 22 would you have had the chance to shot it? If he let you tag it how would you tell everyone you shot a deer that someone had already injured? Would it legitimately be your kill?

 

[proutdoors]

Doyle does NOT visit this site, never has!

PRO

 

[rutnbuck]

Now if some one tried to take my deer and they have and did in the past. But that was before I knew Triple K> Who ya going to call Triple K She has been known to wear Army Boots.

Rutnbuck

 

[TripleK]

> Now if some one tried to take my deer and they have and did in the past. But that was before I knew Triple K> Who ya going to call Triple K She has been known to wear Army Boots.
>
>Rutnbuck

That's right! Nobody steals my buddy's buck. You get in a pinch out there in the field, Rut, you just give me a call. I'll get your buck back. Sometmes I need someone new to take my aggression out on. LOL ;-)

 

[BOBCATBEST]

Pro said:

"Doyle does NOT visit this site, never has!"

Thanks for giving me THAT inside info. I have been thinking
about that for the past month. I will definately sleep better
tonight!!

Next time you see Doyle, ask him if he prefers McDonald's or
Arby's. That is something that has been bothering me as well!!

The only bobcat glad to get "Inside Info." from Pro!!!!

 

[proutdoors]

BOBCATBEST, my post was in response to post #7, just trying to be helpful. Your welcome!

PRO

 

[BOBCATBEST]

Pro,

I know, just razzin you a bit.... Hope your hunts go well!!!!

 

[AZBuckSnort]

If the guy had not shot at the deer with the 22 would you have had the chance to shot it?

Maybe, as the buck had already been spotted and I was waiting for it to funnel into the open in one of two commonly used deer trails I was covering from a superior position... I've hunted this spot several times with past success.

If he let you tag it how would you tell everyone you shot a deer that someone had already injured?

A grazed buck stotting on an injured leg has some issues: when and if he healed from the wound, his possible altered mobility may have made him an easy mark for the coyotes when the snows fly. As it was my devestating, organ-destroying, fatal kill put the buck on the ground and I was fully prepared to tag the buck. Any post hunt stories would include my opinion that a .22 caliber bullet fired from longish ranges into breezy canyons isn't an ideal combination to anchor a mule deer buck. Lucky for the hunter I was there to harvest the animal so he could horn in on the kill and take the buck under the threat of a gang beating.

Would it legitimately be your kill?

Yes. Although I suppose it depends on what the definition of "first blood" is? Is first blood literally any dropplet of blood from any wound no matter how superficial, or is "first blood" the blood from a killing shot into a major organ or one that destroys major skeletal structures and produces strong vein or arterial blood loss that will lead to death?

The question is, would the wounded buck mule deer have been recovered by the initial shooter? IMO, I seriously doubt it.

 

[deserteagle500]

how do you know the caliber?




the only eagle with enough power and speed to kill and gut you with one shot

 

[WillPower]

I have read alot of threads here and never seen one from MB, then I read a few more threads after my post and saw where MB posted and CD started this thread based on that thread. So, my bad............

WP

 

[AZBuckSnort]

We had a loooong conversation over the dead buck which included his insights on deer cartridges where he explained my .270 Winchester caliber was a "piece of sh*t and everybody knows that!" all the while extolling the virtues of his .22

 

[proutdoors]

>I have read alot of threads
>here and never seen one
>from MB, then I read
>a few more threads after
>my post and saw where
>MB posted and CD started
>this thread based on that
>thread. So, my bad............
>
>WP

The forum member "Mossback is NOT Doyle!

BOBCATBEST, I got your humor, or attempt at it anyway, HAH. My hunts are all over, went great and had a blast.

PRO

 

[driftersifter]

Put one round betwen the Bucks eyes and declare its his buck alright.
Driftersifter

 

[Ropinfool]

Pro does it for him.

 

[jmcenulty]

AZBuckSnort
I asked those questions because I wanted you to see that your same questioning of "ethics" could be turned around on you. I was not there so I can not say exactly what happened, but based on what you wrote you brought up three things that seemed to be argued about alot on MM.
1) What weapon is "ethical" and gives the animal a "fair" chase?
2) If more then one person shoots a buck whose is it?
3) "Locals" vs. "non locals".
These things are even more debatable because the laws in place allow more then one choice. Which one is right? Depends on what role you are "playing".

If I was in your shoes would I have reacted the way you did? You bet, but if I was in the other guys shoes would I have reacted the way he did? Probably (like I said I have not heard his side, but chances are he probably feels just as strongly as you do only that he was right).

 

[cabinfever]

I'm curious if a game warden was called in as a mediator who would he side with. I'm guess'n he'd side with the guy that put the buck down.Who knows!This is why I don't like to hunt Utah and particularly areas that are crawling with hunters, which is pretty much everywhere.When your hunting in areas where you see more hunters than you do deer, your just begg'n for a situation like the one described in this post.

Mike

 

[AZBuckSnort]

Ok, so you're saying you would threaten to beat a man over a dead buck, and that you would condone the brandishing of weapons and having your hunting buddies draw down on the fellow hunter you were debating over the kill with?

I just don't get that! I feel as soon as you start raising your voice to a shout and rain down a fuselage of profanities and intimdate with firearms you've lost the argument completely. I least that's what I learned way back in debate class in school and I bet you did too.

You're honest in that you were not present and I suppose you have every right to assume I'm making the incident up or failing to explain it correctly or only presenting my side. But I really don't believe you would have reacted the same way he did, do you....really?

I have a tough time swallowing that if a skilled hunter knew his shot clearly wasn't enough to cause the death of the animal he was shooting at, and the evidence of which was lying at his feet, that he would engage in battle to keep a deer that he didn't kill?

I also fail to see the gray areas in these debates over who a shot animal belongs too. It I shot a deer in the lower leg and he limped off into the woods and a hunter in a stand or still hunting in the woods has that buck come by and he or she shoots it through the vitals and kills the deer dead...it's his or her buck, period, so long as they wanted it.

In any event, thank you for your comments and I'll take them under advisement.

 

[FamilyMan]

I did not read through all the posts, but in response to the original question, DUH, he killed it, it is his no matter how long you tracked it. Now, if he wants to say its yours, then he can let you tag it, and can probably get fined for doing so (law in most states requires you to tag an animal you kill!!).

Sure, there may be shades of gray such as an animal in the final troughs of dying that someone else shoots just seconds before it was going to die anyway as it lies on the ground, but in general the guy who kills it tags it.

I suggest your client aim more carefully next time.

Mark