Pro PISSCUTTER PLAN PLEASE???

B

bobcatbess

Guest
HEY Pro???

INSTEAD OF ####ING WITH SOMETHING THAT AIN'T BROKE!!!

I'D APPRECIATE IT IF YOU'D SCREW WITH SOMETHING THAT NEEDS WAY MORE ATTENTION THAN YOUR ELK PLAN!!!

YES ProPISSY!!!

I'M TALKING ABOUT THE GREAT UTAH PISSCUTTER HERD!!!

YOU WON'T BELIEVE ME CUZZ I'M NOT A DWR EMPLOYEE!!!

THATS O.K.!!!

JUST WONDERING IF YOU'D BE WILLING TO COWBOY UP & PUT SOME EFFORT INTO SOMETHING THAT REALLY NEEDS SOME ATTENTION???

I'M ASKING PLEASE???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
I vote for doing away with the 5 regions so I can hunt with my family. Get rid of the 96,000 cap-haven't you seen our impressive buck to doe ratios. Make the rifle season 30 days, so we have more time to pass up piss cutters. Let everyone hunt all 3 weapons for more opportunity. Give us a mid november rifle hunt to weed out the bad genes, an open all major Interstates to ATV travel.
 
JUDAS PRIEST PAUL!!!

DON'T LET Pro HEAR THEM KINDS OF OPPORTUNITY!!!

MORE JACK-ASSES ON ATV'S!!!

THATS WHAT WE NEED!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
>I vote for doing away with
>the 5 regions so I
>can hunt with my family.
>Get rid of the 96,000
>cap-haven't you seen our impressive
>buck to doe ratios. Make
>the rifle season 30 days,
>so we have more time
>to pass up piss cutters.
>Let everyone hunt all 3
>weapons for more opportunity. Give
>us a mid november rifle
>hunt to weed out the
>bad genes, an open all
>major Interstates to ATV travel.
>

Prism

Can we keep all the trail cams we find? Would blue shirts be banned? I like chute planes with a mounted rifle, would this be okay? Could the regs be expanded to have a take season on illegals?
There are many possibilities so I would be in favor of your plan on the condition some of my proposals were included.


Ransom
 
HEY TEE-TEE-K!!!

IF CSI IS ON OR THE UDWR IS SPEAKING ITS AMAZING HOW QUIET IT IS!!!

OH HE'LL CHIME BACK IN!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
When is every one going to wise up and tell the dwr what a bunch of jack arses they are. We need to put them in control of the mosguito abaitment program they could wipe them out just like they did the deer herd. It is pretty good that they can sell permits for something they dont have.
 
Pro is probably setting on an elk some where so the auction tag, or goveners elk tag holder can fly in and shoot it. He wont be around for a while because it might take a week to get the shooter here.
 
I'm sure that you guy's, with your vast management experience, (that was sarcasm in case you may have missed it) have got all kind's of great idea's; but the fact is, game biologist's go to school to do their job just like most other profession's and unless one of you has got a degree in wildlife management you really don't have a leg to stand on. You are never going to have everything, you've got the elk herd so the DWR is doing something right, and management isn't really and "exact science." And am I the only one that gets tired of having to read posts that people put up simply to be a d*ck?
 
Bess,

I don't have all the answers but definately have an opinion. i used to think the main reason for the decline was loss of habitat. I no longer believe this. It does have its effect but I don't think it is the main cause.

Where I live there are no new homes being built on winter range. Still, there are very few deer.

It just comes down to too many roads. In my area they need to shut down about 75% of them. How can a deer have a chance when roads are no farther apart than 1/2 of a mile.

There are just too many permits being issued and waaay too many
roads.
 
As long as the DWR sells 97000 tags they are in no hurry to change a thing. Except get all the regions back to a 9 day hunt, and those tags back in the N.E. and Central regions. If the tags were to go undersubscribed then maybe some of those well schooled biologists might rethink the way they mismanage the deer herd. So the way I see it if you want a change then do not buy a tag next year and get your family and buddies to do the same.
 
CSI is over, now back to reading the comics, thanks for the entertainment guys. I also got to see the ending of MNF, Favre is the man!

Bessy, did I mention I will be on the Deer Committee next year where we will be helping write the new Deer Management Plan? The current one ends December 31st 2008. Whether you wannabe biologists believe it or not, the DWR does a pretty good job with the wildlife in Utah, considering who they are dealing with (Utards) and many other obstacles like habitat loss, vegatation loss due to drought and lack of revegatation, more roads than ever, ATV's, etc.. I have ideas on what needs/should be done, but I am open to suggestions/ideas, ones that can be implemented and managed not pipedreams and fantasy. The DWR is limited by US, the hunters/arm-chair biologists, more than by all other factors combined, IMHO. No matter what plan they propose they will be assailed and ridiculed by people who have little facts to back up/support their claims, then bad-mouth those who do have facts/numbers/research to back up their claims. Go figure.

PRO
 
Pro, So if I understand your post right, is their no room for change in the current deer managment plan until after the 2008 season or can changes in say hunter numbers and unit sizes be on block for possible change for the 08 season? Just wondering if you know.
 
To put something thru for 2008 it MUST be proposed at the RAC meetings that will be held over the next few weeks. To get anything like what you are asking thru would be akin to bessy posting his next 7000 post ALL in lower case. So, I would say you have less than 1 in a billion chance of getting that thru, good luck.

PRO
 
So is the RACK the only way to get our opinions heard or are their individuals that could be wrote or emailed that would actually read it. And I'm not talking about a huge Utah bashfest letter, but some real imput that those im our hunting circle would like to see adjusted if it would help the management of the Utah deer herd.
 
You can get a hold of the DWR, anyone of the sportsmen groups( SFW, MDF, UBA, etc.) and let them know who you feel and what you think needs/should be done. The Deer Committee will be made up of people from these different groups. The RAC's are a good way to voice your opinion about proposed changes, but is not the best way to get things proposed or changed. I suggest going to teh RAC meeting in your region, and talk with the DWR guys there, and get a hold of one of the groups that will be helping draft then new Deer Management Plan. I am on the board of Directors for UBA, and I would love to hear any suggestions/ideas. Shoot me a PM if you like.

PRO
 
WELL Pro!!!

ANOTHER THING THATS ALWAYS AMAZED ME!!!

WHEN THESE PROCLAMATIONS ARE PASSED THEY ARE IN EFFECT FOR SO MANY YEARS!!!

REGARDLESS OF WHAT WINTER IMPACTS HAVE HIT OUR HERDS!!!

OF COURSE I KNOW NOTHING & EVERYBODYELSE LIKE YOURSELF & THE DWR KNOWS EVERYTHINNG!!!

HOW ABOUT WHEN CERTAIN AREAS WERE CLOSED???

THEM 1000'S OF HUNTERS SHIFTED AREAS/UNITS/REGIONS & POUNCED OTHER REGIONS THAT WERE ALREADY IN TROUBLE!!!

WTF???

I HOPE THE HELL YOU'RE MAKING "Pro"POSALS FOR THE BETTER???

DID YOU READ POST # 9???

READ IT TWO OR THREE TIMES IF YOU HAVE TOO!!!

HERES MY RECOMMENDATION Pro!!!

MAKE 2 OR 3 UNITS FAIRLY GOOD SIZED & CALLED THEM THE PISSCUTTER UNITS!!!

GROUNDPOUND WHATEVER THE HELL YOU WANT!!!

MILK ON THE LIP UNITS MIGHT ALSO FIT!!!

LET 94,000 TARDS BUY THESE TAGS EVERY FRICKEN YEAR!!!

HELL,LET THEM BUY 3 OR 4 TAGS EACH IF THEY'D LIKE???

MAKE SURE THEY HAVE 100% ACCESS SO THEY CAN RIDE THEIR FAT LAZY ASSES AROUND ON THEIR QUADS,RHINO'S,RANGERS,DIRT BIKES & TOTE GOATS & POUNCE EVERY SQUARE INCH OF THE UNITS!!!

((( OH THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE ABOVE MENTIONED!!! )))

THEN I RECOMMEND:::

THERE SHOULD BE SEVERAL TROPHY/LE UNITS!!!

THEY CAN BE SMALLER IN SIZE BUT MORE OF THEM!!!

WE DON'T WANT 94,000 TARDS IN ONE PILE LIKE THE PISSCUTTER UNITS!!!

ACCESS WOULD BE LIMITED TO WALKING ON FOOT OR RIDING YOUR PONY!!!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THEM TWO OPTIONS APPLY FOR THE PISSCUTTER UNITS!!!

THE UNITS NEED TO BE 4 POINT OR BETTER!!!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT OPTION APPLY FOR THE PISSCUTTER UNITS!!!

IF YOU'RE CAUGHT SHOOTING A SUB 4 POINT BUCK & WASTING IT THERES A MANDATORY FINE OF 50,000.00,YOU LOSE YOUR TRUCK & GUN & YOUR HUNTING RIGHTS FOR LIFE & THE PERSON THAT TURNS YOU IN GETS A PERMIT FOR THE UNIT FOR THE FOLLOWING YEAR!!!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT RULE PLEASE APPLY FOR THE PISSCUTTER HUNTS!!!

IF ANY JACK-ASS IS CAUGHT IN ANY OF THE TROPHY UNITS ON AN ATV OF ANY KIND HE'LL BE HUNG ON MAINSTREET IN ALTAMONT FOR THE WHOLE WORLD TO SEE AND IT WILL BE SHOWN WORLDWIDE ON TV!!!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT YOU MIGHT WANT TO CONSIDER THE PISSCUTTER UNITS!!!

GO AHEAD Pro!!!

COPY THIS & TAKE IT TO YOUR MEETINGS!!!

ALL THE OPPORTUNITY IN THE WORLD IS STARRING YOU IN THE FACE!!!

ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME YOU MAKE CHANGES FOR THE BETTER!!!

NOTICE:I DIDN'T LEAVE THE OPPORTUNISTS OUT OF THIS PLAN!!!

THE ONLY bobcat WONDERING WHEN THE HELL THE TRUE SPORTSMEN AND SPORTSWOMEN ARE GONNA WAKE UP & PUT THEIR FOOT DOWN???

(((MAYBE WHEN A PISSCUTTER BECOMES A TROPHY???)))



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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Bessy-
I might have missed something here, but what is your constant need to call out Pro? I realize that he has some opinions on a few things, but at least his opinion reflects a side that some can relate with. I don't always agree with him, however I can think dynamically to see his point of view at least.

I have never understood how some people think that by discrediting another by trying to make them look stupid...somehow validates his/her position. Truth? I think you make yourself look stupid.

Just my .02 cents.

"Luck is often nothing more than preparation running into opportunity.?
-Some Smart Guy
 
Whoa! I think Pro will do a good job on the mule deer committee and will be willing to listen and consider input from all sides. I don't agree with all his ideas but not everyone agrees with my view points on what needs to be done with deer management.
It important to understand that for the most part every big game manager and biologist that works for the DWR has their own ideas about whats best for mule deer management. I had a big game manager tell me that the deer counts made by CO's are usually thrown out and not even used in the post season count assessments!
I do think that for the most part every big manager and biologist could agree on what the minimum standards are to at least keeps the herds somewhat viable. The real discussion begins when you start setting up objectives. Many of them believe that we are doing just fine and are moving in the right direction and I think generally speaking we might be-- the herds are not on the endangered species list.
So,it seems to come down to what we as hunters want, that can be achieved within the circle of keeping the resource healthy. I fail to see how limiting our opportunity to hunt in order to increase the quality when we do have a tag, why would that be such a problem to the big game managers? The revenue is still there, the health of the herds are not being compromised. I just don't understand why it is such a big deal to make changes that most hunters would welcome.Certainly there will be those on both ends of the "opportunity/quality" spectrum, but from my conversations with many, many hunters, they would welcome changes that have a real impact on the quality issue i.e more and bigger bucks.
As hunters we are the "customers" that buy the tags and everything else that goes with that. The DWR will make changes if the "customer" demands it. As long as it doesn't put the resource at risk in a biological sense-- whats the big deal? Determining the appropriate number of animals that a certain area can sustain is the biologist job. Getting more accurate counts on deer numbers should perhaps be a higher priority. On certain areas the published counts and what I have observed for many years now just don't jibe. Counting deer is a difficult thing to do and perfection is impossible. But, I know that comparision from 10 years ago to right now tells me alot. In a winter range area where it was easy to see up to 1000 deer it is now difficult to see 100 deer. No winter range loss impact, increased predator control in place, NO hard winters in the past 15 years. We have to have system in place that will require appropriate action will be taken in more specific areas to help the herds recover.
Bottom line is that hunters need to be loud and clear that change is needed in an appropriate way. Make sure your voice is heard at the RAC, with the deer committee and/or sportsman organizations.
 
Thanks everyone for reminding why I don't miss Utah. I was born in Utah, graduated from high school and college in Utah. Endured many frustrating hunting seasons in Utah. The best day of my life was the day I moved out of that state and this thread quickly reminds me why I never want to move back. I now live in a state with good game management. There is hardly a month that there isn't a season open for some type of game. The quantity and quality are both very good, plus we have liberal seasons and bag limits. Life's good. Just want to let y'all know there is "better" out there if you want it bad enough. Why would I say all this...because the debate on this thread is no different than it was 20 years ago...and nothing has changed.
 
pro,

here's my input:

7 day season. This gives 2 more days without pressure of a 2nd weekend.

raise buck/doe ratio to 20/100 Isn't it currently 15/100 ?
Just by this one action you would increase quality because DWR
would be forced to lower tag numbers.
If they're worried about loss of revenue, raise the tag 5 bucks.
I'd pay 5 bucks for better quality and fewer hunters.
 
oh, 1 other thing, which i doubt will stand a chance of ever happening.
divide the areas into smaller units. use the limited entry elk boundaries so you can manage these herds on a more micro level.
thanks.
 
Since no one took my first idea serious I formulated a sure fire plan to help out PRO. This would involve huge sacrifies by the younguns here, no big deal. I actually came up with this plan earlier but no one took it serious. So that said I'll again try to help Utah out.
First step would limit the hunters next season to 55 years of age and older. This would put less pressure on the few remaining deer.
The following season push back the age of the hunters to 56 and the following year to 57 and so forth. This would allow more deer to live and reproduce. By my calculations young hunters can resume deer hunting by the year 2038.
Does this help?


Ranson
 
>yeah,
>that would definitely work.


Thank goodness, my first positive reply to my super plan. Like me you must be turning 55 next year also.


Ransom
 
jakeholla's!!!

YOU'D BETTER TOUGHEN UP!!!

I'M NOT CALLING Pro OUT!!!

I'M ASKING FOR HIS HELP FOR THE NEW DEER PLANS!!!

I'VE EVEN ASKED HIM "PLEASE"!!!

IT WILL TAKE MAJOR CHANGES!!!

AS MAJOR AS overton's BATTLE PLAN???

LETS SEE,BY 2038 I''L BE 126 YEARS YOUNG!!!

HUNTING SHOULD BE BETTER BY THEN!!!

AGAIN I'M NOT THRASHING OR BASHING Pro!!!

WE NEED HIS HELP ON THE DEER HERD!!!

FOR RIGHT NOW WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT HIS CHANGES HE WANTS ON THE LE ELK UNITS!!!

THE DEER HERD IS WHERE WE NEED BIG/QUICK CHANGES!!!

IF YOU CAN'T HANDLE WHAT I'VE POSTED YOU MIGHT OUGHT TO JOIN THE PISSCUTTERS ANNONYMIS CLUB!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Bobcat

Thanks! I'm taking your reply as an endorsement of my terrific plan. When situations are dire, extreme solutions are in order or something like that.
My favorite part of my master plan is that next year by complete coincidence I'm turning 55.


Ransom
 
overton!!!

YES!!!

ITS A THUMBS UP FROM ME!!!

TO BAD NOBODY SEEN OR THEY WERE TOO ARROGANT TO SEE THE SITUATION COMMING!!!

ANY BENEFITS FOR SOMEBODY 96???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
As has been mentioned in the past, these should be some of the recommendations for the Wapiti LE Units:

1) Reduce the length of the Any Weapon hunt!
2) Delay the start of the Any Weapon hunt until late September!
3) Issue fewer LE tags for the Any Weapon hunt!
4) Offer more opportunity/LE tags for primitive weapons during the beginning, middle, and latter part of September!
5) Provide a higher percentage of tags for residents (I'm not a resident of Utah).
6) Provide a certain number of LE tags for adolescent and teenage hunters, so they can experience the hunt of a lifetime with family members, while that is still a possibility.

At the end of the day, each of us should be grateful that we will have the opportunity to hunt these magnificent animals, regardless of the weapon that we choose, but changes will need to be made in order to improve opportunity for the younger generation, and to respectfully avoid interference with the habitual routine of the elk.

IMHO, the noisemaker (Any Weapon) rut hunt will eventually force the elk to evolve and either ultimately change the timing of the rut, or force them into dormancy from a bugling perspective. I've hunted elk in states outside of Utah, and within Utah, and the elk seem to be much more vocal in Utah, which could ultimately change in the near term.

Just my $.02, but from everything that I can tell, the proposals which are being mentioned have the potential to benefit the hunter and the hunted.

Cheers,

Weatherby
 
Weatherby

Could the 55 and older aspect be woven into your plan? If so I'll support your elk plan.


Ransom
 
55 would allow for way too many hunters still, in order for any real change the age needs to be bumped to 56, then an increase every year thereafter. All those 55 and under are SOL. Sacrifices must be made by the MANY so that the few can benefit, otherwise the many are just being selfish! I WILL recommend this in the coming months, thanks for the insight and suggestions.

PRO
 
Personally I think the plan sucks!
Will develope new plan in the coming weeks for presentation to MM for consideration.


Ransom
 
HEY Pro!!!

DOES THIS MEAN I'D BE SIL???

AND ARE YOU GONNA USE ANY OF MY RECOMMENDATIONS???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
Yes! I am going to push to have the bulk of the state turned into LE units and give out no more than 5000 tags statewide. Screw the opportunists, they can buy a playstation and hunt from their lazy-boys! What do you think? Maybe issue a few hundred spike tags, just to quite the masses somewhat.

PRO
 
I personally also like the idea of providing benefits for the +55. My father is a resident of Utah (57 years of age) with 13 points for elk, and who knows when he'll draw! He may enter into the next life, prior to drawing one of these coveted tags. The older generation should also be given opportunity, but in all sincerity, I'm more concerned about the younger generation, as without hunting opportunities that will hook them for life, this way of life may greatly diminish in the near term. In my opinion, that would be a very sad day!

Regards,

Weatherby
 
EASY Pro!!!

I CAN TELL YOU DIDN'T READ MY ENTIRE POST!!!

I RECOMMEND YOU GET THE 2 PISSCUTTER/OPPORTUNIST UNITS STARTED TOO!!!

NO!!!

WE ARE NOT GONNA SCREW THE OPPORTUNISTS!!!

BACK TO THE FRICKEN SPIKE TAGS???

AREN'T THE BIG BOYS THAT GET BIG SOME WHAT OF DINKS WHN THEY'RE YOUNG???

LETS SAY YOU BOUGHT YOUR OWN 50 HEAD OF MOO COWS Pro!!!

YOUR OBJECT WAS TO EXPAND THE HERD & POSSIBLY AND EVENTUALLY GET TO A HERD OF 200 IN SIZE!!!

BUT YOU DECIDE TO KNOCK EVERYONE OF THE YEARLINGS IN THE HEAD EVERY YEAR!!!

YOU RUN THIS HERD THE SAME WAY FOR 8 YEARS AND STILL ONLY HAVE 50 HEAD!!!

WTF???

WTF Pro???

JFP WTF Pro???

CAN YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING Pro???

WE NEED SOME REAL HELP Pro!!!

I KNOW YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD WORK & WHAT WON'T!!!

I NEVER EVER SAID PISS ON THE OPPORTUNISTS!!!

BUT I DON'T THINK THEY SHOULD BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO DESTROY UNITS EITHER!!!

IT AIN'T THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT!!!





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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
DID CSI COME ON AGAIN???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
oops,
I guess I didn't understand this thread.
Does pro want serious suggestions and recommendations?
Or are we just having fun here.
Mine are for real.
Why can't we bust up these areas into smaller units?
Manpower problems in counting deer or what?
 
?Whether you wannabe biologists believe it or not, the DWR does a pretty good job with the wildlife in Utah?

And what does that make you PRO! As far as I can tell, all we have is another mini-moss on the ?Deer board? Just what the State needs, more special interest groups insuring they make money & the rest of us are screwed.

Fess up PRO; do you really represent the majority of hunters in Utah or just some high profile money machine?

I completely agree, let the professional biologists & land management folks do their jobs & keep the special interest groups at bay!

Ain?t going to happen! Until, the UDWR looses control of their budget. They should be budgeted out of the general fund and not be beholding to tag revenue or special interest groups.

Crap! At least I can sleep better knowing that PRO has our interests at heart. LOLOLOL!!!!

RUS
 
Pro said:

"CSI is over, now back to reading the comics, thanks for the entertainment guys. I also got to see the ending of MNF, Favre is the man!"
"Whether you wannabe biologists believe it or not, the DWR does a pretty good job with the wildlife in Utah, considering who they are dealing with (Utards)"

"I have ideas on what needs/should be done, but I am open to suggestions/ideas, ones that can be implemented and managed not pipedreams and fantasy."



I am sure you will be open to suggestions with jackass comments
like that. Better that all of us "Utards" keep our suggetions to
ourselves and leave the management plan to you.
 
>oops,
>I guess I didn't understand this
>thread.
>Does pro want serious suggestions and
>recommendations?
>Or are we just having fun
>here.
>Mine are for real.
>Why can't we bust up these
>areas into smaller units?
>Manpower problems in counting deer or
>what?

This is serious thread. What led you to believe otherwise?
That said I've completed more of my famous calculations for MM members. Utah being 84,904 sq. miles with 82,168 sq. miles being land area divide the number of acres by the total number of hunters and presto you have the net acres of land for each hunter. Hunters that are over 55 would of course get the prime areas in these calculations because that is how new math works.
Middle age hunters the average areas and the youngest the salt flats. This seems totaly fair to me.
By the way being that I'm an exdemocrat I have pork to give out to those over 55 but have children or grand children. These kids would of course be allowed to hunt the prime areas. Can anyone over 55 find fault with my math? Pro is excluded from this plan as he has a stupid competing plan.


Ransom
 
EASY RUS!!!

YOU RUN THE WARDEN OFF!!!

I DON'T WANT YOU RUNNING Pro OFF!!!

HE'S GOT WORK TO DO!!!

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
I thought this thread was a joke, but if you all want to get serious, lets do it. Bess wrote: "LETS SAY YOU BOUGHT YOUR OWN 50 HEAD OF MOO COWS Pro!!!

YOUR OBJECT WAS TO EXPAND THE HERD & POSSIBLY AND EVENTUALLY GET TO A HERD OF 200 IN SIZE!!!

BUT YOU DECIDE TO KNOCK EVERYONE OF THE YEARLINGS IN THE HEAD EVERY YEAR!!!

YOU RUN THIS HERD THE SAME WAY FOR 8 YEARS AND STILL ONLY HAVE 50 HEAD!!!"

Being as I grew up on a ranch, this is a perfect analogy to use. If I bought 50 cows and my object was to expand the herd to 200, I would need 2 maybe 3 bulls at MOST. So after the first fall I would KILL ALL the yearling bulls/steers(sell to the feedlots) and keep the heifers. I would NEVER need more than a 5/100 bull/cow ratio to keep the herd healthy and at objective. Any more than 5 bulls per 100 head would be a WASTE and be of NO benefit to the herd. After 4-5 years I would be at objective and I would have to start culling out cows as well as keeping my ratio in balance. The ONLY reason I would have to keep more than 10 bulls for a herd of 200 head of cattle is for eye appeal and perhaps to show at the county fair, but the 'extra' bulls would have NO value to the herd for health and/or overall numbers.

Deer are the same way, on EVERY deer herd I know of, there are enough bucks to breed the does, in fact from the breeding standpoint there are 'excess' bucks. These excess bucks are strictly there for hunters, not for herd health, and MOST certainly NOT for higher deer numbers.

Now if you want to say that higher buck/doe ratios are 'desired' so as to improve your odds of taking a mature buck, then I can agree with you. I would say that in some areas buck/doe ratios of 20/100 would be desirable. I got a suggestion thru an e-mail today about maybe taking a few 'pilot' areas, similar to I400 for elk, and making them smaller easier to manage sub-units that could be managed for a little higher quality of deer harvest than on the general season areas, yet not as hard to draw as a LE tag.

Antler restrictions have NOT proven effective anywhere they have been implemented. I am not in favor of trying a practice that has proven NOT to work again.

I love how some of you seem hell-bent on making this personal and call into question my character and motives, fine, go for it if it makes you feel better. IF you are serious and desire to help with real/valid suggestions, I will gladly take them to heart and bring some of the better ideas to the committee.

No BESSY, CSI is not on, I goy hung up at work and just got home. And it will take more than Russell to run me off.

PRO
 
Right next to my name and number of posts are some icons, the one shaped like an envelope is for PM's, click on it and type away.

PRO
 
Pro!!!

YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO ME AGAIN!!!

I SAID:"KNOCK ALL YEARLINGS IN THE HEAD"!!!

NOT JUST THE MALE'S OF THE SPECIES!!!

THEY KEEP HAMMERING DOES & IT IS A BUNCH OF BULL CRAPPY!!!

IF YOU THINK ME WANTING YOU TO STEP UP TO THE PLATE LIKE YOU'RE WANTING TO DO IS QUESTIONING YOUR CHARACTER YOU ARE VERY WRONG!!!

WE NEED YOU TO IMPROVE THE DEER HERD Pro!!!

GIVE EVERYBODY OPPORTUNITY!!!

BUT WHEN THE TROPHY UNITS GET GOOD,THIS DOESN'T MEAN ITS TIME FOR THE OPPORTUNISTS TO JUMP IN AND DESTROY THEM!!!

I'M READY FOR CHANGE!!!

BUT CHANGE FOR THE BETTER QUALITY OF COURSE!!!

THIS DEER JOB IS GONNA KEEP YOU SO BUSY YOU WON'T HAVE TIME TO SCREW WITH THE ELK PLANS!!!

SO TELL ME Pro???

DO YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO TAKE A PISSCUTTER???

I KNOW OTHERS DO BUT I'M ASKING YOU Pro???

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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
>I thought this thread was a
>joke, but if you all
>want to get serious, lets
>do it. Bess wrote: "LETS
>SAY YOU BOUGHT YOUR OWN
>50 HEAD OF MOO COWS
>Pro!!!
>
>YOUR OBJECT WAS TO EXPAND THE
>HERD & POSSIBLY AND EVENTUALLY
>GET TO A HERD OF
>200 IN SIZE!!!
>
>BUT YOU DECIDE TO KNOCK EVERYONE
>OF THE YEARLINGS IN THE
>HEAD EVERY YEAR!!!
>
>YOU RUN THIS HERD THE SAME
>WAY FOR 8 YEARS AND
>STILL ONLY HAVE 50 HEAD!!!"
>
>
>Being as I grew up on
>a ranch, this is a
>perfect analogy to use. If
>I bought 50 cows and
>my object was to expand
>the herd to 200, I
>would need 2 maybe 3
>bulls at MOST. So after
>the first fall I would
>KILL ALL the yearling bulls/steers(sell
>to the feedlots) and keep
>the heifers. I would NEVER
>need more than a 5/100
>bull/cow ratio to keep the
>herd healthy and at objective.
>Any more than 5 bulls
>per 100 head would be
>a WASTE and be of
>NO benefit to the herd.
>After 4-5 years I would
>be at objective and I
>would have to start culling
>out cows as well as
>keeping my ratio in balance.
>The ONLY reason I would
>have to keep more than
>10 bulls for a herd
>of 200 head of cattle
>is for eye appeal and
>perhaps to show at the
>county fair, but the 'extra'
>bulls would have NO value
>to the herd for health
>and/or overall numbers.
>
>Deer are the same way, on
>EVERY deer herd I know
>of, there are enough bucks
>to breed the does, in
>fact from the breeding standpoint
>there are 'excess' bucks. These
>excess bucks are strictly there
>for hunters, not for herd
>health, and MOST certainly NOT
>for higher deer numbers.
>
>Now if you want to say
>that higher buck/doe ratios are
>'desired' so as to improve
>your odds of taking a
>mature buck, then I can
>agree with you. I would
>say that in some areas
>buck/doe ratios of 20/100 would
>be desirable. I got a
>suggestion thru an e-mail today
>about maybe taking a few
>'pilot' areas, similar to I400
>for elk, and making them
>smaller easier to manage sub-units
>that could be managed for
>a little higher quality of
>deer harvest than on the
>general season areas, yet not
>as hard to draw as
>a LE tag.
>
>Antler restrictions have NOT proven effective
>anywhere they have been implemented.
>I am not in favor
>of trying a practice that
>has proven NOT to work
>again.
>
>I love how some of you
>seem hell-bent on making this
>personal and call into question
>my character and motives, fine,
>go for it if it
>makes you feel better. IF
>you are serious and desire
>to help with real/valid suggestions,
>I will gladly take them
>to heart and bring some
>of the better ideas to
>the committee.
>
>No BESSY, CSI is not on,
>I goy hung up at
>work and just got home.
>And it will take more
>than Russell to run me
>off.
>
>PRO

PRo

I'm with you on this again. Raising beef bulls to hunt would greatly expand our hunting options. I commend you for coming up with this new revolutionary plan. Would the 55 rule still need to be utilized?
Don't worry about RUS, he probably got chewed out by his boss again.


Ransom
 
HEY Pro!!!

THAT LAST PARAGRAPH???

WELL LET ME TELL YOU!!!

RUS RUN THAT WARDEN OFF IN A NEW YORK SECOND!!!

HASN'T BEEN BACK SINCE!!!

EVER SINCE RUS POACHED THAT EGG!!!

WELL HE JUST DON'T MUCH CARE FOR WARDENS SO I WOULDN'T PISS HIM OFF!!!

469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
No bessy, I have no desire to take a pisscutter, but this is NOT about me. I haven't taken a pisscutter deer in over twenty years, and I haven't taken a deer since 2001, as I haven't been able to get into bow range of a buck I feel worthy of my tag. I have however seen MANY that are worthy that I could have taken with a rifle/muzzy, but it is not all about the kill for me when I archery deer hunt.

I am NOT accussing you bessy of assailing my character, I am talking about those who bring up my motives and/or reasons for being involved, people like your buddy Rus.

Doe tags are only issued to keep herd numbers at carrying capacity and for depredation reasons. The DWR does NOT issue doe tags for revenue purposes.

Whether I and/or you like it, there are MORE deer hunters who "just want to hunt" deer and are NOT overly concerned about the size of the deers antlers. Therefore we MUST manage the overwhelming majority of the deer to THIS group of hunters. I see know other reasonable option. The question is how can we accomadate BOTH type of hunters?

PRO
 
I work for the same employer as RUS, I know who/what I am dealing with. I will NOT be losing any sleep from fear of the mighty RUS.

PRO
 
PRO,

Utah deer need to be managed to an age objective and piss on this buck to doe stuff.

Tag cuts must be implemented. The habitat argument is getting old and the results are less than impresive.

You cannot compare deer to moo cows. While a beef of 1.5 to 2 years old is worth the most at market. 2 and 3 points are not desireable to most hunters. That is the difference.

PRO has a special interest. I am not trying to be smart assed or question PRO"S character, but he is an archery guy, and his interests lie in that arena. While he may be a Mini-Moss, he likes "primitive" weapon hunts. That is fine, but the largest percentage of hunters hunt with a rifle.

I hope you can do something positive PRO. I am leaving for Colorado. Something tells me my Utard hunting days are about over. Hopefully I can go enjoy a quality deer hunt where deer management is important. Kind of like our great elk herd here.

I know I would push for tag reductions to start, but that will never happen.
 
PRO, you missed the point as usual. As I've said before, I have no intention of running anyone off. That's just one of BCB's pipe dreams.

Now to the point of my post; Do you really believe the professionals at DWR need your input. "Wannabe biologists" your words not mine. My problem with the whole game management plan in Utah is that it's not about game management, it's about revenue generation. All we need is "professional" hunters providing input to the game management plans. What really needs to happen is to remove the revenue lust from the DWR & let them focus on game management. What's wrong with them submitting budgets to the legislature and receiving funding just like any other state department. Their biggest problem would be they probably couldn't afford to drive $40,000.00 Ford diesel pickups. I'm very serious when I say " high dollar guide outfits" have NO busniess speaking for the average hunter in Utah.

RUS
 
Pro,

Thanks for getting involved and trying to help! This is a complex issue for sure:
Give less opportunity and kids will not become hunters and it will eventually go away.
Give more opportunity and we may not have any animals to hunt.

I am glad that you will get out there and work for improvement! I for one appreciate it and have confidence in your ability and your knowledge.

Too bad we all do not get off the keyboard and work like you are.

Thanks Pro!

Bowhunt
 
ktc wrote: "PRO has a special interest. I am not trying to be smart assed or question PRO"S character, but he is an archery guy, and his interests lie in that arena. While he may be a Mini-Moss, he likes "primitive" weapon hunts. That is fine, but the largest percentage of hunters hunt with a rifle."

You are 100% correct, I am an archery guy, hense I will be representing archers on the committee, there will be plenty of rifle guys there looking out for you guys, no need to worry about that. Truth is though, primitive weapons HAVE proven to be effective at allowing for tags to NOT be reduced yet harvest numbers to be reduced. Are we interested in what is best for the deer or for ownselves?

Age objectives help deer numbers how? In order to get older bucks in the mix, more bucks MUST be in the herd, which means FEWER does, which means fewer fawns, which means fewer bucks recruited into the herd each year, which means fewer bucks can be killed each year, which means fewer tags can be issued each year, which means fewer hunters hunting deer each year, which means a smaller voice in game amangement, which means a bleak future for today's hunters and tomorrow's hunters.

PRO
 
I SAY WE MOVE THE ARCHERY DEER HUNT TO OCTOBER 20TH & MAKE IT A 7 DAY HUNT!!!

469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
>PRO, you missed the point as
>usual. As I've said before,
>I have no intention of
>running anyone off. That's just
>one of BCB's pipe dreams.
>
>
>Now to the point of my
>post; Do you really believe
>the professionals at DWR need
>your input. "Wannabe biologists" your
>words not mine. My problem
>with the whole game management
>plan in Utah is that
>it's not about game management,
>it's about revenue generation. All
>we need is "professional" hunters
>providing input to the game
>management plans. What really needs
>to happen is to remove
>the revenue lust from the
>DWR & let them focus
>on game management. What's wrong
>with them submitting budgets to
>the legislature and receiving funding
>just like any other state
>department. Their biggest problem would
>be they probably couldn't afford
>to drive $40,000.00 Ford diesel
>pickups. I'm very serious when
>I say " high dollar
>guide outfits" have NO busniess
>speaking for the average hunter
>in Utah.
>
>RUS

Yes RUS, the DWR 'needs' my input, and yours and every other concerned hunters. Yes, because the DWR is mandated by state LAW to manage to the directives drom the Wildlife Board that gets recommendations from the DWR AND the RAC boards AND the general public(atleast those who SHOW UP!). The DWR sets up committees to get input from different segments of the hunting populus, UBA has been INVITED to be on these committees by the DWR.

Your last sentence is puzzling, please explain it to me. Are you implying the outfitters are what is driving the state to go to a 9 day hunt and NOT manage the overwhelming majority of our deer for quality? Do you know how many 'outfitters' sit on these committees? I am aware of NONE! Please explain!

PRO
 
You are assuming that all habitat is at carrying capacity.
More bucks in the herd does not mean fewer does in my opinion.
You can have all those does and additional bucks.
The places I hunt in Southern utah are not at carrying capacity.
 
Pro, Sorry for asking you a stupid question, but how do I retive a PM? I know your not here for tech support!
 
Go to the lobby and click on the "inbox". Glad to help, your post was full of great ideas and suggestions BTW!

PRO
 
HEY Pro!!!

I HOPE I'M NOT INTERFERING WITH CSI???

THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT THE MORE I WANT TO HUNT MULEYS IN MID AUGUST WITH A RIFLE!!!

ANY CHANCE YOU CAN RECOMMEND A COUPLE OF HIGH COUNTRY MID AUGUST RIFLE HUNTS/UNITS???

THANKS A BUNCH Pro!!!

469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 

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