I am mostly a white tail hunter, and wish to know...

P

Pahunter106

Guest
Hello all,
I hope that everyone has had a satisfying season or is in the process of having one. I really want to know the animal that I will be bowhunting in the coming years, so I am asking in no particular order the following questions.
What prequalifies a trophy mule deer buck from a juvenile?

What kind of bodyweight does a trophy get up to: pre-rut and post rut?? Is it about the same as whitetail deer?

Do Mule deer, like white tail, separate out of their bachelor groups by picking fights to determine dominance, and therefore who gets first pick of available does, or is this process different?

Do mule deer, like to hang out in a harem like a bull elk will, or do they; like the whitetail follow one estrous doe after another until he has bred all that trigger that special feeling inside of him?

There has been most recently some jargon floating around on one of the other posts about some guy from Utah shooting a Little Big buck in Colorado, and he was saying what nice "inlines" this particular deer had. What are "inlines" ? Or is this an inside joke?



I am sure that there are more questions, but this will do for now, so please educate me as to the nature of the beast..
Thank you for reading me and responding,
Scott
 
PAHunter - welcome to MM and Muley hunting! Here's my take on some of your questions.

> What
>prequalifies a trophy mule deer
>buck from a juvenile?

A "trophy" is all in what you make of it - if you like your buck and are happy about it then make it a trophy, who cares what it scores??!. Generally though a good rule of thumb to seperate "mature" bucks from "juveniles" is body size and characteristics, not necesarily antler size. Just like with whitetails, a mature muley will have several telling features (head shape, neck and front shoulder contouring etc. - there are probably several sources on line to help you judge this) However a "mature" buck from a good gene pool will measure in the high 160's to 170's and higher, depending on the quailty of the feed for the given year, quailty of the gene pool and a few other factors that are debated on here daily. For most people a true "trophy" measures somewhere around 170 or higher. To make the B&C books the buck needs to score in the high 190's and the 200 inch bucks are really the exception, though many many many will claim (and post pics on here too!) to have killed a 200 inch buck, when in fact they are inflating the score. The bottom line - be happy with the opportunities you have been given. So if you see a "juvenile" buck in the 140's - that buck is probably going to get really big when he matures so you may pass him up and let him grow depending on the area you are hunting and your needs at the time. I have a 140ish buck on my wall (never measured him - never wanted to!) and I am very happy with him. He was a "mature" buck and it was a general season public land DIY hunt. I will probably never see a bigger buck than that in that particular area, so to me, he is a trophy.
>
>
>What kind of bodyweight does
>a trophy get up to:
>pre-rut and post rut??
>Is it about the same
>as whitetail deer?

Again - "trophy" and "mature" should not be confused. A well-fed mature muley will usually weigh between 225 - 300lbs on the hoof. I have seen some really big bodied deer (250+ pounds) that might not ever score over 120, and I have seen some 180 class bucks weigh under 200 lbs. Deer over 300lbs are very rare. Pre-rut they will weigh more - you'd have to ask a bilogist how much.

>
>
>Do Mule deer, like white
>tail, separate out of their
>bachelor groups by picking fights
>to determine dominance, and therefore
>who gets first pick of
>available does, or is this
>process different?
>

It's a little different. They do live in bachelor groups but as the rut approaches, they tend to hang around together with larger groups of does. See the next question.
>
> Do mule deer, like
>to hang out in a
>harem like a bull elk
>will, or do they; like
>the whitetail follow one estrous
>doe after another until he
>has bred all that trigger
>that special feeling inside of
>him?

Well - they all trigger that special feeling inside of him. Yes a muley buck will try and spread his genes out as much as possible. However they will follow the biggest group of does possible for as long as possible, giving the appearance that the have harems like elk do. With muleys, you will see does traveling as much as bucks do during the rut.

>
>
> There has been
>most recently some jargon floating
>around on one of the
>other posts about some guy
>from Utah shooting a Little
>Big buck in Colorado, and
>he was saying what nice
>"inlines" this particular deer had.
> What are "inlines" ?
> Or is this an
>inside joke?

"Inlines" are non-typical tines that are "in-line" or parallel with the rest of the typical antler configuration as opposed to "cheaters" or "stickers" that brach out to the side or perpendicular to the regular configuration. Go to the B&C website for more info on scoring muleys.
>
>
>
>
> I am sure that
>there are more questions, but
>this will do for now,
>so please educate me as
>to the nature of the
>beast..
>
> Thank you for
>reading me and responding,
>
>
> Scott


Hope this helps!


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
Thank you for responding to my questions. I have only seen muleys hanging on the wall at Cabela's and other than the occasional dead one that I saw on the side of the road, when I was driving out west, I never knew or hazarded a guess that since they are different from whitetails in appearance, that they were much different in their regular routines.
I have read very little about the species in hunting mags and some periodicals. It seems that whitetails capture all of the headlines out here in the East, mostly because that is what we have for huntable big game. Journals like "Deer and deer hunting" , & " The Whitetail Institute", to name two, are what I see.
Are there other mags published in the west that delve into the intricate and intimate daily routines of this particular animal? I have read or heard somewhere that they like to bed close to sheer cliffs high up on a hill's side to catch the updraft of thermals during the heat of the day. So that their back is against something that cannot be used to a predator's advantage, from behind them. Most often with several does. Are they as social during other times of the year? Or just pre-rut? Post rut?
How do you as a hunter determine patterns in Buck behavior when bowhunting season comes into play? Do these animals bed in same sex areas as a general rule, and then do they meet up with other deer during the day? It seems that someone could spend a lifetime learning the differences in behaviors, between these two species, doesn't it?
The areas that these animals get to call habitat is so much more vast than out here in the East, so that seeing a regular pattern of deer behavior is more based on terrain and food plots, right? Or is it possible to identify deer that generally inhabit the same range in the west, as we do often see here in the East? Do you guys go spotting for deer? This may seem a stupid question. But how do you determine that one area holds more deer in it than another basin or range?
We are so populated, & that there are so many roads, and so many more people, I think that our style of hunting must seem foreign to any who live west of the Mississippi. Have you ever put on a drive to move deer in front of hunting buddies, or because the terrain issues being so vast would that be not as predictable to you, as it is to us?
Before the PA Game Commission started to manage our state herd, we were told that we as hunter's in our state were 95% effective in hunting and harvesting 1st and 1 and 1/2 year old bucks, which is why when growing up it was so hard to even hear of anyone killing a mature buck, unless they went out of state. We have had the Game commission managing our herd for the past 5 years and we are now starting to see on a more regular basis, deer that will get headgear higher than 6 points ( total) consistently, though it seems to many that the Game Commission is hell bent on eliminating the amount of deer that can successfully live on an acre of ground. Perhaps our herd was way out of balance, buck to doe, which is why rattling seldom worked; but I kid you not when I grew up hunting it was not uncommon to see 65 - 100 deer a day when everyone was in the woods, the first few days of Buck season.
My last Rifle hunt here, two years ago, I saw 7 deer for the season. And I am not sure if some of those were not the same deer. Here before our season opens in DuBois, PA you cannot get near the public rifle range anytime one week before the season opener, without parking your car , shutting it off and standing in line waiting to get a bench at a 12 lane 100 yard range. Number 147 please!
This is why there is such a hostile feeling to the state in terms of their management practices. They liberally issue doe tags as if they were candy on "Trick or Treat", but conversely, every hunter here in our state, seems to think that their own harvesting of the does in their area has little impact into why they are not seeing more deer of trophy size in their area, instead of less, for the following year.
We get so many people that we call "Flatlanders" from Pittsburgh, & Philly, New Jersey, and Maryland; and our undevelopped land is pretty cheap. I know that your mountains are bigger, but Appalachia is as close to mountainous as we get out here, until you start talking about the Rockies and elevations in the 10's of 1000's, that we hav eno other form of reference.
QDMA is getting a hand into private landowner's who post their land and it seems everyone is posting their land. Hunting leases are popular, but I don't have an extra $250.00/ year to go for a lease. I would rather spend my money on a western hunt, at ten times the price because the odds of a trophy are still greater out west, than they are here. Trophy out here is 8 point 140 class or higher. I gave up hunting the rifle sesaon because of overcrowding in the deer woods, for two few of deer. Who wants to be responsible for ruining someone else's hunt, by walking through someone's shooting lane, all the time getting into or out of the woods. We hunt out of trees that give us vantage over bigger areas of ground. Any way, thanks for reading this and taking your time.
I appreciate the help and information I am getting from you guys.
Scott
 

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