Nonres license fees

[jims]

I don't know about others but it's that time of year when my bank account just about hits the $0.00 mark! It's getting to the point I'm starting to wonder where the sport of hunting is heading in the Western US?

NM and Colo nonres have just sent in a chunk of their annual salary to apply for big game and Nevada is next. It costs over $200/year to apply for all species in NV. Multiply that by 10 years and that is a whopping $2,000! I don't know about you but I can do a lot with $2k! It's getting the point in most Western states that the price for applying is pushing many guys out of the draws....a pretty sad deal!

If you want to consider budging to apply for NV draws...here goes: $220/12 months = around $18/month to save up and apply...no guarantee of ever drawing a tag and fees may go up in the next few years! If it takes 20 years of applying @ $220/year to draw a tag that is around $4,400. That doesn't include the price of the tag! What if I want to apply my son or other family members for nonres tags...holy smokes!

Lets take it to the next step and look at applying in 4 different states. If it comes to the point that it costs $220/year in 4 different states to apply that comes to $880/year in application costs. Multiply that by 20 years (which it often takes to draw some tags) and that's $17,600 to apply in 4 states for 20 years. That often doesn't guarantee 1 tag nor include the price of a tag once drawn!

It may not currently cost $220/year to apply in 4 states but potentially that could happen! If I told my wife I was spending over $17,000 to apply in 4 states for 20 years me and my hunting stuff would be out the door!

I thought I would give everyone something to consider in regard to where our sport is going! It's no wonder young hunters are loosing interest in the great sport of hunting!

 

[llamapacker]

Jims,
I'm not sure if your post is a joke, or just gallows humor. You actually picked the cheapest two states, from what I see. I just sent over $12K to WY to apply for the wife and I. Screw the kids, that would double the cost.
Add to that about $2500 a piece in CO, which doesn't include half the species, and you better have a big credit limit on your card. Throw in NM, where you hardly have any chance to draw for lots of money, and the trend continues.
I do wonder how my kids will ever participate until they are old men...
Bill

 

[mntman]

Hunters say it is going to be a rich mans sport in the future. Well I think the future arrived about 10 years ago... Sucks when I have to have two different investment plans, one for retirement and one for hunting trips.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"


Let me guess, you drive a 1 ton with oak trees for smoke stacks, 12" lift kit and 40" tires to pull a single place lawn mower trailer?

 

[txhunter58]

You will probably get a lot of agreement on this issue, as long as you keep it about multiple states. It is when you start talking about just one state that you get the troops riled up.

Kind of like pork barrel legislation. Everyone is against it until you start talking about the one that gives them money. If it is being paid to one's own state, then "It's a bargain, just give up a coffee a day and you can afford it so quit whining and just pay it."

NRs don't have any clout in other states, so with wildlife agencies needing money, it is easy to increase the fees on NRs whether they are application fees or tag fees. No one with any clout complains.

Bottom line: I totally agree with your assessment, but until we as a group of hunters say "enough is enough", even when it applies to our own state, it won't do any good.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)

 

[Mallards_Only]

>
>Bottom line: I totally agree
>with your assessment, but until
>we as a group of
>hunters say "enough is enough",
>even when it applies to
>our own state, it won't
>do any good.
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)
I know I've reached that point this year. Between increasing prices, changing regulations, decreasing draw odds, and point creep, I have decided to abandon or burn my accumulated points in most of the western states and use the money to plan my hunts from year to year. I will hunt Canada more and will use the money to purchase landowner tags or trespass permits rather than wasting it in state lotteries who take my money, use it to gain interest, charge me an application fee and then continue to change regulations which make it nearly impossible that I will draw before I'm too old to hunt. I'd rather buy raffle tickets from organizations who actually use the money to support game rather than subsidize a government agency who uses the money to fund their freeloader state programs.
I can't tell others what to do but I wish more people would do the same. It would be a huge eye-opener for some state agencies. In fact, if we as hunters could avoid being selfish and coordinate the mass protest by refusing to put into some of the states for a couple years, the agencies would likely be forced to re-evaluate their fees and strategies and hunters wouldn't lose their points as most states have a 3-yr rule.

 

[DnkyPunch]

Like Mallards I dropped several of my applications this year due to decreasing odds, changing point structures, higher fees, etc as it just wasn't it worth it for some of the tags I was applying for. I'm better off saving the money for a big trip somewhere than wasting it on places where I have no legit shot of ever drawing. Saves me a lot of time and hassle too.

 

[Zeke]

I think it's bordering on ridiculous how NR's are treated, including by my home State!

I'm right on the edge of dropping from several States because of price, NR quotas and no preceived advantage after decades of loyal applications. Even the State's that offer points are pushing me over the edge with price and quotas.

There are a couple prime examples of States that tried to push too much of the financial burden onto the back of the NR. Now they can't sell their tags. The quality and experience just doesn't warrant the price.

We've all heard that the tag is the cheapest part of the hunt but we've passed the tipping-point! It's the majority of the cost nowadays.

Zeke

 

[Deerlove]

It's getting harder to pick and choose where you want your $ going.

 

[Runnoft]

jims, I feel the same way you do. I've been buying deer points in Colorado and planned on doing so for another six to eight years. The increased application fee tipped me over the edge. I only have enough points for a mediocre hunt, so, today and I just decided to bail out altogether.
I've noticed many posts of guys wanting to cash in their points. I think in the next few years some of the easier to draw units will become more difficult to draw as people cash out.

 

[SPAZ]

Non-res fees are terrible. You have to either live in a state where you can hunt every year, or plan on spending some money. I gave up NV years ago, but continue in a few other states that have more realistic draw odds. As far as kids, you have to live somewhere they can hunt now. My son has had 2 great seasons in MT at 11 and 12 - he's hooked. He's got points stacking up in WY, MT, and AZ. If he wants to start elsewhere he's going to have to get a job. He's going to get a transferred archery elk permit in AZ soon though.. I've got 17 points and you can give it to a youth. He's a bowhunter and I suspect he'll owe me one for this.

Some non-residents need to realize that you can hunt elk nearly every year in some states that have great hunting. You don't need a 10 year wait and crappy odds to hunt super huge elk. You can hunt them every year still.

 

[BuzzH]

I dont think the NR TAG FEES are the problem, its the amount you have to spend to apply (point fees, non refundable hunting licenses, application fees).

I have no problem with a State like Wyoming charging the NR bonus points at current levels...IF...they had reasonable NR license fees.

I also would have no problem with Wyoming maintaining their current TAG FEES...IF they didnt charge $100 for sheep points, $75 for moose, $50 for elk, etc.

These states are wanting both high point/application fees as well as high license/tag fees.

I'm fine with one or the other, but not both.

I see Montana took a page right of the Wyoming play book this year as well with their point fees.

 

[sambo3006]

I feel the same way most of the other guys do. I sent in for my Colorado deer and elk points for one last time this year. Units like 61 and 201 are a joke now. There are guys with 18 to 20 points (translate YEARS) accumulated who will die of old age without ever having the chance to hunt one of those two units. I've burned a few points in the past on hunts that took one or two points but with the latest increase in point fees and the fact that they will keep $800 of my money for two and a half months, I'm out. I'll burn the points I have in the next couple of years and then stick to left over tags.

I'm a little more invested in Utah, as I am now up to 10 elk points. At least in Utah's hybrid draw system everyone has the chance (albeit a small one) of drawing a tag.

NRA Life Member

Leftys are the only ones in their right minds--and I ain't talkin' politics!

 

[newguy]

Sometimes I think you would be better off taking the +-$200 per state app fees and putting each of them on a roulette wheel, each would give you a 1 in 36 chance (witch is much better odds than most high end hunts) at $7200, if you win you could put the $7200 dollars toward some great private land hunt or a landowner tag.

Mark

 

[martinc]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-14 AT 10:13AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-14 AT 10:11?AM (MST)

Hunting isn't that expensive, TROPHY hunting is VERY expensive. You can get doe and cow tags for cheap. You own state is always cheap. NR general buck and bull tags are somewhat expensive but you don't have to add years of points and application fees to get one.

Now premium tags are in such demand that states can get away with soaking the non-residents. You have to seriously study odds before deciding to commit money. Most applicants without many points will never draw the best tags in Utah, Arizona, Nevada, ( at least the rifle tags ). If you start now you will probably die before you get a Wyoming sheep tag.

I believe states should have been more careful before putting in place point systems with preference points, when there is not enough tags to meet demand. Bonus points would have been better. Otherwise whole generations are screwed.

Personally I build points where I know I will a tag one day, Colorado ( knowing I will not hunt the northeast corner ), Wyoming, Arizona elk ( will get a bow tag ). For sheep and goat I take a chance on Colorado and Montana, knowing these tags will never be guaranteed.

I'm not sour, I can afford some outfitted hunts in Canada and I have decent hunting at home. It helps when you don't have to get the biggest of the baddest to be a happy hunter. So I leave out Utah ( too many auction tags to my liking ), Nevada ( may get an easy to draw archery deer tag one day ), and now probably New Mexico, since they didn't handle the sheep fiasco very well. I'll spend my money where I feel welcome.

 

[Califelkslayer]

Colorado is currently on my $h!t list. Fee increases regularly!! They changed the % of tags to NRs AFTER I was in for 10 years. And the "2 years no app, you lose your points" is my current pain in the a$$.

I regulary put myself, wife and son in for elk, and myself in for deer. The wife and son already have the points needed for the hunt I usually take them on every 2-3 years. Based on other committments the last couple of years I still have to apply them every other year at the minimum until our schedules open up.

Overall there are a few states I don't regularly apply for (NM-ID-Ore) but the rest get my money every year.

I'm 2 big game seasons from retiring so most of my applications are for long shot, long odds hunts now. I plan to be able to draw a quality tag or two, every year after I retire until I can't do it right anymore.

 

[martinc]

Are you sure about the 2-year thing in Colorado ? I read 10 years...

 

[adubs11]

LAST EDITED ON May-05-14 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]I agree with the posts above but I still play the point game in every state out west. I apply for 41 different hunts/points each year. I apply in WA, CO, ID, IA, KS, MT, NM, NV, OR, UT, & WY. I apply for all points or hunts that allow for ELK, MULEYS, ANTELOPE, MT. GOAT, NELSON, ROCKY, DESERT, and WHITETAIL in IA and KS. I spend about $1700 a year on those pts that I don't get back. At times there is A LOT more missing from my savings and sitting on my credit card but heres how I break down the math. I'm 34 years old, I have between 4-10 pts for all species and I know at some point before I'm physically unable to hunt I'll draw most if not all of the tags that I apply for. It basically breaks down to $41 per year/ per hunt. Add that up over on average 20 years of points (some more, most less) and I have $800-$1000 spent in pts and fee's to draw these tags along with the license cost the year I draw. If I can draw these premium tags at some point in my life (even once) and figure they cost me $2000-$4000 each adjusting for inflation then I see that as an inexpensive landowners tag for great hunts.

I do not like the $$$ spent each year and the crappy odds better than anyone else but I know time is on my side and if I apply long enough for enough species, eventually my name is going to be the one drawn and I'll have a lot of great memories...seems like a decent proposition for $141 a month. If you all want to drop out of the draws...I'm certainly not going to argue with you ;-)

adubs