The latest report from the DWR shows that the Elk population in Utah is now at 81,475. The population objective, which is what the Legislature authorizes them to manage for, is 70,965. The herds in some areas are increasing so fast they may out strip the available winter forage if we have a difficult winter. If that happens, the winter range recovery could take years and the elk numbers could crash in some areas. Should the DWR issue more antlerless elk tags and lengthen hunting seasons in those areas? What are your thoughts ?
Elk Populations In Utah
- Thread starter nebo12000
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D
DnkyPunch
Guest
Yup and they should let SFW auction them off to the highest bidders.
Robiland
Very Active Member
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We all know they are all about $$$, so why not issue ALOT more archery elk tags. I mean ALOT. Make your money, get people through the bottle neck, kill some more elk. give it 5 years and see if there is any change, I think this is a long term solution, not a fix it today solution. But by doing this, see how it goes over the next 3 years, and if the #'s are coming down little by little, then there you go. But lets not do a drastic kill all elk now. I think they could double the amount of archery tags on these units.
Zeke
Long Time Member
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- 10,604
>We all know they are all
>about $$$, so why not
>issue ALOT more archery elk
>tags. I mean ALOT.
> Make your money, get
>people through the bottle neck,
>kill some more elk. give
>it 5 years and see
>if there is any change,
> I think this is
>a long term solution, not
>a fix it today solution.
> But by
>doing this, see how it
>goes over the next 3
>years, and if the #'s
>are coming down little by
>little, then there you go.
> But lets not do
>a drastic kill all elk
>now. I think they
>could double the amount of
>archery tags on these units.
>
Agreed but we don't want to reach objective only by killing bulls. We need to kill some cows.
Zeke
>about $$$, so why not
>issue ALOT more archery elk
>tags. I mean ALOT.
> Make your money, get
>people through the bottle neck,
>kill some more elk. give
>it 5 years and see
>if there is any change,
> I think this is
>a long term solution, not
>a fix it today solution.
> But by
>doing this, see how it
>goes over the next 3
>years, and if the #'s
>are coming down little by
>little, then there you go.
> But lets not do
>a drastic kill all elk
>now. I think they
>could double the amount of
>archery tags on these units.
>
Agreed but we don't want to reach objective only by killing bulls. We need to kill some cows.
Zeke
It depends on where you want to cut the herds down, and Im not so sure the winter ranges will all be denuded if there is a big winter.
Remember there are ten times as many beef cows as there are elk in Utah, and I see those out foraging all winter in many desert areas.
So pick the right spots when you start trimming and maybe lay off the Wasatch a Fish lake areas for a while?
Remember there are ten times as many beef cows as there are elk in Utah, and I see those out foraging all winter in many desert areas.
So pick the right spots when you start trimming and maybe lay off the Wasatch a Fish lake areas for a while?
E
elkun
Guest
start with getting rid of the beef cows on winter range, then look at elk numbers,
Cam@strawberry
Very Active Member
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I wonder how accurate the models are....before we kill off a bunch of elk for populations sake, I think the models should be examined....even tho that would take much $$$ and time. In the mean time lets just raise the ceiling on the population limit!
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E
elkun
Guest
4 oo or 2oo. whats the matter you worried the gov might make you be a real rancher ,,,,??
Elkun, first off, I am not a rancher. Simply pulling cattle off ranges will simply put cattle in feed lots or private ground, both of which would cost both of us more $$$ at the grocery store. Understand how supply and demand works in regards to livestock. When the price of power, water, fertilizer, hired help, and so on increases everything increases, including feed prices. Surely you have noticed this. Farmers and ranchers, simply put, put food in the world. I tip my hat to them! I would not bite the hand that feeds me, and wise up. You can't nor will have a deer or elk tag every year to provide for your family. If I did not know better , I would accuse you of being a left loving environmentalist. Lol, wake up!
E
elkun
Guest
I am not for kicking all the livestock off, but they need to pay their fair share, not 1960 prices, and they need to shut up about the wildlife . they don't own it, they need to remember that,,, so you wake up...you have a good day.
dragonshed
Member
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- 84
If you took all the cows off public land, the world beef market would not even bat an eye, it is minimal in the grand scheme. One large feedlot from Simplot produces more beef in a year than all the public range in southern Idaho. So if the price would go up it would be a ploy, like oil futures. Although I don't agree with a lot of the BLM/FS grazing policies, and a portion of the ranchers/land owners out west feel like they are entitled to graze on public range, We need people with direct ties to the land that are using it everyday, it balances our society out.
dragonshed
Member
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- 84
And actually one could make a pretty good case that smart rotational grazing (which almost never happens sad to say) actually helps elk. Elk do a lot more grazing than browsing, I think everyone can think of a new burn that drew elk like a magnet, smart grazing can affect the range the same way.
Quite the post, having less cattle on the public land winter ranges will cause cattle prices to skyrocket? what a laugh.
elk turn grass into protein too. in case you didn't know.
I can buy 2 or 3 elk tags every year here in Wyoming, yet I could hardly ever get a tag when I lived in Nevada, interesting isn't it? that's simply put for some people.
elk turn grass into protein too. in case you didn't know.
I can buy 2 or 3 elk tags every year here in Wyoming, yet I could hardly ever get a tag when I lived in Nevada, interesting isn't it? that's simply put for some people.
deerslayer88
Active Member
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- 971
But that would mean the ranchers would be forced to drive a extra few miles to feed the cattle.
hornkiller
Long Time Member
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- 4,211
"The latest report from the DWR shows that the Elk population in Utah is now at 81,475"
I would like to know how they got this number?
Personally I think there full of #####!
I would like to know how they got this number?
Personally I think there full of #####!
Gentlemen, I do not want to side swipe a post and turn it into cattle vs. wildlife. We want and need both. That being said, I have to remind you of the importance of beef and other livestock for that matter.
Where do you think feedlots get their calves from? Feedlots buy calves from ranchers that have raised those cattle on public or private ground. So therefore understand that every calf in that lot was bought and then finished at the lot to put on your table. If the ranchers had to feed those calves from day one with $250 a ton alfalfa hay, that steak just got a lot more expensive.
As far as the grazing fee's, every rancher pays an AUM per year to run on BLM or Forest ground. These fee's are reviewed annually and have gone up significantly since the 60's.....do your research!!!
I do agree rotational grazing is a must and essential to a healthy eco system. Do you think there is a benefit to a rancher in overgrazing an allotment???? That is leaving him nothing to come back to the following year, and damaging the range. As the BLM/Forest evaluate ranges yearly, the rancher may not get to turn out the following year if damage has been done. Therefore he is cutting his own throat. Would you do that??? Does not seem likely anyone would cut their own throat.
Be careful what you wish for. If there are not livestock on the range prices in the stores WILL increase. Then everyone will turn to wildlife to feed there families....they will have to in order to survive. Then when you cannot have a tag every year and you have to buy at the store, what will you be screaming about???
I do agree that some agencies, and ranchers need to better review their usage and make sure damage does not exist, but all and all, the ranges I see look pretty good other than the drought. And yes, ranchers take significant cuts when there is a drought year, that may run for continuous years until the range is healthy again. Wildlife gets the 1st pass on this...which is fine, just reminding you of what ACTUALLY takes place.
If you want something to blame, I think you should target the wild mustangs, NOT the livestock industry!!!!
Good day!
Where do you think feedlots get their calves from? Feedlots buy calves from ranchers that have raised those cattle on public or private ground. So therefore understand that every calf in that lot was bought and then finished at the lot to put on your table. If the ranchers had to feed those calves from day one with $250 a ton alfalfa hay, that steak just got a lot more expensive.
As far as the grazing fee's, every rancher pays an AUM per year to run on BLM or Forest ground. These fee's are reviewed annually and have gone up significantly since the 60's.....do your research!!!
I do agree rotational grazing is a must and essential to a healthy eco system. Do you think there is a benefit to a rancher in overgrazing an allotment???? That is leaving him nothing to come back to the following year, and damaging the range. As the BLM/Forest evaluate ranges yearly, the rancher may not get to turn out the following year if damage has been done. Therefore he is cutting his own throat. Would you do that??? Does not seem likely anyone would cut their own throat.
Be careful what you wish for. If there are not livestock on the range prices in the stores WILL increase. Then everyone will turn to wildlife to feed there families....they will have to in order to survive. Then when you cannot have a tag every year and you have to buy at the store, what will you be screaming about???
I do agree that some agencies, and ranchers need to better review their usage and make sure damage does not exist, but all and all, the ranges I see look pretty good other than the drought. And yes, ranchers take significant cuts when there is a drought year, that may run for continuous years until the range is healthy again. Wildlife gets the 1st pass on this...which is fine, just reminding you of what ACTUALLY takes place.
If you want something to blame, I think you should target the wild mustangs, NOT the livestock industry!!!!
Good day!
E
elkun
Guest
400or200. how much is your rancher paying for a cow and calf per month on public ground? if that aint 60s prices what the hell is, how much does he pay or charge for the same on private ground. how much does he get for the hay he raises on his ground while we feed his cows all summer on public land, I don't want livestock kick off publ ic ground, I just want them to pay their share like the rest of us do , if you don't think they over graze public ground , your the one needs to do some on the ground research, come out this fall ill take you for a ride,,,,
wileywapati
Very Active Member
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Seems like we're done stockpiling bulls in Utah. 80K was the magic number we've heard for years. I remember having this debate with "THE ONLY BOBCATBESS" and KTC 10 years ago.
We're here, let hunters kill some damn bulls.
PS.
How did the sportsmen vs the Farm Bureau end for fishermen and public water users??
"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
We're here, let hunters kill some damn bulls.
PS.
How did the sportsmen vs the Farm Bureau end for fishermen and public water users??
"The future is large scale auction tags.
The majority of the tags should go up
for auction anually. It MIGHT even be
good to allow second sales of auction
tags as in outfitters purchasing tags
and then re-selling them to the public."
TRISTATE 8/17/2012
