B
bradyshawn06
Guest
I have a good family friend that drew a North Cache Early Rifle tag. I am trying to help him do some research. If anyone has any useful information it would be greatly appreciated.
Blanding_Boy
Very Active Member
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- 1,037
Heres the best help one can gjve. Unless your friend Hal would be happy with a 20% chance at a 250 bull, I would turn it back in and keep my points. Yes it really is that bad.
Todd Black
Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
Todd Black
Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
hhunter23
Active Member
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- 512
does he live in cache valley? how much time does he have to scout? if he doesnt have much time to put into the north cache than turning the tag in might be a good idea? but if he can scout a lot and learn the area he can find a good bull. it is tough, but with enough time and effort, one can find a 320-340 bull.
"Shoot Straight"
"Shoot Straight"
one_dryboot
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,043
I wouldn't have any expectations for a bull
Over 300. There are a few but if you don't know the unit it will be very tough. Any branch antlers you better shoot. It is not a good unit
Over 300. There are a few but if you don't know the unit it will be very tough. Any branch antlers you better shoot. It is not a good unit
deerslayer88
Active Member
- Messages
- 971
Any more then 2 points spent turn the tag back in. I know when I have been up there spotting in Jan and Feb the best bull I seen was small and nothing I would mount.
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
I
IHuntNUtah
Guest
Good advise has been given. I spend many days on the unit during the hunts and killing any 6 point on this unit would be lucky. They are there just few. A 320 bull, very unlikely. A 250 bull maybe. Reality is if you see a decent 5 point you should probably shoot. If you live in cache valley and could scout the unit very often or have access to private property it would better your chances but still tough. There are elk and the hunting is fun just not many good bulls, Good Luck!
hunt4sheds
Member
- Messages
- 20
There are elk on the unit and if he's looking for opportunity to hunt elk, Its there... if he's looking for a good bull (meaning over 260) chances are slim to none and most likely others will be hunting the same bulls. They are managing it for 3-4 year old bulls... they are lucky to reach a 5pt by that age. There are always a few good ones that make it through, because they're SMART... If he puts time in learning the unit and knows how to hunt elk it will increase your chances big time. As for the help, the popular places are where the majority of the elk are. Anywhere from Wood Camp to the summit at bear lake is elk country, be high glassing before light... and glass late into the evening... Good luck to your friend! All it takes is a little luck!!!
lundellhunting7
Active Member
- Messages
- 605
Give the tag back! I would say worst unit in the state
B
bradyshawn06
Guest
Thanks everyone for the input. I believe he is going to turn his tag in.
gundog2
Active Member
- Messages
- 414
This unit used to be polluted with elk, before it it became a general spike unit. By standard theory of wildlife management, this unit should not be in in decline. Shooting bucks and bulls does not affect populations. The not-so-funny thing is that the opening of general spike hunts has devastated this unit. I think cow elk rifle tags have been stable or decreasing for this unit. I don't get it.
B
bakinne
Guest
I drew one of 12 archery bull tags for this area and would appreciate any help.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,953
So?
They've shot it out?
And it's still an LE Unit?
LE Units should & Could be managed way better than this!
JFP!!!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
They've shot it out?
And it's still an LE Unit?
LE Units should & Could be managed way better than this!
JFP!!!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
smitty
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,434
LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-14 AT 10:26PM (MST)[p]Here's some insight into Utah wildlife management.
A few years ago, just like has already been stated, this unit had tons of elk, big bull, cows, spikes, calves, everywhere. It was flat out awesome to see.
For years and years growing up and riding horses all through that country, rarely would you find any elk, this was all before they went limited entry on it.
Well, the division grew a fantastic herd of elk. Guys were killing 370-410" bulls every year. It was awesome to go hike around or ride a horse and see big bulls and big herds of cows and calves.
But slowly, but surely the state started giving out spike only tags, and having late season cow hunts, then that wasn't enough so they started having an early season cow hunt during the spike only hunt. Then they started a muzzle loader hunt for spikes. All the while increasing the big bull LE tags.
Well, fast forward to today. There's very few elk left at all. No big bulls. Period. And the division has told us they manage the unit for "opportunity". And their objective for age class is a 4-5 year old bull. Also, they lump the North Cache herd numbers in with the South Cache herd numbers to generate their allotment of tags. Last I checked they allowed around 600 cow tags, and had allowed that many for a number of years. I'm not a math genius, but if you take 600 of anything out of an area year after year, after awhile, you aren't going to have anything left.
That is where we are at today. The North Cache started out bad, grew into a fantastic unit, and then due to horrible management, is back to being horrible. If you don't know what horrible means, grab a dictionary.
Now a there's a certain smarta$$ MM member who I know has a North Cache archery tag, and he's probably going to chime in with his vast knowledge of herd management and biology, and he'll try to refute what I have stated. But this is about as succinct and factual as I can get.
Don't believe me? Look up the numbers yourself.
Look what you did Bessy? You got me all fired up for no damn reason!
A few years ago, just like has already been stated, this unit had tons of elk, big bull, cows, spikes, calves, everywhere. It was flat out awesome to see.
For years and years growing up and riding horses all through that country, rarely would you find any elk, this was all before they went limited entry on it.
Well, the division grew a fantastic herd of elk. Guys were killing 370-410" bulls every year. It was awesome to go hike around or ride a horse and see big bulls and big herds of cows and calves.
But slowly, but surely the state started giving out spike only tags, and having late season cow hunts, then that wasn't enough so they started having an early season cow hunt during the spike only hunt. Then they started a muzzle loader hunt for spikes. All the while increasing the big bull LE tags.
Well, fast forward to today. There's very few elk left at all. No big bulls. Period. And the division has told us they manage the unit for "opportunity". And their objective for age class is a 4-5 year old bull. Also, they lump the North Cache herd numbers in with the South Cache herd numbers to generate their allotment of tags. Last I checked they allowed around 600 cow tags, and had allowed that many for a number of years. I'm not a math genius, but if you take 600 of anything out of an area year after year, after awhile, you aren't going to have anything left.
That is where we are at today. The North Cache started out bad, grew into a fantastic unit, and then due to horrible management, is back to being horrible. If you don't know what horrible means, grab a dictionary.
Now a there's a certain smarta$$ MM member who I know has a North Cache archery tag, and he's probably going to chime in with his vast knowledge of herd management and biology, and he'll try to refute what I have stated. But this is about as succinct and factual as I can get.
Don't believe me? Look up the numbers yourself.
Look what you did Bessy? You got me all fired up for no damn reason!
BrowningRage
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,443
From what I've heard from guys hunting this unit recently, and the above comments, even if your friend drew with "0" points, it may not even be worth the 5 year wait period before being eligible for an LE elk tag.
It doesn't seem as good as some general season areas (except they allow you to hunt the rut, which doesn't help the quality).
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
It doesn't seem as good as some general season areas (except they allow you to hunt the rut, which doesn't help the quality).
"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
B
bakinne
Guest
Thanks for making the time to reply to my question. At this point, I've purchased the tag, spent 30?40 hours planning, glassing, hiking and talking to fellow ranchers. The word on the street is there are still no signs as of yet (no scat, no tree rubbings, no wallowing, no sounds). Local bars and outfitters have plenty of deer stories but nothing on elk.
If you can offer any advice to help me look like a hero to my nine year-old son I'd REALLY appreciate it. Not only is it my hunt, but my 9 year old boy insist on going to be my good luck charm. He's looking forward to helping me gut the beast and haul him out.
Thanks to all those who resist the smart remarks and a big thanks to those who offer real info to help make our hunt a successful one.
Thanks to my blood and bone brothers,
BK
If you can offer any advice to help me look like a hero to my nine year-old son I'd REALLY appreciate it. Not only is it my hunt, but my 9 year old boy insist on going to be my good luck charm. He's looking forward to helping me gut the beast and haul him out.
Thanks to all those who resist the smart remarks and a big thanks to those who offer real info to help make our hunt a successful one.
Thanks to my blood and bone brothers,
BK
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 36,953
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-14
>AT 10:26?PM (MST)
>
>Here's some insight into Utah wildlife
>management.
>
>A few years ago, just like
>has already been stated, this
>unit had tons of elk,
>big bull, cows, spikes, calves,
>everywhere. It was flat out
>awesome to see.
>
>For years and years growing up
>and riding horses all through
>that country, rarely would you
>find any elk, this was
>all before they went limited
>entry on it.
>
>Well, the division grew a fantastic
>herd of elk. Guys were
>killing 370-410" bulls every year.
>It was awesome to go
>hike around or ride a
>horse and see big bulls
>and big herds of cows
>and calves.
>
>But slowly, but surely the state
>started giving out spike only
>tags, and having late season
>cow hunts, then that wasn't
>enough so they started having
>an early season cow hunt
>during the spike only hunt.
>Then they started a muzzle
>loader hunt for spikes. All
>the while increasing the big
>bull LE tags.
>
>Well, fast forward to today. There's
>very few elk left at
>all. No big bulls. Period.
>And the division has told
>us they manage the unit
>for "opportunity". And their objective
>for age class is a
>4-5 year old bull. Also,
>they lump the North Cache
>herd numbers in with the
>South Cache herd numbers to
>generate their allotment of tags.
>Last I checked they allowed
>around 600 cow tags, and
>had allowed that many for
>a number of years. I'm
>not a math genius, but
>if you take 600 of
>anything out of an area
>year after year, after awhile,
>you aren't going to have
>anything left.
>
>That is where we are at
>today. The North Cache started
>out bad, grew into a
>fantastic unit, and then due
>to horrible management, is back
>to being horrible. If you
>don't know what horrible means,
>grab a dictionary.
>
>Now a there's a certain smarta$$
>MM member who I know
>has a North Cache archery
>tag, and he's probably going
>to chime in with his
>vast knowledge of herd management
>and biology, and he'll try
>to refute what I have
>stated. But this is about
>as succinct and factual as
>I can get.
>
>Don't believe me? Look up the
>numbers yourself.
>
>Look what you did Bessy? You
>got me all fired up
>for no damn reason!
Hey smitty!
We've got an LE Elk Unit not too far away they've done the same thing to!
GREED & PISS POOR Management!
End of Discussion!
AKA "Cutting your own Throat"!
UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!
Spikes = $$$!
COWS = $$$!
BIG BULLS = $$$ until they're gone!
KILL ALL SPIKES & with in a Few years the Big Bulls are gone for good!
Then Kill all the Cows!
Just Kill them all!
JUDAS!
F'N!
PRIEST!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
>AT 10:26?PM (MST)
>
>Here's some insight into Utah wildlife
>management.
>
>A few years ago, just like
>has already been stated, this
>unit had tons of elk,
>big bull, cows, spikes, calves,
>everywhere. It was flat out
>awesome to see.
>
>For years and years growing up
>and riding horses all through
>that country, rarely would you
>find any elk, this was
>all before they went limited
>entry on it.
>
>Well, the division grew a fantastic
>herd of elk. Guys were
>killing 370-410" bulls every year.
>It was awesome to go
>hike around or ride a
>horse and see big bulls
>and big herds of cows
>and calves.
>
>But slowly, but surely the state
>started giving out spike only
>tags, and having late season
>cow hunts, then that wasn't
>enough so they started having
>an early season cow hunt
>during the spike only hunt.
>Then they started a muzzle
>loader hunt for spikes. All
>the while increasing the big
>bull LE tags.
>
>Well, fast forward to today. There's
>very few elk left at
>all. No big bulls. Period.
>And the division has told
>us they manage the unit
>for "opportunity". And their objective
>for age class is a
>4-5 year old bull. Also,
>they lump the North Cache
>herd numbers in with the
>South Cache herd numbers to
>generate their allotment of tags.
>Last I checked they allowed
>around 600 cow tags, and
>had allowed that many for
>a number of years. I'm
>not a math genius, but
>if you take 600 of
>anything out of an area
>year after year, after awhile,
>you aren't going to have
>anything left.
>
>That is where we are at
>today. The North Cache started
>out bad, grew into a
>fantastic unit, and then due
>to horrible management, is back
>to being horrible. If you
>don't know what horrible means,
>grab a dictionary.
>
>Now a there's a certain smarta$$
>MM member who I know
>has a North Cache archery
>tag, and he's probably going
>to chime in with his
>vast knowledge of herd management
>and biology, and he'll try
>to refute what I have
>stated. But this is about
>as succinct and factual as
>I can get.
>
>Don't believe me? Look up the
>numbers yourself.
>
>Look what you did Bessy? You
>got me all fired up
>for no damn reason!
Hey smitty!
We've got an LE Elk Unit not too far away they've done the same thing to!
GREED & PISS POOR Management!
End of Discussion!
AKA "Cutting your own Throat"!
UN-F'N-BELIEVABLE!
Spikes = $$$!
COWS = $$$!
BIG BULLS = $$$ until they're gone!
KILL ALL SPIKES & with in a Few years the Big Bulls are gone for good!
Then Kill all the Cows!
Just Kill them all!
JUDAS!
F'N!
PRIEST!
[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
I have hunted this unit for 20 years and I can not agree more with what SMITTY said. He is spot on!
lucky for me I drew the tag right at the tail end of it's hay day and scored on a 370 class bull. May have been one of the last "big bulls" taken off of the unit.
I helped a good friend of mine on this unit last year, we hunted every day of the hunt and hunted hard, we only turned up 3 bulls that would have went over 300" and they were not much over 300. He ended up with a pot full of paper.
lucky for me I drew the tag right at the tail end of it's hay day and scored on a 370 class bull. May have been one of the last "big bulls" taken off of the unit.
I helped a good friend of mine on this unit last year, we hunted every day of the hunt and hunted hard, we only turned up 3 bulls that would have went over 300" and they were not much over 300. He ended up with a pot full of paper.
B
bakinne
Guest
Thanks for your time and honest feedback.
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,433
There are 2 other LE units that I know of that they did get rid of all the Spike bull options and those units are doing just fine for 320--370 bulls....bow/rifle/muzzy weapons....(Diamond Mtn & 3-Corners)
Maybe reach out and put some $$$ up so that $FW/huntin50/Greg (don't ask me why we have to suck up to Cache-$FW) will get rid of the spike hunts and bring our North Cache back ??
Robb
Maybe reach out and put some $$$ up so that $FW/huntin50/Greg (don't ask me why we have to suck up to Cache-$FW) will get rid of the spike hunts and bring our North Cache back ??
Robb
Muley_73
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,781
LAST EDITED ON Aug-23-14 AT 07:57PM (MST)[p]I've spent quite a bit of time on this unit. Saw it when a decent 5 was a shooter up to where there were 400" bulls coming off the unit. It is brutal now. I saw 2 mature bull last year. Both on the opener of the the muzzy hunt one 300 class one 340 class. There are still a couple decent bulls roaming around but the overall elk numbers are way way down.
B
bakinne
Guest
Thanks for the info, It gives me some hope. I can't just quit and turn my tag back, archery season is 8 days in and 3 weeks to go. I only have 14 days to bag a freezer full of meat.
I've been all over the mountains and canyons. Right now I'm ONLY seeing and hearing moo cows. They were not there three and four weeks back.
Is it true that cows and sheep will drive the elk away?
Tony's gove is covered with cows. I've never seen so many in one place.
Swan flats has sheep everywhere. 1500+ head
Twin Creek, sheep.
Franklin creek/valley, cows.
I really appreciate your help,
Fellow outdoorsman
I've been all over the mountains and canyons. Right now I'm ONLY seeing and hearing moo cows. They were not there three and four weeks back.
Is it true that cows and sheep will drive the elk away?
Tony's gove is covered with cows. I've never seen so many in one place.
Swan flats has sheep everywhere. 1500+ head
Twin Creek, sheep.
Franklin creek/valley, cows.
I really appreciate your help,
Fellow outdoorsman
B
bakinne
Guest
According to this forum on archery talk http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1498088
elk don't like sheep due to the dogs and sheep herder but they cohabitate with cows just fine. Any thoughts?
elk don't like sheep due to the dogs and sheep herder but they cohabitate with cows just fine. Any thoughts?
I am sure they will pass through an area that hold cattle but I haven't seen elk consistently hang around cattle. Not saying elk will move miles away, they could be in the next drainage over.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
Mntman
"Hunting is where you prove yourself"
>wah wah wah......
a certain individuals response on 8/12/2014 to anyone that commits suicide.
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID11/19864.html
There are many things that would be nice to wish for or say but then I would be just like him.
deerslayer88
Active Member
- Messages
- 971
The big herds will leave but you do have a chance of a loner here and there. I used to think the same thing until last year when I seen a few loners then I was like well guess not all of them leave but for the most part they leave the areas you are usually not going to find the elk if cows or sheep are present.
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
too many cow hunts, spike hunts, etc on the North Cache as Smitty said. I helped a cousin last year and saw a few rag horns but that was it. The North Cache borders an open bull area in ID. THe DWR want this unit to be a 3-4 yr old bull area for more opportunity, but I agree it has had poor management for a sustaining elk herd. The deer has improved slightly with lower elk numbers. This unit has only about a 30% success rate and is a LE unit.
What do you think about having the North Cache archery or muzzle load hunting only?
The DWR cut the North Cache tags, but increased the South Cache tags. Too many Cow tags on the South Cache are issued as well.
Sportsmen used to feed 200-300 elk on the Millville face for years, last couple years there were very few elk.
What do you think about having the North Cache archery or muzzle load hunting only?
The DWR cut the North Cache tags, but increased the South Cache tags. Too many Cow tags on the South Cache are issued as well.
Sportsmen used to feed 200-300 elk on the Millville face for years, last couple years there were very few elk.
