Here's a Question??

L

luvmuledeerhuntin

Guest
What should be the punishment for people that knowingly takes an animal illegally? Are the game laws not strict enough? What would be a fair and just punishment for would be poacher's? Just a question out of curiosity, I figured that since huntin season is some months away, we could expand our minds.
 
I would like to see a lot stricter fines and punishment for poaching. Loss of hunting rights for not 2-3 years. More like 50 years.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-07 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]Should be a felony - and come with all that fun stuff that accompanies felonies - ie. no more guns, no more "gun" hunting for life.

End of story, you knowingly poach once, your done for life - should apply to archers too.

Should also be a federal offense, so that the above applies EVERYWHERE!

I ain't saying send someone to prison for life, just end their ability to legally carry and hunt for life.
 
I can agree with you on that. As a Law Enforcement Officer, I feel that state game laws are not strict enough and feel that with deer populations in most states on the decline, there needs to be stiffer penalties such as Prison. Why should these people be allowed to co exist when they are knowingly breaking the laws and taking away a natural resource from our children.

I just find it funny that in my own state that most of our game laws are misdemeanors and most of the time there is no jail penalty but just a fine. To me there isnt enough of a discouragement to would be violators.
 
The laws should absolutely be stricter. I'm sure that a few of the cases of poaching are accidents, and should be handled accordingly, but also, a hunter that is worthy of being in the field carrying a gun or bow should always be sure of his/her target. But I'll second stricter laws across the board, for all violations in the outdoors. Including ATV laws. Increase fines, take away weapons, privilages, ect.
I do know that they are starting to crack down harder on those who do break the law though. I know of a case from this year, that a truck was spotted parked away from any road to retrieve a downed animal. Pictures were taken and turned into the forest service. The officer in charge of the case was pushing to have their hunting privilages taken away. And was confident that they would be taken away for 3 years, when they went to court. Just for taking a truck off the road. I say good. Maybe people will think twice if the punishment is harsh enough.
 
D13r,

I dont understand why it would matter who it is, I can totally see if something happened and it was an accident, but we all know that the law says that we must be responsible for knowing the rules of the land. Im not saying that everyone has to be perfect, but poachers are just as bad if not worst than career criminals. You always read about how poachers that have been apprehended talk about how they have killed numerous animals in the past and just take the horns of the animals and leave everything to waste. Its always a shame to animals of trophy caliber wasted for the greedines of individuals that cant play fair in the field.

I would agree that Federal charges would be a great way and that no hunter who poaches an animal be allowed to hunt in any other state. From what I have seen in people, once you get accustomed to committing crimes, they always repeat their same actions...thinking "i wont get caught again."
 
Couple things to consider. I don't think the penelty should be the same for a guy that has tons of money and ends up shooting a monster illeaglly in a closed zone or out of season as a guy who gets caught shooting a deer to feed his family.

Before you guys get all riled up think about it. The big dollar guy can afford any fines. He might think the risk of getting that monster anyway he can worth the fine and maybe getting his license taken away. He shoots the biggest horns anywhere he can find, when "he" wants, and worries about the rest later.

The guy that shoots a doe for meat better not be spending his money in some bar and crying poor me, but, maybe he was out of work from illness whatever, thought that was the thing he had to do to put something on the table... is it really the same? Should he be fined the same as a guy with lots and lots of money who doesn't give a $hit. Community service, loss of hunting prev., small fine for the hungry guy and throw the book at the mr. you caught me, i'm sorry but i really wanted that big buck, i'll pay the fine cause i'm a doctor guy. That's how i see it anyway.
 
Sageadvice:

I guess we should let the poor steal from Albertsons to feed their families too?

GIVE ME A BREAK!

I sure hope D13er was kidding . . .
 
>Sageadvice:
>
>I guess we should let the
>poor steal from Albertsons to
>feed their families too?
>
>GIVE ME A BREAK!
>
>I sure hope D13er was kidding
>. . .


hang around here a while and watch the reactions of some of your MM brothers when a famous hunting Icon is caught poaching then you'll get the joke.

JB
 
D13er - I got the joke. . . . I just saw that someone already took you serious.

I think the key to the original post is "knowingly." I don't necessarily want someone that legitimately didn't realize he was on private property to lose his privileges for life. Thats the person that should be given community service and a lesser fine.

But, anyone that knowingly poaches, regardless of income, should lose their privileges. It is a privilege and not a right to be able to hunt. Create and incentive not to break the law - regardless of income level. You put Mr. "Doctor" from sageadvice's post in the federal system with one conviction and he is before the judge a second time, well lets just say Mr. Doctor will doing cavity exams at the federal prison (and I don't mean teeth).
 
There should be extremely harsh penalties for taking trophy animals and illegal outfitting operations. Anything else, and the punishments are about right.

---------------------------------------
This is my post

I've just pissed in my pants.......and nobody can do anything about it.
 
Just to make myself clear. I live in a small mountain town surrounded by what was "once" grand central station for a very large deer herd. I'm a big ol boy, most everybody around here knows or knows of me. I have put the word out there, if i catch or hear about you, even my friends, poaching a deer, i'll turn you in personally. If you're hungry and are thinking of shooting a deer out of season, call me and i'll buy you a couple weeks groceries.

Something else about me if you don't already know, i stick up for the little guy and i don't mean size.
 
D13

LOL, I got the joke now. Yeah I know what your talking about and have seen some of the things that go on to protect the great people that are caught poaching. Its a shame really!!

I am fine about individuals who "unknowingly" make a mistake in the field and receive a minimal sentence or fine, but Old man has a point along with the rest of you. I just think that poachers that knowingly break the laws and steal not only animals and genetics away from the common individual that lives by the rules, need to be dealt with so that "would be poachers" get a message sent to them.
 
I agree with what you've said about KNOWINGLY cheating. I've taught thousands of kids in hunter ed. I know of one who shot a small elk, thinking it was a large deer. He was young, he was looking into the sun and got excited. That's a violation; it's not knowingly cheating. They did not "throw the book" at him. I was glad for that, because he was a decent kid who screwed up. (Besides whatever his folks said, I repeated the lecture about being perfect when one has a rifle, because a mistake is very costly (not meaning the fine).

I've been hunting big game for 40+ years. Approximately 20 years ago, Idaho changed the format of the hunting regs. That was done because of something I did. I shot a good-sized deer out of season...actually it would have been in season almost any place. Except, the regs were changed so that a small area wholly contained within a larger area was closed 2 weeks earlier. LOTS of people were hunting inside the area that closed earlier than the surrounding areas.

The F&G realized it was such a potential problem, they had lots of (daily) visits to the three access points to "chase" hunters away. Anyone who didn't have a deer was simply told about the change and allowed to leave. I didn't realize the change either...my responsibility, but an honest mistake. I came off the mountain, looked up the warden and showed off my large deer. He apologized all the while he wrote me a ticket. He even went to court with me and asked for the minimum sentence.

I goofed, but paid the price. I was not allowed to hunt for a year and had to pay a fine. The warden suggested the state print the new changes in YELLOW, because it help reduce the number of similar mistakes.

I'm not saying I should not have gotten a fine. I am saying it would not have been justice to not allow the judge, or the F&G, some discretion depending for what was an honest mistake....not knowingly done.

That being said, I turn in people I see shooting from roads, shooting more than one animal or people I know hunt without tags. I think knowing violations should carry real stiff fines, if they are performed on "trophy" animals. I think the guy actually trying to fee a hungry family is very rare, but I would differentiate between a doe for groceries and a large buck for the antlers. The COs I know are pretty decent guys who appreciate such differences, too.
 
You guys getting to spinning off in the wrong universe on a basic question----for someone who knows they are illegally poaching.. Federal Offense and hunting priveledges lost for LIFE in the whole United States....and there is a lot of them out there that KNOW they are doing something illegally wrong.
 
while on this subject, what is the story on Darner's last fiasco---has he been sentenced yet??
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-19-07 AT 11:52AM (MST)[p]Just a thought:

You illegally kill a deer/elk and its backpage news of your misdemeanor plea deal.

You put a puppy in a dumpster, you may be looking at a year in jail and a felony - and its all over the news - top story KSL.com.

Neither one is right, but what is the difference?
 
One word:

CASTRATION!

I know it doesn't always stop the behavior, but it will stop the behavior from repeating itself in the next generation!


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
I'm all for increasing the punishment of poachers but one problem would still exist. Are there really enough wardens in the field to actually catch these guys? Stricter laws would prevent a few more from pulling this crap but not all.

When I lived in NV there was one particular winter range we always used to poke around in every week. In five years I never saw one warden near the area.
Well I wasn't the only one who knew of this. Sure enough, two guys killed a gorgeous 28" 5x4 while it had it's nose up a does ass during Christmas week. I moved from that area so who's to say they didn't do it again.

If there's no one to catch em' then it wouldn't really matter how harsh the punishment was.
 
From what I understand is that the game animals are the states property. I don't think that a violation on one states property should carry over to the next states jurisdiction. That would make it a federal offense. Now if you really want that to happen then why shouldn't the price of out of state licenses be the same in every state? I.E. a federal license.
I have never poached a single critter in my whole life and don't intend to however lets keep this in perspective.

On another note one of you implied that an animal shot on private property without the permission of the owner is poaching?
Please explain as I thought that was a violation called tresspassing. I always felt that the punishment should fit the crime. If trophy deer are so valuable then I wonder what are you doing to enhance the trophy potential in your area. I sure wouldn't wait for the government to "cowboy up"
Driftersifter
 
There's so much welfair out there these days that nobody should be shooting game illegally. That's not a valid excuse these days!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-07 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]driftersifter, a deer is state owned, even if killed on private property. I would guess there could/should be a tresspassing ticket on top of the poaching ticket, not in place of it.

I believe that enforcement is a major part of it, so is the understaffed AG offices who do NOT see paoching as that big of a deal, and they are willing in many cases to left the dirtbags off on a plea deal. Add in the judges who know little/nothing about the ramifications of poaching, or are local JP's 'protecting' a local buddy, and the deterrants/penalties are hard to enforce.

I see tha same problem with OHV abuse, lack of officers, lack of enforcemant, lack of stiff penalties.

Until we as the public stand up united and DEMAND change, we will see this as a continuing problem(s).

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
>I believe that enforcement is a
>major part of it, so
>is the understaffed AG offices
>who do NOT see paoching
>as that big of a
>deal, and they are willing
>in many cases to left
>the dirtbags off on a
>plea deal. Add in the
>judges who know little/nothing about
>the ramifications of poaching, or
>are local JP's 'protecting' a
>local buddy, and the deterrants/penalties
>are hard to enforce.
>
>I see tha same problem with
>OHV abuse, lack of officers,
>lack of enforcemant, lack of
>stiff penalties.
>
>Until we as the public stand
>up united and DEMAND change,
>we will see this as
>a continuing problem(s).



I read all of the posts and this right here is the big issue as i see it. When average joe turns some one in for what ever violation and nothing is done about it. Average joe says the system is broke screw this. Then the next time you see some thing happen average joe does nothing.

I agree with the above statements of proutoutdoors. Joe public must stand up and be counted. Keep calling in things that you see tell the DWR gets the message, or should i say the law makers.

Kill a cat save a deer. is that ok?

rock 5150
 

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