utah wasatch cows, gone

bowhunt

bowhunt

Long Time Member
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3,191
For the last 15 years I have watched a herd of wintering elk out my front window.
This herd summers near springville utah.
I have kept a journal for the last 5 years, writing down the cow numbers.
2011 237,2012 175, 2013 163.
I had felt that the late cow hunt was not having much of an impact on this herd.
2014, different story!
Anyone with an antlered tag of any type could also get a cow tag.
Well it worked, holy crap the herd is all but gone!
I have found a total of 43 cows.
We cannot repeat this hunt.
 
They will repeat this hunt. According to the very very "intelligent" Dale Liechty and the rest of the DWR and the wonderful "model" they use. They say that unit 17a wasatch west. Which is the unit you are referring to is still over objective. Also and I quote the conversation tgat I personally had with Dale. " the SFW does not want any antlerless tags on the Wasatch unit. But due to over objective numbers the division along with the SFW reached an agreement that with a lesser number of late antlerless tags a control hunt would be acceptable until ther objective is met." End quote!
 
If anyone would like to voice their concerns. Here is the public information listed for him.

6627image.jpg
 
This Wasatch elk slaughter is the biggest bunch os BS I've
ever seen with wildlife managment in Utah................

It's making me sick!

It was such an AWESOME resource. Now, all but gone!!!!!!



4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
Pretty sad isn't it. Anyone that supports or thinks that our DWR is doing an acceptable job managing or influencing those that do make the decisions for managing our herds is a fool. I'm sure I will get the response of "you think your a biologist" again. Open your eyes idiots! They are doing a piss poor job!! Fishlake all over again... Sweet bro!
 
Wrong Goofy!

Just another Slaughter!

Not the first you've seen!

>
>This Wasatch elk slaughter is the
>biggest bunch os BS I've
>
>ever seen with wildlife managment in
>Utah................
>
>It's making me sick!
>
>It was such an AWESOME resource.
>Now, all but gone!!!!!!
>
>
>
>
4aec49a65c565954.jpg











[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
Your right Bess, I have spent a ton of time On the Parker
And Fishlake. Watched both those slaulghters too.
(IMO, The antelope 'deal' on the Plateau is STILL BS too.)

Heres the thing though,
The Wasatch elk herd can not handle another year like 2014
and remain a limited entry unit.
Unlimited anterless permits, Spike hunting, Too many mature
bull permits will be the end of this LE unit................

Heck, they might as well just make it a general any bull unit.



4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
>Just keep beating the horse guys
>it's been dead for a
>while now....
>
>https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters


Berry. I know you have had many conversations with Mr. Liechty. The reason for posting his number is hopefully people will call and voice concerns. Dale told me personally that in order to have my opinions listened to I would have to start or become a high ranking member of a special interest group. I as well as you grew up on this unit. I watched it come from nothing to a great unit and I am watching it decline to the days it was an open bull unit. I hope that people will call. Those "models" they use are horse crap,
 
Maybe I was just raised differently Vanilla, and that's why this guy rubbed me the wrong way. During the GS spike hunt, one of the local CO's brought Dale in for lunch and so we could talk to him. (The CO's are just as fed up with this garbage as any hunter is) He knew precisely what would happen, I had a rather pointed conversation with him about wanting explanations for the success rates that have fallen by nearly half across the unit.(which he could not answer) During this process, 9, we counted them, 9 hunters came back to ask him where they could find some elk. 9 Times his response was 'they are out there'.

To put this in perspective, the day before,(a Saturday) a father and his two sons rented a boat from us. They were not avid fishermen, nor were they wealthy, just out for the day. It was the younger sons first trip, and he wanted to catch a fish. After 3 hrs they came in having all but given up. He wanted to hire a guide. I told him absolutely not. Grabbed a rod and all the tackle I needed (at no charge to him) and got in the boat with the intention of fishing for an hour or so to help them be successful. Fishing was tough that day and 3 hours later, I still hadn't found a fish for them. Finally we found a pocket of rainbows and they caught about 10 in the last hour. Now Saturdays are not an easy day for me to be away, it's slightly busy. However, that's how my family works, we were raised this way.

To sit there and watch this employee of the state brazenly wave off hunter after hunter with an air of nonchalance about him was infuriating to me. I left shortly there after for fear of saying something unbecoming of myself.

I have ZERO respect for Dale Litchey, He knows nothing about his unit, has no regard for the plight of the hunter, and is not fit do manage a night shift McDonald's let alone a multimillion dollar state asset.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
How many of the elk that are over their recommended numbers are on private property? Can't be hunted?


Traditional >>>------->
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-03-15 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]The Wasatch is in my backyard and I spend a lot of time in the area. I've observed a few things and wonder if any of you are seeing the same thing. The deer numbers seem to be increasing and they are back in areas that they were all but gone. These areas have less elk in them now then in the past. If less elk equals more deer is that a bad thing? Call me an optimist but with the recent storms the elk are just starting to show up in the wintering grounds. I've been impressed at the quality and number of bulls. As far as cows go it's a little early for me to say they are all but gone. I've been watching several large herds of cows near my home that just showed up in the last few days. One of my favorite things to do is to take my two young boys out in our yard or for a short drive and look for wildlife. From what we've seen I'm not worried that the elk are gone. Maybe I'm just "the glass is half full" kind of person.
 
If You can't see a Drastic Change in Elk Numbers on the Wasatch You are very Blind!







[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
Blaster,

I wasn't even there and that makes my blood boil a little! Sometimes public employees forget that they are there to serve the public. I'm certainly not saying they (we, I guess, since I too am a public employee) have to always go with "the customer is always right." But a Division employee not willing to help a hunter out with a little information is not what I view as a public employee. Bad form.

Hopefully I will be able to find one of the few left on Currant Creek here in a couple weeks. I'm a rookie to late season hunting.
 
I have a call placed with him now.
I am anxious to tell him what i am seeing, and see what kind of response I get.
If I do not get a cordial response, he does not have to agree, I will keep go up the ladder.
I happen to know a couple of the folks in his chain of command.

Anyway, sad to see this elk herd wiped out.
I did see 9 good bulls today however. :)
 
Is 9 Good Bulls gonna satisfy a Fraction of the Hunters next year Huntin for Good Bulls?



>I have a call placed with
>him now.
>I am anxious to tell him
>what i am seeing, and
>see what kind of response
>I get.
>If I do not get a
>cordial response, he does not
>have to agree, I will
>keep go up the ladder.
>
>I happen to know a couple
>of the folks in his
>chain of command.
>
>Anyway, sad to see this elk
>herd wiped out.
>I did see 9 good bulls
>today however. :)










[font color="redhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsueOnu0kY
 
Bowhunt, when you talk to him, ask him to explain the average success rate from 2007-10 being 55% on a 55-5700 pop estimate. Then from 11-13 it falls to 35% on a 77-8900 head estimate.

Ask him to tell you what that means, and what he thinks is happening. you will get an 'uh' for an answer. then he will say 'well I counted them' and 'they are out there'.

I can use the success rates to put together a reasonably accurate pop estimate based on success ratio's compared now to historic levels. If I've done it right, then it suggests that the current population estimate is around 3-3500 head.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
By no means do I agree with how this cow hunt went or how the Wasatch is being managed. It's a huge area! What people see in one part could be totally different in another part. I live on the south west side and just walked in the door from looking at the elk I can see from my house. I counted around 100 cows and over 20 mature bulls. That's normal compared to other years. Based on what I've seen now and during the hunting season I would suggest the cow hunt should be similar to what it used to be. Limited quota, season and specific area of the Wasatch. There was no management in how it was done last year.
 
I agree with trail to some extent. In the area i hunt I have seen way more deer with the fewer amounts of elk. It has been the same for the elk for the last 5-6 years. Very very few cows in our area and a lot of mature Bulls. Not many people hunt the area I do. Anymore that is. I see almost as many Bulls as cows, where 8+ years ago there was an abundance of cows. There used to be 250-350 head that wintered by my parents house. I'm the last three years I have only seen one bull, and that was three years ago. Dale has no business doing the job he has.
 
i would like to know who is buying these tags, and are you kidding me you call that hunting. i was taught better than that when i was little to never shoot the ladies. the dwr and the guys buying these tags make me sick. go shoot coyotes if you want to shoot something this time of year. leave the ladies alone.
 
How about you decide what you want to hunt and let me decide what I want to hunt. Antlerless hunts are used to control population! If you don't kill the cows, you have to kill all the bulls.
 
To each their own on what they legally choose to hunt or not hunt. But to claim some sort of moral or ethical high ground or hunter superiority because you don't shoot cow elk and others do is asinine and ignorant.
 
I know of guys lying on there antlerless survey saying they killed a cow when they didnt even see one all hunt just to give the unit a fighting chance. Pretty sad it has come to that
 
>i would like to know who
>is buying these tags, and
>are you kidding me you
>call that hunting. i was
>taught better than that when
>i was little to never
>shoot the ladies. the dwr
>and the guys buying these
>tags make me sick. go
>shoot coyotes if you want
>to shoot something this time
>of year. leave the ladies
>alone.


Wow the dumbest post of 2015 already and its only January. Wow how dumb
 
Desertpoint make sure you go get your cow in January.This time of year you can get two for the price of one. Shoot one and cut the other one out.
 
And the ignorance that is so effective at preventing anything productive from happening rears its lovely head.

Horsecorn, tell us then if we are to continue to manage for population objectives, how do you propose we do it?

Or if, like I suppose, you haven't thought that far ahead in this train of intelligence perhaps you ought to take a few minutes and come up with some fairy tale that allows you to believe this rubbish.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
You are right .we have to manage the herds. Shooting cows to do that is fine if there is to many, but you can't tell me there are to many any where in the state of Utah. And please don't fall for the dwr's bullish-t about how many elk we have. Drive around and look for your selves. All they are after is the money so they will tell people anything. It's to bad some of us fall for there crap. Look at the whole picture, I know some one will come on here and say they went in a certain draw or spot and seen a whole bunch of cows, yes they might have but look at the whole picture not just a spot or two. The dwr has wiped out the elk in anthro, the south slope, and they are working on the wastach, book cliffs , and every other unit in the state. Thank god for tribal ground out here in the basin or there wouldn't be anyplace they could get away and survive. You can't hunt from Aug to feb and call that management. NO WAY.
 
Now thats a good post horsecorn it is all true . But I see no need to bash other hunters for going after a cow if they have a tag. especially guys taking youth out to try and get their first elk. But no I do not own one of these tags. But this thread should not turn into a pissing contest. FOR ANYONE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS UNIT AND THE BULLS##T THE DWR IS PULLING . PLEASE CONTACT AND VOICE YOUR CONCERN. to the above email or phone number.I own a small piece of land on the unit that is usually the elk wintering grounds. And every year we go up to the cabin during winter months. So far this year the elk herds are drastically down. Herds of 60 elk from two years ago are now herds of 5 or 10. A damn shame.
 
Thank you for the response horsecorn, I apologize for my sarcastic retort in light of your civility.

First, please don't throw the entire organization under the bus. By in large they do a magnificent job of managing within the directives they are given. The number of quality hunting and fishing opportunities found in the state are testaments to that.

Biologists are not perfect, nor are sportsmen, and in several instances this has proven to be a problem and point of contention between the two. In these instances it would seem a bit more respect for the sportsmans concerns and opinions would go a long ways to preventing them.

Sadly tho it must come to threats and politics before the necessary changes are implemented, usually at the expense of opportunity for the hunters. Tags will be cut over this and opportunity will suffer for a few years. Wish it were otherwise but if it is to be repaired that's the avenue to take.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
I lied on my survey saying I killed when I didn't I passed on elk but when you are seeing 5-10 elk after hiking a few miles and watching via a spotter it shows the herd is down.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams
 
I understand what you are trying to do by recording a harvest but not actually taking a cow but I am not sure that it will have the desired effect. If they are basing herd counts on a model that uses visual observations as well as harvest data and they are trying to reduce or maintain the herd size then showing a higher than actual harvest number could result in the DWR issuing more tags in the future. Particularly if the visual herd counts don't start to result in a reduction. The DWR could easily come to the conclusion that the herd was able to withstand the higher harvest and still not reduce or maintain the desired size so therefore we need more tags.

You may be well intentioned but it could backfire. Just a thought.
 
>I understand what you are trying
>to do by recording a
>harvest but not actually taking
>a cow but I am
>not sure that it will
>have the desired effect.
>If they are basing herd
>counts on a model that
>uses visual observations as well
>as harvest data and they
>are trying to reduce or
>maintain the herd size then
>showing a higher than actual
>harvest number could result in
>the DWR issuing more tags
>in the future. Particularly
>if the visual herd counts
>don't start to result in
>a reduction. The DWR
>could easily come to the
>conclusion that the herd was
>able to withstand the higher
>harvest and still not reduce
>or maintain the desired size
>so therefore we need more
>tags.
>
>You may be well intentioned but
>it could backfire. Just
>a thought.

+1
 
In addition, at this point higher success rates=the elk are there. Which is not the message you want to send about this. The success rates are the best ammunition when questioning a count or flawed model. If they come back at normal or above normal numbers then clearly the elk are actually there, if they come back low then we have to find a reason

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
Blaster and Mulecreek are 100% correct....

The better answer is:
Hunted 27 days, Didn't see a single cow!....Wink ;-)


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
Here is the response I received from Dale when I sent him an e-mail asking why they are destroying the elk on the wasatch.




● We cut over 1,500 antlerless elk permits on the Wasatch unit in 2014 - we recommended antlerless elk control permits to reduce hunter crowding by using sportsmen already in the field to harvest animals.
● We anticipated an increased harvest during September and October, but hunting cows was very limited during mid November - late January on Wasatch West (this was to alleviate concerns about late season hunts on winter ranges).
● The population objective is 5,400 and our current estimate is 8,800 (herd unit objectives are put together by a committee to balance the needs of many constituents including land management agencies, sportsmen, the livestock community, the agricultural community, elected officials, and other wildlife proponents). All population objectives are approved via a public process and all recommendations need to reflect progress towards the population objective.
● We exhaustively fly our elk units every 3 years to ?truth? population estimates. This type of population estimation for elk is widely accepted in the scientific wildlife management community.
● We recognize that elk counted during January helicopter surveys may not accurately reflect where elk congregate during fall hunting seasons (many elk are using private lands during hunting seasons or areas that are difficult to access by sportsmen).
● Elk distribution is not as predictable as for other ungulate species. GPS and radio collar data show that elk are not necessarily faithful to specific ranges and don't necessarily summer or winter in the same places each year. Elk movements are dynamic and can be substantially influenced by a variety of factors including hunting pressure.
● We use a winter population objective because winter range is typically the limiting factor for elk populations. Vegetation is limited in the winter, and winter months are when large numbers of elk are most likely to descend onto private lands and cause problems like eating feed intended for livestock and raiding haystacks/tree farms/orchards.
● We manage for multiple species on the landscape and although deer and elk can both persist in an area they can compete for resources especially in difficult winters.
● This January we are capturing 250 elk on the Wasatch and surrounding units and outfitting these animals with GPS satellite collars to better understand survival rates, year round elk distribution, and migration on the unit to help us to better manage the population.
● For more information on elk management in Utah the statewide and unit management plans are available on the Division's website.
● We realize that we are public servants and want to do our best to manage all wildlife resources for the benefit of our constituents. We take all of the concerns seriously and are open to a discussion in regards to herd management on the Wasatch.
 
Ive done a few service projects with Dale L. He was a nice guy back then to me. I have no beef with him. BUT, I would love to go on a ride or fly or what ever it is they do now days and see 8,800 elk. I am not calling anyone liers, but I dont believe those numbers. Maybe it was a mis print of 3,800 or 2,800, but i honestly dont believe 8,800.
 
I got my response from dale he told me basically yes they do count all the private property elk and the public land elk as one they base their tag numbers off of these in their fly overs. My response to him was that he knows alot of those elk are not public land elk. Boy my blood is pumping wolf creek ranch little red creek buckhorn and all of the other cwmu areas hold a whole lot of elk on this unit but hey lets just slaughter the public land herds
 
Friend hunted elk this year during the archery.....hunted the whole hunt and saw maybe 15 cows the entire hunt

Uncle hunted early rifle hunt and saw maybe 10 cows entire hunt....ended up getting nice 340 bull

Drew cow tag for October hunt for wasatch cow to actually save a cow......

It is so sad not to see the number the elk that I used to see on the wasatch....
 
>I got my response from dale
>he told me basically yes
>they do count all the
>private property elk and the
>public land elk as one
>they base their tag numbers
>off of these in their
>fly overs. My response
>to him was that he
>knows alot of those elk
>are not public land elk.
>Boy my blood is pumping
>wolf creek ranch little red
>creek buckhorn and all of
>the other cwmu areas hold
>a whole lot of elk
>on this unit but hey
>lets just slaughter the public
>land herds


Brian don't believe that for even a second, I have access to a fair chunk of the private and the elk are down there as well.

Dale's response is revealing in a couple ways, if there is even the slightest possibility that the elk are not summering on the ranges that they intend to manage on then the model is broken and we have a MASSIVE problem...he put that possibility right in his response!

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
Berryblaster I actually own a piece of land that borders blm land so I do see that the private herds are down as well. That being said the amount of public land hunters whiping out small herds in the popular huntinggrounds takes its toll more than the very select few that draw a cwmu the elk bolt for private property as soon as the game start A family member of mine has worked on the wolf creek ranch for many years now. I have witnessed this first hand.there is absolutely no hunting pressure on that ranch when you actually get access to go up there it is like driving through Yellowstone elk are everywhere and damn near come up to the window of your truck during the rut. We counted 250 seperate elk in one weekend during the summer they were around every corner. Those same elk during the winter raised all kinds of hell down in the farm lands that winter. One ofmy family members job was to put hay down on the ranch to try and keep the elk from the farmland that didnt work. The next year guess what public land tag increase. And the same elk end up back at the ranch
 
There is a massive problem already bb the elk are gone quit sad to see. I wish more people would put more pressure on the dwr.I hear people complaining about it all the time. I cant count how many times I got asked where are the elk while up there by other people .then complaining that they are gone but do nothing.
 
There are very few people who are more aware of the issues facing the unit. For the last three years we have fought tooth and nail against these permits. From that experience let me throw a few ideas out there

#1 Arguing counts is fruitless and an exercise in futility.

#2 The public private issue is one of several legitimate problems but it is not THE problem.

#3 conspiracy theories about politics are just that, conspiracy.

#4 the avenue to take is found in the question 'why do we continue to manage with reckless abandon while there are problems in the model?'

The collar study is a product of low success rates, they recognize something is wrong but continue to do damage. figure that one out....

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-15 AT 07:54PM (MST)[p]
> I am sure bb you guys are on the frontlines up there and I can tell you I appreciate it. If there is anyway people could help I am sure you would have a line starting with me. The sucess rates is another problem being brought up I have heard of a handful of people lying on their harvest surveys thinking they are helping the matter
 
Years and Years ago children we on the Manti had our elk unit changed from open to spike. The dream was to create a trophy unit on the Manti. For years there weren't spikes or bigger bulls, but the waiting would be worth it, just wait. We did, and they were right, those herds exploded. Joy was felt througout the land, big bulls everywhere, elk everywhere. THEN, the idea came to our lovely and caring DWR friends that they could sell more tags on the Manti because it had become a magic tree where trophy bulls sprung out magically. More and more tags were sold. As usuall with the sells came all the "conservation" groups with there hands out, "give us some welfare tags and we will make the magic tree everywhere", so they were granted their beans to make the elk beanstalk reappear elsewhere.
A tag for bobby, a tag for sam, a tag in July, a tag in December, here a tag, there a tag, everywhere a tag tag. Kill them all, bulls, cows, calfs, the magic tree will continue to spew it. BUTTTTTT,

That damb tree broke, and the magic stopped. The manti is the most tagged out, killed off unit in the state. The age objectives are lowered, the quality is way down. In short the golden eggs done broke.

So our fairy god mothers decided to head south, the Fishlake, the fishlake they say has the magic now, ... a tag for you, a tag for me, everyone gets a tag....POOOFFFFF, the fishlake is gone.

Sounds like the magic tree was spotted to the noth of Manti now??

Why is the SFW making deals with the DWR? WHo the hell gave them any power to do anything? I don't remember electing them. I remember paying them, but I was hoping that was to sit in the corner and shut up.

Second, how many elk can die in 3 years? If they only fly it every three years, then ANY changes should be on 3 year intervals. And to be honest, it may be time to require a non DWR employee to "fly along". There are a ton of us that would like to volutnteer.
Good luck to my Wasatch friends, fight hard, otherwise your the next Manti.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-15 AT 09:15AM (MST)[p]Hoss, YES, the Manti elk quality has declined significantly.

BUT, the Wasatch elk herd is in FAR worse shape!
Just as the subject title states-----Wasatch Cows, gone!


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
I don't hunt the wasatch, my point was simply that HOPING the DWR will stop is a waste, they won't. Hopefully the next "magic" unit that gets built up then targeted as "over objective" is fought before the DWR sells the first tag.

I thought the point of wildlife regs and conservation efforts was to not have the boom bust cycles found in nature. If the DWR is going to boom bust the populations, what good are they?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-15 AT 12:21PM (MST)[p]>I don't hunt the wasatch, my
>point was simply that HOPING
>the DWR will stop is
>a waste, they won't.
>Hopefully the next "magic" unit
>that gets built up then
>targeted as "over objective" is
>fought before the DWR sells
>the first tag.
>
>I thought the point of wildlife
>regs and conservation efforts was
>to not have the boom
>bust cycles found in nature
> if I had to bet I would say beaver Monroe or pahvant are going to be the next victims
 
Since so many seem to believe the Utah DWR is intentionally trying to destroy elk herds in areas of Utah, I am curious as to why you think they are doing this?

Many people seem to point to wanting more money for the DWR? I have always struggled with this thought given that the DWR employees don't get to keep the profit at the end of the year. What is the incentive to decimate the herd simply to get more money? It just doesn't seem logical to me.

A more logical reason to me would be ignorance or incompetence. The problem with this is these are the same people that intentionally made changes to increase the elk herds in the early nineties. Those changes worked. I hunted elk in Utah prior to the spike only units and large elk management changes of the early 90's. It is a night and day difference today from then. If they were so competent then, why would they be so incompetent now? I know others are far more knowledgeable on this than I am so I am curious as to your thoughts.
 
Local fish cop doesn't set the objectives. However last I checked the UDWR is "self funded". Them trucks don't buy themselves, nor boats, choppers, etc. I think that for the most part you were closer with "lazy". I started hunting grouse in Sept. Hunted deer, elk, pheasants, ducks, geese. I saw 2 DWR in 4 months(i don't hunt wilderness). The first dude was in the Uintas kicking some folks off the picnic area on the north slope with a little rich kid whose family "paid" for it.Opening weekend of elk hunt, dude was in mocs, and a clean truck. The second was the Ogden Bay boss, and I had to go to his house to find him. The fish cop in Manti didn't leave his house the first few days of the muzz hunt. In short, I think there are some real good DWR dudes that live the life, but more and more I think we have cop wannabes. You can't watch the elk if your running backup for DUI calls.
One of the previous posts pointed out they are flying private ranches. Either they don't understand how their count models work(in which case they shouldn't be doing them) or they do and just don't care, which makes them worthless.
I agree, going to spike hunts was a good idea, but like I pointed out, especially the Manti, they are used as a cash cow.
In their defense, the ski industry gets money out of the state budget, would be nice if DWR does.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Again, don't throw the entire organization under the bus for the perceived failures of a few.

Mule, I think that most guys get frustrated and build a 'case' against the set as a whole when they make a mistake or something bad happens. As a result they fail to recognize all of the great things that the DWR has accomplished and continues to accomplish.

By in large they do a great job! And should be recognized for it! However, there are instances of failure and mistake. This is where we need some accountability

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
Do not throw the entire org under the bus, trust me a lot of the ground guys feel exactly the same as the sportsman. To watch the huge herd decline even in Wolf Creek Ranches makes me sick.
 
>Do not throw the entire org
>under the bus, trust me
>a lot of the ground
>guys feel exactly the same
>as the sportsman. To watch
>the huge herd decline even
>in Wolf Creek Ranches makes
>me sick.


I am sure some of the ground guys feel bad. But I also know that in my business and alot of others. I get a whole of information from my direct reports i.e ground guys. And i know that i gauge a problem buy the amount and importance of their concerns.for this to go on for the last few years tells me maybe just maybe some of these guys do not report the same concerns to their boss as they lead to the general public. Either they dont have the backbone to stand up to their boss or they simply think there Is not a problem personal agenda or professional. Like I said I wouldnt say all of them but some of this has to be put on their back to. Yhey are in the field more than any of us.
 
This Wasatch elk 'problem' with control permits was
basicaly forced down everyones throat by the Wildlife board.,
Despite what any other input was!

Early last year the consensus was to "give the Wasatch as rest".

To all but eliminate antlerless elk permits for a year, or two.

BUT, the all mighty Utah wildlife board, at the permit number
meeting, changed all that and put control cow permits on the
entire Wasatch unit for 2014...........

That is were I believe this problem needs to be adrressed:
E-mailing board members directly may-be the most effcient
way to ending this BS.



4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-15 AT 03:12PM (MST)[p]I take it sfw or rmef dont have a voice in this matter .they cant talk the talk but dont walk the walk. When everybody from the co's patrolling the area to a huge out cry from the public. And nothing every body who spends time or pays attention to the elk on this unit know this is a problem. It is no secret but nothing.
 
I have hunted this unit for twelve of the last fourteen years. Only not hunting while out of town for two years. I have killed 8 or 9 elk in that time. My question is this: the DWR is killing off the herd, that is proven by all of us that see it first hand. Eventually as previous models have shown us the unit will be extremely limited or shut down. Then what for all of us Wasatch hunters? We go to another unit and kill off their elk also? I just hope it gets figured out before it gets out of control and takes years to come back. More for the next generations sake then my own.
 
For those who are interested, Covy Jones is a great contact. He is proactively looking for solutions, and I think he would welcome your observations, ideas, and help.

I (we) have been impressed with Covy and what he is trying to accomplish. I don't know how to find his contact info but he works as a biologist for the division so it must be somewhere.

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
Here are my questions/concerns. If winter ground was a concern why did the dwr not reach out to landowners on the elk winter grounds and get a real good feel for what the landowners think. I know for a fact they did not because I own land on the winter range. Why is the slaughter only going on on the public portion cwmu tags didnt increase. Where the hell are they pulling these numbers out of. Why cant they get it through their heads a big portion of these wintering elk summer on private property. And most importantly it is an obvious mistake/problem why are they denying there grade school performance on elk management for the unit. It is abviously a mistake and a huge concern for many sportsman and conservation officers that spend just as much time in the field as the guys who are calling these shots have behind there desk. Why not fix it instead of denying it
 
You know what. what does it matter how many cow tags they give. If nobody would buy them then we would have elk. Easy solution.
 
Exhaustive - examining, including, or considering all elements or aspects; fully comprehensive. "she has undergone exhaustive tests since becoming ill"

Exhausting - making one feel very tired; very tiring. "a long and exhausting journey"

Dax
 
>You know what. what does it
>matter how many cow tags
>they give. If nobody would
>buy them then we would
>have elk. Easy solution.


Even better why dont you buy as many as you can and not hunt with them
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-15 AT 02:45PM (MST)[p]>On the bright side the herds
>that frequent Heber are at
>about 1/2 of historic levels....one
>has 120-30 the other 85-100...
>
>
>https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters


Hmmmm sarcasm a little. And guess what another 14 day cow hunt starts this weekend. Let the last stage of the slaughter begin for this year anyway
 
I gave my feedback.
Got the answer, unit still over objective, voice your concerns at the rac meetings.

Well if ya can't beat em, join me. I love elk meat, so next year we are going to start helping with the thinning.

It is going to get tough to shoot a cow in a few years, so I am going to get after it.
Live for today right:)
 

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