Theyh're not doing good at all

Y

YELUM

Long Time Member
Messages
3,515
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-08 AT 08:06PM (MST)[p]My buddy(RB) and his dad went for a ride today and this is what they saw. Not counting road kill, they say 7 deer that had died within 24 hours, and this buck that was alive when the picture was taken. He died within an hour. It may be too late to help the herds now, but will be too late in a week. This was near East Canyon.

Yelum

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where is this at? sure do hate to see this but this is nature.10-15 percent winterkill is not abnormal in some areas if it goes beyond that the area should be closed to hunting
 
I saw 7 or 8 dead deer off the side of 84 in weber canyon within a half mile stretch. I have also been out glassing quite a bit the last few weeks and have seen the deer struggling. I believe that the herds are going to have a lot of winter kill. I dont understand what the hold up is with the division stepping in and do something to help, such as a feeding program. I am sure there would be plenty of volunteers or dedicated hunters that would be willing to help do what they could. Without something, I am sure that we will see many more pictures such as these.
 
heartbreaking. This is really going to take a toll on an already low deer population. It seems that the snow just keeps piling across the west. Very heartbreaking. Thanks for the update.
 
oh man! you guys sure are having a bad winter. is there going to be any deer left over there?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-08 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]These pictures are the true facts of what mother nature can do to wipe out a entire herd of mule deer.With more storms coming in and many more days ahead of very cold conditions and more snow its sad but true that the northern deer herd is in huge trouble by looking at these photos.It makes me sick to even look at what lies ahead.
Mule Deer are such a fragile animal when mother nature comes down hard.In the next 3 weeks you will see many deer dead.I dont like looking at these type of pictures when no feed is available for mule deer .I would hope that any regions where high death rates occur the DWR would close all hunting on general and Cwmu lands until MULE DEER can make a full recovery.I would send the DWR the same amount that we pay for a general license and just not hunt if money is an issue.How many others would do the same?Before this is over we may learn that it is not only the northern region in Utah, it may also include the northeast and central regions also.I have no idea how the southern region is doing can anyone give us some up-dates on regions?By the looks of these northern region pics the deer will be all but gone. We have seen this happen before and it wont be the last.
Its very sad that a deer herd can be lost so quick and more sad that it can take so long to get a healthy deer herd back.
 
makes me sick that nothing is being done about it. I'm not nieve and think that they can all be saved but a little effort would be nice. DWR just likes to exploit the herds and make money off them and then when they are in dire need they offer no help what so ever. look at colorado, I'm sure they aren't even footing alot of the bill, with all the donations of money and time. I'm just saying that a little something would be nice.
 
I live up in Layton and have been watching the herds on the wasatch front. Went snowshoing a few days ago and things didn't look too bad on the south facing slopes. I did see a stupid lady with two dogs not leashed up. One of the dogs took off after a two point, chased it into the next county. I doudt that lady ever found her dog. It piss's me off when I see people let their dogs chase after wildlife especially during a critical time of year such as now! Keep your damn dogs out of the mountains if you can't control em'! And if your gonna watch the wildlife, watch them through a spotting scope so as to not stress them any more than they already are.
 
When is Utah F&G going to get a brain and start feeding them.


(IF I ONLY HAD A BRAIN)
 
Have you seen the elk pushed all the way down to cabelas? Thats really sad even they are starting to succumb.


-DallanC
 
That Sucks. It would help if people would stop building all those houses in their winter range! Sad deal!!!
 
RE: They're not doing good at all

"sure do hate to see this but
this is nature. 10-15 percent winterkill
is not abnormal in some areas"

I feel your plight in Utah, Colorado and elsewhere.

Last year, here in N'ern S.E. Alaska, we broke the all-time snowfall record with 200+" in winter of 2006/07. We were nutsack deep in snow at Vet's day and it didn't let up until April. Some place had 10 FEET of snow on the beaches. Deer had a damn hard time surviving 4 months on the beach eating seaweed and kelp. Lots of deer never even made it to the beaches as they got stuck up on the hillsides. They had to burrow thru the snow bank to reach the guard timber for some "choice" woody browse. Some places had 75-90% mortality. Most were probably around 50%. Fish & Game was strongy suggesting harvesting of bucks and fawns, as they knew the fawns wouldn't survive. They screwed up by not eliminating doe season from the get-go this year. They waited until early December this year to make it bucks-only.

It's the hard truth about global warming - ha ha ha. It's going to take years to get the population back to normal.

It's natures way - only the stong survive. May not necessarily pass on the best antler gentics, but this "system" has worked for eons.
 
I was snowshoeing last week in Parley's and saw two elk carcasses. Both were pretty bony, one a bull, one a cow. Saw a deer carcass across the canyon.

My buddy the G Warden has moved several calf moose this year that have become stranded. He says he hasn't seen this many left behind for a very long time.
 
We where up on the new trail by North Ogden Pass last week breaking the new trail in with snowshoes and there was some lady way down in those orchards with three dogs...one big blackie was chasing all the deer around....

If I only had my new 7mag with me, I could have had a nice long shot at the blackie.

She didn't have a clue as to how much damage she was doing with fido off the leash.

Robb
 
Doesn't help either when people are out there chasing them around, taking pictures, putting more stress on them.
 
The UDWR will do something when the public outcry is more then they can take and of coarse it will be far to little to late.
 
.......And PLEASE avid shed hunters, stay out of the hills till this is all over!!!

I realize there is a restriction in the northern reagion, but the central and north eastern is getting hammered just as bad with deep snow, please stay out of the hills.
I have never seen so many elk across the wasatch front (Utah County)in my life, these animals are really struggeling!!

Thanks for the good post YELLUM :)











Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
Yelum,

Thanks for the pics, the cold hard reality of this winter is painfully obvious.

I'm personally very dissapointed in the apparant lack of action by the DWR and our conservation groups in the state of Utah.

The deer deserve better than this.

Sad situation all the way around.
 
I would ask each of you what have you done? Or maybe what can you do? It has been said before the only way the DWR will react is if enough pressure is put on them. Who ever holds rights to the pictures above send them to the DWR, they are worth a thousand words, send them to the newspaper. I have written two e-mails that were sent to the Northern Region Mule Deer committee which includes key Northern Region DWR personnel and Conservation Org rep.s. So far the DWR response has been we are monitoring the situation. It is impossible for a few DWR employees to be on top of all situations help them out. Don't rant and rave but provide examples, solutions. etc. Give them a call!
I will give credit where credit is due. Leadership of MDF SFW/SFH have responded to both me and DWR with an offer of help both financially and physically. As an SFW critic I have ate some humble pie. Thanks SFW & MDF.
Remember the DWR work for you, we need to hold them accountable for their positions.
However, it takes some effort from us also.
Check out the Utah thread a good discussion is happening. I copied the DWR on my post.
 
So many people in the woods . . . no wonder I keep seeing deer in the city.
 
Mule packer and others. SFW is starting to feed deer on private ground until the DWR can get things rolling. Which hopefully will be soon. Chapture leaders have the OK to buy pellets from IFA for local deer feeding. Kamas has started. Cache will start today. SFW will be paying the bills for now. For info in the Cache area call me. Thanks, Greg Blotter 435)757-6775 cell.
 
And what about Utah the County herds, anyone going to help these out?
There's all kinds of elk, and moose in the valleys now besides all the deer.









Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
huntin100,

I appalud you for the effort. A couple words of caution, a very specific plan will need to be implemented in order to maximize feeding and not add fuel to the deer die with full bellies fire. I would try and force the division to implement the feeding plan as they have some knowledge as to the needs and in that there are laws pertaiing to feeding. I would call Kris Peterson who has conducted research for a PHD in this area I know she will have some valuable insight.
My sled is ready if needed.
 
It's a sad situation. We had one of the best fawn crops in years from what I seen in 2007.

We need a place to donate for feeding set up at the hunt expo next week.
 
I have been told that the DWR is going to start feeding Monday in certin areas. The feeding program needs to be done the right way or more deer may die in our attemps to help them. SFW is coordination feeding in certin areas. I agree, too late of a start in some areas. Lots of road kills as well. If you want to donate time and help. More info about helping out will be coming. Thanks, Greg
 
Good call antler1!!!!!!!!
They should set up a donation booth at the expo next weekend!!









Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
So you think we should just let them die? I'll bet you go to the doctor when you don't want nature to take it's course.

I've made two donations to Colorado and I'll donate to Utah if they get a program going. as hunters it's a great investment, besides being humane is just the right thing to do.
 
its mans fault they've encrouched/built houses in many places in what USE to be deer winter range but I don't know about the particulars in utah
 
"So you think we should just let them die?"

No dude I don't think we should let them die. I'm sure there are many people who want to help these deer, including the G&F. There are probably numerous reasons that nobody has a clue about as to why they haven't done anything yet. But rather than realize that, everybody lays blame on them for letting these deer die. Why?











It's Bush's fault!!!
 
I can't say why in Utah but it might be the same reason they don't in Oregon, not that we need it yet. they say they don't have any money and it doesn't do any good, which is BS.

Some winters if it wasn't for us guys feeding cattle and the hay they rob out of the shed we'd have a bad die off. game can and do live off the same feed cattle do, you just can't let them get too poor before they get it. pellets are the best though thats for sure.
 
What would happen to a guy who drops a half ton bale of grass hay at the bottom of a drainage where deer are known to be? ....just out of curiosity....
 
We got another 10" of snow last night in Hyrum. I took a quick drive up the mouth of Blacksmith Fork Canyon, things don't look good. Deer are bunched up everywhere. To heck with the deer hunt this year, there won't be anything to hunt. I bet that the Dang DWR will do nothing in cuting tags either. So with that we can watch the remainder of the deer hears be shot off this fall. Well, I sure hope you Northern Utah Boys like hunting Elk. Northern Utah's coming an Elk only area....plus the next storm that's coming this Sunday. That will just top it off. To bad everybody in Utah has to build on the benches, no winter range left for our animals!

www.DarleyPhotography.com
 
I emailed them, and will call later in the day when I get a moment.

This was my email to the DNR-
"I know that the division is well aware of the current situation with the snow depths and the deer herds. Is there any efforts going to this major problem? I have not heard of any feeding going on from the division itself. As you may know, I know that there are certain organizations that have implemented feeding, to struggling deer. I have personally seen the dying, stranded, and starving deer. I can not help but think it will only get worse. If the DNR is not feeding in areas where the deer are indeed struggling, why not? If the reason for the lack of attention to this problem, is man power or money, I know there are many willing and able people that would donate time/ money to the cause. There are also 10,000 dedicated hunters that need the hours as well. In talking with some groups, the idea of having a booth at the upcoming expo where people could donate money for feeding?
This was by no means to tell the DNR how to manage our deer herds, but more to voice the concerns of many people in and outside the state.
Please contact me if there is anything possible I can do to help, on any level.
Thank you for your time,"

I urge everyone to call or email to voice your opinions and your willingness to help.
 
I called the Northern Office, the guy I spoke with said there is no feeding going on yet in Northern Utah. That they are looking into it right now. As far as the herd numbers go, they will do a count this spring, if they have been hit hard, they will cut how many tags are issued. It kind of sounded like they have to get hit real hard before they even think about cutting tags. To bad the tag money is the only real money they get for helping out with their jobs and keeping the animals in check. The state needs to find more moeny to help out the DWR, that why it's not all about the amount of tags sold.

My 2 cents...

www.DarleyPhotography.com
 
It sounds like they want a problem so that they can try and fix it after the fact. This logic sounds completely stupid. Why wait for the problem to be created before offering solutions. Tag cuts isn't going to help the deer herd for years. We need to start doing something fairly quick on this. Does anyone have the contact info on who we can write at the DWR. I sent an e-mail already but I don't know if it went to a person that can actually help.

How about SFW or the Mule Deer Foundation?

I know there are some big wigs with these outfits on here. What can we do as hunters? Nobody else is going to do anything?
 
Yelum,

Do you care if we borrow your pics to attach to e-mails on this subject? These pictures say more than any words we can write.
 
I told RB last night he needs to send the pics to the DWR and channel 5 news, stating what he saw and the conditions, and told him to make a post here. He emailed me the pics and asked me to post them. So I'm sure he won't mind if they are sent by multiple people.

I sent an email to the comments address of the DWR this morning.

Yelum
 
Man, I was having a great day until I saw those pictures.

As a concerned sportsman, I too sent an e-mail to the division expressing my concern for our deer herd. Is it me, or does it seem that the people that are responsible for managing our deer herds are always a step behind? Its been storm after storm after storm... something needs to be done at some point. Or, at least an explanation on what they are planning or not planning to do.

BowHuntr
 
Won't make any difference. Mother nature cycles winters to control populations. Feeding deer is usually futile at best. They can't servive on hay and usually need alfalfa pellets which are very costly. Nature is doing it's job. This really does speak to the problem of building homes in prime wintering areas all around the west. If that is the case with these deer then man is to blame for this. If it's just because it's an extreme winter then you won't be able to do much about it and the State game departments know it. It's sad but natural.
 
Yelum,

Thanks. I sent pictures with my e-mails. I also drafted up an e-mail and sent it to the hunters in my address book to try and get the word out and round up some help. This situation isn't going to get better anytime soon. Especially with another storm coming in Sunday. Thanks sagain!



** I really wish the MDF or SFW would come on here and set something up where we can go and help out directly.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-08 AT 04:07PM (MST)[p]kingfish
Mother nature does not cycle to control populations. There are cycles in weather, but animal populations don't bring them on.

As the keepers of the land, its our job to help out when needed. And it was needed a few weeks ago to be ready for now.

Yelum
 
Nature....hum....the lost of winter range due to everybody wanting to build their houses on the winter range???? I would say we are the problem due to the houses on the Wasatch Front, so, we are the problem, we sure can help out!

www.DarleyPhotography.com
 
Ok kingfish, if this is natures way......let them all die then and we don't want to hear you complain to the DNR next fall when you can't find a buck to shoot at!

And i'm afraid this is most definately NOT "natures way".
Yes there are harsh winters, always have been and always will be on occasion, but just like stated in the post above. WE...i say WE have robbed and invaded them of THEIR wintering grounds, the freakin LEAST WE can do is help them out for crying out loud!!











Skull Krazy
"No Bones About It"
 
The DWR said they will start feeding Monday after they see what these storms do. They alredy have the feed ready to go and some feed locations identified, they will just need the manpower to help. As a sidenote, the Davis/Weber county chapter of SFW has asked the DWR several times if we can help with the feeding and get it started( this was several weeks ago) but they declined at that time. We offered to help pay for it and provide some man hours but they said they would wait. Since then some SFW funded feeding has been taking place on private lands in the area, on the front in weber county included.
 
Cowcallin,

If you need additional help please post some contact info for those of us that would like to help out.

Why is the DWR being so stubborn about the fact that these deer could use a little help right now? That's just frustrating.

Any info on who to contact at the DWR?
 
If the deer are already dieing, its probably too late to feed.

This snow has been coming fast and furious for 7 weeks so its no big surprise to wildlife managers. I can tell you they played the odds and assumed Al Gore's profecy would start a January thaw. We haven't had a real winter like this in 25 years in Colorado. Its damn labor intensive to feed and its much easier to make a paycheck checking licenses on ice fisherman than it is toting bags of alfalfa pellets all day. The main reason the DOW is feeding in the Gunnison Basin of Colorado is in response to heavy public pressure. The DOW can say it was them who showed concern but it was some very insistant and vociferous locals who got the ball rolling.

The deer north of where I live are experiencing some pretty harsh conditions and they are really piled up into the lower end of the Blue River Valley. The sagebrush that is exposed above the snowline is completely worked over right now and the deer are having to dig for food. I look for a substantial winterkill to occur in March over much of the inner mountain region of Colorado. The deer are just getting by right now but are becoming weaker on a daily basis. The elk are moving down now because of the increased snow depths at their typical winter range and they are directly competing with the deer for food.

I called 3 different individuals within the DOW with inquiries about feeding a certain herd in deep snow(40 inches) about 2 weeks ago and never got a single return curtiousy call. Bottom line is they don't want to talk about and don't want to do it unless people scream like 3 year olds who just dropped their ice cream cones.

I'd hate to be sitting on 13 preference points right now wishing I could turn back the clock.
 
I will post contact info when available. Dont know who to contact at the DWR, my info came from the boys in charge at SFW who have talked with the DWR. The DWR has quite the criteria to meet before they will feed(obviously). At least there are concerned sportsman who are willing to take a stand and make a difference, thanks to all who have called or e-mailed the DWR. Hopefully we aren't past the "point of no return" so to say, and the deer can come out on top through all this.
 
i don't know nuthin' bout 'east canyon'...i don't know nuthin' bout 'global warming', and i know very little bout 'mother nature'..but, this sure looks like a bad situation..i can only hope it does not get any worse...
 
The sad thing is it is going to get worse,It is going to snow on sunday again,,I have snow almost to my butt and I live in the valley,,It will get worse,,
 
The DWR is starting deer feeding tomarrow. Priority areas are:


Ogden Valley
East Canyon
Morgan/Rich
Kamas/Oakly/Heber City
Cache

Those in the Cache area who would like to volunteer. Call Greg Blotter 435 757-6775. Thanks, Greg
 
I suppose next years East Canyon Bucks won't be as big, if there is any left at all! Glad I killed a good one this year I suppose...
 
Just a few thoughts

1 - its good that the DWR is doing something.

2- I can say from my viewing, which granted has only been on the weekends and near the foothills of the valleys, that the deer in Southern Salt Lake County and Utah County were doing very well last weekend and while we have had a lot of snow, I think they will make it.

3- I don't see any deer minding the homes on the benches that much - in fact some of them rather enjoy hangin in the yards. The pioneers encroached on the winter range, what were doing now is about 40 years after the real problem, but its easy to blame the rich guy that lives on the hill.

4- Anyone that knows ANYTHING about global warming knows that it involves extreme climate changes both cold and hot. I get a kick out of those that say because it snows more this year than in 25 years global warming is a farce. The fact is, its happening in small part because of global warming. Is the end coming, I ain't worried. But, global warming (ie the planet getting hotter and changing climates) is FACT.

5- its good that the DWR is doing something! Oh, and I guess I will have to join SFW because I thank them also.
 
this is winter is a duzy no doubt,but 1st stop taking pics, & snowshoeing & driving up the canyon & glassing all, of these are bothering the animals, if you want to jack around in the snow go up to the ski resorts where there are only good looking ladies & not a bunch of animals trying to survive, you hunters should know this!! These other people letting there dog chase the deer are just clueless peta members, I would not doubt the work for fish & wildlife. no body is moving in the wildlife department because of the bullshit red tape, money, & idoit college book worms & anti's that are starting to take over the wildlife department all over the country. How many of you people on this web site vote & i mean every year not just for president. how many are nra members etc. get involved now our our rights, amimals, guns & a sport we all love will be gone. This is not the 1st time we have been in winter. hope for warmer weather
 
"I don't see any deer minding the homes on the benches that much - in fact some of them rather enjoy hangin in the yards. The pioneers encroached on the winter range, what were doing now is about 40 years after the real problem, but its easy to blame the rich guy that lives on the hill."

Are you for real?
 
This is a sad situaction, the game will be decimated.
Just saw the weather, another Big storm coming in to the Rockies this week.
Saying this is natures way is ignorant.
 
Anyone know what they are feeding the deer and where they get it from. As I know you can not just go out and feed them alfalfa and hay this time of year....

UThunting
CLynt l Citte
Willard Ut
 
Thanks Justin,
If this isn't nature running it's course what the hell is it??? Please tell me some of you guys aren't that dumb??? Nature cycles that's a fact. Is God just mad at Utah???LOL! IDIOTS!!!
 
Kingfish, you use to bring something to this forum. Are 1,000s of acres of winter range with 10,000s houses on them part of "Nature"? In your lala land of snips and attacks, you fail to realize that "Nature" is completely changed by man in many places. Are freeways cutting of migration routes part of "nature"?

You like to spout off on the "Natural Cycle" of this world we live in. Does that include roadkill, housing development, scopes, 800 yard guns, domestic dogs chasing deer, poachers, man-made reservoirs cutting-off migration and winter range. You and the GYES are cut from the same cloth and put no stock into the fact that man has changed eco-systems to the point where "Nature" is not able to overcome the effects of man.
 
Excellent post Packout!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
>"I don't see any deer minding
>the homes on the benches
>that much - in fact
>some of them rather enjoy
>hangin in the yards. The
>pioneers encroached on the winter
>range, what were doing now
>is about 40 years after
>the real problem, but its
>easy to blame the rich
>guy that lives on the
>hill."
>
>Are you for real?

Yeah! And the point is that the deer adapt - to an extent I know. But, to only blame those on the benches is pretty narrow minded. I doubt 100 years ago that the deer wintered on the benches.
 
Buckstopshere,

Are you feeling some guilt for moving to the benches? Maybe you are in the land sales/development business? Mule deer aren't as an adaptive animal as you might think. Mule deer don't do well on winter ranges full of human development and I am not just talking about the highest house on the hill, but overall "development" (faster speed limits, more homes in overall winter range, more roads, and everything else Packout mentioned) that are killing our mule deer. Humans have already intervened with mule deer, to say let "nature" take it's course is ignorant.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-08 AT 04:14PM (MST)[p]Packout, You have never brought anything to this forum that I have read!! As a matter of fact this is the first time I have even heard of you? If you can read or better yet comprehend what you read you would see that I have on many occasions talked about all those issues at nausium. The fact of the matter is this is a horrible winter and that's because nature caused the 6 feet of snow on some winter ranges with not one house, highway, blah, blah, blah...But I am glad you use to enjoy my posts. If you guys weren't concerned about filling your tags you wouldn't even care how many deer die. If you did you WOULD be railing against highways, home sites on winter range, blue tongue, fences, etc...Thanks for compliment.
 
Thats nuts. Hope they hang!

Timberline
479e683e07df5b74.jpg

"Live for somethin' or die for nothin'"
 
Kingfish wrote: "I have on many occasions talked about... issues at nausium"

Finally something we can agree on. You take care buddy and live in your own little world where the evolution of nature over 10,000s of years coexists with the dramtic effects people have had on the enviornment over the past 80.
 
JV- Give me a break, pal. Where I was there were no tracks, the animals have left a long time ago. I'm not out shed-hunting, chasing animals with my dog, nor taking pictures with anything more than a spotting scope from a parking lot.

Nochawk and Yelum are the same, so before you start yapping about us hunters not knowing any better, we do and we are.

If it wasn't for us hunters NOTICING the animals in trouble, do ya think anyone else would call the DWR???
 
Keep your fingers crossed!

Finally, a warming trend forecast for Utah. Once we get through the snow tomorrow, it may finally start to get above freezing.

In 1993 after all the snow in January, February was sub zero throughout most of Utah. Hopefully this year it will different than 1993.
 
This new storm that is hitting us today will be hard on the deer herds.There are also alot of elk around Echo junction please slow down and stay alert they are getting very close to the highway.There is a herd I seen just south of the dam that was bedded in between the highways its just a matter of time when they will be hit by vehicles and kill somebody or several people on this stretch of road.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-08
>AT 08:06?PM (MST)
>
>My buddy(RB) and his dad went
>for a ride today and
>this is what they saw.
> Not counting road kill,
>they say 7 deer that
>had died within 24 hours,
>and this buck that was
>alive when the picture was
>taken. He died within
>an hour. It may
>be too late to help
>the herds now, but will
>be too late in a
>week. This was near East
>Canyon.
>
>Yelum
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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>
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What a shame , looks like the Division did there jobs again. I am so glad we all keeping buying licenses and giving them more money every year.
 
Pheasantgod,
What is the Division's role in this?
I honestly don't think the Division of Wildlife is allowed to do their job. Way too much political pressure from special interest groups. Nothing gets done at the division level without the expressed consent of special interest groups. (Grabbot and Pay)
As a tax payer, I would like to see the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources return to managing Utah's wildlife using sound wildlife biology techniques.
 

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