Wasatch Elk Debacle

Igottabigone · Mar 2, 2015

There is a new committee that was formed to try and revise the management plan for elk on the Wasatch Unit. All the usual players are on said committee, even the Forest Service (which is interesting to me). Anyway, this past week the committee met and ALL but the DWR said the elk heard was suffering. This includes conservation orgs, sportsmen, landowners, ranchers, etc. etc.

However, the DWR apparently believes the Wasatch elk numbers are currently growing. WTF? Covey and Dale the biologists for the DWR estimate the heard numbers at 10,000 elk. Dax is probably with them too. Again, WTF? Last year they had unlimited cow tags for the majority of the unit. So with approximately 2,800 tags for cow elk how many would you estimate were killed. According to the DWR, 130 cows were killed last year unit wide. WTF? So with a thriving elk herd, according to the DWR, the success rates for cows was 4%. Interesting that the DWR says there are 10,000 head of elk and the US Forest Service guy pipes up and says if there were that many elk he'd be hearing from the ag guys. Funny though that he indicates the ag guys say the elk aren't there. So the DWR says the plan again this year is to go open season on the elk. Interesting to note, though, that the DWR acknowledges that the elk on the southern part of the unit, Diamond Fork, Sheep Creek, Tie Fork, etc. are all but gone. According to the DWR this herd of elk crossed highway 6 and are now on the Manti unit. Mind you this was a very robust herd 3 to 4 years ago that is now gone!

So the question must be asked, is the DWR wrong on this or is everybody else? If its everybody else, then why? Hunting cows from August to January and the success rate is 4%. How is that possible if there are 10K head of elk on the unit? Ask Dale Litche. He'll say they are hiding in the trees.

Deerlove · Mar 2, 2015

Dang if success rates here 4% for cows, what was the spike%??

Zeke · Mar 2, 2015

Great report and I couldn't agree more with you!
Things must change or the herd will be a distant memory!
Zeke

Buglelk · Mar 2, 2015

What a Joke. Honestly it really makes no sense???

What cool aid are they drinking here. I mean their data can't be correct how in the hell do they come up with their numbers.
I sent in a e-mail and i recieved the standard BS canned response how there are too many elk?

SO dissapointing.

Cam@strawberry · Mar 2, 2015

We have more elk than we know what to do with...all you posers are terrible hunters and never get out of the truck. I can find 400"er's everyday and 450"s about once a month.

The wasatch is the best unit in the state and there are no problems with it, the biologists are genius's!

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters

why · Mar 2, 2015

we have the same problem on the yellowstone open bull unit give out tons of permits for cows cant beg elk to many hunters anything that moves gets flock shot run on trible and die.

fullthrottle · Mar 2, 2015

That's the utah F&G for you, how do we get these dinks outta here? There data this, data that is a frickin joke!

fullthrottle · Mar 2, 2015

Just wait they are going to continue to destroy this elk herd and then once they realize it there going to spin it around and give the naive, gullible hunters the "look how good the deer in the area are doing" must be because of the lack of competition with the elk. Nothing to do with not having a winter for the last 4 years. WOW

deerslayer88 · Mar 2, 2015

Used to see a whole lot of elk up sheep creek and diamond fork, used to see even more around strawberry. Seen a few elk here and there on my hunts but nothing like 4 or 5 years ago.

?If men were angels, no government would be
necessary.? John Adams

G4 · Mar 7, 2015

Berry Blaster. Do you realize there really are idiots out there that believe what you say?

BIGHORNtracks · Mar 7, 2015

I used to archery hunt this unit for elk.
It had been 15 years since I went in there. Until this year.

15 years ago elk numbers in the unit were fantastic.

This year, I went on a limited entry Bull hunt in the unit with a friend.
I also went on a Mule Deer hunt in the unit with my son.

I can say that from what I saw, the elk numbers seem to be down, but maybe they just moved from my old stomping grounds.

However the quality was great.
My friend got a great bull, passed on several, even passed on some that were bigger than the one he shot.

On my sons Deer hunt, we again ran into some very nice bulls.

We did not seem to have any problem finding 330 - 370 bulls, but finding cows, spikes, and general elk numbers was tough. Not that we were ever looking for them.
Why look for spikes and cows on a big bull hunt?

I saw a handful of very nice bulls taken.

I also work with several guys who spike hunt the unit. I must say they are not full throttle hunters, and they rarely get there spike. But some years one or two of them will get an elk.

Like I said, I have not spent a lot of time there in recent years, but I was shocked to discover how few elk we did see, compared to my experiences from years ago.
Maybe its just me. I might be getting old. Elk might be changing and I am not changing and I am not changing with them.
Or, maybe they are really struggling in the unit, being over harvested, ect.

It is stunning the number of limited entry permits they give out.
If you add up all the archery, muzzleloader, and rifle big bull tags, its stunning.
Then you have all the cow and spike hunters in there.
Its a huge number of hunters.
They better have a huge number of elk to go along with the tags.

hunter567 · Mar 9, 2015

Sadly the division does not do a very good job in managing wildlife. The elk on the north and south cache had great numbers 5 years ago. They continued to increase permits. Now the north cache is barely a viable elk unit. to fix the problems the division needs to run independent of license sales. As long as license sales go for salaries we will never have abundant deer, elk or any game populations. One thing that is starting to help is no late cow elk hunts. There is no need to be chasing animals in late November and December and January. It's not good for any animals to be run all over the mountain they need their fat reserves. Good Luck to you down on the Wasatch.

MuleyCreek · Mar 18, 2015

The DWR is wrong! The numbers are down without out a doubt! Dale claims you just have to get off the road. "They are out there you just have to find them." I spent over 80 days on the unit scouting and hunting last year. The biggest herd of cows seen was around 50 head. And very few smaller herds. In areas that have held 4 times that in the last decade. If something doesn't change with the management plan the unit quality will continue to go down hill and the Wasatch will become a glorified otc unit for elk.

nebo12000 · Mar 19, 2015

LAST EDITED ON Mar-19-15 AT 02:58PM (MST)[p]I sit on the Central RAC and have heard the discussions concerning the Wasatch. I for one, would like to know the correct facts on the unit in regards to elk numbers. Sometimes it would make better sense to me to count only the elk that reside (winter or summer) on public grounds. I know-- the State requires all the elk to be counted whether on private or public land and managed according to the elk plan for that unit. I would like to see the counts show what is on public - open to public hunting and what is on private -no public hunting- grounds.
What I keep hearing is that the unit is over population objective- but we never hear how many are on public vs private. they do say that a lot of the elk are congregating on private lands because there is no hunting pressure on them and they stay there-- what would you think is the best way to get this resolved ?

Cam@strawberry · Mar 19, 2015

Nebo, I don't care to argue about numbers, but FYI I have called 15 landowners across the unit to talk about the elk that they have. All report similar things to me, not seeing the elk either. Most are saying they have abnormally few elk. They might be saying things because of a private agenda, but that's what I've learned by asking around...

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters

nebo12000 · Mar 20, 2015

thanks for the info. I sure hope our RAC can get the straight scoop for all parties involved and get the unit managed back to what it should be.

hornguy · Mar 20, 2015

Just wondering who buys all the tags if this unit is as bad as it seems. Not saying the unit is good but lets take a look at the drive for tag numbers?

Igottabigone · Mar 20, 2015

The primary concern is cows being killed. Lots of bulls.

DoubleBuckBonus · Mar 20, 2015

the truth to this problem is that Dale and those he works with are flat out full of horse s*@t! They are complete LIARS! The Wasatch elk herd is suffering, and they couldn't care less.

goofyelk · Mar 20, 2015

I've honestly never seen this big of screw up in game managment!

The fishlake elk and Parker antelope were bad, THIS IS WORSE!

The ability for the Wasatch to recover is not looking good..
Theres just NO recruitment when the cows are GONE...

They will finish killing the few bulls that are left off
in the next year or two and it will be UGLY !!!!!
Saddest/Worst train wreck I've ever witnessed.