cow elk slaugter

[elk_guy]

Just to let all people concerned about the elk on dutton,boulder,monroe they are increasing the cow elk permits. they are opening conrtol tags for cow elk on the dutton unit, that means anybody with any tag can purchase a cow elk permit for $30. As a sportsman who spends almost everyday on these units, we are in trouble if sportsman dont start to speak up. there are 900 cow elk permits issued for the boulder, the unit is managed for 1500 total elk! There are 700 cow elk permits issued for mt.dutton this unit will also have unlimited number of control permits for cow elk! I attended the rac last night in beaver, and the cattleman won again they increased the number of cow elk permits an additional 250 permits for these units. The future of our elk on these units is in jeopardy. Also dont look to the sfw for support, they take the money from the conservation permits, which they make more off of elk than any other species, but yet agree with this slaughter of elk! The sfw member at the rac last night agreed with all recomendations. I am concerned that if we keep letting the cattleman make the decitions of our wildlife all we are going to see on the mountains are cattle!!

 

[elkassassin]

1st Anthro!

2nd Fish Lake!

3rd Wasatch!

Looks like they'll keep goping around in circles eventually destroying all the LE Elk Units!

JUDAS!

F'N!

PRIEST!

WAFJ!





We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!

 

[nebo12000]

According to the DWR- Mt Dutton has population objective of 1500. The 2014 post season population is at 1900. The 700 antlers tags seem a little heavy but not too out of line considering that only around 30% harvest will occur. Maybe its the population objective that you should be trying to get raised... the Monroe population objective is 1800 and the post 2014 population is at 1250 with 160 antlerless permits recommended. The Monroe does not have any "any weapon" spike hunting so hopefully they are making sure there is room for higher bull densities. I agree they over harvested and put spike hunting in place and the unit has suffered. Hopefully they will stick with the plan in place and the unit can once again be truly a premier unit.
The Boulder has a population objective of 1500 and a post 2014 population of 1700. They have recommended 950 antlerless permits. Assuming 600 + or - calves born this spring I can see why the increase. Not sure if the cattlemen are getting more of their way or not but you need to stay involved in the process.

 

[elk_guy]

If you have spent any time on these units you would see the numbers of elk have dropped considerably!! the mountains are over grazed by cattle, sheep. The cattleman benefit nobody!!! The elk benefit sportsman from around the world. Millions of conservation dollars have been raised from elk alone, yet nobody seams to fight for them?

 

[elk_guy]

Also the counts are not correct because of migrating elk! They haven't had a count on elk since 2012, that is the last time they flew. Dutton is also getting control tags!

 

[noluck]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-15 AT 03:51PM (MST)[p] Elk_guy - Ckeck your Pm's
I did stand and question why they were proposing numbers this large and suggested that a more controlled approach should be looked at. I also stood during the comments and did not support this large general increase. The real question you should probably ask, vs attacking SFW is - Where were the sportsman. There was a room full of Ranchers who repeatedly asked to kill more elk. There were a couple sportsmen, and a couple SFW reps.


RMEF, wasn't at the meeting. MDF, wasn't at the meeting.

 

[elk_guy]

At the end one sfw rep did say they supported the recommendations. Your rite there were no sportsmen there? I guess these guys want to wait 20 years to hunt small bulls?

 

[noluck]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-15-15 AT 04:17PM (MST)[p]SFW made some recommendations to the proposed Division plan, the recommendations made by SFW were all in regards to the Buck and Bulls numbers. So the statement was we support the remaining division proposals.

Understand SFW, or anyone for that matter, can't stand and pick apart every little item on the proposals or nothing will get passed. SFW didn't support the increases proposed by the RAC, they supported in general the remainder of the divisions recommendations.

I do understand your frustration that SFW's official statement didn't address the High number of cow tags on the Dutton. However I did stand twice and address it myself, and appreciated you showing me your concern. I spent time reviewing the units I was familiar with and had missed that, prior to your showing me.

Having said that, who was in the room and involved, SFW. Where was everyone else. I'm not sure why you jumped on the internet and bashed SFW.

 

[elk_guy]

I am upset with sfw because I called multiple times and let them know of what was going on. I let them know the situation. They like getting the 46k and 52.5k for them boulder tags but when it comes to fight for their bread n butter they Don't show up? They don't care?

 

[Buglelk]

OUR DWR is F**ked up.

They built up herds and now want to destroy them. Pathetic.

It just makes no sense.

 

[desertpointbrian]

I can personally say from watching the cows on the Wasatch get slaughtered. the aftermath is not going to be pretty the dwr ruined the Wasatch. and for those who think their unit will not be next think again. ponder that with your 12 elk bonus points

 

[elkassassin]

"20 years to Hunt a DINK/PISSCUTTER Bull"

No!

That Never was part of my Plan!

But that's what it's come down to!

I'll go to my Grave with My Points before I WASTE 20+ Years on a GAWD-DAMNED PISSCUTTER Bull!



We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!

 

[goofyelk]

Sad, sad deal going down with Utahs elk herds.....

Personaly seeing what happened on Anthro and Fishlake;
I can tell you (IMO) the Wasatch is, and will be much worse.

Now spreding into south/central units------UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Post number 9 nails it.

 

[Homer]

do you guys ever go to the grocery store and buy meat??...cattlemen benefit no one?.....really??

 

[elkassassin]

>do you guys ever go to
>the grocery store and buy
>meat??...cattlemen benefit no one?.....really??

Notta!

That Meat is too Cheap!

We like to Invest Thousands of Dollars in to just a few Elk/Deer Steaks!








We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!

 

[ForkWest]

Post 9 is ignorant emotion. Post 2 is where you find facts and logical assessment, whether you agree with it or not.

DWR is doing what they are legally bound to do. You want them to do something different? You'll need to change their directive.

And elk_guy, you can thank the cattlemen for the two 99 cent McDoubles you had for lunch today.

 

[desertpointbrian]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-15 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]Is it just me or why is there never any talk on how to keep the elk off the farmers fields. It always seams that kill more elk is the answer. Instead of Higher stiffer fences more patrolling I.e chasing the elk off. My in laws own a cattle ranch and this seams to work just fine on keeping elk out of there fields. Maybe some Catleman are just whiney little b##### . And believe me I mean just some because most are hard working folks. At deams kill the elk is the go to punch to often.

 

[elk_guy]

Im not against all cattleman! I think that it is wrong that a handful that run there cattle on the mountain get to determine elk populations. the cattleman that believe every blade a grass an elk eats is taken away from there cattle. I have friends and family in the cattle business, they aren't complaining about elk numbers! the handful of cattleman that are complaining aren't going affect the cattle market. I am not saying kick them all off but we need to come to common ground. elk revenue a lot of money for this state, people put in for many years for a tag. so when they do finally draw and spend all the money it takes to go hunting they should have a quality hunt.

 

[Cass]

Utah at it's finest....
Anything it can do to produce more revenue.



-Cass

 

[muzz]

Utah doesn't know what the hell there doing.

O--one
B--big
A--ass
M--mistake
A--america

 

[desertpointbrian]

>Utah doesn't know what the hell
>there doing.
>
>O--one
>B--big
>A--ass
>M--mistake
>A--america
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
no they don't the Wasatch unit has large amount of wintering ground. but because a very small portion of landowners in growing big little citys like heber complain about farmland they slaughter a whole unit. instead of thiining out the wolf creek private herd they put a slaughter on anything that resembles a Wasatch elk. I am calling it the pahvant and beaver units are the next money grab for the dwr

 

[why]

you forgot the south slope slaughter on control permits they hunt them for six months out year

 

[goofyelk]

Forkwest,
Post #9 is not all that "ignorant" imo ....

The DWR are the ones making ( coming up with ) the herd estimates.

The Wasatach elk for example, 8,300 plus elk for 2015 estimate.

Now, they base permit numbers from this estimate............

Anyone out there that knows the Wasatch believe there are 8,300 elk on it right now?

I'd say half that!

Useing a 4,000 elk estimate number for issuing permits would change EVERYTHING!

So, It would seem to me the DWR is the root cause of the problem ......JMHO.

 

[elkassassin]

So goofy?

How many Cow Tags there gonna be?

How many Spike Tags there gonna be?

How many LE Any Weapon Tags there gonna be?

How many StickFlipper Tags there gonna be?

How many SmokePole Tags there gonna be?

How many Late Rife Tags there gonna be?

How many Conservation Tags there gonna be?

How many Money Tags there gonna be?

You better keep countin Elk goofy!

The Way I got it figured they should Kill Damn near every Elk left on the Wasatch this Fall!

WAFJ!






We laugh, we cry, we love
Go hard when the going's tough
Push back, come push and shove
Knock us down, we'll get back up again and again
We are Members of the Huntin Crowd!

 

[goofyelk]

Well Bess, There will be more permits than there are elk...

And your right, unless the WB steps in and stops this madness,
There will be dam few elk left after this year..If any.

 

[elk_guy]

sportsman lost today. I do have to take back my statement about the sfw. They stood up and fought for sportsman today. the cattleman run this state I believe. I feel for the guys setting on a lot of elk points in any of the units I mentioned above. Sportsman need to start showing up to the racs to the wildlife board and voicing an opinion the cattle guys are!! We as sportsman need to stand up for what we want, or it will be gone!!!

 

[fullthrottle]

Why do they manage Boulder for such low elk numbers?? That mountain could handle way more than 1500 elk. That number seems ridiculous to me. If we are going to wreck havoc on our elk herds, lets open all units 4 point or better. That should speed up the slaughter, might as well go out with a bang! Utah's wildlife management never ceases to amaze me.

 

[ToddT]

It seems that most manage, almost anywhere in any state, is cyclic. To start with, the population was too low for objectives, so the state dow's protected the herd populations extensively, then the populations get too high, and they start their "slaughter." Then the cycle will repeat itself. The tough part is dealing with all of the emotions and red tape along the way.

I have heard a lot about the money grabbing methods of the SFW and BGF for some time now, and though I do believe that they are bad news for the masses, I don't believe decimating herds of anything are in the best interest for any group. With the exception being the anti- or non-hunting rancher - but I would tend to believe a rancher would be very unusual to be anti-hunting. The reason I say this is, from what I understand, if a rancher owns a significant amount of property, even if it is mostly winter ground, they receive special permits that can then be sold, and usually they aren't cheap. Also in comparison, Colorado is supposed to be home to a higher elk population than any other state that has elk. And from my experiences in Colorado units, this would be difficult to believe. So what I am saying is, I think that a few hunters observations can be inaccurate when speaking of a unit as a whole - Im not saying this is the case in this situation, just that this can happen. If these observations, then we revert to the cyclic situation that can and does take place within wildlife agencies.

I also believe we are in new territory concerning the thought of having too many elk in certain areas, especially so in Utah. As the trend has always been to protect to the fullest extent, with that changing only in the past 10 years or so. I think it will all work itself out eventually, but the problem is, there will most definitely be problems along the way.

Lastly, being from the east - NC - it has always been strange to me to see the state lease public land to individuals for ranching purposes. From what I have been told, these leases for ranching are pennies on the dollar when compared to private leases. So I must wonder, are these leases allotted to one individual, or are they leased with a bidding type process.

Regardless of the situation, I am certain a lot of hunters will be upset along the way, but hopefully, just hopefully, at some point we will all be able to meet some common ground and have a program that benefits more than it hurts.

 

[elk_guy]

>Why do they manage Boulder for
>such low elk numbers?? That
>mountain could handle way more
>than 1500 elk. That number
>seems ridiculous to me. If
>we are going to wreck
>havoc on our elk herds,
>lets open all units 4
>point or better. That should
>speed up the slaughter, might
>as well go out with
>a bang! Utah's wildlife management
>never ceases to amaze me.
>

because the cattleman control it. they feel every blade a grass an elk eats, takes away from there cattle. its not the dwr fault. we as sportsman and women need to unite and go to the racs and wildlife board meeting and fight to up the objectives. the cattleman are the majority showing up thats why it is the way it is.

 

[mmwb]

I'm not in Utah, but in the west, cattlemen's associations tend have a lot of political clout. Wild life management departments tend to come down the list after cattlemen, BLM, forrest service, etc. and are themselves subject to a lot of political whim from legislatures and governors.

Until sportsmen unite and become more effective as a political body, status quo won't change. If there are valid deficits in the methodology of population counts, that can be a point of argument in getting change. If ranchers are complaining about elk damage and want more hunts, then they need to be required to open up land to hunters, without fee. If we increase harvest, compensation for damages should go down.

People can get what ever they want, for better or worse, if they have a loud enough voice and enough votes...

I don't have an opinion on SFW, but if I were them, I'd rethink how they are doing things. If you don't like any of the current sportsman's organizations, start a new one. The ones that get buy in from sportsmen as a whole are the ones that last and make a difference. RMEF is a classic example. Not everyone agrees with everything they do, but they are transparent and pretty much everyone has buy in that they put their money where their mouth is.