What will Utah do?

P

Prism

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Do you guys think Utah will cut tag numbers if we have any substantial winterkill?
 
Yeah they'll cut them, then add the ones they cut to the So. Region and send all of No. Utah here to hunt.
 
I would Love to see General Deer tags cut back, espcially the Northen region.
 
I hope they cut the northern tags, but more like by a 1/4 or less. I believe if you were to cut it by too many that the next winter will just end up killing more.
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Prism,

I am not sure? Seems Utah has problems doing much with the deer. If the DWR tries to cut back people will whine that the division just ruined their lives by messing up the family reunion.

I have thought tags should be cut before this winter. Now more than ever I hope they get some cuts and management ideas going. That may be the one positive from this past winter. Looks like the Opening Day law is one step closer to being gone also.

I cannot wait to see your glassing DVD real soon. :)
 
Wow, it's finally warm in northern Utah!!! Likely the nicest day in months-atleast in Heber.

Hopefully things will stay warm and dry for a week or two. I know I could use a break from this winter.

Gonna be interesting for sure to see what the UT DWR does.

I think it's safe to say there will be some tag cuts in Colorado.....

ktc, You're gonna be an optics gurru:)
 
I'd like to see some tags cut for any areas that have above average winter kill. But then again, I'd like to see the entire statewide Mule Deer plan completely overhauled also, and we know that ain't gonna happen any time soon.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-08 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p] Most likely this fall they will up the deer permits stating,

"Due to the plentiful water year our fawn crop was 157% above normal. This should be another great deer hunt and deer numbers are above average. We would like to remind folks there are still central, north eastern and northern unit deer permits available, pick one up at your local walmart"



---------------------------------------
"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
LETS CUT EM SOME!!!

BUT DON'T CUT THE NORTHERN REGION BY 40% & ADD 40% TO THE NORTHEASTERN REGION!!!

EVERYTIME I THINK ABOUT THIS I THINK ABOUT WHEN THEY CLOSED THE BOOK CLIFFS!!!

THEN THEM 40,000 HUNTERS WENT TO DIFFERENT AREAS/REGIONS/UNITS & HAMMERED WHAT WAS ALREADY IN PISS POOR SHAPE THE FOLLOWING YEARS!!!

WASN'T THAT JUST SMART???

AND THEN TO THINK THEY HUNTED THE BOOK CLIFFS IN TO DECIMATION SO FAR IT HAD TO BE CLOSED???

THAT STILL BLOWS MY MIND!!!

LETS NOT DO ANYMORE STUPID $HIT!!!

IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK???





THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
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THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
LOL Wayne!!!

GOOD MEETING YOU EYE TO EYE YESTERDAY!!!

EVERY YEAR RIGHT BEFORE SEASON THEY POST IT IN OUR LOCAL NEWSPAPER HOW GOOD THE GENERAL DEER HUNT IS GONNA BE!!!

WHEN IS THEIR REPORT GONNA BE ACCURATE???

EVERYBODY FLOCKS IN TO BUY THE REMAINING NE REGION PERMITS AFTER THE NEWSPAPER COMES OUT!!!

THEN THEY GO HOME WITH A BAD TASTE IN THEIR MOUTHES!!!

THEY KEEP SELLING OUT THOUGH!!!

MAKES ME WONDER IF THEY AIN'T SELLING THE LAST FEW THOUSAND PERMITS AT HALF PRICE???



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!
47654abd5a8fd79a.jpg


469ff2b8110d7f4e.jpg


THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!
 
It would be nice if the DWR could figure some things out, here in Cache Valley we don't have winter range so the deer come into town and eat bushes and whatnot.......My question is why can't we set up some permanent feeding stations to compensate for the loss of winter range? And feed yearly, regardless of the snow level?

Secondly, we have some of the premier deer hunting areas in the west. Paunsagant, Henrys, Vernon, etc....If the state can develop these areas why not more of the state?

What would happen if they closed the northern region for 3 years? Sure some people would be pissed but I highly doubt they are the ones spending their free time feeding during the winter.

We are the biggest "problem" the deer have right now. If you see anyone chasing deer, whether they are wearing snow camo or riding a snowmobile, CALL THEM IN IMEDIATELY. Someone made the comment we need to police ourselves, AMEN to that. Maybe if we are helping the DWR more they will listen?
 
I have to laugh at the thought of cutting tags. Has is not been made obvious that the health of deer herd has nothing to do with the deer managment. I has to depend on the DWR budget and where they are going to get money other that the sell of general deer permits! It would be nice if they cut tags but it will not happen in any numbers to affect anything, it just won't. They are a business and they will make every excess and lie to keep that cash flow coming in.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-08 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]A month too late and several dollars short if you ask me. We should have been feeding them a month ago. Almost every deer I've seen is struggling and now the elk are even starting to look worn out.

This is one of those times you figure out if the DWR is concerned about the wildlife or just the revenue.

Prism - did you ever find out if the MDF stepped up? Also, what has ever happened about that guy in Heber/Midway that threatened lawsuit over feeding the deer?

Do me a favor and get his address and post it!}>


It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com
 
Jim,

Yes the MDF is doing what they can around here.

Again, my thanks to both the MDF and SFW for doing what they can for our deer and elk.

Not sure what came about with the sue happy dude. Hopefully he doesn't wrap his new beamer, lexus, or mercedes around a deer on his way to the slopes or airport.......

I swear we're being taken over by %^#% heads around here one house and subdivision at a time......
 
I didn't do a good job with my last post. I didn't mean they should only cut the Northern Unit tag numbers. I didn't mention the other regions because I am not sure how the herds are doing there. It would be ridiculous to cut tags from one region and add them to another.
 
The UT statewide mule deer plan is up for review and renewal this year. This is your chance to make significant changes. The plan will go into effect for 5 years, and it is more difficult to make major changes once a plan is implemented. If you really want to see changes you should get involved and get your input heard. Probably the most effective way to do that is as a part of one of the conservation organizations that will be heavily involved (SFW, MDF) in changes to the current plan. But, if you don't like the ideas proposed by those orgs, you can form your own group. Look at the existing plan, revise it, or rewrite it, submit your ideas to the RAC's and the Wildlife Board. Get supporters to write letters and show up to the meetings. The average sportsman has more power than they think, if they are willing to put in the work and the time. You have to remember that the DWR works for YOU, and these are YOUR deer.

Dax
 
Prism, i don't know how the draw works in UT but the draw is probably complete before they know what the damages are. That is why it makes since to have the draw start in April like CO.The units have been flown and tags alloted based on how the deer came thru the winter and the hunting seasons.

Mike
 
I have gone to RAC meetings for years and the DWR will do what they want and what they want is money. SFW and MDF can sway them sometimes, however they are not very willing to bite the hand that feeds. Without the 200 expo and all of the auction tags sold these organizations would have little money or support from big lenders. Where do those tags come from? The DWR! Money talks and bull$hit walks and that is just the way it is. Until the state starts bugeting more money to the DWR this is the way it will be.
 
our hunting units are too big.i dont think cutting tags in whole units will work as well as we would like.maybe they could close small areas that got hit hard.although any type of restraint will help,we need smaller units to help us manage.i believe they will change to 30smaller units after this year when the current management plan is up
 
AMEN! on cutting the unit size down!

and ya they will do a fawn count and the tags will be less.

it is clear that the current units are to big to manage properly,
i'm not saying go to wyoming sizes, but they could all be cut manageable pieces.

thats 1st
then do a REAL deer count.
next issue tags accordingly.
if we have a bad drought less tags
if we have a sub artic winter less tags
mild winter, wet summer. more tags


how hard is that?
 
Nope. Utah is in this for the money, period. They didn't cut back numbers of tags during all the drought years, and they're not going to do it for the tough winter.........

A few years ago I decided to help the Utah deer herds myself by not buying a tag until the nunbers starting coming back up in southern Utah. So, in spite of the terrible job they are doing about management (or doing a good job at mismanagement, however you want to slice it), at least SOMEONE will be doing something to help the deer out albiet at my own expense in doing so....
 
>Nope. Utah is in this for
>the money, period. They didn't
>cut back numbers of tags
>during all the drought years,
>and they're not going to
>do it for the tough
>winter.........
>
>


Sorry but i think your wrong, every year for the past 7 years the central region got less and less tags, probably close to 50% fewer from then to now. due to a few things, but drought being the #1 reson.

they also started the 5 day rifle hunt, this way they can still issue more tags to more hunters, but take fewer deer.(not sure how that worked out though)

they can cut back the #'s even more. and just up the prices again. then they stay even.
 
Overall tag numbers have not been cut since 93 when they capped it at 97000. They have tried to take off the 5 day hunt the last 2 years and the wildlife board has kept it. They are concerned about the number of days in the field. Yet again another issue to worry about besides the well being of the deer herd.

Money is the issue as much as some people want to bury their head about it. The DWR has said they are a business first and that is how they run it. Most businesses I know are all about making the most money, so why would the DWR be any different. Some may want to believe they work for us but that is just not true!
 
look at your last 2 proclamations,
black and white, the #'s have come down every year in central.
 
Guys, I may stand corrected at least somewhat, as I should've clarified my comments. I was and can only speak about the area I've hunted and my in-laws live (Southern; Escalante/Boulder/Panguich). The animals have not been there the past 8 years but the DWR continues to sell tags like nobody's business.
 
>Guys, I may stand corrected at
>least somewhat, as I should've
>clarified my comments. I was
>and can only speak about
>the area I've hunted and
>my in-laws live (Southern; Escalante/Boulder/Panguich).
>The animals have not been
>there the past 8 years
>but the DWR continues to
>sell tags like nobody's business.
>

I would argue that, I have bowhunted the Southern region for the last 20 years and although deer herds are no where near where they were 20 years ago the are better than they have been in several years. I have had more sucsess the last three years than the 17 previous ones and part of that is due to better deer numbers. I feel the five day rifle hunt is working in the Southern region. I do agree about the North and if there is a lot of winter kill then tags should be reduced and not just shifted to another region.
 
I believe they will make a good decision based on the situation.

Most of the state is having a normal winter and alot of the state still has winter range for the animals. There may be some tag cuts in the northern units but the decision will be based on sound science, at least until the RAC's and the SFW get involved, then it will be anyone's guess.
 
>look at your last 2 proclamations,
>
>black and white, the #'s have
>come down every year in
>central.


I hesitate to jump in, bc I don't know if this is the case for sure or not, but I think tags in Utah are 97,000 each year, and have been that way for a number of years. The decline in tag #s in the proc is due to more tags going to archery, increases in muzz hunters, and increases in the # of dedicated hunters hunting each region. There have not been tag cuts to my knowledge.

Any truth to the rumor that the state will be dissected into smaller, more manageable units, with the new plan?
 
You are correct in the fact that the tags are at 97000 just the same as they have been since 93. That is the problem the black and white is not always the way it looks. I may sound negative or pesimistic but I would just say I am a realist. The truth is the herd is in trouble and we are all scared that the DWR will respond the way they have in the past and that is not in the best interest of the deer herd.
 
I really hope they do, but I really doubt they will. We all know it's all about the green here in Utah, and less tags = less $$$. I haven't seen them come through in the past when we've had hard winters, so I doubt we will see it this year. Probably just shorten the seasons up north to a 5 day general hunt, like they've done down south. That's just my guess.
 
As much as I believe the DWR does a terrible job of managing the herds at least around the Escalante/Boulder area of Utah, I'll give them this much; This is the first year where I'm not even bothering to apply for a point, much less a tag. Reason; Now, instead of simply charging $5 for a pref point for species, they require that you buy a license. And if you don't draw a tag, you don't get a refund on the license. I guess that's a great way to create new revenue, problem is, you need suckers to fall for that scheme.......Bad, bad deal and yep, it's all about $$$ it sure seems........and I used to think it was all about wildlife.
 
The tags have been cut in the N.E. & Central the last 2 years or possibly 3 (I can't remember for sure) by 1000 in each unit. The DWR tried to increase them in both units but the sportsmen and RACs in those units thought better of it and the Board agreed.
You guys can cry all you want but as long as all the tags (archery, any weapon, MZ, dedicated) continue to sell out the DWR has no reason to lower tags or change the management strategy.
I do believe that if enough sportsmen show up and voice concern over winterkill at this springs RACs we can get tag numbers cut wether the DWR wants it or not.
I wonder how many concerned deer hunters will be willing to turn their tags back in this summer if their area has suffered from high winterkill?
 
HAHA
Ya right!

asking a utah trophy hunter to turn in his central tag!

he will go and kill his spike or two point and cry to everyone about how " the deer #'s seem low this year "
 
Do you fish? Do hunt water fowl, upland game, anything else? If you do then it's not a big deal. If you don't then quit whining spend the 30 bucks. Even with having to buy a liscence it is still alot less to apply for a tag in Utah then it is in any other state.

Or do you just the deer tag to go out with your family sit in camp and get drunk?
 
"Or do you just GET the deer tag to go out with your family sit in camp and get drunk?"

isn't that the definition of the UTAH general rifle hunt?
 
The division just needs to cut tags and piss the recreationalists off. Utards cannot police themselves. Give them a tag, an orange vest, and a rifle, and stuff is gonna die! All kinds of stuff! If they cannot find a buck deer they will kill moose, elk, rabbits, rocks, and sometimes other people.;-)
 
I didn't read every post so forgive me if I repeat something.
I think some of you are underestimating the survival instincts of these animals. Yes, there has been winter kill. Yes, we got more snow than usual up north in utah. The deer herd will get run through by mother nature, the weak and the young will lose the fight. This process happens year after year. This year a few more than usual will lose the fight against mother nature, however the herds will eventually rebound like they always have and if we are smart, we will cherish the opportunity to go out and hunt these respectable creatures in their habitat each year before that privilage is gone due to popularity of the sport. I live along the wasatch front in N.Utah. I spotted a 6 point bull elk half way up the mountain above davis county. Yes, He was half way up the mountain just hanging out. I saw plenty of tracks and wildlife on the south facing slopes suggesting that they are surviving. I think we forget that these deer/elk have an instinct for survival and possess the ability to survive harsh weather conditions as long as they are in good health. The animals have had it easy for many years and went into this winter in good health. Nature has its way of separating the weak from the strong as we have seen demonstrated to us this year. Far more animals get killed by cars than by winter kill. Why are we not more concerned about that issue? And if we are then why hasn't the DWR cut tags for that reason?? Just my opinion.
 
I agree with you, the critters can figure things out on their own for the most part. I have been pushing to have permanent feeding stations to keep the deer from getting hit by cars. I believe some very simply management strategies would greatly help our herds. We have been feeding here and have only seen one fawn die, so hopefully the weather will calm down and the animals will be able to get through till stuff starts to grow again.
 

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