other thoughts

[basinboy]

After all of the comments on the other thread I thought I could share a few comments. Some of you will never read all of this because it will be long and you have already formed an opinion of me. I would ask the moderaters to let this go just like my previous post. First of all I am a hunter and some of the comments I make are going to touch a nerve with hunters but they are not made without substantial thought. I will break it out by subjects to respond o specific topics:

"He works for a developer."

When I hear this it is always easy to put blame on a group in a profession of people for all the wrong others see in the world. In this respect it is decreasing deer or elk herds. I would bet that everyone on this site are a beneficiary of land development. If you drive on roads, live in houses shop at stores I could go on forever. If you are willing to go get neutered and stop having familys you can stop reading and skip this subject. The point I would like to make is responsible land development. Land development is going to happen and Traverse Mountain is a the perfect area to look at. When the guys I work for went out and brought Cabelas to Lehi I thought that there might be some resentment from hunting groups in that it would get built on the property that we have been dicussing on the other thread. ( if you go to Cabels in Lehi there are are deer and elk within 100 feet as I write this email. Instead they got there biggest grand opening and their number one store). Kind of Ironic?? I work by and eat lunch there quite often. They are the second largest draw to the state second only to the mormon church. No boycot just record numbers. I have gone to shed fest there the last two years and enjoyed it. So if we are going to develop ground does that meen we should be totaly mindless to the animals that winter there? I have talked to the biologist who works this area and he states there's a lot more summer range for biggame than the winter range can support. So even though this land will mostly be developed over the next 15 years why not try to take the big game into consideration? Should we feed elk and make a long term commitment. Do you let hunters kill them all so its not on the news. I do not know the answers but stopping the land from being developed is not going to happen. I know many people who hunt the Wasatch unit and have success and see the benefit of trying to effect the outcome. Traverse Mountain is the last place to do this and there are parts of the mountain that are undevelopable that could be set aside and improved to create winter food sources for these animals. I have read conservation agreements from all of the groups who are envolved in this process and can see one day some of this ground getting set aside. Or it may get held privatly for the same purpase. This is a huge subject and could easily go on for pages but I would discuss this with anyone in a personal setting.


" His Motives are Self Serving "

Of course they are!!! So is anyone who goes out and gets a land lease or buys land, buys a landowner tag or hires a guide to kill a animal. We all have different objectives when we wake up each day and I doubt mine are much different then most of the people on this site. You would probly run into me at a hunting show and we could bs for hours.
This one gets touchy. I would say every one everyone on this site would like to hang a big buck or bull or a bird on the wall. Do you know how appalling this can be to some people? I can hear it know "We dont care " "They can stick it up there %^&%$" "Just gut shoot em " I can uderstand this but it is a fact of life that hunting is for the most part a form of recreation. Sure we eat the meat and enjoy and find ways to justify it. And I believe I have a write to hunt. I feel the same way about what I was doing on Sunday. You probly feel the same way about things you like doing. What may be self serving and make me a ass to some- other people don't care about. I hate peaple who speed and drive subaru cars or how about people who spend thousands of dollors to end the life of a animal and hang his head on the wall. If they did not kill him we could pick up his sheds for years. Other people could hike and look at him or photograph the animal. There is no right answer to this, only our own values and interests and motives guide us. If you want a shed season speak up same if you don't. If you want more mature deer change the current regs and start managing the entire state to do this. I would rather be able to get both my misguided son and myself a tag and hunt together and enjoy the experience for what it is. He shot his first buck this year on a north eastern tag and we still talk about it almost every day. If I knew how to post a pic I would. To put it in a simple form DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS and fight for what you believe in.

"Does the land owner know what he is doing"

They pay me to do it. I talk to them about big-game on a regular basis . They are not hunters but have been very helpful and my biggest supporters. They know I am a shed nut. Why do banks hire robbers to help solve bank robberies. I have no regrets in this regard.

"$500,000.00 for a few sheds"

This money has been spent to secure the property with other goals in mind. But I can say that it is 5 to 1 as far as who I have had cited for trespassing over the years. 5 being the guys with mule deer and elk stickers in there windows and 1 being the guys on a dirt bike or kids looking for a place to have a beer.
This to me as a hunter is a public image problem and is why hunters are being turned away more and more from private land.


"He is killing deer"

Every One on this site ate this up!! I can say without a doubt what kills the most deer and elk on Traverse Mountain. It is not poachers, coyotes, lions or starvation. I can tell you the months when they will die and have photos to prove it just don't know how to post them. They need to get a drink of water! This kills the most. They go to get a drink and we hit them with our cars. It starts in Auguest and does not end until the snow flys and sticks. It took me a few years to figure this out. We have installed troughs and after a little work have figured out what will make them drink from them. The elk don't care but the deer seem to be a little more sensitive. Coyotes are number 2 and then old fences. I know there are those of you who will disagree and I agree to disagree.

This one is for Hawkeye and Robinland


If you had kids and I hope you do and your son had just shot a deer and when you pulled up some guy was telling your kid what he was doing was wrong what would you do??? I got mad. All of you should think about this. I have already said I was wrong to loose my temper. I will apolgize for the temper but nothing else. I have spoke to my son about this and he understands and will learn from this. Good Lesson


Hyprocrisy:

The same guys who are lighting me up on this are talking about brown sheds on other threads. Maybe there is no snow there but there are huge slopes on Traverse Mountain with no snow. There are pictures on the cover of this shed video of guys standing in snow. I bring this up not to judge but only as a talking point. Every fall hunters chase deer and elk into the ground in snow and mud. It could be said that this depletes there energy reserves going into winter?? Some of the best hunting happens after it snows and the animals start to move. I would like Awhollatabull,Huntsannorra,Chloride or any else who has a legitamate reason that is not driven by the desire to kill animals to answer this one.Do you quit hunting if it snows. NO one does because it does not serve there own personnel objectives. ONCE AGAIN DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.
The reason I state names is you guys are the ones who will take the time to read this. Bobcat I will call you I do have family in the basin and I can't wait to talk to some-one famous from Altamont.

Poaching


This One is in defense of all us UTARDS If you think poaching stops because you cross some non existent line you are living a pipe dream. I could not beleive whats happening here. I would bet it happens other places.


Last Thougtht. I have no regrets with what I have done. I will glady meet, talk on the phone accept advice that is not unjustlie motivated from peaple who have a solid viewpoint but if you just want to be a jerk save-it I will try and do the same. AS for my son He is a great kid and we will share many more days doing the things we love doing with the rest of my family. I hope you do the same.


Karl Karren

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

That post was too long for me to read...........Glad you take the time to run everyone off the private ground in order to secure your "privilage to bump deer each day with the family just to collect some brown bone!!

Suggestion #1

You should try starving yourself and then go out and run through knee deep snow for a few days and see how long you survive.

Suggestion #2

Stay in your truck and leave the deer/animals alone until the spring thaw. If you don't like suggestion #2, then see sugggestion #1

 

[JakeH]

Dude, first off let me say I dont know where traverse Mtn is nor will I probly ever know where it is.

Now the reason you have caught so much flac on here is the fact that you are chaseing the deer, witch you addmited to.

You do not have to go pick up those sheds right now if you are there everyday as you say, you should be able to monitor and keep people off the land from the roads.

It sounds like you do alot of good on this place, but to come on here and defend your self for this is stupid.

You have to be able to see the difference in chaseing deer now and doing it during hunting season, if you cant then we will just have to disagree.

I dont have kids but if I saw a youth doing something wrong I do belive I would confront them, just the way robiland and hawkeye did.

Also you and your family dont come off well comeing on here and bashing us.

Thats my take on the situation.




Jake Huber. MM Member since 1999.

 

[shotgunjim]

You needed to talk to a biologist to figure out that there's a lot more summer range than winter range?

You still don't get it. You addressed issues that nobody cares about. The only issue we care about is you and your family running and stressing out deer that are already stressed enough. Do you still believe that you and your family running deer in deep snow will have no negative effect on them? Address that question.

If shed hunters like yourself don't have negative effects on deer then why did the DWR make a shed season for the northern region? Soon to be state wide because of people like you.

 

[yb]

>"Does the land owner know what he is doing"

>They pay me to do it. I talk to them about big-game on a >regular basis . They are not hunters but have been very >helpful and my biggest supporters. They know I am a shed nut. >Why do banks hire robbers to help solve bank robberies. I have >no regrets in this regard.



So your landowners are OK with you harrasing the deer to possible injury or death just because you are a shed nut? And they pay you to do all of that. Plus you probably sale the sheds on ebay right?

 

[bobcatbess]

AM I ON AUTO DELETE???

I JUST MADE A POST & IT DISTAPEARED!!!

IT NEVER EVEN WAS POSTED???

I BELIEVE I WOULD OF BEEN # 5???

Brow,YOU KNOW WHATS GOING ON WITH THE SERVER???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

AND NO!!!

I DIDN'T THREATEN TO GUT SHOOT KRAZY KARL EITHER!!!

SOMETHING WEIRD GOING ON???

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[bobcatbess]

KRAZY KARL!!!

I'LL TRY THIS AGAIN!!!

THE REASON I ASKED IF YOU HAD ANY RELATES OUT THIS WAY IS BECAUSE I KNOW A FEW KARRENS & THEY SEEM TO BE DECENT PEOPLE!!!

I NEVER THRASHED YOU ON THE FIRST TWO POSTS I MADE ON THAT OTHER THREAD!!!

BUT I GUESS YOU STILL DIDN'T LIKE IT???

THIS SHED HUNTING IS OUT OF HAND!!!

ESPECIALLY FOR A FEW PISSCUTTER SHEDS!!!

THIS AIN'T THE TIME NOR THE YEAR TO BE PUSHING DEER AROUND!!!

I HOPE SOMETHING IS LEARNED FROM THIS???

I FIGURED Zigga's POST MIGHT OF BOTHERED YOU MORE THAN MINE???

I DON'T HIDE BEHIND MY PUTER & I'M NOT FAMOUS EITHER!!!



THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[nmwapiti]

Basin Boy,

You just don't get it.........
If these deer could talk, they would probably say something along these lines:
Bucks: Hey, my ladies are all pregnant and we would really appreciate it if you didn't make us get up and run away in this really deep snow. Its been a rough winter and we are low on food and energy. Would you mind if you gave us some room so you don't upset the little ladies and the buns in the oven? You seem like a nice family man, you wouldn't want us pushing you and your family around if you were expecting, wasting all your energy when you need to save it for the rest of the winter would you? Come spring time, we will be moving higher and the place is yours. I appreciate you looking out for us from all the other humans wanting to come in here, but you don't tread any lighter than them. Maybe you could watch the place from a distance? Thanks man.
Does: Honey, who's at the door? tell them to get the H##L out of here! Close the door, your letting a draft in here! It's bad enough I'm pregnant, we have no food and we have to get up and run every time somone one comes around here! Can't these people watch us with those binoculars they use to watch us in the fall? What is so interesting about us anyway?

Your logic is twisted dude...Damn trespassers are going to get in here either way so it mine as well be my family that pressures these deer at there most vulnerable time and gets these antlers. That'll teach em..... And some other developer will build a mega mall if my company doesn't so it mine as well be my company that does it. No wonder this world is so messed up..... Greed.............

 

[browtine]

First off, I havent deleted any posts. And yes, I read the entire post.

Secondly, Karl, thanks for explaining your situation and being so open in your responses. You have a unique situation where there is alot of envy and on lookers. I can say that I wish I had access to that property.. plain and simple.. I would be lying if I said I didn't. I would also be trying to keep people out. Like you said in your previous post, who wouldn't. I applaud your honesty.

You make a point about the tresspassers. One could also argue that those people are trying to get in and out "fast" and could ultimately spook the deer even more... I know from my own experience that people have been tresspassing on that property for a while and there is always one goal, "Brown Gold". Either on the head, or off. I think the point being made is just trying to get everyone to see the big picture.

The nuts and bolts of this issue is plain and simple. If Karl doesn't pick up the sheds, someone else will. Its the honest guy that will always get screwed.

I will ask everyone this. Do you think that even if a shed law was passin in the central region, people would stay off that property and no one woud tresspass? ONLY THE HONEST GUY WILL LIVE BY THE LAW. And the honest guys have not been the people Karl has called on.

I'm not condoning pushing deer. Not at all, but the issue falls back on laws and regulations and who will follow them. I would bet money that if NO ONE tresspassed on that property, Karl wouldn't pick up sheds until spring..

Later, Brandon

 

[tageater]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-08 AT 05:47PM (MST)[p]
Ok KARL----

No one really has a problem with you doing you job, in fact we appreciate you out "protecting the herds" from all others and the work you've done with the poachers! Thank you. But from what we are hearing , you not making apologies for harassing the deer, i can only call it one way. You've put yourself and what you believe in before the welfare of the deer. which is just as good to me as you not being out there in the first place. to simplify: you run everyone else out before they get to harass the deer that you are going to go harass! You are the only one harassing!

$500,000 is the cost that the company has paid to secure your shed hunting site. no other way about that. I hear you've got it posted up real good, so no one should get confused they're about to walk into the Karrens private shed property!

If i did have a son, he'd not be out shed hunting now! he'd have been taught that harassing the deer is WRONG!

I love to find sheds, i'm not a hypocrit, i wait til may. i dont find a lot, but i know that i am not out harassing the deer. so i feel ok about telling you that i think you are in the wrong.

I honestly believe that you are not going to change reguardless of what you see or hear from any of us, but there is always the hope that you will see that may be you really dont have to be out doing what you've been doing, at this time of year. If this whole thing had happened in april, or even March(weather dependant) there wouldn't be this out cry!

***and there is no jealousy from me for not getting to come out to your little slice of heaven.

if there was a shed law in place for the central region, you'd find out pretty quick who is law abiding, and we could have this thread every other week in the off season! and pictures, and stories.....pass the damn law! AGDMF piece of bone has ya'll so riled up......for hell sake, get a girlfriend

 

[shotgunjim]

I wouldn't take that bet.

The nuts and bolts of this issue is Karl stressing out deer during a harsh winter. Not being the first scavenger to get to the "Brown Gold".

Karl, Let us know how many dead fawns and aborted fetuses you find while you're out there racing the other scavengers to the "Brown Gold".

 

[BowHuntr]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-08 AT 06:03PM (MST)[p]Basinboy you could go on and on, but at the end of the day NOTHING justifies your actions. You're shooting yourself in the hip and making yourself look like an idiot by trying to justify yourself.

" Last Thougtht. I have no regrets with what I have done."

That pretty much sums you up right there. It's unfortunate that we have people like you who posess this kind of mentality and ruin it for everyone.

One more thing...if you are as influential of a person as you claim to be, maybe you should take that into consideration and lead by example.

 

[BuzzH]

Wow, what a lame argument:

The nuts and bolts of this issue is plain and simple. If Karl doesn't pick up the sheds, someone else will. Its the honest guy that will always get screwed.

What? If he's out there protecting the mule deer as much as he claims to be, how could he get screwed out of the sheds? So, what we all should do is just not follow any laws because being honest isnt the way to "win"? WTF kind of whacked out logic is that?

I will ask everyone this. Do you think that even if a shed law was passin in the central region, people would stay off that property and no one woud tresspass? ONLY THE HONEST GUY WILL LIVE BY THE LAW. And the honest guys have not been the people Karl has called on.

Warped logic again. So, let me get this right...for the second time. Lets just all be dishonest so we can get what we want? So, if someone elses chooses to poach, I should poach first so I win? Hell yeah if a shed law was passed people would stay off the hill, in particular such a high profile one. When, not if, a shed season is passed it will be because of people like this. You can call your buddy Karl and thank him when a law is passed, its jacka$$ moves like his that create a need for laws. You cant fix stupid, so we need laws.


I'm not condoning pushing deer. Not at all, but the issue falls back on laws and regulations and who will follow them.

Yes, you are condoning pushing deer, because thats exactly what apparently happened as per Karls own story. The issue is not whether or not people will follow the law. What a law WOULD do is hold idiots like the Karls of the world accountable (via fines, forfeitures of licenses, etc.), from harrassing deer looking for a stupid hunk of antler.

Browtine, most of the time you seem like a reasonable person...but man, you're out in left field on this one. You dont excuse damage to the resource because some people choose to be dishonest. You crack down big-time on the idiots who dont follow the laws and use correct judgement. Dont punish the deer because someone might trespass.

 

[ClorideRUS]

Mr. Karren, based on what I've read you and your family were harassing deer at the worst possible time of the year. Then you try to justify your actions with the most ridiculous reasons I have ever heard. You, in my opinion are the classic example of the self serving knot heads that will eventually destroy what little is left of a true sportsman?s opportunity in this state. I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you because you are so wrong you're not worth it.

I base my opinion on your continued goofy comments on this forum.

RUS

 

[Packout]

Browtine, I couldn't agree more! That is one of the best posts I have read on MM in years.

I don't know Karl, don't really care what he does on his property (leased, owned or cared for). That land is gone. It was gone 14 years ago when Micron increased the property value. It was gone because the short-sighted beaurocarts shot down our proposal for the public to purchase Traverse Ridge from Kenny Beck in the early 90s. It is gone because everyone wants to whine about a guy picking up sheds, yet NO ONE will show up at the Draper or Lehi City Councils to fight the developement or for inclusion of designated winter range and migration corridors. Argue and bicker on the Net if it makes you feel better, but it does nothing to help the situations. Stop and buy crap at Cabela's then go look at the meager deer herd left before they are gone. But don't worry, everyone will still be able to buy their hunting videos from Cabela's.

As owners of range wintering deer located within 5 miles of this area, I can say that trespassing shed hunters pushing deer (and regular hunters) is far higher than most could ever understand.

 

[bobcatbess]

HEY Brow!!!

I'M NOT QUESTIONING THE MODS!!!

BUT I WAS TOASTED BEFORE POSTED!!!

NOT EVEN BADGEBOY IS THAT QUICK!!!

I THINK MAYBE A SERVER ABOUT TO MELT DOWN???

NOT A BIG DEAL!!!

I NEVER THREATENED ANYBODY IN THE TOASTED POST ANYWAY!!!

THIS IS MY NEW GUN,YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,YOU'LL LIKE IT A HELL OF A LOT LESS WHEN IT HITS ITS DESTINATION!!!

THE ONLY bobcat THAT KNOWS ALOT OF YOU HAVE HAD THIS IMAGE IN YOUR PEA BRAIN BUT DUE TO POOR SHOOTING TACTICS I'M STILL KICKIN!!!

 

[UTodd]

Packout you hit the nail on the head with the fact that once the land is sold it is out of our hands as sportsmen. Unless you have a wildlife friendly developer- there will be no corridors of safety or food friendly areas in the development.

I remember reading or hearing about a study a few years back where the DWR radio tracked animals that migrated all the way from the Uintahs to winter at the point of the mountain. Pretty important winter range that now houses Mercedes and Mansions.

I am not complaining- just agreeing with Packout and feeling frustrated I did not do more to to oppose this kind of development.

 

[tageater]

If the concensus is that that land is gone anyway, i take back everything that i have said in previous post, (because i was misstakenly thinking that the deer hadn't heard about it not being usable land any more) and hope that the deer and elk that are using this land die quickly.

 

[SwitchbackMuley]

Mister, you are an ignorant fellow. One doesn't need too much common sense to understand the stress those deer are under. I don't think there was one thing in that post that was accurate whatsoever- except the fact that we all benefit from development. And YES we do, however there is a great deal of difference between development and over-development and overdevelopment is the situation at hand, and it is extremely irresponsible at that!!! You really don't get it, do you??

 

[325wsm]

The sad thing is the trespassing thing happens everywhere, my family owns 12000 acres in sanpete county half of which is prime winter range, we do not shed hunt or do anything on the property till about the first of april, but we cant keep the trespassers off of it eithter, we live to far away to do a daily patrol around the area, but damn near everytime I go out there I catch somebody on there picking up sheds. We even posted the area but that didnt seem to help any either. We personally dont care if people pick up the sheds, we just wish they would wait till the snow melts off and the animals recover a little.

 

[gb2hunt]

I Had 2 Post Removed On This Post.Just Like They Did Not Remove Post For Trophy Chasers With Dan Yeh Right Gordon Barr

 

[UTodd]

Tageater...I was certainly not suggesting that the land is gone- just that the control of the land is gone. Unless the developer has the forsight to include some safe zones or corridors for the animals- they get to adapt to the playgrounds and parking lots.

 

[basinboy]

Zigga this one is for you. I have been reading posts on this site for quite awhile. Are you not the outdoors girlfriend guy. I seem to remember something about beeing a good christian if I get it wrong I am sure you will let me know. You are the only who has got through with a gut shot post. There are others would surely fill the same way. When you go to your good christian church ask the preacher if it is okay to gut shoot anyone who disagrees with you??? I think most goood christians get together on Sunday so let me Know the answer on Sunday. My wife refuses to pack all of my sheds so I would also like to recruit your girlfriend If she disagrees just gut shoot her it will solve all your problem Taxes to high gut shoot the city council. Speeding and get a ticket just shoot the cop another problem solved. I could go on all night.....
Life has gotten a little to serious lately so I get to have a little fun too. BasinBoy

 

[browtine]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-08 AT 07:10PM (MST)[p]"Browtine, most of the time you seem like a reasonable person...but man, you're out in left field on this one. You dont excuse damage to the resource because some people choose to be dishonest. You crack down big-time on the idiots who dont follow the laws and use correct judgement. Dont punish the deer because someone might trespass."

Buzz,

I can agree to disagree... Putting words in my mouth is a bit of a jolt but to each there own. I happened to grow up less then 5 minutes from this place... I have actually helped DWR in investigating some of the incidents Karl has said. My only issue was a poacher is a poacher. How can you sit there and tell me that if no one ever tresspassed there, the deer would be pushed.. Please answer that.. isnt that your ultimate arguement? Pushing deer?


*edit*
I never said I was for a shed law... I am just stating facts about this area... take it or leave it.

Later, Brandon

 

[huntsonora]

>
>
> Zigga this
>one is for you. I
>have been reading posts on
>this site for quite awhile.
>Are you not the outdoors
>girlfriend guy. I seem to
>remember something about beeing a
>good christian if I get
>it wrong I am sure
>you will let me know.
>You are the only who
>has got through with a
>gut shot post. There are
>others would surely fill the
>same way. When you go
>to your good christian church
>ask the preacher if it
>is okay to gut shoot
>anyone who disagrees with you???
>I think most goood christians
>get together on Sunday so
>let me Know the answer
>on Sunday. My wife refuses
>to pack all of my
>sheds so I would also
>like to recruit your girlfriend
>If she disagrees just gut
>shoot her it will solve
>all your problem Taxes to
>high gut shoot the city
>council. Speeding and get a
>ticket just shoot the cop
>another problem solved. I could
>go on all night.....
>Life has gotten a little to
>serious lately so I get
>to have a little fun
>too.
>
>BasinBoy
>
>
>

Strike 13, your thinking of Zim...

DL

 

[Zigga]

No I don't have an outdoors girlfriend.......my wife would kill me.

Did you take the day off to write this stuff up? I couldn't read it all because it started out as pointless drivle. You trying to justify running deer during the worst part of winter is obsurd and you know it. The property may be private but the animals belong to the state. Thanks to people like you a law should be enacted...or is it already? I don't need to explain the gut shot comment so I won't.

 

[tageater]

It was packout that said the land was gone. I find myself being upset by the fact that the land is being bought up by big companys, sub divided, built on,.(it is an inevitable) and there is nothing we as sportman can do.
At the same time these deer that are using the land in what could be its last open winter,(as there will be houses on it next summer) could use a little help, whether they survive another winter on that tract of land isn't really up to us? but the deer have no choice but to use what the've got.
It's just sad that they "have" to be harassed. legally or illegally.

 

[Hawkeye]

Karl-

I have already said what I had to say on the other post and in person on Sunday afternoon. However, I want to respond to the statement you made to Robiland and me in this post. You said (and I quote):

"If you had kids and I hope you do and your son had just shot a deer and when you pulled up some guy was telling your kid what he was doing was wrong what would you do??? I got mad. All of you should think about this. I have already said I was wrong to loose my temper. I will apologize for the temper but nothing else. I have spoke to my son about this and he understands and will learn from this. Good Lesson."

There is so much to say in response to this but I will limit myself to the following. Both Robiland and I have kids of our own. We are not perfect parents but we are trying our best to teach them to enjoy the outdoors and raise them the right way. When you arrived on the scene on Sunday, we were not yelling at your son. We simply asked him what he was doing and told him that he was pressuring deer. Rather than take a little criticism and learn his mistakes, your son tried to tell us that the deer were actually being chased by a ?bobcat and a coyote? and that ?the deer were only running 50 or 100 yards.? Both of these statements were patently false. You are correct in stating that we were ?telling your kid that what he was doing was wrong.? If my one of my kids was doing something like that I hope a responsible adult would step in an teach him a lesson. If you really wanted to teach your son a ?good lesson? as you say, you would have acknowledged that you both had made a mistake. Instead, you did the following: (1) jumped down our throats, (2) lectured us on your past wildlife conservation efforts, (3) told us you had the right to do whatever you wanted on the property, (4) asked us if we were some of ?those guys that sit on monstermuleys.com for 2 or 3 hours a day discussing the poor condition of our deer herds,? and (5) rattled off the names and telephone numbers of your friends at the DWR.

You definitely taught your son a lesson on Sunday afternoon but I don't think it was a lesson to be proud of. As parents, our actions speak louder than our words. We need to be the examples. A parent is supposed to teach their children what is right not simply defend their actions regardless of the circumstances. After all, learning accountability and responsibility is part of growing up.

Hawkeye

 

[eelgrass]

Zim is a lover. Zigga is a wolf lover. Big difference!

Eel

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

>Basin Boy,

>Your logic is twisted dude...Damn trespassers
>are going to get in
>here either way so it
>mine as well be my
>family that pressures these deer
>at there most vulnerable time
>and gets these antlers. That'll
>teach em..... And some other
>developer will build a mega
>mall if my company doesn't
>so it mine as well
>be my company that does
>it. No wonder this world
>is so messed up..... Greed.............

Ahhh, My thoughts exactly on what Brother Basin Boy is up to.
Excellent post!

 

[BLooDTRaCKeR]

Now thats funny.

 

[browtine]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-08 AT 07:43PM (MST)[p]bobby, no worries, I havent deleted any.. I know you were not questioning moderators..

Later, Brandon

 

[basinboy]

My bad Zim Karl. Knew it was to good to be true

 

[BuzzH]

Browtine,

Your argument on this thread is "well, the deer are going to get run around anyway by trespassers, so why not let Karl do it first." Karl is an honest guy because he has permission? What a grand set of ethics. Dont worry about the deer, just the antlers they leave behind and who gets them.

The answer is for EVERYONE to leave the frickin' deer alone...period. That doesnt mean Karl should be allowed to push them because he's done some good things for deer. I've done a lot of good things for deer too, should I be able to run them around in a$$ deep snow pushing them around and collecting antlers? I'm also an honest guy, am I entitled to antlers even though it will harm the wintering deer?

NO FRICKIN' WAY.

Its not about who does what or who has permission, its about the deer and just leaving the poor things alone while they're trying to survive.

There is no excuse for trespassing and there is no excuse for the lack of ethics and behavior shown by Karl. Both should be fined and kicked in the sack for their stupidity.

 

[Zigga]

"Both should be fined and kicked in the sack for their stupidity."

Literally or figuratively speaking? And my gut shot comment got some flack. Or maybe it was a desperate attempt to change the subject. The sack kicking is funnier Buzz.

 

[bigbuckchaser]

I call for a state wide ban on shed hunting until after April 1st! If you get caught, a $5000.00 fine AND loss of hunting privledges for that year. Put serious teeth in the law and get somebodys attention. It sucks and and will hurt people like me that love looking for bone. But the Deer and Elk gotta come first. We are killing ourselves in the court of public opinion, with anti's, and are part of the reason the RESOURCE is being depleted. If you kill deer by being stupid you ARE taking away deer to hunt in the future (Sheds too!) We build houses on the winter ranges, expand highways, move water sources with pipelines, film them, hunt them, chase them after horns and are loving them to death. And just cause it's legal don't make it right! Where is common sense? Why all the competition and greed? What the hell is wrong with people? And Mr. Karren, you get no sympathy from me. You are trying to justify and rationalize idiotic behavoir. Your boy is wrong and instead of correcting him you are enableing him to continue doing the wrong thing! Those deer have no voice! How about listening to ours?

 

[proutdoors]

I agree bigbuckchaser!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[DallanC]

Traverse Ridge was purchased by the Estes Corporation back in the early 80s. I actually attended a city hall meeting about the proposed development with a couple of my high school friends in 1985.


-DallanC

 

[JLTD]

this one right here and 15 bucks an hour and you got your self a lookout.

Just Living The Dream

 

[doityourself]

Can someone please explain the shed hunting thing to me? Why is everybody so boned up over it? And why in the world is someone chasing deer on private land to get them? Are they monster deer, cause if they are little 4 pts and smaller that is just asinine. I have watched the locals over in LaBarge sit and watch deer for hours and days waiting for them to drop and then go and pick up the horn when the deer wanders off. It's just amazing that someone can justify their actions over something that seems so trivial. Maybe if your familys' welfare depended on you picking up that 2 by 3 matching set I would understand. C'mon dude, basinboy or whoever you are. Is it really that important? Sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

 

[huntsonora]

Browtine,

Not picking on you but your first post on this thread was kind of like a John Madden narrative in a football game. A lot of words but not much was really said. Again, not picking on you but I am curious as to where you stand on this particular issue of having anybody at all bumping deer while they are on the wintering ground?

From your first post it seemed like you were implying that if Karl didnt do it somebody else would so that made it OK.

DL

 

[eelgrass]

Not trying to speak for Browtine but I think he was saying that since the law is unenforcable (for whatever reason) the guy with permission might as well be the one getting the sheds. Because obviously somebody will get them.

The way it is now, the nice guy gets the left overs.

Eel

 

[shotgun1]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-08 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]WOW!

Basinboy, keep posting, because every time you do you just solidify what a Tool you are.

Your 10,000 word essay is a joke. Comparing someones son shooting a buck legally and your son harassing deer is moronic. Which BTW is illegal.

To who ever said, "That property was gone 14 years ago". Tell that to the deer because I don't think they got that memo. It may be gone in the near future but right now deer are still using it and they don't need to be chased around by some Utardiot. Its not about some guy picking up a few sheds either, its about some guy harassing wildlife when they are already having a tough time surviving without being pushed through deep snow.

 

[blacktailBC]

I have to totally agree with Buzz..LEAVE THE DEER ALONE RIGHT NOW. BOTTOM LINE.

 

[Gator]

Basin BOY
As I asked on the other Post ARE THE DEER HERE ON A FEEDING PROGRAM??????????. If not why not, If these deer are getting enough feed You're not a problem, but if they aren't getting enough feed you are a problem moving them around during a tough period, Because protecting the deer should inculdes feeding them too isn't that right. If you not helping to feed these deer your failing in your job to protect these deer. If all your doing is watching from the sidelines(or hunting sheds) you're not doing a hell of alot of good in the long run.

If you own the land, You may do whatever you think is right but you will still be judged by those who are watching.
The time for you to stand up and be counted has passed.

 

[Castnshoot]

Basinboy, I say I have to agree with most of your points. My Great Great Great grandfather walked hundreds of miles pulling a hand cart with 7 kids after his wife had died. He carved out a ranch way up the Weber canyon just below holiday park.
After generations of my Moms family scratching out a living on that land. Some dying in the process.
There are people that would try and say that latter generations did not have the right to do as they wished with that land just because there are some deer on it. It does make all the family sad to drive up the canyon and see what it is like now but it was just the economics of the times. And the last I heard privet property is still just that, privet.
I know that most people who are giving you a hard time just want whats best for the herd, but in my opinion there are plenty laws on the books now to stop people from doing what they say you were doing.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[tageater]

Hand carts? 12 wives? privet(private) parts? Basinboy was doing something that is on the books! harassing wildlife. whats being done? Geneology leasons....thats what! I suppose your families mad cause the feds took some of great granny's land and turned it into National Forest too. You confused me.

that would be about my 50th cent.

 

[lwh]

Where having the same problem here in nv, every road from las vegas to wendover has a truck with a utah license plate on it, and some of the dumb nv hunters that have no clue of what there doing to these animals. I can see parts of why this man is picking up the sheds, because of the trespassers, i have a huge respect for the ones that are on here that are looking over the best trust of the deer, this is a bad winter and if the shed hunters that are out picking up the horns were better sportsman and looked for the best of the deer there would not be a piss match going on. There should be a way of picking these guys up for trespass and going the full length of the law, and making examples of the first, so others will be scared, and you dont feel like you have to pick the horns up, so they dont trespass. There will be a law or season set on horn hunts because of how popular it is, northern nevada board has talked about puting a season on it, and making it for resident only, becuase of the pressure that the animals are getting in the winter, all i ask is wait untill spring and the snow is gone so the deer that you are picking sheds up this year is there next year and have a chance of living. The bucks that you guys have been glassing in the winter range for the past month, and now are chasing on atvs, will drop there horns on there own without your help, and you can pick them up in a month, in other words, stay home by the fire.

 

[predator]

Oh Lordy....what part about shed hunting is ILLEGAL and harassment of wildlife is ILLEGAL are some folks not getting??

Doesn't matter if it's PRIVATE or not!!!

Basin, if 4 does die, you've killed up to 12 if they are carrying twins. If a buck dies, you cannot count the loss of genetics and genes to survive. If you are shed hunting, you are on winter range, and you are breaking the law. I don't care what sideways to Sunday you try to justify it by making past trespassing complaints by your side, it's illegal and you should be ashamed.

You are right about the developments, even conservation dollars cannot fight developer dollars, especially when the developments get tax breaks to bring it on. I had the privilege of hunting Traverse Mtn when it was a PHU, and it was some of the best mule deer habitat we had left. I have to laugh when Suncrest tries to see that it has wildlife corridors and open space. Yah, whatever when I can see the houses stacked next to each other on the ridgeline from as far away as Saltair!

And we wonder why our deer population is on the decline???

Keep the brown bone, boys, it may be the only thing left when our grandchildren ask about mule deer!

 

[scoutdog5]

Greetings:

As a complete outsider who has no clue about this property, I do have some observations.

1. There are some great discussions on MM, particularly when people remain civil and discuss complicated ideas and potential solutions. This has not been one of them. Most of you need to take a deep breath, calm down, read what you have previously posted, and try again.

2. Harassment of wildlife is a huge problem, much, much larger than anybody realizes, in my view. Most of us are guilty at some time during our outdoor experiences. Most wildlife agencies, including Oregon and Utah, have rifle seasons during late fall and winter, with no idea what the weather will be when those hunts occur. Does anybody think that an antlerless elk hunt is good for the overall health of mule deer when it occurs in December or January?

3. Many years ago, the Ochoco Unit was one of the top mule deer units in the west. Today, it is a disaster. According to ODF&W research, pregnancy rates average 120 fawns/100 does. Last year, they had a count of 50 fawns/100 does in December, before winter started. 70 of 120 fawns were gone. Possible explanations, stillborn, aborted, predators, road kill. No wolves, no bears, some cougars, coyotes, so it is a little hard to lay it all on predators. No doe seasons on any part of the unit, and no poaching of antlerless deer that I am aware of. 30 years ago, this count regularly exceeded 70/100. What has changed? A lot more roads, shed hunting, snowmobiling, cross country skiing, a six week turkey season from mid-April to the end of May, huge increase in summer recreation, etc. Up until the mid 90's, these animals were left alone from the first of December til July. No more. My view, unsupported by any research I am aware of, is that the huge increase in human disruption throughout the year is a significant factor in the decline of our mule deer herds. While I agree that activity on winter range during times of deep snow is particularly egregious, I also believe that human disruption leading up to the fawning season is a significant part of the problem.

4. Bottom line in my experience, we are our own worst enemies, we are loving our herds to death, and I don't see much hope going forward.

Scoutdog

 

[RACKMASTER]

this whole thing smells like double D's Debs coin pouch in high school!
rm

 

[basinboy]

Hawkeye Robinland

I have already stated I was wrong to loose my temper because I knew what you were there for and your intentions were right. But after all of this you guys fail understand that the road you were on is still under construction and posted private property. Take a drive up there today you will see the sign plain as day. The state has passed stricter penalties for those who are trespasing for purpases related to wildlife. PLease send both of your contact information to the Lehi City Police department Attn Det Birch. Then after we get done with this mess you can explain to your kids why you have a class b tresspasing charge. You will see that we both may in our mind have had good intentions and we both have ways to justifie what we were doing but neither of us will ever win.


Karl Karren

 

[basinyotehunter]

>this whole thing smells like double
>D's Debs coin pouch in
>high school!
>rm


LOL


-Cody AKA BigBuck92

 

[Gator]

Karl
If they do that will you go turn yourself into the DWR for your deeds.Bet hell will freeze over first. You sure do like to skip around questions.

 

[browtine]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 07:38AM (MST)[p]I was asked where I stand..........

I am totaly against the deer being pushed. I am against Karl pushing the deer. I am against tresspassers pushing the deer.

I am for land owner rights. My post, in synopsis, is that this issue starts with tresspassers. If there were no tresspassers, those deer would be left alone and Karl wouldn't feel the need to beat people out of sheds. I guess I can't see how hard it is to read that in my posts and why I have buzz telling me im in left field? I have to ask if he has ever seen this place?

Drum,

Unless people know where this place is, its hard to explain why this situation is unique. There are alot of people who grew up here, watch these big commercial establishments built, and an enourmous population increase on the winterange by building homes. Imagine looking at a mountain that has nothing on it. Within 10 years, there are homes on all 4 sides of it with the majority of them being on top of the mountain. Its being closed to deer by homes, businesses, and streets. Thats why Packout said what he said. Its only a matter of time before this place doesn't have deer on it. (At the current rate, it wont be long at all) A major entrance to the place has already been built.

Hope this helps.

Later, Brandon

 

[Zigga]

Solution for basinboy

My solution for basinboy is to change your user name and become someone else. I'm not trying to be rude but your conscience will feel better. Your biggest mistake was responding to this whole fiasco after your initial actions. How have you slept the last few nights with a pending wildlife violation hanging over your head? If I were your local game warden I would have cited you by now. Just admit you were wrong and learn from it.

I know Helena, Montana has big muley bucks that live right in town so maybe there is hope that they will live on and become a nuisance for the future locals of Traverse Mountain estates. Not quite in their natural environment but what do you do? Just don't let your kids outside during the rut. Sad isn't it?

 

[HNTBIGBULLS]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Unreel, this guy still does not get
the big picture of this situation.

In the other post, there were alot
of comments about Mr karren, In a
court of law could fight it and win,
Why is it that laws have to be pushed
to the fullest extent.

To me it all comes down to common sense
and the lack of morals!

 

[skyline_driver]

RE: Solution for basinboy

My solution for Basin is to maybe grow up or get a badge to match that attitude you have. Honestly you try to come across as some type of hero, but in my mind all I see is a hillbilly family out trudging through knee deep snow with snowshoes and matching wranglers, pushing already exhausted deer to get them to drop their antlers. If there were no bucks with head gear I'm sure you probably wouldn't waste your time watching as closely as you do now. Admit your mistake, move on, and maybe join another site or change your name on this one, about 99% of the people here are disgusted with you, the rest are just too passive to care I guess. I hope you get a citation to match all those you claim to have helped out with in the past.

 

[Hawkeye]

Karl said:

?I have already stated I was wrong to loose my temper because I knew what you were there for and your intentions were right. But after all of this you guys fail understand that the road you were on is still under construction and posted private property. Take a drive up there today you will see the sign plain as day. The state has passed stricter penalties for those who are trespassing for purposes related to wildlife. Please send both of your contact information to the Lehi City Police department Attn Det Birch. Then after we get done with this mess you can explain to your kids why you have a class b trespassing charge. You will see that we both may in our mind have had good intentions and we both have ways to justified what we were doing but neither of us will ever win.?

Karl, you just don't get it do you? Rather than simply acknowledging that you made a mistake you continue to try to justify your actions and blame others. Neither Robiland or I ever trespassed. To claim otherwise is simply wrong. We respected the no trespassing signs and watched the whole episode unfold from the side of SR-92 with our binoculars and spotting scopes. When we realized that you and your family were pushing large numbers of deer we immediately called the DWR. The DWR officer told us that nobody could respond to our call and asked us to get your license plate numbers and physical descriptions, which we did. We gathered the necessary information and took pictures of you, your sheds and your truck. When we realized that your son was not going to return to your truck but was heading to the houses on the West end of the property, we drove over to that subdivision to take some pictures and see if he had another vehicle parked over there. In doing this, I want to be perfectly clear that we did not trespass.

The road we traveled on was a fully paved road with sidewalks. At the top of the road where we turned right, there is a large sign advertising the ?Park Place? subdivision and the homes for sale in that subdivision. In fact, the spot where we stopped and spoke with you and your son was right in front of a partially constructed home. That very home has a "For Sale" sign in the front yard. I guess you will also have to prosecute every person that visits the Park Place subdivision to look at the homes for sale. There is not a single private property or no trespassing sign on the paved road we traveled. I drove back up there again this morning to confirm this. Additionally, neither Robiland nor I ever got out of our vehicle. We were there for one purpose only, to gather information for the DWR and to ask you why you were pushing deer.

If your truly think that Robiland and I did something wrong then tell the Lehi Police Department to contact the DWR. The DWR has both of our contact information because we provided it to them when we reported you and your family for strapping on snow shoes and pushing a few hundred deer through knee deep snow. I am not offended by the fact that you lost your temper with us. I have no personal issue with you. The only reason I even mentioned our exchange in my prior post is because you claimed that you were teaching your son a ?good lesson? from this incident. The only thing he has learned from your example is that it is OK to pressure deer in extreme conditions in order to gather sheds and if anybody questions your conduct, it is OK to make excuses, lie and blame others for you your poor decisions.

Hawkeye

 

[basinboy]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Zigga Will changing my name and posting a few pictures of some bucks I killed or some sheds change who I am???? Will it change what happens in the world??? Will it change what I do for a living. Will it change the fact that if I were to get in my truck this weekend and drive North South East or West I would see shed hunters for the next 500 miles on public and private land. ( I could take a gun and gutt shootem probems solved call me we could go together I have not done this before but it sounds like you have) I could just camo up and sneek around. That would solve problems. I am not trying to be self rightous I did not make the first posts on this but I did no it would show up on here. Sticking yours heads in the sand will not create solutions.

BasinBoy

 

[HNTBIGBULLS]

RE: Solution for basinboy

You are correct karl, sticking your
head in the sand will not solve the
problem, But if you were to come
on here and admit what you are
doing is not exactly right, and
stop trying to sugar coat it with
long boring statements, everyone
may just let it die.

 

[UTodd]

RE: Solution for basinboy

"Zigga Will changing my name and posting a few pictures of some bucks I killed or some sheds change who I am????"

No...I think you will still be a self righteous jerk!

Karl- I was actually trying hard to see your side of this deal- but your post to Robiland and Hawkeye have cemented the fact that you are no class power ranger out for a fight.

 

[skyline_driver]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Honestly Krazy Karl I doubt the DWR is going to do anything to you based on your suggestion that you have helped them in the past. This to me means that they will probably pretend it never happened, which will cement the fact that someone who knows someone, who knows someone will not be held accountable for their actions. As for your trespassing statement for Hawkeye, you have further drawn a picture that you are the worlds biggest hypocrite, b.s.'er, and someone that people probably hate to deal with on a daily basis.

Hawkeye, really we shouldn't get on him for not teaching his son a lesson in this situation, just having a dad that shows an example like that is punishment enough......

 

[Tuffbucker]

RE: Solution for basinboy

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 11:01AM (MST)[p]Reading the original post and the responses to it, I have to come to a very important conclusion....

MONSTER MULEYS NEED SPELLCHECKER!! I dont know what the bigger problem is here, people pushing deer all over hell and beyond, or adults who spell like they barely have a third grade education! Judas people!

 

[UTodd]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Tuff,

"all over hell and begone"? or is it beyond?

 

[B_F_E]

RE: Solution for basinboy

In summary.....this saga illustrates the need for enforceable laws to deal with increasingly overzealous shed hunters.
Who because of their infatuation with sheds have tunnel-vision against the negative effects they personally might have, yet this view allows for liberal projections toward others.

 

[browtine]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Dude, can you user bigger words? I need english translation you scholar Just kidding

Later, Brandon

 

[B_F_E]

RE: Solution for basinboy

Sorry Tine, I was just trying to stay focused & not get distracted by Rack's post # 54

 

[Canoe]

Karl- Thanks for taking the time to tell your side of the story. Don't let the haters get you down, I don't think you will really get gutshot. Many of the others are just riding the "MM.com we are golden boys as pure as the driven snow" bandwagon. I've seen it a thousand times over the years.

Someone else said it might be a good idea to create a new account and start all over. I think that this would be good advice, but I really doubt that you are interested enough in this site to care. After the reception you got I would be surprised if you even want to stay and be a part og this group.

 

[shotgun1]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]Keep posting Basinboy. LMAO! Everyone of your posts gets more ridicules then the last.

BTW, Just drove west on SR-92 (where this incident took place) and HOLY CHIT. Those deer that Karls been harassing are now having to ride out a full on blizzard with 50 mph winds and complete white out conditions. People have just given up and stopped on the road because they couldn't see. I must of driven around 15 cars that were stopped on the road. So much for this break in the weather.

 

[eelgrass]

We all seem to agree. Even Karl. That the deer should not be pushed, harassed this time of year. And then we say we are powerless to stop trespassers? Why? I can guarantee that if that was my property there would be no trespassing. I PROMISE. Especially on such a visible piece of property. This is still America.

They have the same problem in Africa. The savages go out and poach Rhino for their horn. This reminds me of the same stupidity.

If you love the deer here is a proposal for you:

It is illegal to buy, sell, trade, or have in your possession, deer or elk antlers without a valid big game hunting tag attatched. If you want to use your tag to pick up two sheds, fine.

Since we are too stupid to figure out how to do it responsibily, it sure makes sense to me.

 

[ClorideRUS]

There really are 3 issues here.

1. Karren's job is to keep trespassers off this property. I haven't heard anyone dispute that fact.

2. Harassing wildlife particularly with the kind of weather we've had in Utah this winter is just plain wrong.

3. Every time something becomes popular such as shed hunting people start abusing the privilege.

The thing that has really aggravated me is Karren has tried to justify his actions with the most ridiculous excuses I have ever heard. Just because property is privately owned doesn't give anyone the right to harass wildlife period.

This thread has brought to the fore front just how rotten people can really be and how they can make lame excuses for their actions. I'm sure the trespasser or poacher could give us lots of reasons why they do something stupid.

Anyway, last year I was one of the 1st to make fun of the "shed hunting season" in the northern region. Now I'm thinking it needs to be taken further. We probably need some kind of law that says "No off road activity between the months of November and April" that should include snowmobiles, wheelers, hikers, bikers. Of course that can't be mandated for private property but it might send the message to everyone including Karren that it's NOT ok to harass wildlife when they are most vulnerable!

Whew! Ranting again.... Don?t get me started on what developers are doing to the winter range!

 

[Gator]

WELL I'M STARTING TO SEE WHY BOBCAT TYPE'S LIKE THIS,

ARE THERE A FEEDING PROGRAM OR NOT KARL, PRETTY SIMPLE QUESTION. IF YOU'RE GOING TO RUN THEM YOU SHOULD AT LEAST FEED THEM.


I wish some-one would put a big sign up at the entrance to those houses and tell everyone they was built on the blood of alot of deer and elk.

 

[nutsaboutbucks]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-08 AT 07:29PM (MST)[p]I agree with ClorideRUS about atv's & snowmobiles lets pass a law to stop this abuse & call it the Karren Law!! Also known as the Utardiot Law!!

 

[gb22]

Hey, those excuses aren't ridiculous! They are the same ones that get used when mom catches you in the cookie jar, the boss catches you padding your expense account or when your spouse catches you cheating.

Gator, that would be a good sign, but improved if it had the pictures of Karl and his family listed just below...maybe signatures, too.

 

[Gator]

I'm think if it stops a few people(it wouldn't stop them all) from buying it will slow the money flow into the owners pocket, if that takes place the owner might be incline to Tell Karl where and when, The old saying Money talks and Bullshit walks.

I'm guessing the part about hell freezing over has come to pass with the whiteouts you're having up there.

KARL: it still a simple question are you feeding the deer on this property.

 

[basinboy]

Gator you can email a phone number [email protected] and if you are willing to call me I would be more than willing to talk about feeding big game. If I dont reply let me know on here you may get blocked by one of are firewalls. Karl

 

[timberline_shedfreak24]

He should be thrown in jail. Period,

Timberline

"Live for somethin' or die for nothin'"

 

[junior]

Man...who chopped down the cherry tree? You all look like a bunch of kids!

If Karl has not got the point by now, HE ISN'T.

Get over it and let this one die!

Talk to G&F if you want to stop the shed hunting until may!

I bet they don't get 5 calls from either of you!

 

[bambykiller]

I was out scouting a couple of weeks ago and driving down a road and scared a whole herd of deer that went running through the snow. I am starting to feel guilty now - do you all think I should turn myself in?

 

[sampson]

This site is funny sometimes. A while back one of the MM.com favorites was found out to be a repetetive poacher. Many gave him the benefit of the doubt and still others outright defended his character.

Now Karl spooks a few deer and the majority think he should be strung up vigilanty style. Looks t be a bit of double standards to me. JMHO.

 

[bambykiller]

How many of you have pushed deer or elk when hunting on the extended archery or who have had a late season cow tag? I know I have and now I am starting to feel guilt about that. Usually quite a bit of snow during those hunts depending on the year. Maybe we should get rid of those hunts because that would put too much stress on the deer and elk. You are all accusing Karl of the same ##### that you all have done at some point in your life.

 

[HNTBIGBULLS]

The name fits

 

[eelgrass]

Plus, some people want to gut shoot people for running deer, but would love to turn a pack of wolves loose on those same deer. Weird, isn't it?

Eel

 

[wideone]

It cracks me up to hear people refer to them as "poor deer," when our ultimate goal is to let the air out of them this Fall. At least that's my goal, if I can learn how to shoot... And find a buck...

"Wolves killed 'em all"
Wideone

 

[nebo]

I have to agree with the 4 posts above this one.

 

[Castnshoot]

I see a lot of people on MM in this thread and others having to do with the hard winter this year advocating the closer of a whole lot of public land for some pretty long periods of time.
It seems to be the majority consensus here. I have started a sort of poll on this subject over in CAMPFIRE under CLOSING OF PUBLIC LANDS. Just out of curiosity

 

[toughshed]

bamby...you really don't get it either do you? One of Karl's buddies? Here are the facts.

Karl admits his is a shed hunting nut

Karl got all defensive because he thought someone was getting after his son...Daddy to the rescue.

Karl guards the land to protect the sheds that he perceives as his.

Karl digs the hole deeper every time he posts another thread.

Karl could care less about the deer...if they were all does he won't care who was up there.

Karl and his family should be cited for wildlife harassment.

 

[completesportsman]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-15-08 AT 10:22AM (MST)[p].... bamby...you really don't get it either do you? One of Karl's buddies? Here are the facts.....


Maybe bamby is Karl???

 

[Zigga]

>Plus, some people want to gut
>shoot people for running deer,
>but would love to turn
>a pack of wolves loose
>on those same deer. Weird,
>isn't it?
>
>Eel



Come on Eel. There's a big difference between turning wolves loose on starving deer on Traverse Mountain and turning wolves loose on a few million acres with an overpopulation of elk. I now prefer to sack kick instead of gut shoot anyway.

 

[BomberBlackies]

After attempting to read and understand most of the comments on this thread, I have a question. If in fact the deer are living in belly deep snow, is Karl some kind of Sasquatch that can navigate the deep snow at supersonic speed? Man, I just have a hard time seeing somedude walking very far in belly deep snow. I know the yotes and cats can skim the top but someone like Karl? I really wonder how much he harrassed the herd and if the supposed harrassment was as simple as a vehicle spooking the deer??

 

[huntsonora]

From what I understood he and his family were on snowshoes. So Karl and his family were not exerting near as much energy as the deer that were trying to put distance between them...

 

[BomberBlackies]

Thank you. Drum check you PM.

 

[toughshed]

You have no regrets and that's why you are a loser. Plain and simple. You give Utard's a bad name, Karl. Do something decent with your life.

KG.

 

[Gator]

Karl sent you a e-mail.