N Utah's Carrying Capacity

[SMELLYBUCK]

I've got to say I feel sorry for the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources as I've read the posts on this site. I am shocked at the ignorance and the inconsistant stances of hunters. Over the past few years I've heard complaints like:

1) The 2004 hunt wiped out the herd.

2) There aren't enought deer and its the DWR's fault (too many tags, too many hunts, blah blah blah.)

Then the snows came and the complaints poured in that the DWR should be feeding the deer. Guys who previously said there wasn't a deer herd seemed to think the DWR should be feeding all these "nonexistant" deer that were starving.

Did anyone pay attention in their hunter safety classes on a really simple concept called carrying capacity? As much as we complained last year that there weren't enough deer, its pretty obvious now that the herd was at carrying capacity.

I'm convinced that if we want more deer in this state we are going to have to improve winter ranges. Utah doesn't have near the winters of Wyoming, however, Wyoming deer seem to make it through the winters far better. I've observed that the places that are seeing the worst winter kill are light on sage brush. Its wiped out by farms or houses or fires. If we want more deer in this state, we would be far better off focusing our efforts on improving winter range instead of fighting about making more units or cutting tags. Improve the winter habitat and we'll have more deer to hunt - period. We should be working with the DWR to improve the winter range instead of talking about how stupid they are.

 

[nochawk]

I for one dont think that we were at Carrying capacity in the northern unit and if we were it is like you stated that we dont have any good winter range..a better question would be WHAT WINTER WINTER RANGE?

They are building homes up higher on the benches every year and the valleys are already full, to get to what winter range there is left on the Wasatch frount the deer/elk/moose have to get across I-15 from SLC to Brigham city..
The Ogden valley (Huntsville/Eden/Liberty)what land is left being built up and pricing the residents out of there own homes and land that has been in families for generations..
One thing I did like was that last year MDF planted sagebrush in the middle-fork WMA.

Now Cache county is a whole different story, they suffered a big winterkill and have not recovered from it a few years back and now this year will just compound the problem. They have winter range in that valley, but the deer don't have a chance to grow up.

This is one area that I think does need to be made into a separate micro unit and managed by the DWR..one problem I see is that if the hunters cant find a place on Monte Cristo they head for cache county..heck, lets make Monte Cristo a micro unit while we at it.

My idea's and they are just MY IDEAS would be:

1. No building above 4000ft on the benches
2. Make travel corridors under the highways in Migration areas
3. Preserve open space and green areas that we have now.
4. Micro management units
5. Hey.. lets copy Colorado and Nevada and limit the number of permits in each unit.
6. personally I would close the season in Cache county this year.

I dont see these things happening but we have to prepare ourselves for the 3 million more folks that are suppose to move in to the Wasatch frount in the next 5 - 10 years...My question is... Where is the water for all these folks going to come from??? we are having water shortages every year now..what about in 5 years...

OK,

 

[Hunterted]

I agree.

The focus now is on increasing the number of deer units instead of increasing the carrying capacity and thus the number of deer.

 

[257Tony]

>1. No building above 4000ft on
>the benches
>2. Make travel corridors under the
>highways in Migration areas
>3. Preserve open space and green
>areas that we have now.
>
>4. Micro management units
>5. Hey.. lets copy Colorado and
>Nevada and limit the number
>of permits in each
>unit.
>6. personally I would close the
>season in Cache county this
>year.


The valley floor is like 4350 ft. so you are gonna have to raise your standard.

 

[kilbuc]

Carrying Capacity is determined by how many deer/animals can be supported in a healthy manner on all seasonal ranges. If the summer range can support 10,000 deer but the winter range can support only 1000 deer then the carring capacity is 1000 deer. Typically in the west the amount and health of the winter range determines the deer population.

from the "Heartland of wyoming"

 

[nochawk]

The valley floor is like 4350 ft. so you are gonna have to raise your standard

Your right 257Tony, I ment 5000ft..big fat fingers I guess..I live up on the bench of Ben Lomond at 50003ft. up until 2 years ago we were up as high as you could get due to the Gravel pit and rocky cliffs...but the last year they started blasting rock away to build higher up...nothig like dynamite blasting for those of us with Shell Shock and Post Tramatic stress early in the mornings...

They have ( North Ogden) started building on the old mud slide area at the start of North Ogden Pass..remember it slid down the mountain about 15-20 years ago?taking out the last 4 houses they had build...wonder how long these new ones will last before they slide the rest of the way down the bench...

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

Nochawk, a few good suggestions, but I have couple of questions:

1) How can you say within a paragraph that the deer are not at carrying capacity and that there is no winter range? No disrespect, but that really makes no sense to me. I think Kilbuc nailed it.

2) Do you think housing development at 8000' takes more habitat from the deer than a housing development at 4900'? (This point is almost mute as we are a long ways from politically being able to take property development rights away, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.)

...and some comments:

I understand the glamour of more units as Colorado seems to be producing bigger deer with such; however, I think a lot of us are jumping ahead to conclusions. Colorado has fewer tags per deer which has as much to do with more bigger bucks as having more units. I disagree with you that the problem with Cache Valley is too many hunters. I've hunted up there and can tell you there are other parts of the state with a lot more deer and a lot more pressure. I think Cache Valley's problem is the winter range has far more grass than shrubs and forbs. They get deep snows and the deer have a hard time making anything of the dead grass. The deer would do much better if there was a lot of 3' sage brush. The beef I have with splitting all the units, is its just number shuffling - a lot like what Enron's accountants did to show higher earnings. We could make Monte Cristo its own unit and close Cache, but it still wouldn't contribute one mouthful of food to the deer in Cache. We can focus our efforts on cultivating better winter range on 5 units, and we would have better hunting. No tag cutting, no unit shuffling, just get the carrying capacity up.

 

[BBB]

Great Post SMELLYBUCK.

 

[nochawk]

1. The Northern region is a LARGE unit, My comment was more along the line of for the REGION we were not at carrying capacity. The North slope herd has winter range, Box Elder county has winter range, Pilot Mnt herd has winter range, I would think that Heber Valley has winter range, Morgan valley has winter range...so if you look at it that way we were not at carrying capacity. BUT if we talk about the Wasatch frount we DO NOT have any winter range for this herd unless they can get past I-15 up north here and from Farmington south they got the housing and I-15 plus more housing to get thru to reach whatever winter range there is.

2. This point is almost mute like you said, weather it is at 8000 or 4900 the animals still have to get thru it to reach winter range.
I moved here in the early 70s and there was a law/rule on the books about how high up on the benches you could build, I believe it was 4500ft, but they keep building up higher.. that rule was probably repealed, but I think it was a good rule.

My thought on the micromanagement is not to make a whole bunch of little units but for example make??? 6 units out of the northern region???
1. North Slope
2. Morgan/heber
3. Monte Cristo
4. Cache
5. west desert/Box elder
6. Wasatch frount
this would still leave the units a pretty big chunk or real estate but you could manage the herd better and concentrate on the areas that need the most help. The deer in Box elder county have had a lot easier winter than the deer on Monte or Cache.

Like you said, we need to plant more sage brush and that is why I mentioned that the MDF planted sage in Middle-fork last year.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

That makes more sense. Thanks.

 

[Mokie1]

I would just like to say that I Have lived in the Cache Valley for 33 years and am currently involved in the feeding program. In all my years I have never seen as many dead deer due to the winter conditions as this year. What winter range we do have up here is limited. So I agree the Cache deer heard could possibly benifit from some changes. I have really enjoyed the topic it is good to know that there are some concerned people out there.