What should I have done?

[grizzmoose]

Hi Guys,

Just got back from the Wasatch muzz hunt and ended up eating my tag. This was my first elk hunt and I felt pretty over my head as far as knowing anything about elk and knowing how to call. The calls I was using were a Hoochie Mama, a Hyperlip Double, and a Baffler Bugle. The Hoochie Mama seemed to chase elk away more than anything else, so that was put away fairly quickly. I was able to call a few smaller bulls in with the Hyperlip, but I think I still have lots to learn with it as far as frequency of calling and making the right tones. I was not comfortable enough with the bugle to use it so it didnt come out of the pack until later in the hunt.

I'd like to share a couple of experiences and hope you guys can offer a critique of what I could have done different to have more success.

I was in pretty good country most of the time and had bulls actively making noise almost every day. For the most part, I never bugled back, but slowly moved in on the sound and then tried to coax the bulls to me using the Hyperlip. It seemed like the bulls responded to the calls almost every time, but rarely came in close to me. I was too nervous to move in close in fear of spooking them. After periodic chirps, about two or three at a time, in response to the bugles, it seemed the bulls became disinterested and stopped bugling all together. Would it have been better to close in on the bull quickly without being too worried about making a racket or should I have called a bit more often, or less often? Any other advice would be great.

The last morning of the hunt was probably my best chance at a nice bull and was definitely the most exciting experience of the hunt. After about a 2 mile walk above some heavy timber, I hadn't heard any bugling. This was an area where I had normally heard a minimum of 2 bulls almost every morning. It seemed like everything had come a dead stop. I walked about another 1000 yards further and found a place to try my bugle. A nice spot was found just on the edge of the timber, but I decided to take a few more steps into the trees before I called. Just as I had taken those steps, a large herd of cows jumped up from seemingly all around me and took off like a stampede into the woods. I turned around and looked at my dad and it was easy for him to see the disappointment on my face. I thought I had blown the whole hike. We stood there at a loss, and talked openly about what a bummer it was we spooked the herd knowing there was probably a big herd bull with them. After about two minutes of talking, doing nothing to conceal our voices, I thought I'd just try to bugle for the heck of it. No sooner than I ended my call, an absolute deafening scream came from no further than 15 yards up the hill and behind me! It scared the living hell out of us!! We both dropped down and turned to see the bull, but couldnt see him anywhere. I heard him in the timber and he was huffing and puffing, and sounded like he was moving in a small circle. At this point, he was obviously in range, but he was just inside the timber and we were a bit on the edge of it. I bugled again and he screamed back at me immediately sounding just as pissed off as he did the first time. I waited about a minute hoping he would come out, but he just stayed in there. I bugled once more hoping he would confront me, but it took him a bit longer to respond. . . and it sounded like he had retreated just a little bit. I decided I was going to move in on him and took a few steps out from behind my cover and caught my first view of him. I'm not good a scoring but I'd have guessed him at over 350. . . which I would have considered a HUGE success for me. Seeing that he hadn't actually retreated I ducked behind my cover again and bugled one more time trying to get him out. Our distance between each other was less than 20 yards. He didnt respond this time. I felt I had no choice but to go in after him. When I took a step into the woods, he was nowhere in sight. I called one more time and he responded, but it sounded like he was 100 yards away and had followed his cows deeper into the timber. At that point, I figured all was lost and cow called hoping he'd think he left a cow behind. He never responded and that was the end of it.

So. . . I need ya'll to Monday morning quarterback me. What did I do wrong? As disappointed as I am in eating my tag, I want to make this a learning experience and hope to feel more confident the next time I get a tag. All in all, it was the most fun I've had on a hunt and feel I'm a bit addicted to that screaming!

 

[WhiskeyDog]

Sometimes it just depends on what stage the bulls are in.

First thing you and everyone else should do is throw away the hoochie mama. That call has been way over used and always sounds the same, which isn't all that realistic.

If the bulls aren't going to come to the call, I would try only calling enough to keep them vocal a bit to give up their location and sneak in on them. If they are really rutting hard they will come in to just whistling. It has a lot to do with timing. Some days you can look like the worlds best elk hunter, other days the most experienced guy in the world can screw it up.

 

[12point]

I don't think you did anything wrong. Every time we have an unsuccessful hunt we have a tendency to think we should have done something different. You could have done a number of things and still had the same result. Next time with the same situation the bull will come out of the timber wanting to tear your head off. You do what you think is right at the time and it sounds like you did what most of us would have done. Sometimes when they're that close I think they get a whiff of human scent, not enough to send them running, but enough to make them think something is not quite right so they sort of shut down. They'll still answer a bugle but not near as aggressive and won't come in. Years ago I bugled one in and he stopped at 12 yards looking at me, I shot him high in the shoulder with an arrow, he whirled around, went back to his cows and would answer me every time I called but wouldn't come back in.

 

[Stubaby]

Get a mouth reed call. Learn how to use it good. Get the wind right and slip in on them. With a muzzle loader you have plenty of range and don't need to "call one in".

Just keep them making noise but don't bump them.

"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"

 

[Buglelk]

So I agree you never know. Here is my question for you. I have enough points next year 12. For muzzleloader tag on the Wasatch. I am afraid of my tag going to waste with this tag.
I have seen and heard from a lot of people including KSL outdoors show doing a piece on the cows they are slaughtering on this unit. I also worry about all the muzzeloader deer hunters?
Did you run into many of them?
I am not looking for a 370 class bull or anything I just want 330 340 type bull.
I just want to know would you do it all again or wait for a rifle tag?
If anyone else has some insight I would appreciate it as well.

 

[grizzmoose]

I dont think I'm experienced enough on the unit to corroborate the cow population, but I can tell you I saw very few cows where I was. The herd I stumbled upon was really the only large group I saw. I maybe saw 2-3 other cows the whole trip.

As far as running into other hunters, I would see them only in passing on the road or in their camps. Only once did I run into another one on the mountain. It was kind of nice feeling like I had the whole area to myself if I was willing to hike in over 1/2 a mile.

As far as having the rifle tag instead, I definitely would NOT wait a few more years for the tag. I didnt have any experiences on the trip where I thought I could have killed one with a rifle. Maybe one opportunity, but it would have been an irresponsible shot. I'd love to get this tag again! I certainly dont think my tag was wasted. Pretty sure I could have taken a bull in your range if I was more experienced.

>So I agree you never know.
>Here is my question for
>you. I have enough points
>next year 12. For muzzleloader
>tag on the Wasatch. I
>am afraid of my tag
>going to waste with this
>tag.
>I have seen and heard from
>a lot of people including
>KSL outdoors show doing a
>piece on the cows they
>are slaughtering on this unit.
> I also worry about
>all the muzzeloader deer hunters?
>
>Did you run into many of
>them?
>I am not looking for a
>370 class bull or anything
>I just want 330 340
>type bull.
>I just want to know would
>you do it all again
>or wait for a rifle
>tag?
>If anyone else has some insight
>I would appreciate it as
>well.

 

[elkcrzy1]

You were too nervous to get closer ? I would say once your that close you want to put the call away and rather than try to coax them to you, go ahead and put the final stalk on them. As long as the wind is right, you keep your eyes open and move slowly and quiet you can sneak into elk and kill them. I just returned from AZ archery hunt where the weather was hot and bulls weren't responding well to calls at all. I spotted some, got wind in my favor, never made a peep and stalked to 60 yds of a 330 bull with 12-14 cows and killed him. We had a lot of failures too, cows busted us, wind swirled, you name it, dont be afraid of closing in would be my advice.

 

[bowhunt]

Here is how I hunt elk with a Muzzloader on the Wasatch:

-I listen for bugles, and then RUN towards them.
-I try to get about 100 yards away.
-Start using my mouth reed to sound like a hot cow, very easy to do.
-This keeps the bull from rounding up and taking off.
-I sneak into about 70, and look for a shot.
-If I cannot get one located at this distance, I hunt the thick stuff, I let out a bugle that matches the bull I am hunting.

We have had great success.

Now when I am in Idaho hunting bulls, I do it a little differently.
But I always close the distance significantly, and do not worry about noise.

Hope that helps.

 

[grizzmoose]

Thanks for the advice guys! I kind of suspected I was being too cautious in closing the distance. This was an expensive lesson to learn having spent a bunch of points on a hunt to come out with nada. Hopefully I can get lucky in the next several years and give it another shot. Anymore tips would be appreciated!

 

[kj]

Sounds like you got into the elk which is more than a lot of people can say. You got away from people and spent your time where the elk where. My only advise, and probably the only thing I've done right, is to keep at it. Last year with my bow I had elk within 100 yards 10 times but never had that little bit of luck. This year I had elk within 50 yards five or six times before I got one. The last 10% of the hunt has also been very challenging for me, but the stories and challenge is what makes it so addicting.

I've never caught the elk actively bugling so I don't have much experience calling.

 

[elkhunterUT]

Sounds like you had some good experiences and learned a bunch while doing it, so that is a successful hunt in my book.

It is definitely ok to be very aggressive and make noise when hunting elk as long as you keep the wind right and avoid letting the cows see you. Elk don't care at all about noise as they are extremely noisy themselves. I recommend listening for bugles and then quickly moving in on the herd as fast as possible keeping the wind right. Also when muzzy hunting, I would honestly not recommend calling at all except in some circumstances to coax the bull a little further or to stop him, and in those instances I would only recommend a mouth diaphragm call with very soft cow calls. The Hoochie Mama call is a piece of crap and often does what you saw - send the elk the other way.

The last scenario you had is a very good technique if you can pull it off - get between a herd bull and his cows and bugle. As you saw, this sets a bull off into a rage and will usually present a good encounter or shot for you.

 

[12point]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-15 AT 07:45PM (MST)[p]Somthing you need to remember is when an elk is coming to a call he's looking for another elk, he knows exactly where you are and if he doesn't see what he's looking for he'll get suspicious and leave, especially a big herd bull. You said you were less than 20 yards and although you couldn't see him (till you moved) he might have been able to see enough of your location without seeing another elk, so he left. That's one of the reasons when there's 2 or more hunters one stays 30 to 50 yards behind the shooter to do the calling. There's 101 things that can go wrong when calling elk but when it comes together (and it will if you keep at it) you'll have an experience of a lifetime.

 

[Silentstalker]

I will echo bowhunt and elkhunterut. I hunt elk very aggressively. They are noisy critters and I think being too quiet is an alarm or red flag to them.

I also think you made a mistake by talking loudly when you busted the herd of cows. That bull would have ran you over if you had not done that, but instead bugling at him while not talking. You saw his reaction and that was when he knew you were there. Imagine if he truly thought you were another bull that just stole his cows. Getting between a herd bull and his cows is one of the very best situations you can get yourself into!

Lastly this advice is for anyone who may be in your shoes with a pending elk hunt and no elk hunting experience. Go elk hunting while your waiting for your LE tag. Learn the area, learn the habits of the elk, learn how to call and when not to. Fill your freezer with a nice fat cow or spike and set yourself up with a much better chance for success!

All that said, it sounds like you had a great hunt and learned some very valuable lessons for next time. Congrats to you and good luck in your future hunts!

 

[mntman]

Like above, I am very aggressive once I get a bull to bugle. I will sprint to them to close the gap. They hear a elk sound off they expect to hear rocks roll, branches break etc...
Every 100 yards or so I will stop, call and get a response to verify where the bull still is.
I once ran right past a bull around 50 yards. He came out of a meadow he was bugling from and I was running to it. we passed each other around 50 yards or so. I went back and shot him nice 6 point with my bow.
You can do a lot when wind is in your favor.

plus being aggressive makes it more exciting cause of the running, hard breathing, fast paced action vs just sitting some where and hoping the bull you hear 450 yards away will eventually come to you.

Mntman

"Hunting is where you prove yourself"

 

[grizzmoose]

Really appreciate the comments guys. It's nice to get constructive criticism that will help me next time! I guess I need to hope to get an expo tag. Not sure I can handle waiting to draw another state issued one!

 

[mmwb]

The advice above is spot on. I wouldn't look at it as if you made mistakes. Hindsight is always clearer. As stated relative to, " I was too nervous to move in close in fear of spooking them"; success takes risk. You will occasionally blow the elk out, but most who are consistently successful, are fairly aggressive with elk.

 

[littlebighorn]

A few years ago my son killed a nice bull on the Wasatch archery hunt that we retrieved at dark. Early the next morning we went back in to pack it our and while I was sawing a leg bone I suddenly had another big bull screaming and charging in to the sound. It apparently sounded like a bull raking his antlers. The more I sawed the more he screamed. But when I finally bugled back at him, he took off.

If you have the wind in your favor lots of sounds mimic a herd of elk. They are big noisy animals so I have learned it is not bad to sound like them.

I'm not near the elk hunter that bowhunt and others, but I agree that being aggressive is not a bad way to go.

 

[nontypical]

Always wait for 15-20 minutes before giving up on a calling sequence. I don't know how, but bull elk can move in on you extremely quietly!

In my opinion, when that bull began to retreat from your calls, you should have immediately changed to cow calling. That may have been enough to bring him back. He left because he either considered you no threat or because it wasn't worth fighting you over cows he already owned. 10 to 1 odds says he comes back if he thinks you might have taken one of his cows...

 

[DBG3285]

I am always aggressive. I have more success being aggressive than shy. I agree with throwing the hoochie away.

 

[elkassassin]

Get 2 HOOCHIE POOCHIES for each Hand!

(((RAZZIN Ya!)))

2nd Day of the Hunt I Lost My Best Cow Call!

Had to resort to my Spares!

Both Hoochies!

I About PUKED!

Made A Special Trip to Blanding and Monticello to Buy a Call!

WAFJ!

But By GAWD if you wanna buy a WhiteTail Call you can by one of them in Blanding,GEEZUS!

One thing to Think about during the Utah LE Elk Season:

These Bulls have had their Pics taken 100's of times & have Heard every type of Elk Call known to Man & then some for 2-1/2 Months!

75-85 Degree Weather!

Full F'N Moon!

Ya!

Makes it Tough Sometimes!

I Run in to a couple Hunters that were wearing Cologne,Strong enough I could Smell it,So You know Damn Well the Elk were Safe with them 2 Jokers!

I Do Wear My Own Cologne come Elk Season!

Just Ain't nobody that likes the Smell!





Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[SHEDYGAGA]

You know, they give out somewhere in the neighborhood of 650 limited entry tags on that unit each year.

Plus unlimited numbers of over the counter spike tags, they have been giving out 2000 cow tags the last couple years.

Its a unit that sees a lot of hunting. Those elk are not too stupid.

I don't know that it can be said that you did something wrong.
I don't think hunting works that way.

You got a couple chances. Sounds about normal.
I believe the muzzleloader success rate last year on the unit was 62% or something like that. If memory serves me.

30% for archery hunters. Lots of folks eat a muzzleloader tag there. Even more for archery.

If you had a 350 bull that close, its too bad you did not end up with him, but you had a great bull for that unit, in close. Enjoy that.

 

[2_Point]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-15 AT 07:59AM (MST)[p]Guys never get to hunt rutting bulls, then draw a tag and have to hunt in a way they never have before. It isn't your fault, it is the system's. The system has created a false sense of how the hunts are while creating way too much real pressure with a once in 20 years tag.

Look at the comment above about a guy not needing a 370, but wanting a 330-340. That is so far out of the reality of elk hunting most of Utah's limited entry units. 30% of hunters don't kill an elk and the half that do kill sub-310 bulls. 30% of hunters kill a bull over 310 and maybe half of those kill one over 340.

You probably could have better known where the elk were and learned your calls before the hunt. Others gave good advice on what to do. You weren't in the right places if you saw so few elk. Don't beat yourself up too much. Learn from it and go hunt.

 

[drcalderwood]

In my experience, the biggest mistake elk hunters in Utah make during the rut is that they call too much. They get impatient and think they need to keep calling and calling. No matter how good you think you are, the bulls in Utah, especially on the Wasatch, are smart and have heard far too many cow calls and bugles.
I wouldn't even ever bother with a bugle unless you were between a bull and his herd like what happened to you. Other than that, your bugle is going to put the bull on edge and make him drive his cows into some thick timber. I've seen it happen so many times. By the time the muzzle load hunt comes around the big bull already has his harem mostly established. Why does he want to keep fighting off other bulls? He wants to conserve his energy at that point for more important matters, so he's not going to be aggressive at leaving his cows and coming out into the open to fight.
The occasional cow call to locate the bull is your best bet. I usually will let out one or two short little calls just to get a bugle back and locate him. Then I high tail it over to that bull keeping the wind in my favor. Once I get closer I do quite a bit of glassing to really figure out where they are. Once I know where they are, then I set myself up for success and get in position.
As others have said, if you are calling, you need to make noise like an elk would. Step on the occasional stick so the bull doesn't get suspicious.

I just got back from the general hunt on the Wasatch and on opening morning some jack wagon was calling, and calling, and calling with his hyper lips. Stupid idiot was driving all the elk away. I wanted to go slap him.
Unfortunately the elk numbers on the Wasatch are not what they used to be. I did see some big bulls though. I saw a 350ish herd bull that was a dandy and I saw a nice bull around 330 that was all alone. I was surprised to see a bull that big without any cows, but I'm finding fewer and fewer elk on that unit, so it's likely a result of the current slaughter goal by the DWR.

 

[drcalderwood]

Oh and don't beat yourself up over your hunt. This year was a really, really tough year with the heat and bright moon. It totally took the elk out of their normal patters for daylight hours.
I know quite a few people who got skunked with their LE tags for both archery and muzzle loader. It was just a really difficult year. Great camping weather. Bad hunting weather.