Deperdation tags, why?

cantkillathing

cantkillathing

Very Active Member
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Okay if we keep complaining about the deer herd in Utah and how it sucks, we are below objectives in all areas.

So why do they do doe hunts and deperdation tags?

Instead of doe hunts and deperdatation tags, why not trap them and move them to areas where the deer herd can support more deer, Like Elk ridge unit, the elk ridge deer herd could use more doe deer, and it could use a different genetic stran from other areas, and it needs a thousand head of doe. Then in a few years you can increase the buck tag numbers for the LE unit and give more opportunity to hunt a LE unit.

Would this work, I am not a biologist, but it sounds logical to me, what do you think?
 
Cost is a major factor, but deer transplants have proven to be very ineffective. The deer herd on Antelpoe Island is getting to the point where it needs to be reduced in size, I asked the biologist over the island why they don't transplant some of them to areas in Utah that could use more deer. He stated that deer transplants are a poor investment, because the cost is high and the end result is not worth the investment.

If an area is way below objectives, such as the San Juan, it is usually for a reason. I am not familiar with that unit, but I would guess there are habitat/predator problems that are keeping that herd from thriving. Those issues need to be addressed BEFORE adding more deer into the mix.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-08 AT 07:52AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-16-08 AT 07:50?AM (MST)

why is cost a factor, isn't the divisions salary the same regardless of what work they do? I am sure I can find some one to pay for the gas if they will do it. I get paid the same on my job regardless of what duties I perform.

It sounds more like an easy way to not do it by saying it is to expensive, nobody will question it so then we buy off to the fact that it is expensive.

Habitat isn't to bad, beef basin needs addressed for the northern end, 14 years ago when I was still in High school I would go to beef basin in the late november to look at all the deer and big bucks and there use to be well over a thousand head of deer wintering in beef basin. Last years count was 50 head of deer in beef basin, that is coming straight from DWRs mouth.

Also use of dedicated hunters, there is 10,000 people in the program willing to get there hours 10,000 times 24, 240,000 hours at the DWR hands to be used free of charge.
 
The cost to capture the deer would be VERY high. The cost just for the helicopter company to net the animals is significant. When we transplanted bighorns from Antelope Island to the Newfoundland and Stansbury ranges was $30,000+ for 55 animals. Conservation groups like SFW and FNAWS stepped up and footed a good chunk of that, but if it is an ineffective project, I doubt they would pony up money to transplant deer.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
give me $5 for a dart and I can have you a hundred deer for $500. Tell me that aint cost effective? Dont say that this causses to much stress either, Elk ranchers do it all the time and they have more money invested in there elk and probably wouldn't do this if it was going to give a bad result to there life style.

There are ways to do it with out the use of a chopper.
 
Here is my point, the DWR biologists deem transplanting deer futile and WASTING resources that could actually help deer. This is NOT unique to Utah. So, if you feel so strongly about it, I suggest you get a hold of either a DWR biologist and explain how mis-informed they are, or get a hold of MDF/SFW and ask why they don't push this. You seem hell bent on this being a brilliant idea, so go forward with it and see where it gets you. Good luck!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-08 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]I am just saying what is more useful, Killing a deer when unnecassary, or transplanting it to an area that could use it.
Getting a little bent out of shape are you prout. I never said my idea was full proof, just a thought of how to help our elk ridge deer herd some, with genetics and lack of doe deer. If you are going to just kill the doe might as well try something to give it a chance else where? What would it hurt?

So prout, what is your idea then, you seem to always have the correct answers, and everyone else the wrong ones, tell me why you would dispose of 1500 doe deer, when you could use them else where, where the habitat and range can support it.

Didnt they do this to the Henry moutains, how did that work out?
 
DOn't get your panties in a wad big guy. You seem adamant about something, so I am just saying you should act on it.

Using your 'logic', as long as we have low numbers of bucks/does anywhere in Utah we shouldn't kill ANY deer, just merely transplant them from ridge to ridge. Instead of killing them big bucks on the Henries, we should be transplanting them to other areas to 'improve' the genetics. Let's burn millions od dollars transplanting deer, and not kill a single one until there are deer on every square yard.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I think this would be a great way to help the elk or deer on any unit. I can see where money would come into play.. But remember the dwr is all about making the green not spending it.. Its ineffective Pro? If i remember right thats how the henrys got as good as it is today is buy transplanting deer from san juan elk ridge.. How about the successfull elk heard that is now thriving in Kentucky.. They were transplanted from UTAH..
 
So what makes you think that the wildlife officials use logic to do anything...? I know up on Mt. Borah, they transplanted sheep from arizona, new mexico and thats a long ways away! Moving does to another part in the state sounds logical to me. And the cost would be less than half of what idaho payed to move the sheep to Borah several years ago.
 
Using your 'logic', as long as we have low numbers of bucks/does anywhere in Utah we shouldn't kill ANY deer, just merely transplant them from ridge to ridge. Instead of killing them big bucks on the Henries, we should be transplanting them to other areas to 'improve' the genetics. Let's burn millions od dollars transplanting deer, and not kill a single one until there are deer on every square yard.

This is far from what I am saying. The Division has used transplanting in the paste, Henry mountains, look at it now.

Instead of disposing of 1500 doe deer put them where it can be sustained, and come on- millions of dollars, if you are going to use those numbers give me a cost break down. Also nothing was said about transplanting the bucks.

I am not adamant about this just an Idea and wanted to hear pro and cons about it. I would like to know the real cost of it, and why is it stated to be so costly, because in my thoughts it could be done at a reasonable cost.
 
I can't believe you guys are whining so much over 700 tags. You act like they gave out 10,000 deer tags.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

National guard archery staff shooter
 
Just because transplants work for some species does NOT mean it works for ALL species. Sheep/elk transplants have worked great, but the only ones I know of where for either introducing animals to new areas, or to booster 'new' herds. I ask for ONE example in the last 10 years where mule deer transplants have taken place anywhere in the states. There is a reason t=it is NOT used. Turkey transplants work, pheasant transplants do NOT. Each specie is different, just because it works for sheep doesn't mean it will work for deer. As I stated, ALL the sheep transplants in Utah are done to establish herds, not to overcome low numbers due to die-off on units like the San Juan. If that herd is hurting, it is because there is a valid reason for it, just dropping off more deer will NOT solve the problem. A bandaid applied when a tourniquet is needed, it accomplishes little. The best way to increase the deer herd on a specific unit is through habitat improvement, cooperation from the weather, and keeping predator numbers under control.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-08 AT 11:18AM (MST)[p]Alpine you might want to read the whole post before chimming in or else you sound like an idiot. we are not whinning about the deer being killed, just wondering why they don't utilize them in another way is my complaint.

Again lets hear some pro's and cons to transplanting deer.

Besides the cost part of it unless you can give me a cost breakdown of how much it really cost, and how you came up with the cost.

Okay Pro, give me an example where they have tried it and it didn't work?

Again I am not adamant about it but just trying to see why it wouldn't work. I dont know where it has been tried and hasn't been successful.
 
I have read every word of this post and I know exactly what I am talking about. If a herd is hurting dumping 200 deer in area with 150 dear isn't going to help if the habitat only allows 150 deer. how about we take that transplant cash and fix the habitat. If you don't know deer multiply almost like rabbits with good food water and shelter from predators, so lets fix that and the deer will grow themselves in no time.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

National guard archery staff shooter
 
Here's a solution, use the doe tag money ONLY for habitat improvement: water projects, predator control, etc. Then get out there and hunt the predators in the offseason in those units that need it. Finally, get your state to manage smaller regions for specific habitat concerns.
 
"give me $5 for a dart and I can have you a hundred deer for $500."


BRILLIANT!!! We've got a guy who can transplant deer for $5 a head!!! And those silly "biologists" needed to use helicopters all this time, they obviously just werent trying hard enough.

And we've wasted all this time worrying about predators, fire, winter ranges, logging, grazing, development, noxious weeds, etc., etc., etc. When all along the answer was righ under our noses, shoot does with tranquilizer darts, and transplant them anywhere in the country for a mere $5 each!! BRILLIANT!!!
 
Good one IDd, Now seriously, I found a link on deer tranplant's.It is http//wildlife.ut.gov/wr/0712capture/0712/capture.pdf

It states that in most case's when deer have been captured and transported into new habitat's, they have scattered and traveled long distances resulting in low survial rates.
 
Good link goofyelk, thanks. On page 11 of 19 it states: "Mule deer is the one big game species in Utah that does not do well when it's transplanted. We can capture and transplant deer into new habitat, but once they're released, deer scatter rapidly and travel long distances from their release site. This results in low survival rates, and the desired objective--a new, thriving popualtion near the area where the deer were released--is NEVER reached."

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I participated in an antelope capture here in NV this year. We captured some 245 antelope, released about 60 bucks and a few does on the spot, and released 187 at the new release site. 7 or 9 died as a result of the trapping effort. The use was a helicopter, and a bunch of volunteers and NDOW employees in pick-ups. The cost of the chopper was $250/head if I remember right. Nevada Bighorns unlimited fronted the majority of the cost for the operation. Bighorn sheep, elk and antelope are transplanted in this and other states on a regular basis every year. Deer are not. I asked why, and the biologists simply stated that the mortality rate would be much higher. The deer simply cannot handle the stress of the transplant, and do not do well in their new homes. They were saying 75% or better of the deer dying. The others average about 3-4%. Also, if the habitat is in good shape, it will support more deer than there are currently. By habitat I mean everything, browse, excape cover from predators, moisture, etc.

Later,

Marcial
 
LAST EDITED ON May-25-08 AT 08:13PM (MST)[p]LOL IDDesertman! That was "Brilliant"!

How many of you have read about the great Kaibab drive with Goerge McCormick(I believe that was his name)and writer Zane Grey back in the 20's? It was supposed to be a simple task moving thousands of muleys from one side of the grand canyon to the other, to slow down the rapid over-browsing from a high-density population of muleys on the North Rim.

With hundreds of paid Navajos and cowboys on horseback and bells, they pushed the running deer towards the canyon rim. The deer got to the edge where they were to be funneled into the canoyon and decided they didn't quite want to cooperate n more, and sent men scattering behind trees for their lives...

My point is, I believe the group leader was promised 2 or 3 dollars for each deer he gets to the other side...Kinda reminded me of this post. $5 a head? I'll pitch in 25$ if you can promise it'll safely relocate 5 healthy does. Pretty soon we may be calling you "Cantanesthitizeathing"..No hard feelings. :)
 

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