Q/HD rule - In favor of keeping the new rule in effect

1FastGambler

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-06-09 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p]If you wish to keep the new rule in effect, please contact the NM Game & Fish at [email protected]. We have until November 1st.

Since people that are against it took the time to "Petition" the new rule, we must make our voice heard also or the "squeaky wheel" will get the grease and the new rule will be abolished.

[http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/documents/q_hd_rule.html]



"WIndage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
Thank you. I just wrote them in support of the proposed elimination of the new rule. It wasn't well thought out in the first place.
 
I hate to post here but I believe it said til nov 1. everytime I get involved all the chicken chits run, but when your false n your info id run too!
 
>Thank you. I just wrote
>them in support of the
>proposed elimination of the new
>rule. It wasn't well
>thought out in the first
>place.

I also support the elimination of the Q/HD rule. I'm a bow hunter and the old rules worked very well for me.
-- Bob
 
Yea, thanks. I just emailed them to say that I was in favor of getting that stupid, ill thought out rule off the books before it hurts more hunters.



JBone
 
Please post WHY you want to keep the Q/HD Rule in effect?!

I am strongly opposed to it for many reasons and honestly can't understand why people are for it.

Here are my reasons AGAINST.

I'm not trying to bash, just want some data as to why you are for it. Thus far the only reason I've heard for it are that "it will make it easier to draw" without any backup data or calcs. I looked at some numbers and don't see enough improvement to be worth having to sit out of the Q/HD draw hunts for a year.

Carl

-----------------------------------------------------

NM Game & Fish and NM Game Commission:

I appreciate that the Commission and Department seeks input from the public when considering changes to the current rules and regulations. I strongly believe that the Q/HD Rule (as defined to mean hunters who successfully draw a Q/HD tag may not apply for any Q/HD tag the following year) should not be implemented.

My feelings and analysis are based on Resident tag allocations and draw odds, as I feel that NM G&F should first and foremost be serving the Resident hunter?s needs.

As a side note, I do not believe that the term ?Quality? really serves much purpose except a way to charge non-residents more $ (I am unaware of any other western states that utilize similar terminology).
It is my understanding that the intent of the Q/HDR Rule was to placate hunters who complain they ?hadn't drawn in years, while Joe Hunter drew a tag for the past several years in a row?. While the intentions may have been noble, please find several reasons why I believe the Q/HD Rule simply does not make sense and is not in the best interest of NM sportsmen and women.

1. The first, and I feel, most compelling reason against the Q/HD Rule is that the elimination of successful applicants the following year may at best only provide a minimal increase for the odds of the remaining applicants. Take for instance a few popular hunts as follows, based on the NM G&F Draw Odds Report 2008-9 (note: statistics were evaluated for Residents only):
? Unit 15 ELK-2-237 (2nd Season Archery): 156 tags/1,166 applicants = 13.3% draw odds. The following year(s) if the 156 successful applicants were not allowed to apply: 156 tags/1,010 applicants = 15.4%. Net change 1.1% increase.
? Unit 16C ELK-1-264 (Mature Bull 1st Season Rifle): 39 tags/2,085 applicants = 1.8%. The following year(s) if the 39 successful applicants were not allowed to apply: 39 tags/2,046 applicants = 1.9%. Net change 0.1% increase.
? Unit 17 Elk-3-289 (Mature Bull 1st Season Muzzle): 76 tags/1,522 applicants = 4.9%. The following year(s) if the 76 successful applicants were not allowed to apply: 76 tags/1,446 applicants = 5.2%. Net change 0.3% increase.
As clearly evidenced, for the more popular hunts (which are the reason for the issue in the first place), removing the successful applicants from the pool increases odds only minimally for the remaining applicants. Meanwhile, the successful applicant would be unable to apply for any Q/HD hunt the following year, effectively making for draw odds of zero! The proposed rule hurts the successfully-drawn sportsmen far more than it helps the remaining applicants.

2. A large portion of the successfully-drawn hunters who become ineligible for any Q/HD hunts would likely apply for S hunts. Therefore, with the increase in the number of hunters applying for S hunts, it is not unreasonable to expect that many of the S hunts would receive enough NR applicants to exceed the NR quota and cause them to be classified as HD hunts, further exacerbating the problem as fewer and fewer S hunts remain as viable choices for previously-successful applicants.

3. Because a higher percentage of archery elk and deer hunts are classified as Q or HD (with Q only being an arbitrary definition), the rule does not affect all types of weapons equally. Bowhunters quickly find that after being drawn, they may be ineligible to apply for the majority of Archery hunts, while Muzzle and Rifle hunters would not be affected to the same extent. Because the Q/HD Rule is unfair, it should not be implemented.

4. Based on the NM G&F Draw Odds Report 2008-9, some of the Q archery deer hunts actually have leftover tags (see for instance DER-2-315/Unit 40 and DER-2-366/Unit 29). It makes no sense whatsoever to eliminate successful applicants from the pool the following year when there aren't even enough applicants for the number of tags!

5. The Q/HD Rule will have a detrimental effect on the Valles Caldera?s ability to generate revenue. Because the VC bull hunts are classified as Q, a large number of applicants would be ineligible to purchase lottery tags for the VC following a successful draw. I personally purchase at least $150 each year on lottery tickets and within just a close handful of friends know for a fact that we purchase in excess of $1,500 annually on VC lottery tickets, which would be revenue lost by the VC if we could not apply. At a time when the VC is scratching for the finances to become self sustaining, the Q/HD Rule may very well be a death blow.

I appreciate your diligent review of all comments received.

Carl
 
I guess I must just be a stupid redneck. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how this rule can cause more than a one time SMALL increase in draw odds. Sure, it eliminates applicants from the draw pool, for one year! They'll be right back in there the next. So it's a one time shot unless there is something else in there I can't see...... Someone care to explain it WITHOUT being an 4$$? I am starting to think that, yeah something could be done to make things better but this DOES NOT sound like the way to go.
 
Get rid of UW. tags, especially the small contributing ranch.

Reduce NR. tags (may have to raise fees to offset losses)

This would be a hard fight with land owners and outfitters but would do more than anything else I have seen.
 
The outfitters would be hard to beat on that. They argue that they make their living on hunts and reduced tags that they can buy will affect their livlihood. I can see their point but they also don't take into account that their livlihood is taking away an American tradition slowly but surely. I have a close friend that is in this boat but he supplements his living by doing taxidermy waork and other things. This new breed of outfitters is trying to make the dream job and make enough money to live off in two to three months. Sorry guys, I know you're on here, but I don't think you're ideas are in the best interest of hunting. As for the UW SCR tags? You're going to have quite the fight also. I haven't come to a conclusion on how I feel exactly on this one yet. You can't give them RO tags because most of them are 10-20 acre plots which, come on, you can't expect someone to pay for. And if you were to use it yourself how much chance of tagging an elk would you really have? They give them out to offset the damage elk might do to property but let's face it, most of these places are in canyons and the elk only show up at night! I do think there are too many tags given out but how do you divvy them up? If YOU lived up there wouldn't you feel like you should be able to get a tag to hunt your home turf?
 
>I guess I must just be
>a stupid redneck. I, for
>the life of me, cannot
>understand how this rule can
>cause more than a one
>time SMALL increase in draw
>odds. Sure, it eliminates applicants
>from the draw pool, for
>one year! They'll be right
>back in there the next.
>So it's a one time
>shot unless there is something
>else in there I can't
>see...... Someone care to explain
>it WITHOUT being an 4$$?
>I am starting to think
>that, yeah something could be
>done to make things better
>but this DOES NOT sound
>like the way to go.
>
________________________________________________________________

I said I was done with this topic in my last post and yet here I am again. Somebody shoot me!

Cockie2,
You are right & wrong. Yes they will be out for one year and right back in. That's the point! But guess what... Same thing happens with the people that drew tags the next year. Why do you think the cycle ends the first year? Can you not see past the end of your nose? Are you really just a stupid redneck?

It is NOT a one time thing. Odds will be increased every year that the rule is in effect.

Overall increase for archery Elk Q/HD hunts is 14.1%!!!! Now sit down and shut up. I'm sick of reading your posts that do nothing but bad mouth other people. You had the gall to call me a liberal because I am in favor of this rule and then you ask us to give you an explanation without being an ?4$$?. You are a hypocrite and an idiot.

One more time I will try and get my point across even thou you are not listening. Stop the name calling and childishness for one moment. You keep asking me and the other Q/HD rule supporters to show you our reasoning and I have in the previous post on this topic, but I guess you're to lazy to go back and read it.

As I see it there are two reasons that the Q/HD rule is positive and one potentially negative thing. Assuming that everyone puts in for the same weapon type:

1. Odds are increased dramatically

Q/HD Elk...
5609 1st choice applicants for Q/HD archery elk hunts.

1747 successful 1st choice for Q/HD Archery Elk
734 successful 2nd & 3rd choices for the same
2,481 TOTAL successful applicants taken OUT of the pool for Q/HD Archery Elk hunts.

That is a 44.3% reduction in applicants the following year!!

If you think that every archery elk hunter that applied for an S type hunt as their first choice will apply for Q/HD you are wrong. Yes of course some will, but there is no way to estimate how many.

There were 3997 1st choice applicants for ?S? type archery elk tags. Add the 3997 to the 5609 for Q/HD applicants and we should have the total number of resident hunters that applied for archery elk this year ? 9,606. (Everyone has one 1st choice, so this IS everyone!)

Back to the #1 reason ? The odds are DRAMATICALLY increased.

Reason 2.

Many youth tags are either Q or Q/HD. Our youth WILL have a much better chance of drawing a true quality tag every other year. If the commission would make hunts like the 16C & 34 youth only ES elk hunt a HD type hunt their odds would increase enough to where every youth would have a very good chance to fill a tag at least every other year.


The odds are increased WAY more than what you think they are. The fact you are missing is that the number of hunters is finite and that the odds will be increased by whatever the actual % is per each hunt code for the life of the Q/HD rule. It doesn't go away after the 1st year!

Ok, now I'm really done beating this dead horse?









"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
Cookie2 I agree there is no easy answer. I come from a Ranching family (not in elk country) and know alot of people who do ranch in elk country so I am kinda torn on the whole LO. tag issue myself. Most of the people I know that receive SCR. tags moved to where ever they are at because they wanted to be out and close to animals and could not "ranch" if they had to. Moving somewere that has elk and then complain about damage done by them wanting a tag to reimbuse you is like moving next to an airport and then complaining about the noise. I do not have a problem with a small land owner receiving a tag but feel they should have to show some improvement to benefit wildlife to receive them. You are also correct about it being a BIG fight with the outfitters, I would hate for anybody to go out of business because of it but I feel the good ones would adapt just like any other business has had to. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think any other state has such liberal LO.tags and the outfitters still are able to make a living.
Elk hunting in NM. has become big business and we just keep giving more and more stimulus like our great leader and now people think that it is owed to them. I wont even begin to pretend I know how to fix this but I think something needs to change. The whole thing about better draws odds though, I don't think either way will make a differance, the best units will always be hard to draw no matter what.
 
3. Because a higher percentage of archery elk and deer hunts are classified as Q or HD (with Q only being an arbitrary definition), the rule does not affect all types of weapons equally. Bowhunters quickly find that after being drawn, they may be ineligible to apply for the majority of Archery hunts, while Muzzle and Rifle hunters would not be affected to the same extent. Because the Q/HD Rule is unfair, it should not be implemented


This way I am vote NO for the Rule for Q/HD. I am a bowhunter and love my sport. Thanks Guys for helping out.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-09 AT 07:07PM (MST)[p]First of all gambler, I called STINKYSTOMPER the liberal. If it hurt your precious feelings so badly that you are going to need therapy because you took it SOOO personally, well.... send me the damn bill!! And yet you INSIST on calling me COCKY, who's the name caller? It's all good though, my skin is pretty thick!
I was trying to get some insight into how I just could be missing a part of the picture but it is obvious that YOU don't have a clue.
I just spent several minutes of my life running some of the numbers for myself and I can't figure out how you got yours.
I got 3736 total Q/HD tags for bow elk. Multiplied by .78 because 22% goes to NR you get 2914. Your applicant numbers left a LOT to be desired. The way the NM draw works you have just as good a chance drawing a third choice as a fisrt so you HAVE to figure all three choices. Total number of resident applicants was 14,609. 2914 divided by 14,609 and you get 19.95% chance? Is it really a chance or rather the percentage of applicants who will draw? Now, take your 2914 successful applicants out of the picture and divide the same 2,914 by 11,695 and you get 24.92%. Looks like a little less than 5% increase to me.
Now, do you honestly(or is that a little too hard for you to accomplish given you quest for EQUALITY) think those 2914 are going to sit out the next years draw again? I believe they will right back in there replacing the ones who have to sit out. This gives you a ONE TIME SHOT. 5% increase ONCE.
Also I NEVER said that S applicants would put in Q/HD. What I said was....Now get the peanut butter out of your ears for this one..... The ones who were going to have to sit out would be putting in for S hunts instead of sitting at home for a season! I think that most of them are hunters and if they can't hunt the monsters they will settle for just hunting. I for one will be putting in for rifle deer next year since your precious rule says I cannot bowhunt the ENTIRE SE corner of the state! And I don't think I will be alone out there doing it.
 
>3. Because a higher percentage of
>archery elk and deer hunts
>are classified as Q or
>HD (with Q only being
>an arbitrary definition), the rule
>does not affect all types
>of weapons equally. Bowhunters quickly
>find that after being drawn,
>they may be ineligible to
>apply for the majority of
>Archery hunts, while Muzzle and
>Rifle hunters would not be
>affected to the same extent.
>Because the Q/HD Rule is
>unfair, it should not be
>implemented
>
>
>This way I am vote NO
>for the Rule for Q/HD.
>I am a bowhunter and
>love my sport. Thanks Guys
>for helping out.


Your mama must have been the only one in the history of man that didn't teach her little boy LIFE ISN'T FAIR!!!!!!!!!

How is it fair that the state has to provide a living for all these landowners and outfitters? They don't do shi!!! to supplement my income. Anyone have a guess as to the smallest piece of property that gets a unit wide landowner permit in unit 15?

2 acres yes sir 2 acres!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-09
>AT 07:07?PM (MST)

>
>First of all gambler, I called
>STINKYSTOMPER the liberal. If it
>hurt your precious feelings so
>badly that you are going
>to need therapy because you
>took it SOOO personally, well....
>send me the damn bill!!
>And yet you INSIST on
>calling me COCKY, who's the
>name caller? It's all good
>though, my skin is pretty
>thick!
> I was trying to get
>some insight into how I
>just could be missing a
>part of the picture but
>it is obvious that YOU
>don't have a clue.
> I just spent several minutes
>of my life running some
>of the numbers for myself
>and I can't figure out
>how you got yours.
> I got 3736 total Q/HD
>tags for bow elk. Multiplied
>by .78 because 22% goes
>to NR you get 2914.
>Your applicant numbers left a
>LOT to be desired. The
>way the NM draw works
>you have just as good
>a chance drawing a third
>choice as a fisrt so
>you HAVE to figure all
>three choices. Total number of
>resident applicants was 14,609. 2914
>divided by 14,609 and you
>get 19.95% chance? Is it
>really a chance or rather
>the percentage of applicants who
>will draw? Now, take your
>2914 successful applicants out of
>the picture and divide the
>same 2,914 by 11,695 and
>you get 24.92%. Looks like
>a little less than 5%
>increase to me.
> Now, do you honestly(or is
>that a little too hard
>for you to accomplish given
>you quest for EQUALITY) think
>those 2914 are going to
>sit out the next years
>draw again? I believe they
>will right back in there
>replacing the ones who have
>to sit out. This gives
>you a ONE TIME SHOT.
>5% increase ONCE.
> Also I NEVER said that
>S applicants would put in
>Q/HD. What I said was....Now
>get the peanut butter out
>of your ears for this
>one..... The ones who were
>going to have to sit
>out would be putting in
>for S hunts instead of
>sitting at home for a
>season! I think that most
>of them are hunters and
>if they can't hunt the
>monsters they will settle for
>just hunting. I for one
>will be putting in for
>rifle deer next year since
>your precious rule says I
>cannot bowhunt the ENTIRE SE
>corner of the state! And
>I don't think I will
>be alone out there doing
>it.
________________________________________________________________

Cockie2 was a typo, but thanks for pointing that out cuz that's some FUNNY CHIT! It'll be your new name now!!

I don't need therapy, but I'll send you a bill anyway.

Go back to school and learn basic arithmetic.

You're wrong & I'm right. Get over it.




"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
"Q/HD Elk...
5609 1st choice applicants for Q/HD archery elk hunts.

1747 successful 1st choice for Q/HD Archery Elk
734 successful 2nd & 3rd choices for the same
2,481 TOTAL successful applicants taken OUT of the pool for Q/HD Archery Elk hunts.

That is a 44.3% reduction in applicants the following year!!"

WTH ??

You deduct the successful 2nd and 3rd choice applicants but don't use 2nd and 3rd choice pools in the total calculation?
 
>"Q/HD Elk...
>5609 1st choice applicants for Q/HD
>archery elk hunts.
>
>1747 successful 1st choice for Q/HD
>Archery Elk
>734 successful 2nd & 3rd choices
>for the same
>2,481 TOTAL successful applicants taken OUT
>of the pool for Q/HD
>Archery Elk hunts.
>
>That is a 44.3% reduction in
>applicants the following year!!"
>
>WTH ??
>
>You deduct the successful 2nd and
>3rd choice applicants but don't
>use 2nd and 3rd choice
>pools in the total calculation?
________________________________________________________________

That is correct. Think about it.




"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
My issue with it is that if you kick that many people out of the Q/HD hunts they will apply for the standard hunts thus making them Q/HD. Which makes those who would rather go hunting each year than waiting five years for a good chance at killing a better animal pay the price.

Anyway thats just my two cents

I would rather leave the system the way it was but if I was going to change it I would adopt a system like Nevada where you chance of drawing increases each year you are unsuccessful.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-09 AT 10:08PM (MST)[p]>My issue with it is that
>if you kick that many
>people out of the Q/HD
> hunts they will apply
>for the standard hunts thus
>making them Q/HD. Which makes
>those who would rather go
>hunting each year than waiting
>five years for a good
>chance at killing a better
>animal pay the price.
>
>Anyway thats just my two cents
>
>
>I would rather leave the system
>the way it was but
>if I was going to
>change it I would adopt
>a system like Nevada where
>you chance of drawing increases
>each year you are unsuccessful.
>
________________________________________________________________

I disagree because there is not enough people effected by the Q/HD to make that type of an impact on the S type hunts.

Besides the HD designation only comes from non-residents and I doubt very seriously that they will turn around and start putting in for the lesser units.

I've never said that the Q/HD rule is perfect. I agree with it becuase I want better odds of drawing for my two boys and for myself... DUH! The Q/HD rule, although not perfect, acheives that with very little to nothing on the negative side. It has been said that the Caldera will suffer and in fact it may. I personally think the impact to the lottery tags for the Caldera will be very minimal at best and even if it did have a dramatic effect on the financial status of the Caldera I personally don't care because it will never work the way it is anyway. The Caldera is a magnaficent place that should be enjoyed by anyone who wants to see it and would be better serving if it were controlled by the Nat'l Forest system with a wilderness designation. Same as the Gila Wilderness or the Aldo Leupold wilderness, etc. Put all the Caldera tags into the public draw!

The Q/HD rule increases odds for everyone who did not draw a Q/HD tag the prior year. The initial increase in odds will stay the same, they do not increase exponentially, but they are still increased EVERY YEAR.

_______________________________________

-- Come on Cockie2... IT IS NOT A ONE TIME SHOT at increasing odds! I'll use small, single digit numbers so you have a chance to understand. Let's say there are 4 hunters applying for 2 Q/HD tags, two of them drew and two didn't. 4(hunters)-2(tags)=2(unsuccessful who can apply next year). For the first year of the new rule we have 2 people applying for 2 tags and the following year we add back the 2 people that had to sit out and subtract the 2 that drew this year. 2+2-2=2. Do you get it now dummie?

Why is that a bad thing? I'll bet that 99% of the people who are complaining about this rule are the ones that are effected first because they are bummed out that they can't put in for the same hunt next year! I know this is a fact with every person that I personally know who disagrees with the Q/HD rule.

Give the dang thing a chance to work and it WILL WORK!


"Windage & Elevation Pilgrim, Windage & Elevation"
 
thanks now my tongues bleeding! the problem with keeping the system the way it is, is that the odds are getting worse every year in every unit! the demand for tags is increasing every year! pretty soon your going to hear everyone complaining about how they can't draw tags! oh yeah here we are!
cookie it does help every year even if the increasing demand takes the odds back down, they are going to be better than without the rule.
 
>thanks now my tongues bleeding! the
>problem with keeping the system
>the way it is, is
>that the odds are getting
>worse every year in every
>unit! the demand for tags
>is increasing every year! pretty
>soon your going to hear
>everyone complaining about how they
>can't draw tags! oh yeah
>here we are!
>cookie it does help every year
>even if the increasing demand
>takes the odds back down,
>they are going to be
>better than without the rule.
>
 
Wow!

Can we start with an English class, and then stats 101!

Whatever your stance is, I hope you do not go in front of the commission!
 
I'm glad to see that some people are thinking on both sides of the issue.

I do see that the rule will likely help NRs way more than residents. But as a resident of NM I don't think we should cater to the NRs at the expense of residents.

I had not thought to use the total number of all applicants for Q/HD tags to come up with a gross approximation, but it is a valid approach and I'll do some homework.

However, the way the draw works in NM, Choices 1-3 all need to be considered when calculating odds.

As a resident I still don't like to think I'll have a ZERO chance for a Q/HD hunt at some point; I prefer to have a chance every year and I think our draw system is the fairest out there.

The definition of Q units definitely skews things because there are some Q units that aren't in fact very good hunts (talking archery).

Furthermore the defnition of HD can change from year to year in some units (although Gila, etc. will never change).

I guess I just don't see the need to implement the Q/HD. Sure, we are playing the lottery and not everybody can win. But EVERYBODY has the same chance of winning. We don't need to penalize somebody who got lucky just because somebody else happened to be unlucky. If you enter the draw for multiple years the "luck" will average out without the need to implement the Q/HD....
 
smarba you need to think how fair the system truley is. for one 10 yrs back you had better than 30+% draw odds now they are less than 10%, pretty soon they will be at less than 1% odds! we need a new system to help improve these odds. I can and do hunt multiple states and will take my kids on hunts through out the west, but not many people can afford to do this for themselves let alone their kids. and one day my kids are going to be off the tag bus and I really hope they don't have to pray for a tag! nm has one of the luckiest draw systems there is. and the g&f is at least trying to do something. im no longer for this rule im for a bonus point plan now.
 
Fair? How much more fair can "everybody has the same odds" be?!

The odds will only continue to go down in ALL states because there are more hunters than tags. It will never get back to 30-50-80% draw odds. There is no system that will increase odds. The only way to increase odds is at the expense of somebody else.

We could raise fees a lot - sure that would reduce applicants and increase the odds for those who could afford to apply, but it hurts a lot of people too.

Bonus Points or Preference Points. Neither one is the magic solution: look at states that have them. Places like CO one will NEVER catch up to the # of points needed to draw the most sought after tags. There are simply too many people w/ points in line ahead of beginners and not enough tags to ever take care of the people ahead in line.

Places like AZ it's almost impossible to calculate odds, but it's very obvious that drawing a tag, even for residents is very difficult.

All BP or PPs to is effectively reduce one's chances for a long time in order to increase chances someday.

I come back to how fair is fair?! I've never heard losers in the lotto or powerball wanting past winners to not be eligible!

For NRs BPs or PPs may make some sense, because you can plan and figure out when you will be likely to draw a tag and save vacation, etc. For residents I certainly find it more preferable to know I have a chance every year and that chance is just the same as everybody else's chance.
 
lmao, alright go to the draw odds link on this page and look at how az's bp system improves your odds each year you don't draw, you have a chance every year even with 0 bp's! and yes those are the true odds as people applied last year! az figures these odds every year and it works! an elk tag in nm is like playing the lotto! except they get my money in fees every year and yes I want you to have a better chance at drawing if I have already held a tag. it works and its coming! and yes I can show you how to get great draw odds in a few short years. but id prefer you just check the link!
 
My point was that it goes up 5% the first year but does not go up another 5% the next because the original "sitters" will be back in the pool. That is what I meant by one time shot.
Also I agree that this rule is biased against bowhunters.... the least likely to do great harm to the game population but in some cases, the least amount of tags. Gambler you really should re-read your posts about insults as it seems that's all you have. In Communication classes it's called diversion and is a way to get your "opponent" to forget about the discussion at hand. Usually used when one feels they are losing the argument.
 
cookie you got to admit the "cockie" one was funny, even more so because it wasn't meant, but was! I see how you get the one time jump. but if you leave this rule to see the increase, you would see a loss when you take it back out!
 
And by the way yes we could have 20-30-even 40 or 50% odds BY DRAWING FIRST CHOICE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!NO MORE DRAWING BY BY "LUCKY APP BS"
 
I believe you are right Jacob. If they did it that way we would be closer to the methods of other states where I believe they draw all first choices, shuffle, second choices, shuffle and third if any left after. I wish we could get things narrowed down to something like that and possibly limit apps to one weapon choice. Too many applying for bow hunts that have NO CLUE what they would do if they drew it! Oh well, lot's of sloutions on here. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what uncle Bill's tards come up with this time around and figure out what we can B!tch about afterwards!!!
Hornhunter, I WILL NOT ADMIT THAT GUY SAID ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY FUNNY!!! Oh, wait, just about everything he says is funny. He's a funny guy. Is good for a laugh when I think about it!
 
hey cookie I can't go to the meeting in dec.I'll be hunting in texas but if you go please bring it up.The system back in the late 90s everyone drew tags often.Noone seems to remember that.Then nm voted in this fat tard of a governer and he appointed this new comish that seems to be trying to do things the easy way.This curent sys also must be a lot cheeper because it only has to be done once.
By the way your mom is hard core that ibex is so cool tell her congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'll look at AZ draw odds website with regards to BPs and how it works for residents, I admit I've never researched/understood the process. Perhaps it has merit. IMO Preference Points such as CO absolutely do not have merit for residents, perhaps make sense for NRs, but I don't want a split system.

The 1st choice, shuffle, 2nd choice, shuffle, 3rd was the way it used to be in NM, but too many people whined they didn't understand the process (go figure, they put down Gila for choices 1-3) and that they never drew...so G&F/Commission decided to go to the current 1-2-3 choices all looked at once.

Only one thing is true: No matter the system, there will always be whiners!!!
 

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