fishon
Very Active Member
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Here is what I have always thought and preached as to a long term and short term solution. Taking into account opportunity and quality with the main intent of the deer 1st, recruiting kids second, opportunity 3rd and trophy 4th. Again this is my opinion and not that of MDF's or anyone else.
1. I am a big fan of not running anyone else out of the hunting world, meaning I do not want to see permits cut any further. Now I am not against it but that is a LAST resort in my opinion.
Once we cut tags we will never get them back and that means lost hunters and traditions.
2. I am also a big fan of smaller managed units. My ideal size would be taking each of our 5 units and splitting them into 5 sub units thus having 25 units statewide. With 25 units we could still have traditional hunting parties for families yet be able to more closly monitor deer populations and harvest in a given area. It would also allow the state to move hunters numbers from each sub unit if needed. I would manage these sub units for 15 bucks per 100 does and I would let everyone have 5 choices for hunt areas and all would be valid. This would un questionably spread out hunter pressure and make it appear as to less hunters. Also Statewide archery would be just that, statewide. Of course the Premium units would not be included in statewide archery.
3. I would leave about 5 premium areas meaning 35+ bucks per 100 does. It would be Hernry Mtns,Paunsaugunt, Book Cliffs, Vernon and Crawford Mtn. This would make a limited entry Premium unit in each of the 5 main regions. Thus Spreading out the limited hunting opportunity for the masses yet make and keep top quality areas for some trophy opportunity. None of these premium deer units would be limited entry elk units.
This also opens up some areas for a General season type hunt (South Slope, Oak Creek,San Juan, Thousand Lake and La Sal. Creating more areas for the general season hunter thus spreading out the hunters.
4.Now on the Premium hunting deer units I would have year around lion hunting seasons with no quota's. Also each one of the premium deer units would be open bull elk units meaning tags can be bought over the counter and there is no limit on the archery permits. We know that elk and deer compete and we know that lions eat deer. So my questions is if we do this on the Henry Mtns already to protect the deer heard, why don't we do it on the Paunsaungunt, Bookcliffs etc? This is not a bash on lions or elk it is simply giving our premium deer units the best chance to be just that, PREMIUM.
This would also increase opportunity for people who wanted to hunt elk that otherwise never would.
5. Now if 35-40 bucks per 100 does for premium deer is our goal then that should also be our managment plan for elk. Elk units with 60 to 100 bulls per 100 cows is way to much and overkill. We can and would create more opportunity for hunters if we killed more of our under utilized elk thus also reducing the pressure on our deer.
6. I would like there to be a 5 year wait on these premium deer units as well. Thus intitially increasing the chance to draw.
7. I would take 10% of every premium deer and elk tag in the state and 10% of every genral season deer and limited entry elk tag and make them for kids 18 and under only. Statistics show we must recruit them at a young age or we never get them. Also once a kid drew a premium youth tag they then are in-eligible to draw another as a youth but can put in for the regular limited entry tags as well as General season tags and the premium regular draw tags. Thus giving them a taste of a "trophy hunt" but letting the youth tags be spread around.
8. I would then take our elk units and take all of the rifle tags out of the rut (excluding premium units). We know that a rifle tag in the rut for elk is not a hunt. It is a death sentence for the elk. Just like a rifle deer hunt in the rut is not a hunt it is a deer slaughter. (this is why we don't have rifle deer rut hunts)
Put the archery season in the rut for elk thus being able to double the amount of archery permits. Move the Rifle hunt to the 1st part of October thus doubling those permits and moving the muzzle loader hunt to November doubling those permits. This would create a lot more hunting opportunity and greatly increase drawing odds.
Now I would have 6 premium elk units for the guy that doesn't want to hunt elk he just wants to kill elk. What I mean by that is a middle of the rut, with your rifle, elk everywhere type hunt, that you get 1 time in your life if you are lucky. This would be the elk hunts of elk hunts.
These units could be PAhvant,Beaver,Monroe,Boulder,San Juan and Dutton. These units could have the best elk hunting in the world but be very limited as to how many tags. This would be the guys once in a lifetime elk hunt so to speak. Now understand that deer hunting will suffer on these units but it is a trade off for the premium deer units where the elk will suffer. None of these premium elk untis would be premium deer units. I would also have year around lion hunting with no quota on these units as well.
9. I would keep bonus points instead of go to preferance points. I also would only give 25% of the tags to the most bonus points instead of 50%. Then everyone would be in for the remaining 75%. This would also give new hunters a feeling that they might draw.
10. I would charge more for the premium elk and deer tags. What the price is I don't know but if you get premium seats at the Jazz game you pay more then if you sit in the upper deck. So yes there is a greater value.
11. Now the rest of the elk units in the state would be managed like the deer. I might go 30 bulls per 100 cows but I would definatly increase the number of hunters.
12. Now I would let people apply for both premium deer and premium elk. I also would let people apply for general deer limited entry elk. A person could not have 2 deer or 2 elk tags in the same year but they could have a deer and a elk even if they were both premium.
13. I would get rid of spike elk hunting thus letting more elk grow up thus increasing elk permits.
14. There would be mandatory reporting on every hunt a person drew. Meaning if you had a deer or an elk tag or both you are required to report days spent in the field and well as animals harveted and animals wounded. You also would have to submit a tooth from each animal for an age classification. If you did not report all of the info then you simply could not apply for any hunt the follwing year. This is a sure way to get the best info we can on harvest and age of animals.
15. The last thing I would do is wage all out war on Coyote's. By this I mean every deer and elk permit would increase by $5 period. If there is 150,000 total permits that would mean over $750,000 dollars a year to fly and shoot the $hit out of dogs. This would include landowner tags as well as conservation tags and CWMU tags.
Now I am sure there are holes in my idea, and I am open to suggestions and comments. But what this does is creates alot more opportunity for people who simply want to hunt and also makes the trophy areas even better then they are now.
One thing for sure is I don't have the perfect plan but I want more opportunity for hunters. I want more kids in the hunting world. I don't want to divide quality hunters versus opportunity hunters. I don't want my kid to think that trophy hunting is the only real hunting. I don't want people to feel like they have to kill a deer every year to be successful. And I want people to own up and be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Listen to my radio program Tuesday night and I will be tackling this subject.
Thanks for everyones comments.
Tony Abbott
801-885-1274
[email protected]
1. I am a big fan of not running anyone else out of the hunting world, meaning I do not want to see permits cut any further. Now I am not against it but that is a LAST resort in my opinion.
Once we cut tags we will never get them back and that means lost hunters and traditions.
2. I am also a big fan of smaller managed units. My ideal size would be taking each of our 5 units and splitting them into 5 sub units thus having 25 units statewide. With 25 units we could still have traditional hunting parties for families yet be able to more closly monitor deer populations and harvest in a given area. It would also allow the state to move hunters numbers from each sub unit if needed. I would manage these sub units for 15 bucks per 100 does and I would let everyone have 5 choices for hunt areas and all would be valid. This would un questionably spread out hunter pressure and make it appear as to less hunters. Also Statewide archery would be just that, statewide. Of course the Premium units would not be included in statewide archery.
3. I would leave about 5 premium areas meaning 35+ bucks per 100 does. It would be Hernry Mtns,Paunsaugunt, Book Cliffs, Vernon and Crawford Mtn. This would make a limited entry Premium unit in each of the 5 main regions. Thus Spreading out the limited hunting opportunity for the masses yet make and keep top quality areas for some trophy opportunity. None of these premium deer units would be limited entry elk units.
This also opens up some areas for a General season type hunt (South Slope, Oak Creek,San Juan, Thousand Lake and La Sal. Creating more areas for the general season hunter thus spreading out the hunters.
4.Now on the Premium hunting deer units I would have year around lion hunting seasons with no quota's. Also each one of the premium deer units would be open bull elk units meaning tags can be bought over the counter and there is no limit on the archery permits. We know that elk and deer compete and we know that lions eat deer. So my questions is if we do this on the Henry Mtns already to protect the deer heard, why don't we do it on the Paunsaungunt, Bookcliffs etc? This is not a bash on lions or elk it is simply giving our premium deer units the best chance to be just that, PREMIUM.
This would also increase opportunity for people who wanted to hunt elk that otherwise never would.
5. Now if 35-40 bucks per 100 does for premium deer is our goal then that should also be our managment plan for elk. Elk units with 60 to 100 bulls per 100 cows is way to much and overkill. We can and would create more opportunity for hunters if we killed more of our under utilized elk thus also reducing the pressure on our deer.
6. I would like there to be a 5 year wait on these premium deer units as well. Thus intitially increasing the chance to draw.
7. I would take 10% of every premium deer and elk tag in the state and 10% of every genral season deer and limited entry elk tag and make them for kids 18 and under only. Statistics show we must recruit them at a young age or we never get them. Also once a kid drew a premium youth tag they then are in-eligible to draw another as a youth but can put in for the regular limited entry tags as well as General season tags and the premium regular draw tags. Thus giving them a taste of a "trophy hunt" but letting the youth tags be spread around.
8. I would then take our elk units and take all of the rifle tags out of the rut (excluding premium units). We know that a rifle tag in the rut for elk is not a hunt. It is a death sentence for the elk. Just like a rifle deer hunt in the rut is not a hunt it is a deer slaughter. (this is why we don't have rifle deer rut hunts)
Put the archery season in the rut for elk thus being able to double the amount of archery permits. Move the Rifle hunt to the 1st part of October thus doubling those permits and moving the muzzle loader hunt to November doubling those permits. This would create a lot more hunting opportunity and greatly increase drawing odds.
Now I would have 6 premium elk units for the guy that doesn't want to hunt elk he just wants to kill elk. What I mean by that is a middle of the rut, with your rifle, elk everywhere type hunt, that you get 1 time in your life if you are lucky. This would be the elk hunts of elk hunts.
These units could be PAhvant,Beaver,Monroe,Boulder,San Juan and Dutton. These units could have the best elk hunting in the world but be very limited as to how many tags. This would be the guys once in a lifetime elk hunt so to speak. Now understand that deer hunting will suffer on these units but it is a trade off for the premium deer units where the elk will suffer. None of these premium elk untis would be premium deer units. I would also have year around lion hunting with no quota on these units as well.
9. I would keep bonus points instead of go to preferance points. I also would only give 25% of the tags to the most bonus points instead of 50%. Then everyone would be in for the remaining 75%. This would also give new hunters a feeling that they might draw.
10. I would charge more for the premium elk and deer tags. What the price is I don't know but if you get premium seats at the Jazz game you pay more then if you sit in the upper deck. So yes there is a greater value.
11. Now the rest of the elk units in the state would be managed like the deer. I might go 30 bulls per 100 cows but I would definatly increase the number of hunters.
12. Now I would let people apply for both premium deer and premium elk. I also would let people apply for general deer limited entry elk. A person could not have 2 deer or 2 elk tags in the same year but they could have a deer and a elk even if they were both premium.
13. I would get rid of spike elk hunting thus letting more elk grow up thus increasing elk permits.
14. There would be mandatory reporting on every hunt a person drew. Meaning if you had a deer or an elk tag or both you are required to report days spent in the field and well as animals harveted and animals wounded. You also would have to submit a tooth from each animal for an age classification. If you did not report all of the info then you simply could not apply for any hunt the follwing year. This is a sure way to get the best info we can on harvest and age of animals.
15. The last thing I would do is wage all out war on Coyote's. By this I mean every deer and elk permit would increase by $5 period. If there is 150,000 total permits that would mean over $750,000 dollars a year to fly and shoot the $hit out of dogs. This would include landowner tags as well as conservation tags and CWMU tags.
Now I am sure there are holes in my idea, and I am open to suggestions and comments. But what this does is creates alot more opportunity for people who simply want to hunt and also makes the trophy areas even better then they are now.
One thing for sure is I don't have the perfect plan but I want more opportunity for hunters. I want more kids in the hunting world. I don't want to divide quality hunters versus opportunity hunters. I don't want my kid to think that trophy hunting is the only real hunting. I don't want people to feel like they have to kill a deer every year to be successful. And I want people to own up and be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.
Listen to my radio program Tuesday night and I will be tackling this subject.
Thanks for everyones comments.
Tony Abbott
801-885-1274
[email protected]
