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$$$ How much is a Muley worth??
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never_catch
(4696 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
08:06 PM (MST)
"$$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Hey fella's got a question for you. I have great private, mule deer, hunting land in Northern Utah (Chalk Creek) and am wondering what I should charge someone with a Northern tag to take a buck off my property?? What's an average price you think?? I'm not a greedy person trying to get every dime I can out of someone but I do have excellent looking bucks around my cabin all year long and if they want a good one it's got to be worth something you know. Well let me know what you guys think...??

~Z~

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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  wileywapati      Sep-17-08   1 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  BeanMan      Sep-17-08   2 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  SureShot      Sep-17-08   3 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  sageadvice      Sep-17-08   4 
     RE: $$$ How mu...  one_dryboot      Sep-17-08   5 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  sageadvice      Sep-17-08   6 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  carnicero      Sep-17-08   7 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  hossblur      Sep-17-08   8 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  one_dryboot      Sep-17-08   9 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   11 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  ZR1      Sep-18-08   10 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  berrysblast...      Sep-18-08   12 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  JadgBob      Sep-18-08   18 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  shootinfool      Sep-18-08   13 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  bowhunt      Sep-18-08   14 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  1911      Sep-18-08   17 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   19 
     RE: $$$ How mu...  1911      Sep-18-08   21 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   26 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  gznokes      Sep-18-08   15 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  Coyote_chas...      Sep-18-08   16 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  Castnshoot      Sep-18-08   20 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  1911      Sep-18-08   22 
     RE: $$$ How mu...  wileywapati      Sep-18-08   23 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  Castnshoot      Sep-18-08   24 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  1911      Sep-18-08   25 
       RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   27 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  1911      Sep-18-08   30 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  jlboykin      Sep-18-08   31 
       RE: $$$ How mu...  NvrEnuf      Sep-18-08   28 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   29 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  never_catch      Sep-18-08   32 
         RE: $$$ How mu...  NoDak80      Sep-18-08   33 
          RE: $$$ How mu...  jlboykin      Sep-18-08   34 
           RE: $$$ How mu...  thebuckstop...      Sep-18-08   35 
         RE: $$$ How mu...  shotgunjim      Sep-18-08   38 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  shotgunjim      Sep-18-08   36 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  kingfish      Sep-18-08   37 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  never_catch      Sep-18-08   39 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  257Tony      Sep-18-08   40 
     RE: $$$ How mu...  wileywapati      Sep-18-08   41 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  257Tony      Sep-18-08   42 
       RE: $$$ How mu...  wileywapati      Sep-18-08   43 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  never_catch      Sep-18-08   44 
       RE: $$$ How mu...  wileywapati      Sep-18-08   45 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  alp75      Sep-18-08   46 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  rmanwill      Sep-19-08   47 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  HJB      Sep-19-08   48 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  T264      Sep-19-08   49 
  RE: $$$ How mu...  Idahoron      Sep-19-08   50 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  alp75      Sep-19-08   51 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  Idahoron      Sep-19-08   52 
   RE: $$$ How mu...  alp75      Sep-19-08   53 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  grizzly      Sep-19-08   54 
    RE: $$$ How mu...  Idahoron      Sep-19-08   55 
     RE: $$$ How mu...  alp75      Sep-19-08   56 
      RE: $$$ How mu...  slamdunk      Sep-20-08   57 
       RE: $$$ How mu...  huntandfish      Sep-25-08   58 
        RE: $$$ How mu...  huntandfish      Sep-25-08   59 
 RE: $$$ How mu...  silentbroad...      Sep-25-08   60 

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  Messages in this topic  

wileywapati
(1807 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
08:41 PM (MST)
1. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

How about a "hello". "Sure you can hunt on my property, just show respsect to what is mine"

It's a sure sign when an athlete in contract negotiations says "it's not about the money" it sure as hell is about the money.

Look at what SITLA tried a few years back. Look at how offensive marketing big game animals has become. All that is needed is a high fence a couple corn flingers and a few rent - a- cops.

Go ahead inch freaks flame away

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BeanMan
(5813 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
09:09 PM (MST)
2. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Wiley, I'm with you. I will never pay more than the price of a tag to hunt. Kind of like going to see a prostitute, you'll get your rocks off but it won't mean much in the long run.

beanman

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SureShot
(777 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
09:22 PM (MST)
3. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I'll start the bidding at $50.

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sageadvice
(11970 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
10:10 PM (MST)
4. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

This probably is not going to be a popular opinion but if you have 160 to 170 class deer that are still going to be around when the hunting starts, i'd say that asking $500. would not be asking to much. I never seem to make enough money yet on a good day i'll pull in that amount. Is it worth a day or two's wages hunting on private property with hardly any pressure over something on public land similar to a D-day type beach landing? That's up to the individual but for the safty point alone, i don't believe it's asking too much.

These guys that charge 5,7,10 thousand or more are catering to the well off, regardless of the guy that say's that he saved..., and even if i had THAT kind of money, i'd refuse to support those that are taking more and more land and hunting access away from the common man!

Joey

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one_dryboot
(4685 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
10:51 PM (MST)
5. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Never, sent you a P.M !!

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sageadvice
(11970 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
10:58 PM (MST)
6. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

one_dryboot said;
"Never, sent you a P.M !!"

LOL! i didn't think it was going to take very long! It didn't!

Joey

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carnicero
(152 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
11:01 PM (MST)
7. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

As much as you want. Last time I checked we are not a socialist society, and this is coming from a guy that has NEVER hunted private or paid for a tag beyond what the tag or draw cost. It's your land, you paid for it- if someone has the $ and you have the resource, than supply and demand takes care of the rest. Honestly, I would guess $1000 or less to kill a non BC/PY buck. Popular topic or not, we live in the USA. Capitalism- love it or leave it.

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hossblur
(3027 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
11:16 PM (MST)
8. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I agree, I don't think trespass fees are wrong. $500 to not have pressured deer, seem pretty fair. Imagine if the DWR hadn't created CWMU's, trespass fees would be resonable because the STATE wouldn't have created a commercial buisness by giving tags and donating animals.

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one_dryboot
(4685 posts)
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Sep-17-08, 
11:47 PM (MST)
9. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

heck i wasnt about to tell him what i thought on open forum! It wasnt 5 grand but it was more than has been stated. I dont want to get burned by all the public land, Diy only people!

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NoDak80
(0 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
07:59 AM (MST)
11. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I for one don't like the whole trespass fee idea, however it is your land and you are entitled to handle this situation as you want. It is obviously about the money to you, or you wouldn't be asking "how much should I charge?".

Do you own that deer? Is it going to hurt you financialy, or in any other way, to let someone hunt on your property? Do you need the income?

Let a supervised kid, vet, or someone with a disibility with the tag hunt for free. You may gain a little more satisfaction with a big smile than you will from a check.

sorry for the rant - just my feelings,
jon

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ZR1
(102 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
07:47 AM (MST)
10. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

what kinda deer are on your property ?
(guided)
170 class 3,500$
180 class 5,500$
190 plus 7,500$
trespass only ( maybe 1500)
1500$
plus trophy kill fee (maybe 1000)
500 $ ( management)
plus management kill fee

Just some Ideas not set in stone just what I have seen hunt's going for lately. And for the most part I am do-it yourself hunter, I just know alot of guys that do pay for hunt's.

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berrysblaster
(1851 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
08:20 AM (MST)
12. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

ZR that graduated stuff doesn't fly!! had a guy say it was a bunch of BS yesterday, felt bad, really wanted to take him after a bull. I wasn't in the mood to explain why we operate this way, im pretty sure he will read this so i hope he understands.

We operate on a flat guide fee that is more than fair. But this is where i lost him we have a graduated trophy fee that starts at a thousand, and for every ten inches gross past that it goes up a thousand. IE 350=$1000 360=$2000 and so forth up to 5000. We have this because the unit we hunt is not known for truly exceptional bulls, they are there, but few and far between, it is known for very good bulls.

So, we implemented this to protect us as well as the client, our average bull is 350, great bull but its not a $5000 bull. So this keeps it reasonable. Now if we do happen to get into a monster bull 390+, its there to protect us. For some reason this fellow thought that this graduated fee would cause us to not wanna kill the biggest bull possible, i dont understand because if it was about the money, than wouldnt we wanna kill the biggest bull available to us?

Anyway sorry for the hijack but here is my two cents, you have the property and they wanna be on it. So the price should reflect the quality, its just like supply and demand, if the demand is high then you can get a little more out of it.

Wildlife population control specialist

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JadgBob
(244 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
11:11 AM (MST)
18. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Berryblaster,

"we implemented this to protect us as well as the client" can you please explain what you are being protected from??? What is the client being protected from???
You are hunting an area that "is not known for truly exceptional bulls". It seems that by producing exceptional animals for your clients your reputation will grow and you are going to book more hunts and can then charge your higher fees. It's just too bad that hunting has deteriorated to an activity of the way above average wage earners.

JadgBob

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shootinfool
(0 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
09:59 AM (MST)
13. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

pm sent

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bowhunt
(3340 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
10:33 AM (MST)
14. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

You will now start to get flooded by emails, and PMs from people that want to lease your ground, and then they will arranged the hunting...guides.

Decide if you want to go that way or not. Do not get in a long term lease with anyone! The value of your land is just going up and up.

Good luck

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1911
(6085 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
11:02 AM (MST)
17. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Big smiles and hey how ya doin's don't go very far to pay property taxes. It drives me insane to see the mentality that somehow it is akin to evil practice for any landowner to have the audacity to charge money for hunting priveledges. They own the land, along with the liability for taxes or otherwise. And for the most part, I dare say that few if any property owners are making any significant profit selling hunting rights. If they are, then more power to them. I can't believe I'm sitting here reading responses defering to the fact that somehow they don't need the money and would not miss it anyhow. Please let me know where you live so I can come into your house and help myself to anything you own but do not use and/or would not miss. Whatever you line of work and livelyhood I'm sure that the people that cry the most over the evil landowners do little if any "gratis" cemenet work, tax prep, telemarketing, or whatever it is you do.

It comes down to supply and demand. Hunting is driven by the same principles. I too would love to step from reality into a Norman Rockwell painting from the 30's, have a spread of acreage, and invite each of you onto the place free of charge and fill up a pickup with trophy big game over the weekend. Unfortunately, in reality that is not gonna happen and if you want opportunity you will wait, or pay accordingly, IF, you are lucky enough.

I'll go farther and say it is in most of our best interest that landowners can make money selling tresspass rights. Were it not so, the amount of winter ground being sold to developers would happen faster than it is now then we could all cry about the greedy landowner selling his land for house developments. The only way for the property owner to win with some of you guys would be if they donated the land and turned it into a wildlife trust for hunters and wildlife alike. Noble idea which I'm sure each one of us would do if we were lucky enough to inherit a large tract of prime property ....yeah right.

END RANT.

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NoDak80
(0 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
11:44 AM (MST)
19. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

1911, Believe it or not there are still places that you can go and nock on someone's door and ask permission to hunt without opening your checkbook. Sadly these places have diminished over the last couple of years. And yes, if a neighbor comes over and asks to borrow my chainsaw, I am not going to charge them, even though it costs me money for upkeep. Would you charge someone that was broken down on the side of the road and needed "help". Brakes are expensive, why use them when you don't have to.

This type of greedy mentality spreads too fast.

You said -
"I'll go farther and say it is in most of our best interest that landowners can make money selling tresspass rights"

are you kidding me??????????

jon

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1911
(6085 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
12:13 PM (MST)
21. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

So let's break this down further. You take the example of the chain saw. You paid for it, you pay the upkeep, and your neighbor wants to borrow it. You lend him the chainsaw. Great. However, is the guy now that owns the Universal rent all a greedy SOB in your mind because he makes money off doing the same thing on a grander scale???

If someone wants to let others hunt for nothing great. Who am I to say they can't do just that nor would I. But who are you to say they can't charge??? And why can your desire to get on their land for free not be linked to your greed to part with your money. We could make the same argument both ways. Depending on the situation I might say you're too greedy to part with your 50k pickup and drive something more modest so you could afford to pay a tresspass fee. (THAT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE DON'T TAKE IT OUT OF CONTEXT LIKE THE LAST QUOTE OF MINE YOU POSTED) The pendulem swings both ways. Let me further state that the most land I own is around .23 acres that my house sits on so I'm not speaking on my own behalf as a landowner.

I never said someone was not at liberty to do what they want with property they own. Others did and I spoke out against that.

Now to put back into context my words you fondly quoted..

after I typed... "I'll go farther and say it is in most of our best interest that landowners can make money selling tresspass rights"
...I then typed... "Were it not so, the amount of winter ground being sold to developers would happen faster than it is now then we could all cry about the greedy landowner selling his land for house developments. The only way for the property owner to win with some of you guys would be if they donated the land and turned it into a wildlife trust for hunters and wildlife alike. Noble idea which I'm sure each one of us would do if we were lucky enough to inherit a large tract of prime property ....yeah right."

This was all in one single paragraph as it was a single thought ...please try to follow.

Here is a breakdown for you.

1. Pretend you are a wealthy greedy landowner.
2. You own all this land and your greed becomes too much to contain. You then desire to make profit from the asset that we call your land.
3. You cannot turn a positive cash flow on the land at the same rate as if you were to liquidate the asset and place it elsewhere.
4. In the process of liqidating the land a developer approaches with an offer that your greedy landowner hands cannot resist.
5. The land is sold from the greedy landowner to the greedy developer.
6. The greedy developer then builds homes on the land to greedy homeowners.
7. The greedy homeowners now live on the land that was once winter ground that you were pissed the greedy landowner would not let you hunt without a fee.
8. The greedy wildlife now has no winter ground, dies off, dwindles, at which point the greedy hunter moans about the the lack of winter range.

IN THIS CASE EXAMPLE YES, IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE OVERALL WILDLIFE PICTURE HAD THE GREEDY LANDOWNER JUST SATISFIED HIS GREED WITH FEES FROM GREEDY HUNTERS PAY THE GREED FEE WHICH MAY HAVE KEPT THE GREEDY LANDOWNER FROM SELLING TO GREEDY DEVELOPER WHO IN TURN SOLD THE WINTER GROUND TO GREEDY HOMEOWNERS. Get it??

Nobody is entitled to something for nothing. Sometimes they get it. Hell, sometimes I get it. Sometimes I give it too. But I am not about to jump on a bandwagon and say who should and who shouldn't.

So no jon, in that context I am not kidding you.

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NoDak80
(0 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
01:29 PM (MST)
26. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Fisrt I would like to clear up one thing - In your example you are talking about a bussiness, and this disscussion has nothing to to do with running a bussiness or guiding - I have no problem with guides or their business.

"Great. However, is the guy now that owns the Universal rent all a greedy SOB in your mind because he makes money off doing the same thing on a grander scale???"

So, should I charge someone for borrowing my chainsaw??? I could make money, so why shouldn't I??

I believe that the landowner, in any situation, should have the right to decide what happens on his land. If this guy wants to charge to access his property, fine. Do I think it is the right thing to do, no. Property taxes due not increase, by letting someone access your property - you have to pay them regradless. If you need the land access payment for income, that is another story.

In some cases you may be right in that fee hunting saves some wintering ground. This is by far the exception, and not the rule. So in the big picture, in no way shape or form - overall good for hunting. So, your little story is pointless, in whatever context.

Greed breeds greed,
In some places I have seen landowners not grant permission to cross their land to access puplic land without a tresspass fee. Is this ok, 1911?? How far will it go?

jon

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gznokes
(1305 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
10:47 AM (MST)
15. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

How big is the ranch? Acreage plays into it.

I'd hunt it with my family and friends. The value of those experiences are worth way more than cash. Let one of your buddies, clients, business associates hunt it and it will come back to you 10 fold if they have a good experience.

That being said, I'm a capitalist. I'd charge as much as I could if I weren't using it that way.

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Coyote_chaser
(805 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
11:01 AM (MST)
16. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-08 AT 11:02 AM (MST)

You should let me come up and hunt. That way I could verify what I see to everyone here. I will post pictures of the deer I shot so we can all know that caliber of deer that is up there. I would like to stay in the cabin also!!

Joking aside, I would do what you want. Dont worry about what people say. I would pay $500 for a trespass fee in a heartbeat.

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Castnshoot
(776 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
11:47 AM (MST)
20. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Never Catch, don't let some of the people here make you feel bad for simply asking a question. There is plenty of pieces of beautiful land all over the west with game on them. Let them go out and buy one and they can run it how ever they want.

Some of my family were the first white folks to settle up to the Chalk Crik. Some are still there' and yes they do lease out the hunting rights to some of it.

Do you own the mineral rights on you land. I hear that the oil companies are sniffing around again up there. You might get in on some of that as well, but if you do don't admit it around here.

Good luck

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1911
(6085 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
12:17 PM (MST)
22. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

+ 1 Castnshoot

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wileywapati
(1807 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
12:44 PM (MST)
23. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

1911 lets examine the CAPITALIST system as it exists in today's world. Taxpayers will end up bailing out private corporation after private corporation. CAPITALISTS do just that they CAPITALIZE while they can. When the market dries up
when what used to be a 150,000.00 house is selling for 300,000.00 or 400,000.00 and these institutions are greedy enough to carry the notes on these bad deals to make a buck
they deserve to fail without me and every other taxpayer floating the cash to bail their asses out.

First time a fire flood timber infestation or tresspass
occurs does the private landowner become a CAPITALIST or does he call 911 to get the public fire, law enforcement, or biologist up there to figure out what is going on or to save his land from burning. Damn straight he does!! Just another form of the public coming to bail out a CAPITALIST.

If you all want to start paying for the KINGS DEER like they do in Europe knock yourselves out. Just don't come running to the public for a bailout

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Castnshoot
(776 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
01:04 PM (MST)
24. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Wiley, I'm not too keen on all these bail outs either. But I don't see the correlation between a land owner calling 911 to use services that he has paid for. If he had not paid for those services he would not own the land. See how long you hold title to a piece of property if you refuse to pay the taxes.

Also if you can tell us all of some system that works better than a "CAPITALIST" system please do.

Thank you Comrade

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1911
(6085 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
01:11 PM (MST)
25. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Well in that case Carl, lets just give a government mandate that the landowners shall issue tresspass permits for $1.12 to cover administrative fees and allow whomever to come and go. They could piggy back that to a bill that says your house cannot ever be worth more than 150,000. Not sure how you can use "kings deer" in the same sense you use "capitalist" without using the art of oxymoron.

When your house catches fire if you call 911 then I'll be using your pool out back for my swimming parties every third weekend next summer ok? When you get financial compensation for services/good rendered is it called making a living or greed? Ot does the greed apply only to those who have something you don't? You're right though. If the goverment would just step in and say no to property rights, by next year we would all be able to harvest a trophy animal from every species and it would not cost us more than the price of the tag. No more money, no more waiting.

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NoDak80
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Sep-18-08, 
01:57 PM (MST)
27. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

1911, sounds like you fine with paying the "fair market price" for shooting an animal, am I right? So, either way, your style of hunting will remain intact, if not become better. Thats fine. But for the rest of us, it would be great if people weren't looking for the extra $$$$, just because they can. But sadly, that is what this world is coming to (how can I profit, how can I get more, what about me, etc...).

jon

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1911
(6085 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
02:25 PM (MST)
30. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I do not like the way things have gone in the last few decades I have been hunting. I am not in a position where I can open a check book and pay huge sums of cash for an animal either. I have on more than one occasion been displaced because of high dollar outfitters who have secured hunting leases on what I once used to be able to access.

That said I'm still not about to dismiss private property rights. My desire to hunt does not trump that. The problem remains, there are more people with desires to hunt quality land, than there is land with quality hunting.

In comparing landowners perogative of selling hunting leases you cannot automatically qualify it as evil greed anymore a landowner could single out whatever your occupation is and label it as greed.

And how is it that if you want to access private land without having to pay that is not greed/how can I get more while if the landowner charges a fee that is?? Do I think it is insane what some landowners/outfitters are charging for big game animals? Absolutely. But whomever is paying does not. And are we then given a green light to tell them when, where, and how to spend their money?

I'd like a toilet made out of solid gold too. There are only a handfull of ways to deal with it. Forget about it, do what it takes to jockey myself into the financial position to buy one, or find someone who'll let me use one for a fee or free. Seems to me you just want it both ways, nice opportunity without the premium. Well, others want the nice hunt and pay the premium. Does that mean I like high dollar hunts and pay for them. NO it does not. But again, our hunting priveledge does not trump private property rights. If it did we would not be having this conversation.

When it comes to the notion in the argument of the have vs. have not, it may well be that while the have are greedy, the have not are jealous, and in the event they become a have, they'd probably find themselves to be the greedy person of whom they formally spoke of because talk is cheap.

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jlboykin
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Sep-18-08, 
02:25 PM (MST)
31. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I've seen this and many similar type comments on some other boards and cannot figure them out for the life of me. Why when this guy (or his family) has obviously made the sacrifices necessary to purchase this property, should they not be entitled to earn a profit from it? Are you going to struggle for years to acquire something like this and just open it up to the general public? Give me a break, you should try wearing that self righteous shoe on the other foot.

There is plenty of public ground in the West to give everyone a hunting opportunity. We also let friends and family hunt on our land, but we also lease out part of it, too. We don't accept money from friends that want to come out and hunt either.

I must have been out to lunch when it became a crime in this country to have more money than the next guy.

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NvrEnuf
(1898 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
01:59 PM (MST)
28. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Money... The more you get the more you want it seems. I personally think it screws everything up when it comes to hunting and quite a few other things too. To each their own but I can tell you now that I will never accept a dollar for letting someone hunt my land. Nor will I ever accept a dollar for lending someone a hand during their hunt. I'm going with a friend this evening to try to fill his limited entry elk tag here in Utah. If we go up above my place and he shoots a HUGE bull I will absolutely not allow him to give me one red cent. Don't think I'm doing it this way because I'm rich either because I'm dang sure not! I'm helping him because it's the right thing to do. I think the guy up above asking how much a muley is worth should realize that it's not all about money and just let his friends and family hunt the bucks he has around his place. If he needs more money to pay taxes and keep the ground from being sold off and developed then figured something else out. Just don't pimp out our wildlife anymore than is already being done. I for one would rather see winter range disappear and eventually have hunting come to an end than see if continue on the path that it's on right now. Our grandparents would roll over in their graves if they saw what some people now consider to be "hunting".

NvrEnuf

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NoDak80
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Sep-18-08, 
02:10 PM (MST)
29. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

NvrEnuf - I agree.

For the people that think hunting is equal to economics, just don't get it. And it is very sad that the correlation between the two subjects even exist.
jon

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never_catch
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Sep-18-08, 
02:27 PM (MST)
32. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

WOW I CREATED A MONSTER (wont do that again).....
It is not about the money PERIOD!! I archery hunt my property every single year and have since I was 13 years old. If I am going to allow good bucks to be taken off my property by someone else though I can assure all of you it's not happening for free though. I pay property taxes and cabins require maintenance. It's not free for me to hunt it so why let someone I don't know hunt it free?? To those of you interested who have mass messaged and emailed me, I am sorry but this year is not giong to be an option but possibly in the future and I will keep email addresses and phone numbers to get back to you if things change. I have lots of work planned for the property after the rifle hunt this year though and am seriously considering to negotiate next season for a couple hard workers. If I do I'll contact those who seemed the most serious at that time.
Thank you!!

~Z~

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NoDak80
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Sep-18-08, 
02:54 PM (MST)
33. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I actually wear the shoe on both feet - I grew up on a family farm (which is still a family farm), and I enjoy hunting. Not once have we ever asked someone to pay to hunt on our land, and never will.

It is obvious that this mentality has set-in some of your minds, and the neighborly mindset is gone. For those of you who don't get it - you won't, theres no point in arguing anymore.

No one is talking about taking away property rights or blaming people with a lot of money to spend on hunting. This is about old fashoned curtesy. Thinking about someone else rather than yourself. I am talking about opening up opportunites, not shutting them - I would hardly call this greed.
jon

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jlboykin
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Sep-18-08, 
03:35 PM (MST)
34. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I also grew up farming and then I married a ranchers daughter. We let people hunt birds on our farms a lot. We don't expect to be paid, just that people respect the place and clean up after themselves. On the ranching side, part of the country is leased out and part of it is kept for family. The family part is open and everyone brings guests throughout the year (again, not charged).

I understand your concern with opening up opportunities for others, the more people introduced to hunting the better. But, I don't see any harm in a guy charging people to hunt either. There are lots of opportunities out there that involve public land and I don't understand why everyone rails against this guy for wanting to make extra money.

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thebuckstopshere
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Sep-18-08, 
03:51 PM (MST)
35. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Just another reason we should all fight as hard as we can to keep the wilderness and wildlife tags PUBLIC!!!

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shotgunjim
(929 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
04:48 PM (MST)
38. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

"It is not about the money PERIOD!!". "I pay property taxas and cabins require maintenance. It's not free for me to hunt it so why let someone I don't know hunt it for free??" Sounds like it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY to me.

I wake up and thank God every day that most land owners are NOT LIKE YOU!!!!!

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shotgunjim
(929 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
04:25 PM (MST)
36. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I agree that land owners can do what ever they want with their property, however I think that paying tresspass fees, leasing hunting rights, hunting clubs and other pay to hunt BS is one of the major reasons why hunter numbers are declining and is going to led to the end of sport hunting. When, not if hunting becomes something only the wealthy do, the "Antis" will get their way and have hunting banned because there will not be enough hunters to fight the millions of anti hunters.

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kingfish
(6134 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
04:33 PM (MST)
37. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-08 AT 04:33 PM (MST)

How much?? Just a good old "please" and "thank you" works for me. Respect my land is respecting me and the animals.

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never_catch
(4696 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
05:25 PM (MST)
39. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Perhaps I should have mentioned I have neighbors who own private CWMU's for Mule Deer and Elk...I'm sure they would love it if I let everyone and thier dog come in and hunt my land for free. Because of course everyone out there is so trustworthy that nobody would end of venturing out onto my neighbors CWMU's right?? Wow some people's kids...especially shotgunjim's!! LMAO at you guy, that's all I gotta say...

~Z~

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257Tony
(3703 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
07:16 PM (MST)
40. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-08 AT 07:19 PM (MST)

I'm gonna have to agree with 1911 on this one. If I owned good hunting property, I sure as heck would try to collect some money for people hunting it. Not only does the gubment take $$ from the landowner in the form of taxes, but mother nature takes her toll in the form of road upkeep and whatnot. No reason the landowner should pay all the money to keep it accessible and then let strangers hunt it for free. A fair amount of $$ for a fair amount of shootable bucks and low pressure sounds good to me

Edit: Forgot to mention to never_catch, if you need help with maintenance, I'm real handy with a hammer or a chainsaw. "Will work for hunting" is my motto

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wileywapati
(1807 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
08:19 PM (MST)
41. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Never_ & 1911 you are missing my point. I do like the Comrade Socialist reference. I am pretty far from it.

Any time a monetary value is assigned to public wildlife the public will lose. Any time the value of an inch of antler comes before our RIGHT and yes it is a RIGHT to hunt and opportunity to hunt you are moving in a direction that most would not agree with.

I will never agree or support the European / Texas pay for the right to harvest public wildlife philosophy.

The Capitalist system works like a charm as long as greed
and corruption are kept out of the mix. Most heavily right leaning conservatives would say that there is no other way.
Well then deal with the forclosures from Freddie and Fannie,
deal with the market plunge from the investment banks that are now not worth sh!t. Explain to me why I should send my tax dollars to an institution that pays it's CEO an ridiculous amount to bankrupt a company or steal it's employees pensions, and for hell sakes have our Comrades in the House and Senate back in Washington pay what I pay for my health insurance.

Why should a hunter have to pay to access a public resource that happens to be on your property at a certain time of year??
Depending on where you are in the canyon I will promise that
those animals ain't there 365 days a year. Just like you said about your neighbor and his CWMU you are spreading this disease like a cancer.


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257Tony
(3703 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
08:47 PM (MST)
42. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

You aren't paying to hunt the animal, your paying to have access to his land. Are you saying that all private property should be open to the public for hunting, for free? That's what it sounds like. I can GUARANTEE you would be singing a different tune if you were the property owner, but it sounds like you're just another pissed off hunter that hasn't had crap for luck on public lands and wants to take it out on the guys that can afford to hunt private.

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wileywapati
(1807 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
09:08 PM (MST)
43. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Tony, not what I am saying at all. If dude doesn't want hunters on his land that is just fine. I support him 100%
Just don't piss up my back and ask what would be a good amount to charge for a nice buck. Are you going to pay the same amount to access property full of yearlings and spikes?? Are you going to pay full amount to access property in the drainage that doesn't hold deer till thanksgiving?? Well after the hunt is over???

Define a game farm for me Tony??

Sounds to me like a pissed off landowner without the necessary acreage to go the CWMU route or we wouldn't be having this debate would we??

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never_catch
(4696 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
09:24 PM (MST)
44. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Wiley, I can see your point to a certain extent but buddy at the same time you have to realize we can't let every person that wants to hunt it go in there and push all the deer out of there too. Within a half a mile of my cabin this summer I was able to capture over 30 different bucks on 1 single trail camera. I can guarantee if just 4 rifle hunters went in there for a single weekend that the population would practically disappear due to too much pressure. Rusty Hall with Western Lands Hunting Company (Trophy Hunter Mag) charges 6-7 grand for a deer tag on his leased and owned properties, 1 of which is extremely close to my cabin. I'm thinking about allowing maybe 1 to 2 people hunt my land for a considerably lower amount or trade thru hard work. Also thinking of only going with "dedicated hunters" so it helps control the amount and quality of bucks harvested. This makes me a bad person?? I'm not looking to make a whole bunch of money or get rich by doing it buddy. I'm looking for serious hunters that are willing pay a little more but not have to hire an outfitter to get away from tons of other hunters, or people to help me maintain the property and in return open up a great hunting opportunity to them. I'm still undecided on what to do still and not sure if this here forum has helped mey decision process at all like I thought it might...

~Z~

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wileywapati
(1807 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
09:52 PM (MST)
45. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Never_ I totally understand what you are up against. I don't blame you one bit. I agree that you should manage your land as you see fit. The issue that I have is putting a price on publically owned wildlife. I have had the privlige of hunting the drainage on several occasions. I am aquainted with several different landowners that own land from basically the top to the bottom of the canyon.

If you need a road graded in the spring and someone does you a favor then maybe you will do him and hopefully a young hunter a favor when the season rolls around.

Hunters lost access to private lands for a few reasons probably first was lack of respect by guests that had the privlige of access to private lands, liability concerns with livestock and money made from selling hunting rights and wildlife. I can accept and support you 100% in the first two reasons given for locking your gates.

My point in all of my above rants is once we start letting the dollar dictate how we manage wildlife and hunting opportunity we are all screwed.

Think of how much good it would do to take a kid up there
no strings no questions asked and let him take a deer, any deer
it doesnt have to be a monster. In fact I'll tell you what, you GIVE this opportunity to a hunter under 16 and I will be up in the spring to mend fence, spray thistle de winterize the cabin
or any other task that my pea sized brain can handle

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alp75
(1365 posts)
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Sep-18-08, 
10:12 PM (MST)
46. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Wow! It all seems pretty simple to me. If you own the land never just charge what you think is fair. It is your lands and your right as a landowner. Sure the wildlife is public, that does not give the public a right to your land. But you can choose what public has a right to your land whether for free or for a fee. It is YOUR LAND. I don't think what you're trying to do is "putting a price on publically owned wildlife" at all. Remember you are not managing the wildlife you are simply either allowing or not access to your property. Again pretty simple. You should just charge what you think is fair for the circumstances. Maybe you think it is fair for wiley to do some work to allow a youth hunter on the property, then go for it, just get the work done before the hunt. It might not get done in the spring. lol.

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rmanwill
(4477 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
00:30 AM (MST)
47. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Sounds like alot of people would pay you $500.00 plus. I have no problem with you charging if someone is willing to pay, it's your land. However, the price is for you to decide. The wealthy can and will pay outragous prices because they can. The young working family man probably cannot even consider paying much more then a $75.00-$100.00 tip. Those in the middle $500.00.

That's where you deciding comes in? What is you finacial situation and what do you need to charge? What do you have to offer? What do you want for it? What kind of satisfaction do you wish to get from the transaction? What kind of hunter do you want tracking and hunting on your land?

I finally am getting to a point in my life with children finally growing up and somewhat financally set to where it's not payday to payday. I do enjoy hunting a great deal still and find myself thinking about the price I would pay for the oppurnunities to hunt for decent bucks on occassions on property like you have.

Off of your question and just my opinion. Once the price gets so high the personal satisfaction of the hunt and or trophy starts to go down from say a trophy type animal killed on public land or to say DIY hunts. Not saying what you are refiring to is to this extreme. A trespass fee/tip on property with good opportunity and no garrentee is worth what you wish to get and what the hunter is willing to pay.

This question can go many directions and I'm trying to stay in the middle.

Best of luck to you and your awnser lays somewhere between your expectation and the hunts desire and expectations. You need to do what will make you happy and keep the hunting opportunity on your land decent.

Maybe one hunter is filty rich and you can over compansate to benifit another hunter, due to the current situation of said hunter, personal disability, first buck, age of hunter, personal attitude or over all experience of his hunt and any satisfaction that you may gain from providing the opportunity!!! You may only get alittle more then a tip and a very genuine thank you!! That's where I say it's your decision and what makes you happy. It's your land and you can do with it what you wish!!

Best of luck to you and thanks for providing some habitate for the wildlife!!!

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HJB
(1563 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
06:20 AM (MST)
48. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

$10,000 Per deer
Free for MM members

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T264
(753 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
08:01 AM (MST)
49. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Nevr,

Nothing wrong with charging someone to access your land for hunting, regardless of what some of these jokers think. We live in America people. It is not paying for the public's animal, it is paying for the privelige to hunt where quality animals live and pass through. If some of these people think your charging too much, they don't have to pay it. They should hunt somewhere else or better yet, go buy a big hunting ranch and let me hunt it for free! I pay my taxes and own those deer too!
Nevr,Get a couple of people to pay you a nice access fee, that are very respectful of landowners and wildlife, and will do a little upkeep on the ranch when they are there. It is then a win-win for all parties involved.

T264

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Idahoron
(1921 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
09:18 AM (MST)
50. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I grew up in a time in Idaho that we didn't even have to ask for permission from neighbors. Neighbor kids hunted wherever game was. Now days, neighbors hate each other as bad as we hated the Utah hunters 35 years ago. Goose hunting fields are renting for 800 to 1500 dollars per field. Some landowners are selling cups of coffee for 7000.00 to hunters that want their landowner deer tag. In many cases the landowners sell the cup of coffee (deer tag) and the Hunter is never allowed on the private land.
A landowner should be able to charge for trespass I guess, if the hunter gets to hunt game on his place. But the people of the state should be reimbursed for the game that is killed on the property. If the landowner gets 7000.00 for a mule deer on his place the state should be reimbursed no less than 50% of the hunters fee. Then all money made by the landowner after the reimbursement SHOULD be taxed as income. The game is owned by the people of the state. Some of that money should come back to the state. Now if landowners sign up for Access yes or that type of program and allows access through this program, I feel they should get some kind of tax break.
Idaho's Access yes is a program that is the middle man for landowners and hunters. I would encourage landowners at least here in Idaho to conceder this instead of locking their property up I a pay to hunt operation. Ron

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alp75
(1365 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
09:57 AM (MST)
51. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Idahoran

The hunter is only paying to access the land. He pays the state for a license and a tag so he has already paid his dues just like every other hunter for the public wildlife. Those fees are determined by the state. It would be unfair for someone to pay three, four, or ten times as much for a deer tag just for hunting private property as the guy hunting public. When paying for the private hunts you are paying for services and access to private lands. Many of these $7000 hunts include lodging, food and guides PLUS access to prime private land. CWMU's may operate a little differently (I don't really know) but again they way the "public's wildlife" is hunted on them is determined by the state not the landowner. People need to stop trying to give the landowners a bad name. If you had hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in property you would try to make some kind of return on it as well.

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Idahoron
(1921 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
04:15 PM (MST)
52. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

You need to reread my post, Your post doesn’t make sense.
In Idaho’s #1 mule deer unit, 7000 dollar tag does NOT get "lodging, food and guides PLUS access to prime private land" All you get is a tag and NO YOU CAN'T HUNT THE LANDOWNERS LAND in some cases.
Like I said you need to reread the post.
BTW, if I had hundreds of thousands of dollars in land it would probably not be big enough to hunt. At 5000 dollars per farm acre you won't get much. Most ranches of any size are WAY over a million dollars.
The fact is the landowners in the best mule deer unit in the state are not the friendly rancher of yesteryear. They are bankers and CEO's of mega companies. The idea that they are friendly ranchers just needing a few extra dollars income is kind of silly. Ron

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alp75
(1365 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
05:52 PM (MST)
53. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I just re-read your post. My bad, your whole cup of coffee thing threw me off.

Every state is different and again the state dictates how tags are distributed. If they give so many to landowners to do as they may, then they can sell them as they may. It is still a right of the landowner. My hundreds of thousands reference was not literal...but just ment to put a value out there. Of course these properties are multi million dollar pieces. I don't care if it were the good ol boys of yesterday or bankers and ceos it is still their land, which is my entire point. Especially if you had millions invested into property why wouldn't you try to get a return of some sort?

Try to understand that I am no land owner and spend all of my hunting time on public lands. Sometimes I wish things were different. But I still stand by my argument that the landowner has his rights given by the state. If we don't like it we shouldn't cuss the landowners but go to the states who dictacte our wildlife programs.

One more thing, many $7000 hunts do include guides, food, lodging and access to prime private land. Maybe not the one you are referring to, but many do.

I am not trying to offend anyone here, I just think we should respect peoples rights.

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grizzly
(3258 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
06:59 PM (MST)
54. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I'll guide for free. I may not be very good, but at least I'll get to experience everything but pulling the trigger.

Grizzly

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Idahoron
(1921 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
07:38 PM (MST)
55. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

It is illegal to sell tags in Idaho. That is why the cup of coffee for 7000.
If they sell trespass for 7000. I think they should have to pay windfall profit tax on it. My bet is it is all under the table. Since they are making so much on the public's deer I think some of that money should come back to the public through tax. If it were me, AND I have pushed for this. The landowners that sign up for access yes should get tax breaks.
Ron

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alp75
(1365 posts)
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Sep-19-08, 
10:17 PM (MST)
56. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

Ron

I understand much better now. I agree they should definately act responsibly and ethically and pay their taxes. I would never support a dishonest landowner. Thanks for your responses.

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slamdunk
(6662 posts)
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Sep-20-08, 
09:16 AM (MST)
57. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

nevercatch-
PM sent

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huntandfish
(0 posts)
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Sep-25-08, 
12:27 PM (MST)
58. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I am trying to see if my post show's up.

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huntandfish
(0 posts)
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Sep-25-08, 
12:30 PM (MST)
59. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

OK,
My post showed up.Can anybody tell me why I have not been able to see new posts started for mule deer or elk in the last couple of days.I am thinking something is wrong with my computer.
Noel

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silentbroadhead
(0 posts)
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Sep-25-08, 
12:42 PM (MST)
60. "RE: $$$ How much is a Muley worth??"

I would say whatever it is worth to the hunter. I mean to some it might be worth a thousand dollars to pay for and to others that can't afford much it would be worth a million dollars but maybe the pocket book only holds $200. Do what you feel is fair and maybe throw out a local ad that says make offer. Good luck on whatever you decide.

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