IS THERE...A Need to Feed - MDF

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Founder Since 1999
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How many of you have read the article in the MDF magazine, "IS THERE...A Need to Feed"? ...Pg. 40
It's a good write Todd...Thanks.

Anyway, what do you all think?
Should the state wildlife agencies have plans set for each individual area before hand? Or, should the local biologists just make the call (to feed or not) as they see fit when the time comes?

Read the article and lets hear your thoughts.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-09 AT 10:05AM (MST)[p]Thanks Brian,

I have put the article along with 2 others that have appeared in MDF over the past few months on my web page here.. http://www.blacktimberoutfitters.net/biology.html You are welcome to add them to your site as well.

If you are not a member of MDF--why? Mule deer need our help west wide--at the rate of decline in may not be too much longer we won't have mule deer in many places and states if we don't start doing something now in big ways.

Todd Black
BTO
 
I click on "Is there a need to feed?" and the wrong article comes up. "FAWNS-BUCKS-DOES, WHERE DOES IT ALL START? is what appears.

Eel
 
I LIKE THE MDF!!!

BUT!!!

IT'S TIME,ACTUALLY PAST TIME,TO PULL TOGETHER & MAKE SERIOUS CHANGES ON OUR DEER HERD!!!

SHOW ME ANY GREAT NOTICEABLE CHANGES???

I'M TALKIN QUALITY ENHANCERS!!!

KINDA FUNNY WHEN GAME IS MANAGED PROPERLY IN UTAH WE CAN PRODUCE!!!

THESE NEW MANAGEMENT HUNTS OUGHT TO KNOCK A COUPLE MORE PLACES OFF THE MAP!!!

WHATYA GONNA DO SHOOT THE REMAINING PISSCUTTER BUCKS IN THE BOOKS???

TOUGHEN UP MDF!!!





"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

493c3bb236d04499.jpg


REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
I'll answer the question with a question---did it do any good when they fed the starving deer down in Colorado last year??? How many were they feeding and what was the survival rate?
 
Good question Longun. I know it seems logical that more deer survived in the short run. But nature doesn't always follow human logic. It's a very complicated issue I think. Humans have the capability of doing the right thing. We just need to figure out what that is.

You have to remember too that we're talking about public lands for the most part. Thus we have 20 different groups pulling in 20 different directions, which further complicates things. A very powerful segment of our population believes in "hands off". Look at the tremendous push for new Wilderness areas throughout the West. That pretty much means no management.

For now, personally, I say feed, feed, feed until we figure out something better.

Eel
 
I used to be a member of the MDF, but I chose to let my membership expire when they insisted on throwing money away on coyote control. If there ever has been a waste of money, that's it. It is a short-term, stopgap measure that has few long term benefits. Kinda like using a can of fix-a-flat on a flat tire. If hunters believe in coyote control so much, then every hunter should set a goal of killing one coyote every year, and put as much effort into it as they do on Bessy's pisscutter hunts. That would be much cheaper and gain much more.

It was really amazing to see how people came forward with volunteer time and money donations for feeding last year in CO and UT. Once again, a short term fix to a long term problem. And I'm not sure feeding is even a short term fix.

I believe there are three issues that are having the greatest effect on mule deer populations throughout the west: loss of winter range, poor condition of the range that is left, and too many elk.

Hunters should be looking at the long term consequences of throwing their time and money at a short term fix like feeding programs, and overlooking the bigger picture.

Instead of donating to feeding programs, hunters should be donating to organizations that are working to protect winter range in perpetuity.

Hunters should be volunteering their time to range improvement projects. A couple of recent studies by the CDOW have shown how nutrition enhancement and winter range treatments increase over-winter survival of fawns. Look for the work by Chad Bishop and Eric Bergman.

Hunters should be attending game commission and wildlife department meetings and voicing their opinions on mule deer and elk management. Elk are the money-makers for many wildlife departments. Hunters need to let these people know how important mule deer are to them, and do their best to get managers to manage for better mule deer herds.

Hunters need to be vocal in opposition to other activities that are affecting mule deer range. Currently, hundreds of miles of roads and pipelines are being cut into valuable mule deer range throughout Wyoming, Colorado and Utah by the natural gas industry. These disturbances reduce the capacity and quality of the range. Every one of these projects on federal land goes through a public comment period. Hunters need to comment, and push for plans that have the least impact on mule deer and other wildlife.

The majority of hunters like to jump on the bandwagon in that one bad winter out of ten and help with feed programs, but fail to realize that managing and protecting herds takes a long term commitment to improving and protecting habitat. It feels good to send in your $20 for 5 bags of deer pellets every 10 years. The reality is that it will take a lot more time and money to protect mule deer populations and their habitat for the long term.

This is JMHO. Maybe feeding is the answer.
 
ColoradoOak, you hit the nail on the head!
Feeding wildlife is a quick-fix solution to a much larger problem. It's a slippery-slope that usually ends up harming wildlife in the long-run rather than helping. Look no farther than the elk feeding program in Wyoming to understand the consequences of feeding wildlife.
Predators, wildlife agencies, winter storms, etc are all scapegoats when guys like Bess don't kill their 30" buck every year. It makes most hunters feel warm and fuzzy when they kill a few coyotes or spread some alfalfa, but the bottom line is habitat. We are starting to see the effects of a centuries worth of improper habitat management, and throwing deer a life-preserver isn't going to help at this point.
 
Good comments...
There is not doubt that for the long term feeding is NOT the answer. I think most of the states are working on habitat issues. However, as I pointed out in the article if you are in the mule deer business and you sale permits and tags and you count on that income to run your business--you ought to have some sort of a PLAN to save your deer and FEED them if you don't have the habitat for them to survive 3 out of 10 winters. Either that or get out of the business of a for sale resource you don't have.

Todd Black
BTO
 
>Good comments...
>There is not doubt that for
>the long term feeding is
>NOT the answer. I
>think most of the states
>are working on habitat issues.
> However, as I pointed
>out in the article if
>you are in the mule
>deer business and you sale
>permits and tags and you
>count on that income to
>run your business--you ought to
>have some sort of a
>PLAN to save your deer
>and FEED them if you
>don't have the habitat for
>them to survive 3 out
>of 10 winters. Either
>that or get out of
>the business of a for
>sale resource you don't have.
>
>
>Todd Black
>BTO


interesting point, what about the big money guides, no need to place a name here, but just wondering what they give back to the mule deer......?..
 
Regardless of what side you are on, this thread is the perfect example of what I'm talking about. Six replies of substance (yes, I counted BCB's reply as substantial). But take a look at other threads in this forum. We have 34 people guessing the score, 27 people arguing about what is the best mule deer video, and 39(!) trying to decide if a 200" muley is equal to a 400" bull. All important stuff, I'm sure.

Hunter apathy and the tendency to be reactive rather than proactive has gotten us to this point. And that is the main point of Todd's article, I think.
 
>Regardless of what side you are
>on, this thread is the
>perfect example of what I'm
>talking about. Six replies
>of substance (yes, I counted
>BCB's reply as substantial).
>But take a look at
>other threads in this forum.
> We have 34 people
>guessing the score, 27 people
>arguing about what is the
>best mule deer video, and
>39(!) trying to decide if
>a 200" muley is equal
>to a 400" bull.
>All important stuff, I'm sure.
>
>
>Hunter apathy and the tendency to
>be reactive rather than proactive
>has gotten us to this
>point. And that is
>the main point of Todd's
>article, I think.


your right man! been saying that for 10 years now, the anti's have more drive then hunters do......
 
Okay now Ill answer the question--FEEDING DEER WILL NOT WORK...The anti's here in Wyoming are even trying to stop Elk feeding here on the Western side of the state---yes I said anti's.
 
You guys are out of your minds if you think feeding doesn't work! Last year in Colorado if the division had not fed there would have an outrageous death loss. The death loss was significant as it turned out anyway but would have been worse had they done nothing. It was not a matter of habitat wasn't good enough the habitat was under the snow. The sage and wind swept hillsides that these deer usually called home in the winter were covered in 4 feet of snow and in some places more. I watched deer spend all day pawing in one spot for hours just to get down to the leader growth of the sage and eat what they could. I saw deer walk off into snow drifts and disappear. It took all the deer had to move around in the snow. The feeding areas where life savers for the deer. One thing that i think should have been done different is fences should have been cut for animals to get over. I saw many animal die in fences because the snow was at a level that they couldn't jump it and many got caught in it and died. Maybe you had to see it first hand to appreciate the donations of sportsmen and the time and dedication of most of the locals.
Now that was an unusual winter and i am not sure if that is what your talking about. I think that is what the MDF is talking about. I disagree with feeding wildlife on a normal winter. I feel like if you feed wildlife for a few years that you alter there migration and then they show up expecting that the feed area is where they are going to spend winter and there will be plenty of feed. And soon after that you have to many animals in one area and it becomes a problem.
I agree hunters need to do more to help in winter range management. The problem we have here in CO is most of our winter ranges are also winter range for sheep and cattle. Mule deer don't compete well with sheep and sheep dogs and herders and so on. I come from a ranching family and know what it means to the rancher also. But i do see that after the sheep have gone over the winter range there is nothing left for the deer. I work on range land improvements and forest restoration. And do projects for RMEF,WTF and MDF. I know it is hard for an organization that works off the donations and dues of members to do something to satisfy every member. These organization need our help and if you have ideas and things that you would like to see done different, go talk to them they would love to hear from you.
Coyote control is an issue and it does affect mule deer in some places more than others. A mature coyote will kill a fawn week during the spring months and if you have a over abundance of coyotes you have already crippled your deer population before rangeland and winter range become and issue. Most areas this is not a problem.
I kinda got off subject a bit. Sorry. Mule deer are a passion for me and we should all do what ever we can to help. But to answer the question i think feeding only in extreme circumstances like extreme winter is a good thing. Folks the division did a great job last year here in CO. It wasn't as easy as just start feeding. They had a bunch of elk that they had to try and keep separate from the deer and some antelope that did there own thing. But all in all i think it saved some deer. I think had they done nothing we would be starting over. It wasn't a quick fix it was the only way to go last year.
Great Post everybody!!!!!!
JC
 

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