ut 5 day hunts thoughts

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 13, 2009

I recently noticed that the general hunting areas that have low buck numbers will have 5 day hunts. I'm surprised these areas actually open later in the hunt than opening day. An attempt to take pressure off of these areas might actually attract pressure as many of those who don't tag out opening day will want to hunt the "undisturbed" areas in the middle of the week. I don't think it will be a big deal with the muzz hunt; however, it could spell disaster on the rifle. I just imagine a big snowstorm Tues night, and everyone out in full numbers for the 5-day hunt opener on Wed.

Anyone else think this whole thing is a little twisted?

sneekiest_sneeker · Mar 14, 2009

They open the same day Oct 17 and close on wednesday 0ct 21. Ya people will flock a little bit.

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 14, 2009

sneak,

Where are you getting your info? If I read the asterisk on page 6 of the proc right, the 5 day hunts START on Wed. Oct. 21. I assumed the same thing too until a friend called it to my attention.

NickJ1980 · Mar 14, 2009

The same thought crossed my mind--why not hunt 2 opening days in the same week? Kinda defeats the purpose of the 5 day hunt in my mind. IMO all the hunts should start the same day, spread out the pressure during the first few days when the most animals are killed, and then concentrate the effort in the better sex ratio areas later in the season. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind not doing it this way--there must be a reason.

Utah's motto should be "Greatest Wildlife Management Experiment on Earth"

325wsm · Mar 14, 2009

The only logic I can think of behind this is the dwr thinks that by wednesday most hunters will either be tagged out or back to work, hopefully it works better than the previous five day hunts

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 14, 2009

325,

That's the only logic I could see also; however, it seems a lot riskier than spreading everyone out on opening day and close the hurting areas early. I'm just too excited to have that second opener on the struggling area. Part of me says stay off of the 5 day unit to let the herd recover, and the other part says I will be on Monroe Mt. Wed morning, not work!!! (especially if there is snow)

sb

325wsm · Mar 14, 2009

I agree, it could be real good for the hunters, but bad for the deer if there is snow on the first few days of the hunt

need4x4 · Mar 16, 2009

What was the reasoning behind this 5 day hunt in only certain places (sections)?

Do you think these areas will be limited entry and this is a stepping stone to that end?

I think it is very strange to put the 5 days on the back end of the hunt. But, maybe they have a good reason for doing it that way.

I have hunted southern, north-east and south east zones during the general hunt. I can tell you that the locals come back on the Friday in good numbers.

Given this, wed. and thursday would be the days to have the low crowds. That is for the restricted (five day) areas.

Is there a detailed map of the boundrys?

cantkillathing · Mar 16, 2009

i would bet that most people did not realize that the 5 day hunts were later, I would bet that there is people on the 5 day hunt come opening morning of the regular 7 day hunt because most people will not realize that.

dropper10 · Mar 16, 2009

Smelly, You just need to settle down a bit! Your 2pt. isnt gonna make a diff no matter what you choose! Nice hearin'from ya!

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 16, 2009

Dropper,

Go back to work.

Can't,

I agree, I think a lot of people have missed it.

nebo12000 · Mar 17, 2009

The creation of the 5 day hunt came out of the Mule Deer Committee. It was to apply to sub-units that had a buck /doe ratio of less than 15/100 over a three year period. The Wednesday opening for this units was the DWR request.Anis Aoude explained to the RAC that they felt it would lessen the pressure because some hunters would have tagged out by then and some would have to be at work during the middle of the week. I guess only time will tell. I can see it actually creating more pressure as hunters shift from opening to opening day. I would have rather had hunters have to choose hunting just the 5 day unit or just the rest of the region, but that might not work well either. My biggest concern is the DWR's move to add back the 1000 tags to the Central and NE regions.

NickJ1980 · Mar 17, 2009

Thanks nebo--sounds like you have some good info.

I disagree with Mr. Aoude though--I think there will be a staggering number of hunters doing the 2-Opening-Day thing. It was the first think I though when I saw the dates. I suppose his guess is as good as mine at this point and we'll just have to wait and see.

need4x4 · Mar 17, 2009

What if a good snow comes on Tues. Wed. or Thurday, there will be a great number in the field.

It might not end up mattering.

Was the 5 day area in the north east zone hit hard by the winter?

What about a detailed map? Anyone know if they exist online? Showing the 5 day area's.

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 17, 2009

need,

not quite sure what you mean when you say if it snows on tues, wed, thurs, it won't matter. The 5 day hunts have historically opened the same day as everything else. Its not uncommon to get some snow in the middle of the hunt that push the deer down and increase hunter success. The 5 day hunts often close before these mid-hunt storms work their magic. You might remember in 2004 when there was a good snow storm right before opening day. It was easy pickins opening morn. That's the last thing we need on areas that are struggling with buck ratios.

Packout · Mar 17, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Mar-17-09 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]I like the use of 5 day hunts to control pressure on a unit. I am unsure of the successes opening the unit after the region opener. I may be wrong, but many people may hunt the 5 day unit after they hunt the regional opener. I just hope that if this is the case that the UDWR will move the 5 day units to open with the region.

This issue has been debated back and forth over the years, but the purpose of the 5 day hunt is to cut hunter days afield. Cutting hunter days afield cuts harvest, which in turn raises buck to doe ratios.

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www.sagebasin.com
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need4x4 · Mar 17, 2009

Without any snow, it might not matter.

With snow, I would make my way to the second opener on the 5 day restricted area. That is after hunting the other area for there first days.

Should have been more clear.

The DWR might think that people will go to the spot they have no matter what and it won't push people into an area they are trying to reduce the harvest.

All, I know is I didn't realize this could affect my second choice area. I don't think it is relavent, but if we draw our second choice, we will be moving camp on Tuesday.

As was mentioned above, many won't have noticed this change and many will hunt in the place that isn't open on the first sat.

proutdoors · Mar 17, 2009

Packout, sorry to disagree a bit with you, but Anis has been adamant that the harvest numbers for five day season areas are the same and sometimes HIGHER than the nine day season areas. So I am confused why he recommended the five day seasons on units with low buck:doe ratios. Having it start after the regular opener is risky as well. I don't like it and think it will have about as much success as antler restrictions and management hunts.

PRO

www.oddiction.com

Packout · Mar 17, 2009

No problem on the disagreement. As you know, I was on the Mule Deer Committee and we broke down the numbers in many ways. When we started breaking down the numbers the biologists were not committed to the idea of 5 day hunts and thier effect on buck to doe ratios. After much discussion, I felt most saw the restriction as either a great thing or something which couldn't hurt. The Mule Deer Committee recommended the changes and the UWDR, RACs, and Board agreed to put it into the plan. The start date came from the biologists implementing the Plan.

We have beat this topic a few different times, but in the end I will always feel the following:
-- Under the current weapon ratios, harvest can be limited by reducing hunter days afield. Hunter days are limited by A) reducing permit numbers, B) reducing season length, or C) both. Reducing the season length from 9 days to 5 days reduces hunter days by approx 1 day per hunter REGION WIDE. That is a 20% decrease in hunter pressure (on average). Only units between 11-14 bucks per 100 doe qualify for the 5 day hunts.

We need to get together one day, maybe scout for your moose.....

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www.sagebasin.com
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nebo12000 · Mar 18, 2009

DWR biologist have said in RAC meetings that 5 day vs 9 day hunt only amounts to about a 10% reduction in buck harvest. For me personally I like the idea of 5-10 bucks in any one given area being saved. Over several seasons (w/o hard winter kill) you will begin to see more bucks and bigger bucks. If the Nebo unit is any indicator of this, this should help. Nebo was part of the 5 day hunt several years ago and anyone that hunted the area knows that there began to be more bucks and absolutely bigger bucks. The last 2 years and the first year the 9 day hunt was put in place everyone that hunted the area was well aware of some of the incredible bucks that were taken. It has gone down hill since then. Approx. 4 years ago the buck doe ratio was 8 bucks/100 does. I think it is around 12-13/ now. I hope this works. Micro-managing these sub-units may be the best way to keep the herds healthier.

need4x4 · Mar 18, 2009

Well, now you really don't know how it will work, because it starts in the middle of the week. It is at least possible that this will backfire.

I don't think this (meaning this thread) was so much about 5 day season, it was about the particular start of the season, in effect giving people two opening days. With one tag.

Daxter · Mar 19, 2009

My concern is with the intense opening weekend pressure that will be put on the neighboring areas that still open on the regular opener. Many of the 5 day areas are spots that get a ton of pressure, now all those hunters are going to be somewhere else in the region on the opener. What is going to happen to those areas, many of which are just barely above the 15 bucks per 100 does? My guess is that it will slightly reduce harvest on the 5 day units, but I think it will increase harvest on the surrounding areas in the region.

It will be interesting to see how it all works and how many people mess up and hunt the wrong dates. It is kind of confusing how the shortened archery and muzz hunts open on the same day as other units but close early, and the rifle opens later and closes on the same day. Definetly going to be interesting.

SMELLYBUCK · Mar 19, 2009

Dax,

Glad you pointed the dates for muzz out. I breezed over it and thought it opened later. Case in point!!!

Seems like not enough questions were asked before this was decided. Placing the dates in the bottom of the page fine print isn't helping either.

I'm sure the mountains around Monre can absorb some pressure, but the Central Region will have some challenges. All the Tooele boys will have to drive at least an extra hour on the first opening day (if they got the message - if they didn't it will be close and great!!! Hey where is everybody???)