doe hunts

thebroker · Apr 22, 2009

hmmm this is a tough one . My opinion is that doe's eat better than bucks so why not shoot a few for the table. secondly last I heard it takes a buck to have a fawn, two to tango so to speek . I think i would rather see them on the table than in a predators mouth or road kill. DWR is not perfect but i believe do there best .I find it funny there are so many exsperts out there making statements without hard fact or numbers. I would like to see a youth and lady doe hunt why not let the kids get there first kill on something simple as well be able to introduce the girls to hunting without waiting to draw tags or have to walk and hunt for miles also hadicapped wounded wariors . there are some fun ways to go, to accomplish the buck doe ratio wich can benifit all

HillbillyNnevada · Apr 22, 2009

I am all for shooting does when they are exceeding objectives or unit carrying capacity. I have put a few on the table myself. I agree there are guys that think there is never a good time to shoot a doe. However, I am certainly suspect of Utah increasing doe tags when their herds are struggling like they are.

Scrillznac · Apr 23, 2009

When the doe:buck ratio is out of whack then it's a great thing to bring the unit down to objective. Plus you gotta figure a doe has up to 2 fawns a year. If the doe lives 10 years (just saying) that's 20 fawns in her lifetime. A buck can breed 10-15 does a year therefore producing over a hundred fawms in his lifetime not counting the first couple years. I just can't stand people being against doe hunts saying it "hurts the population" when in reality it helps it become a better unit. There's my 2 cents for what it's worth.

Scrill

HillbillyNnevada · Apr 23, 2009

I'm not against doe hunts. The reason the ratio is out of whack is because Utah shoots too many bucks and has done so for too many years. Instead of shooting more does when the overall population is under carrying capacity, why not shoot less bucks and bring the ratio up on that end and increase overall deer numbers as well as the ratio. But that would require someone to skip a tag for the annual 2 point massacre. The ratio may be so far gone that it would be impossible to spare enough bucks to permit the bucks side of ratio to catch up in relation to the doe side.

From some of the posts I read on here, I think the Utah government would be taken over by force if Utah residents only drew a rifle tag every 3-5 years like we do in Nevada.

Daxter · Apr 23, 2009

None of the doe hunts proposed in Utah are to improve buck to doe ratios. In my opinion, harvesting more does to improve buck to doe ratios is 'bass ackwards' management. Doe hunts should be used to address deer populations that are at or approaching the carrying capacity for the habitat, in other words, deer populations that are causing damage to their own habitats. Maybe in some cases doe hunts can be used to address localized deer populations that are causing damage to agricultural crops, although I personally don't much care for killing deer for that reason. Doe hunts should be used as a management tool to keep populations at healthy levels. If you look at what happened on the Kaibab Plateau when deer populations grew out of control, it makes a strong case for managing deer populations at a reasonable level. If there is a need to control deer numbers, doe hunts are effective, and can provide a good hunting opportunity. However, there are a lot more areas where deer populations are struggling than there are ares where we need to kill does to reduce the population.

Dax

mdfanatic · Apr 23, 2009

mmmm i'm not going to comment on the doe hunt but getting the kids out or lady's out to shoot a somewhat easy hunt would be good, wife wants to get some elk in the freezer so i told her i would put her in for an cow elk tag here in ut.
later
mdf

bobcatbess · Apr 23, 2009

"thejoker"!!!

GEEZUS!!!

DO YOU REALLY THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH DEER TO LET JUST ANY broker DO THEIR OWN DEER MANAGEMENT???

I'M GONNA COMMENT!!!

THERE ISN'T ONE PLACE IN TARDVILLE AS OF RECENT WHERE THERE SHOULD BE ANY DOE SHOOTER HUNTS TAKING PLACE!!!

YOU CAN BELIEVE ME OR YOU CAN BELIEVE THE UDWR!!!

IN AND FOR 37 YEARS AND COUNTING THE DEER MANAGEMENT IN UTAH HAS SUCKED!!!

EVEN WHEN THEY BRING EM BACK A LITTLE IN LE UNITS THEY HAMMER/SHOOT THEM UNITS OUT WITH POOR MANAGEMENT PLANS!!!

I'M GONNA CLUE YOU IN AGAIN!!!

NOT EVERY TARD CAN HUNT EVERY YEAR AND KILL A DEER EVERY YEAR AND EXPECT THE HERDS TO DO WELL IN TARDVILLE!!!

THIS AIN'T THE BANNER YEARS OF THE 1960'S!!!

THERES WAY MORE TARDS NOW & WAY LESS DEER!!!

UNDERSTAND IT???

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!

Scrillznac · Apr 24, 2009

Lol. Yea what he said........

thebroker · Apr 24, 2009

BOB I dare to disagree with you on this one I count several hundred does a day, any day I am in the field I might count 10 bucks on a good day, and after the two point slaughter opening day it dwindles down to 5 or less. I believe from field exsperience there are plenty of does and culling a few is not going to hurt the over all population . I dont believe grown men need to shoot them up. I would like to see the does be used for something more than meet for the table. Why not let the youths take a doe on the last day of there drawn buck hunt, build there confidence and thru success keep them in the field . why not let the seniors take one the ladys the handicaped . A doe taken by a youth might be the beging of a family legacy .. I went on a doe slaughter two years ago outside of vernal what a freeking nightmare and hunting discrace grown men prowling the roads running the does back and fourth shooting them all in a foot of snow . although this accomplished DWR objectives it was discracefull. had the northeastern youth buck tag holders been able to take a doe on the last day of there hunt the same objective would have been achieved for DWR , and the ethics of hunting would have been maintained

MULEYFREAK8 · Apr 24, 2009

Just put in and get a tag then dont shoot one if a bunch of people do that it will save a ton of deer now and in the future. I just dont see the point of this I hunt this unit every year as a dedicaded hunter im in the hills ALOT and there are not that many does to be killing off. Plus if they kill the does off what is the point of going hunting you never see any bucks anyways so we wont have anything to look at.

bobcatbess · Apr 24, 2009

LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-09 AT 04:05PM (MST)[p]WELL broker!!!

JUST SO YOU KNOW!!!

I USED TO DRAW DOE TAGS & HANG THEM IN THE BARBER SHOP!!!

AKA "SAVE A DOE"!!!

IF YOU THINK THERE ARE TO MANY DEER IN THE NE REGION YOU:::

1 WORK FOR THE UDWR????

OR!!!

2 DON'T SPEND AS MUCH TIME IN THE HILLS AS I DO???

SURE THE BUCK TO DOE RATIO AIN'T WHAT IT SHOULD BE!!!

BUT BY GAWD!!!

SLAUGHTERING DOES AIN'T HOW YOU GET THINGS BACK IN PERSPECTIVE!!!

UNLESS YOU THINK LIKE THE DWR???

WE JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DEER FOR EVERYBODY THAT WOULD WANNA DO WHAT YOU WANNA DO AND THAT IS::: SHOOT DOES!!!

SORRY!!!

YOU MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH ME & THATS OK!!!

I'VE SEEN PISS POOR DEER MANAGEMENT IN UTAH THE LAST 37 YEARS NOW!!!

DON'T YOU THINK IN 37 YEARS WE COULDA DONE SOMETHING BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAVE???

I GUESS THERES MORE STUPID TARDS IN UTAH THAN WHAT I KNEW OF???

THE UDWR SLAUGHTERED COW ELK FOR MANY YEARS CLAIMING IT TO BE THE WAY TO GET THE BULL TO COW RATIO'S BACK WHERE THEY SHOULD BE!!!

IT'S TOTAL BULLSSHIT!!!

ALOT OF TARDS SUCKED IT IN THOUGH I GUESS???

THIS YEAR ITS PISSCUTTER HUNTS IN LE ELK UNITS!!!

GEEZUS!!!

EDIT::

(( }> }> }> }> }> !!! )))

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!

tstewy · Apr 24, 2009

I hunt the north east region and let me tell u about letting youth kill does on the last day. 2006 In My area I killed a nice 4x4 saw probley 60 head of deer walked 7mi on the avrage day saw 13-14 bucks. 2007 saw 100 deer a day 15-20 bucks killed a great 4x4 same area 2008 after they put out 100 doe tags for vernal 40 deer 7 bucks 2 worth shooting. if there are so many does than please ship the to uintah basin we need them. if there are way way way to many does that have a hunt but unless it is like the bookcliffs where i might add they dont have doe hunt an i am not ware of them having them on any of good le units then why in the heck shoot them. if they do offer them than by all means all eat crow.

HillbillyNnevada · Apr 24, 2009

Keep issuing tags over there and before you know it you will need 12 points for a jack rabbit tag. I'm with Bobcat on this one.

thebroker · Apr 25, 2009

Bob makes a good point . I am not for doe hunts dont get me wrong . but i also know simple old me aint gonna change nothing . so i say if dwr is gonna have them then lets give them to the youth .... the last post i agee with about the vernal slaughter I was there for that ordeal and i can deffinitly see why it had an effect the following year I would gues there was a wounded doe for every doe taken doubling the kill ratio dwr was trying to achieve . if the tag was good for the last day for youth in there deer region there would be no slaughter they would be taken accross the region and not effect the over all heard such as the shoot the does in a fishing barel approach

MEEW · Apr 25, 2009

The first problem with doe hunts are that the DWR #'s are not even remotely close to correct. You have to attack that problem first, because as long as they THINK their #'s are correct then they are going to kill does, bucks, whatever. The way they count is simply a mathmatical equation and not even close to correct. We have to prove that their count is flawed. I know that some sfw members in the southern regions did a count and compared it to the DWR count and the dwr count was about 75% higher than the sfw count. Now they are having a doe slaughter by parowan and fillmore.. I'm with Bessy there is not a unit in tardville, that is even remotely close to having a legit doe slaughter, and probabally never will. BS

Daxter · Apr 25, 2009

I can understand your questioning of the deer population estimates. It is pretty hard to get a firm handle on the number of deer out there. The DWR numbers may be too high, but at the same time the numbers put together by sportsmen doing a count are probably too low. It just isn't possible to count all of the animals out there. Nobody will ever know exactly how many deer there are on any of the management units in Utah, so we just have to come up with the best method available for estimating deer numbers. I like how Idaho uses radio collars on does and fawns to get better estimates of survival to use in their models, and hear that something similar is being tested in Utah.

Estimating population size on animals like mule deer is really challenging. I think that is where doing some kind of habitat monitoring comes in as a really important supplement to a population estimate. It is important to look at the sagebrush, bitterbrush, cliffrose, mahoganies, etc and assess condition and quantity to determine if deer populations are having an effect on the habitat. This is where exclosures come in handy as well to determine if it is wildlife or livestock having the impact on plant communities. If the monitoring shows that plants are being over-utilized by wildlife then it may be time to reduce deer numbers (and start some serious habitat restoration/improvement efforts too).

It is my opinion that intentional reductions in deer populations should be tied to actual habitat conditions and not just to a modeled population estimate.

htnfool · Apr 25, 2009

Bobcat, I just love reading you chit.

Funny stuff

Lowlandmulies · Apr 25, 2009

I'm glad to see (sort of speak) that Utah has some of the same problems as Idaho. To many does being shot just to raise a few dollars to support the biologist that are making those bad calls. Doe hunts should only take place if the caring capacity of the land does not support the number of deer using it. It should never be used to get buck, doe numbers in check.

Some times there is a need for depredation hunts when the weather is bad. Hunters should be allowed to step in and take a few to save a few.

If the caring capacity is full, then doe hunts for all are appropriate for any hunter, not just youths. There are allot of people that could use venison and especially in this economy.

Steve
www.muledeercountry.com

SMELLYBUCK · Apr 25, 2009

dax,

Do you have any info on how anterless tag #'s are calculated? P.M. me if you have time and don't want to feed this theads fire - just curious.

smelly

p.s.

i must say i have 180 degree difference in opinion on the agricultural hunts. i think its the most noble form of hunting. there is no antler ego, it helps the guys trying to make a living off of the land, and the best tasting mule deer comes off of the alfalfa!!!