What do PETA and the Wildlife Board have in common

adamsoa

Active Member
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I read this post on another site and thought it was very well written. Congrats to Finn.



As hunters, we're always watching for assaults from PETA or the Humane Society. But the fact is, neither of those organizations really pose an imminent threat. PETA lacks the funding and the credibility to cause a significant threat. And while the Humane Society has both funding and credibility, they're smart enough to choose their battles.

The greatest threat to hunting in Utah today, incredible as it sounds, is a small group who actually pose as hunters. Within the hunting community, or fellowship or brotherhood or whatever you call it, there is a small but vocal and active contingent that wants to prevent you from hunting. Unlike PETA or the HSUS, they enjoy hunting themselves - a fact that in my mind makes them more contemptible than members of either of the renowned anti-hunting organizations.

But in what they believe is an attempt to improve their own hunting opportunity, they have no reluctance in working against the opportunity of other hunters. Their strategy is simple, and simple-minded, albeit without any ethics or sense of sportsmanship.

First, they work to divide us. They promote the notion that we are not all hunters, but distinct and separate groups of hunters: trophy hunters, meat hunters, rifle hunters, muzzie hunters, bowhunters, etc. And once they succeed in perverting the reality of seasons and permits into the fabrication of distinct groups of people, they work against those "groups" who are most vulnerable. Just as with HSUS, their primary target of choice is bowhunters.

They use pretty words like "fairness" and they offer fictions of conservation like "overcrowding" and "wound rates". This fraud, (and it's nothing more), plays well with decision-makers like the Wildlife Board. But it is no more than fraud since no scientific evidence supports their fiction any more than it supports the contention of the Humane Society that hunting is a gateway to violence against humans.

So they promote significant reduction of incentives for hunters to choose a bow. They have no concern for the fact that as a result, hunters who would normally apply for an archery permit apply for a rifle permit. In turn, the increase in competition for rifle permits results in hunters being denied a permit who could have otherwise been granted an opportunity to hunt. Yes, one result of this year's regional archery restriction is that some hunters who choose a rifle will be staying home.

And soon, the anti-hunters will push for further restrictions on archery hunting, driving even more hunters to join the rifle draw or hunt in neighboring states, (resulting in lost revenue to Utah). They would like to reduce the archery season to 9 days. They would like to eliminate the extended hunts. In fact, as openly stated by a representative in the southern region, they would like to outlaw bowhunting altogether.

And when these camo-clad anti-hunters have succeeded in their agenda to outlaw hunting with a bow, they will continue to actively move against hunters who are unwilling or unable to pay for trophy hunts, driving them to "go hunt in Colorado". As the director of the DWR and chair of the Wildlife Board has stated, "Those who pay... should be the ones to hunt."

PETA be damned, my friends. Watch out for the boys in camo.
 
So are you talking about SFW or members of our very own DWR..?

From what is written above, I can't tell them apart at this point... "to improve their own hunting opportunity"... "they work to divide us"... "Those who pay... should be the ones to hunt"...

All of this could be doctrine from either of these groups...
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-09 AT 03:08PM (MST)[p]He was talking about the Utah Wildlife Board. Some of the members are very vocal about these points. I also feel that some of the other groups such as those you listed above have a strong influence on the board in these very issues.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-29-09
>AT 03:08?PM (MST)

>
>He was talking about the Utah
>Wildlife Board. Some of
>the members are very vocal
>about these points. I
>also feel that some of
>the other groups such as
>those you listed above have
>a strong influence on the
>board in these very issues.


Ummm, since when has the Wildlife Board been adorned in camo? :eek:

BrowningRage, you are 100% correct on who the "threat" is implied to be by FINN's post! Saying SFW is a bigger threat than PETA/HSUS is beyond absurd.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
I more than agree. SFW does not like bow hunters. This is the only state where you can hunt elk in the rut with a rifle. That is why the abundant amount of conservation tags go for so much. SFW is one of the reasons the bow elk hunt in utah is not where it should be. They also premote these conservation tags that should be eliminated. Remember the state gets part off the money from these tags and so does the conservation group. Thats fine But where does all the money go??
 
I am an active member of Utah Bowmen Association and SFW. I see no conflict of interest in that. The president of SFW killed a monster buck in 2007 with a bow, another officer killed a heck of a bull elk on the Wasatch that same year with a bow. I wonder how it is possible for bowhunters to be "anti-bowhunting". It is comments like yours that are based on hyperbole and little/no facts that are a bigger problem than what you are whining about.

As for the conservation tags and where the funds raised from them goes, go get educated on the topic before spouting off how 'bad' they are! You have no idea what/how/why this program works.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
I commend you for participating in both organizations, but as we all know one of the greatest benefits of posting comments on this website is that you can completely hide your identity and say whatever it is you like and no one can dispute it, or prove otherwise. If you are a member of both, and I had to bet on it, I would say that you are probably a farely well-off maybe even rich sportsman. Most SFW members are that I know and read about.
I'm not knocking your tax bracket though. It has been my experience that SFW caters exclusively to deep pockets, and pushes for all kinds of hunts and regulations that display that every year. They are a threat because they will push the little guy out... And when sportsmen's numbers are low, all the money in the world won't save what we love from environmentalists and such... The little guys carry the numbers, please dont' forget about us.

I would like to think that you and I are on the same side proutdoors, we love our freedom to experience the outdoors as we see fit... As a working class citizen though, it is frustrating, and scary to watch men with deep pockets control that which I love most. And even more scary to see officials, appointed or otherwise, use their power and influence to access those deep pockets. This is how "I" see our Wildlife Board, and organizations like SFW...
 
And just another thought... Those bowhunters you mentioned do more harm than good for the exact reason you just mentioned proutdoors. They do just as you did and say "Just because I am in SFW, does that mean I am anti-bowhunting? Look at the Monster Muley I shot with my bow last year..." but to the greater part of SFW, bowhunters are token members, designated as bowhunters to show that SFW cares about all types of hunters, when in reality they do not.

I know members of SFW, (or at least I know they support SFW) and they are great guys. They are trophy hunters every one. They do bowhunt occasionally... Not all SFW members are selfish, but from what I read from them every year, collectively they are...
 
BrowningRage, my REAL name is Bart Hansen and you can click on the link at the bottom of my posts to see what I do for a living. I have been "working class" since the day I was born. I have no reason to 'hide' behind a screen name. I have been on the Utah Bowmen Association Board of Directors for the last 3 years. I do NOT consider myself a "token" bow hunter, I have been addicted to archery since my first hunt with a bow in 1983. I drew a LE archery elk tag in 2008, I think my commitment to archery is well documented. I know well over 100 SFW members very well, NONE of them are as you discribe the 'typical' SFW lackey to be. I believe making such blanket comments about an orginization is counter-productive and is what is a REAL cause of division amongst hunters. Being a 'trophy hunter' is not bad/wrong, it is NORMAL.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
Apparently "pro" has no idea how the conservation tags work either or he would had answered my question instead of blasting me for asking it. Those tags should be apart of the general draw so everyone has a chance not just rich guys. No other western state has even close to the number we have in Utah.
 
I don't have the time right now to post what I really feel, and it is probably best I don't. But I would like to call out Pro on a statement he made.

"The president of SFW killed a monster buck in 2007 with a bow." Can you kindly tell us about that hunt Pro? Was that buck taken in Utah on public lands, or was it taken in Colorado on a high price ranch hunt?

And for your information, there's a huge difference in a bowhunter and some people who hunt with a bow.

And on the other SFW officer or member who took the big elk in Utah, was that a public drawn tag, or one of the many high money tags sold by promoted by SFW that is not available to the common workman of woman from Utah?

I might be wrong and if I am I will owe you an apology Pro, but if you are referring to the buck taken in Colorado, then you have purposely tried to mislead and camouflaged the real facts.

Hunting a high priced ranch, for a high priced fee, where one can almost drive up to the almost un-hunted deer, should not be used as an example that those in SFW are pro bowhuning, as the ruler of that group is anything but pro bowhunting.

You may see no conflict of interest but I do. And you who have not allowed the hunters you guide to use expandable broadheads, up to this point, and are now encouraging them to use the Epic, which by the way is unproven at this point, seems to have the same conflict of interest. Is it the greatness of the broadhead you are promoting, or is it the fact that one of your best friends developed this yet to be proven head? I see a huge conflict of interest on both counts.

Perhaps if I made my living, or a good part of it from guiding or the hopes of guiding wealthy hunters, I too might see nothing wrong with Utah's vastly flawed, funnel the wildlife and opportunity to the wealthy system. But I don't thus I have a completely different veiw point!

When time allows I hope to give my take on this travesty. (SFW-Wildlife Board- DWR)

Have a good one. BB
 
I do know how it works, thanks for the concern though. My point for you is that you are bad-mouthing something you have no/little idea of. Utah spends more on habitat than ANY other western state, in large part because of the GREAT conservation program funded by these tags. 90% of the funds from these tags is required by law to be used on DWR approved conservation projects. This allows MORE deer/elk/turkeys/sheep/goats to be availble for the general public to hunt. I have posted the numbers before on here, if every conservation tag was put back into the general pool your/my odds the first year would go up by .03% of drawing a tag, but your/my odds woould go down long term because of habitat issues. The conservation program is one of the best success stories in conservation out there. Education on a subject does amazing things for ones self, you should try it.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
LAST EDITED ON May-01-09 AT 09:42AM (MST)[p]BB, the deer was killed in Colorado, but so what. It was killed with a bow by a guy I consider a friend who I KNOW has been hunting with a bow for many many years. My point is, he is a bow hunter, and he is NOT rich. I have worked with him on many occasions where the main beneficiary were archery hunters. He volunteers time/energy to help the Utah Bowmen Association where at one time he was an officer of this, the BIGGEST archery/bowhunting group in Utah, and he stills does lots for us EVERY year. How much more does he need to do before he can be called an archer? :eek:

The elk was killed by Ryan with a tag he obtained through the draw system by building points up just like you/I do.

As for the EPEK (Spell check is great) broadheads. I have done my research on this product and on the people behind this product. How is that a conflict of interest? I have them in my quiver ready to go for my turkey hunt that starts Monday. I would not support/promote/use them if I didn't feel confident in them. WTF does the EPEK broadheads have to do with SFW supporting archery? EPEK is NOT owned by SFW, so what's your point? FWIW, Greg is NOT "one of my best friends". I rarely talk to him outside of business, we have never gone to dinner/lunch together, we have never hunted together, we have never been to each others house before, how does that make him "one of my best friends"? Talk about a LIE. So yes, I would say you owe me an apology, but I won't hold my breath!

I make a SMALL, very SMALL percentage of my yearly income from guiding. Get a clue!

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
Bart let me start with the apology I owe you. I am sorry for offending you and getting any of my facts mixed up. I take full responsibility for my actions and words and the facts that I mistated. I truly am sorry. I do however stand behind much of what I said.

I just happen to know a bit more about the deer your friend shot in Colorado and I still feel it was misleading in the context you used it. I felt and still do, especially now I know we are talking about the same person and same deer. No doubt it was taken with a bow and no doubt it was an awesome deer, but it was taken on a high pay ranch, with very little pressure, where the deer are akin to "park" deer, so the challenge of taking that deer, with a bow, is far from what most bowhunters, who take nice buck on the Wasatch Front or wild deer elsewhere, have to pay, with the exception of the $$ price. And since your friend is far from rich, perhaps he was comped on that hunt, as some in that organization are for all they send and for all they have done for the private landowners. I don'' know the details on that, I just know your friend hunts with a bow, but I really don't consider him a true bowhunter or a true friend of the Utah bowhunters and I know many others who feel the same way. Have you ever heard of a lion in sheep?s clothing?

I have belonged to UBA far longer than you or he and so I do have a pretty good understanding of the organization and the good they have done. I also understand undermining, how it works and the signs when it exists.

The DWR, Wildlife Board, SFW have all done some great things in this state for wildlife, but the way the politics have given way to the course it now takes is shameful and is a very big, long term threat to our hunters and our wildlife. Hide it as many do, paint it with a pretty color, camo it all they can, for as long as you can, and rape the system for all you may, but at some point soon it will all manifest the ugly beast it has become.

I still find it strange that you endorse a type of un proven broadhead ( I am not saying its good or bad, just at this point it is truly unproven) when just a couple years ago you were against those type of head for elk hunting. Since you don't know the guys very well you must know a lot more about the broadhead than what the public knows. Again I apologize for thinking and misstating the facts. It has nothing to do with this discussion, and it was poor example, but what I felt and still continue to feel is very strange.

I did realize you are more a wannabe guide than a full time outfitter who makes the major part of his living from guiding. But with Utah's policies it sure is advantageous, to some guides, that are within the flock. It may not be a conflict of interest, but you have to agree that you are far better off, if you want to get clients referrals, bying giving your support to SFW than if you stand up against them. Let's just say it would be good business to be on board, and we can leave it at that. Sorry for the conflict of interest statement, as I don't think some people in the Division or in SFW even knows what that means. Me Me Me Me!

Have a good one. BB
 
BB, now that I recall who you are it makes things a bit clearer. I believe you were the first person I talked to from these hunting forums a few years back. I happen to know the owner of the land in Colorado as I was once a business associate of his a few years back. I even helped promote a few deer hunts on that ranch. I am confused as to why John hunting on private property makes him less of a bow hunter than someone who hunts on the Wasatch Front, you still need to fling a stick through the vitals don't ya? Both are accepted by Pope and Young aren't they? Both are fair chase aren't they?

As for the EPEK, they have been tested big time in the field and in the 'lab'. Just because it is new to the public doesn't mean it was designed a few months ago. I do not endorse very many products, and ALL that I do endorse I use myself. I admit to being a mechanical broadhead hater, but it is because of some of the flaws I see in how they operate. These flaws have been eliminated with the EPEK. They have dozens of you-tube clips showing it's performance. I have retired my 3 blade muzzy's and replaced them with 100 grain EPEK's. I have talked at length with the EPEK guys, I have researched them and I have shot them. I am proud to sell them on my website, and I will recommend them to any/all who ask for my opinion on them.

I used to hate carbon arrows when they first came out, but after many improvements I shoot nothing but carbon arrows now. Technolgy is great! I also was once a fingers only shooter, now I am using a tension release, go figure.

I have openly and LOUDLY voiced opposition in private and in public with SFW on a few different topics. But, that does NOT make them enemy #1. Good hell I have disagreements with UBA on some issues, and I sit on the board. You served for many years within UBA, I highly doubt you agree with all they did/do in regards to bow hunting over the years.

Apology accepted, had I been smart enough to recall who you are I would never have asked for an apology. We are good! Thanks for the many battles you have waged on behalf of bowhunters over the years.

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
200 expo tags, 200 conservation tags, Out of control landowner tags, Larger and more CWMU's, and Governors tags Thats where your tags are boys.Can we at least take a look at other ways at raising money for wildlife???????? Conservation tags 1981 to 2007 Utahs best tags in the best places. Deer 402, Elk 593,Pronghorn 205, Bear 90,Moose 77, Desert sheep 76,Rocky mt bighorn 34, and goat 33. There is a good chance your dream tag is among these numbers. Lets find different ways to raise money so we don't have to give up these great tags.
 

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