Brow tines - Why is it that.....

Agar426

Member
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78
So, explain this to me. I was watching a video this past weekend and the guide was counting the points on the buck they downed and the hunter asked about the brow tines and the guide said "those don't count." I have seen this on many occassions either on film or in print where a buck that has a good set of eye guards is referred to as a 4x4 and not a 5x5? B&C counts them, are they not the G1? Things that make you go hmmmmnnn....
 
I think it's more of a family tradition... in my family of muley hunters, we always counted the buck and referred to total points without counting brow tines/eyeguards (some muleys may be missing one or both; some muley bucks may have forked or multiple brow tines)on the side of antlers with the most points, i.e. a 4x3 or 3x4 or other combination was a 4-point buck; a 6x4, a 6-point buck; a 5x7, 7x6, 7x4 or some other combination was a 7-point buck.Come to think of it, NV requires points to be punched out on tag, and we usually didn't count the brow tine, so may have been validating tag incorrectly in cases where brow tine were present!
 
We've always counted total points, including browtines, on everything. 4x4, 5x4, 6x7 etc.

I've always wondered myself why mule deer are the only animal that people for some reason don't count every point on.
 
The way me and most guys i know countem is, if it is a 4x4 with brows, its still a 4x4. but when they start to grow abnormal points, we count the brow tines. kinda strange if you think about it i guess.
 
Kinda like measuring the outside spread of the antlers. We all do it but Boone and Crocket only measures the inside spread. fatrooster.
 
I've always given Ryan Hatch crap about that.Muley Crazy will count a 1" cheater as a point,but won't count a gnarly 5" brow tine!!WTF???
 
It's because we're not hunting Whitetails! LoL

A four point to us is a 4x4. If it has eye guards, it's a four point with guards. If it has cheaters, it could go either way... 4x4 with cheaters or 4x6 for example. If we were in Whitetail country, that same 4x4 with guards would be a 10 point...a little decieving if you ask me.

But I do agree that allot has to do with family tradition.


Just my 2?.


~ERock
 
Ya those whitetail hunters have to sound mighty though!! They kill a yearling with eye guards and its a damn 6 point lol give me a freaking breaK! When somone tells me they killed a 5x5 it better have two inlines or two cheaters because if they count the eye guards its just plain weird. It should just be assumed that every mature or semi mature animal has eye guards. Probably tradition for me also.
 
That's just how we do it. I really don't know why!

I wonder if it comes from the days of hunting without any optics besides a rifle scope, and you couldn't always see the eye guards.

Take out more than you brought in!
 
I've always considered a good typical 4X4 with eye gaurds a four pointer. However, if you are scoring them for throphy score or a big buck contest they have always been considered and counted as scorable points. That's what is nice with pictures - they tell it the way it is, no matter who is counting or how they count. Just my take!!! Good question.
 
Growing up hunting blacktails if you killed a buck with eye gaurds that was something. If it was a 4pt and it happend to have eye gaurds it was a four point with eye gaurds. I still have not killed a blacktail or mule deer with eye gaurds. So all of my 4pts are just 4pts.
 
It all comes down to education and where they grew up. Some guys were never educated in scoring deer in the official way. They just had ol paps tell them it was just a 4x4 so that's all it ever was.
lol

Archery is a year round commitment!!
 
If somebody says they shot a 5 point buck it better not be a 4 point with eye guards.....it's just not right. Kind of like saying you have an suv when it's a 2 wheel drive 4runner or something. Just like when someone says they caught a 20 in brown trout.......come on look at the pic it's only 17......don't try to butter it up dirt.
 
We all know there's several ways to explain the points on a buck and it's probable just caused by how your dad, Uncle, Grandpa, neighbor..., first explained it to you way back when.

If it matters and i really care to know, i generally ask which points were included in the count but i usually don't as some have strong feelings on the matter and to me, it's not worth the debate. Like some here, i grew up chasing Blacktails and no, the brow tines were never counted but used in addition, three pointer "with eye guards."

Another thing, what we called a 3X2 was good enough to be accepted as a "three Pointer" and a 4X2, a 4 pointer. Again, no B-tines were included. A 2X2 was always a "Forky" except in the case of a "Fork-spike." Probably near half the blacktail bucks i killed have at least one b-tine, maybe 20% had both.

Whenever i see or hear of a buck described as/like 8 X 7, 7 by 6, or 5 X 5 ,... i generally expect that the brow tines were included.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-09 AT 03:23AM (MST)[p]>Kind of like
>saying you have an suv
>when it's a 2 wheel
>drive 4runner or something.


Haha. I know what you mean, but four runners are all four wheel drive, hence the name. If someone's driving a four runner, it most definitely is an SUV.

I personally don't really care what you call it, I want to see pictures anyway. Up here we hunt whitetail and muleys, so just about every way of counting gets used. As long as you're counting both horns separately, we're good.
 
Yes, it all depends on where you grew up.

"Brow tines", are on elk.

Deer have "eyeguards".

......Ca DFG says, "count them if you want". I don't, even if they have doubles.

Anybody ever been in the South and heard what those boys call an evening out looking for girls?......I wasn't ABOUT to drop the soap, in the shower in boot camp!
 
if BC COUNTS THEM IN SCORING and you use it to score your rack why wouldn't you count them, if he grew them why wouldn't you count them,it the same as a sticker he grew or a droptine right. I guess if you grew up in a area that had WT and Muley it's different.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-09 AT 02:33PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-09 AT 02:30?PM (MST)

BC also deducts points (inches), didn't the buck grow it? Who says that BC is the way were suppose to count points?




"Somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its idiot."
 
Well! I started this post, and just now got to checking it. Clearly it's a tastes great/less filling debate that will not be resolved. Also, a couple of other points were raised, so since I never gave an opinion, I'll give mine now.

1) Growing up, my family always called them by the total # of points, so a "10 pointer" had ten points....period. As long as they met the minimum of what a point is, we counted it, eye guards and all. Also, as we got older, we started using "5x5" and what not, and for us a 5x5 included the eye guards.

2) Elk have brow tines, deer have eye guards - I'm ok with that, I wasn't thinking too hard when I posted. My bad.

3) SUV's - Not that it relates to Muley's (unless I'm loading one into the back of mine! ;-)), but I agree, especially when it comes to Jeeps. Why is every small 4x4 called a Jeep? Not that Jeep's are the best (I own three of them and even I know that every vehicle has its own merits), but what's so hard about calling a 4x4 by the right name? I mean, I don't recall any Suzuki Samurai's helping out the allies in WWII where the Jeep made its name! But, I see more samurai's called Jeep's than Samurai's!

4) Other car nit picks - Even more off topic, but I'm in a playful mood. Why are all car restorations called "frame off?" What did you take the frame off of? The ground? The axles? It's either "Frame Up" or "Body off" not frame off. Some cars don't even have frames!

Ok, sorry to jump so far off topic, but I figured I ought to jump in the mix that I started, and see if I could stir a little more!
 
Hey Guys....Check out this MONSTER 8 pt I got this season:

4a7e0e7c13a6e186.jpg



Just Kidding! This is my first Bow Kill from 2k7 and a good example of either a 4pt or 4x3 with an eye guard or a 3x3 with a cheater and an eye guard or.....I give up!! But for sure it's not no 8pt!!

LoL



~ERock
 
OK, How come lemon juice is made with artificial flavors and dish washing liquid is made from real lemons?

Brow tines, eye guards, same same. You can call them either way on a buck and IMO, you wouldn't be wrong.

Don't sweat the small stuff! :)

Joey
 
Let me throw this in the conversation to see if it adds perspective:

Let's say you're one who doesn't count the eye guards, and you kill a net 185 typical buck that has no eye guards. What have you got - a great buck that anybody would be proud to take, and a footnote...."if only he had 5 more inches somewhere...." Now take that same buck and throw a couple of 2.5" eye guards on him. Now what do you have?

I believe they call that a Booner....and I damn sure bet the "eye guards don't count" guys would be counting them in this case!

p.s. - And for those who say that B&C doesn't matter (I am one of those), let's face it. Even to those guys, I can bet you anything that if they had the extra 5", I doubt they would hold back the fact that their buck made the books!

Food for thought....
 
That is a nice buck...especially for archery. However if you were my buddy and called me and said that you had killed a 4 point and then sent me that pic I would say...hey were is the 4 point...all I see is a good 3x3 with a cheater and an eye guard.

They do make 2wd Toyota 4Runners. I saw one in Salt Lake that looked a lot lower to the ground than normal and so I looked under the front end and sure enough 2 wheel drive. Just like the Pre-runner 2wd Tacoma. They are even high up as the TRD with the 4wd fenders. Imposters...just like adding eye guards :)
 
4a7e197c4a8b538e.jpg


Good point. I think that once a deer in close to make book then count all the bone. I just get sick and tired of people who kill 3 points and have eye guards and call them 4 points. Here is my 4 point buck...I would never call it a 5 pt. However, if it was anywhere close to book I would count the eye guards for thier length. Then if it did make book I would say that my 4 point (with eye guards) make book. Ha ha this thread cracks me up.
I think there is one conclusion for all of us. When you shoot a buck, it does not matter what you call it....just show us a friggin' picture:)
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-09 AT 10:56PM (MST)[p]+1 Stubaby! For scorin, count what counts. For braggin, show a picture and tell it how Tradition taught you (unless it's a Whitetail....LoL)

That is a Good 8 pointer with eye guards you got....I mean 5 pointer....I mean....ah nevermind! None the less, it's a great buck however any of us calls it!

~ERock
 
>They do make 2wd Toyota 4Runners.
> I saw one in
>Salt Lake that looked a
>lot lower to the ground
>than normal and so I
>looked under the front end
>and sure enough 2 wheel
>drive. Just like the
>Pre-runner 2wd Tacoma. They are
>even high up as the
>TRD with the 4wd fenders.
> Imposters...just like adding eye
>guards :)

Don't mind me, just munching on some crow.
 
I think it is because everyone knows what you are talking about when you say you shot a nice four point. If you start saying I shot a 5x5 people are going to wonder if it has extras somewhere else.
 

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