Flattest, fastest, most accurate deer gun????

Elmacho

Elmacho

Active Member
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546
I am thinking of a new toy.

This gun would be for muleys and coues, lopes only.

I am considering getting a 257, 270 or 7mm weatherby mag since they guarantee less than 1 in group. price is in the right range too.

I want a gun capable of dumping a coyote at 600 yds...of course I'll have to learn to do that too....

what are your suggestions? Kimber, Sako, caliber?????

hunt safely.

Mark
 
What you want is a .22 eargesplittenloudenboomer. It is an experimental cartridge, .378wby necked down to .22 cal. It was intended to reach 5,000 fps, it didn't quite get there but with today's slower powders I'm sure it would. The perfect yote gun although it had a reputation for spinning bullets apart.
 
i'm not to keen on the 7mm weatherby, if i was going to pick from those three calibers for a deer and antelope rifle i would go with the 270. You can load it down for yotes as well. Not sure how you figure those calibers guarantee 1 in or less. Has more to do with the rifle/barrel/triger/powder. Swap out the weatherby for a 7 mag or better yet a 7mm stw and i would go with that. I tend to like the remington 700 myself so thats what i'll suggest. Any new toy is a good toy


"blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for Rosie O'donnell being fat."
 
Thanks guys, its not a coyote gun, its for muleys, coues and lopes.

Weatherby has a line - "Vanguard Sub MOA" that is guaranteed to shoot 1 inch or better with premium ammo- their ammo or something like hornaday or federal premium and thats from a cold, clean barrel.

I've grown frusterated with my Ruger 7 rem mag. It takes about 10 rounds to get it started at any reasonable group, then if I'm real lucky I may get one 3 shot group to do an inch, if I shoot 6 or 7 groups. I alread put a great trigger job on it and a muzzle break....not going to spend more on it
 
I am hunting deer in CO with a 257 weatherby right now. You can go to Weatherby's website, and do a ballistic comparison of all their cartridges two at a time. I have a custom pre-64 model 70 with a Pac-Nor barrel in 257 wby, and a stainless Vanguard in 257 wby. The $600 Vanguard shoots just as well as my $2200 Winchester. However, if $$$ is an issue, just understand that buying Weatherby ammo is almost as painful as getting kicked in the nuts.
 
+1 on the Vanguard .257. Also, a 25-06 blazes out of the barrel and has a lot of different bullet options if you reload.

I still say go with a 300 RUM. Put a break on it and it will shoot as far as you can learn to shoot it!
 
the fastest/newest one is the .17/378 weatherby

VJ
49ca8f1a4fbfdf37.jpg
 
You are all hillarious... I would go with a 7mm ultra mag. Loaded with 150 Barnes TSX. There are a few different variations in the 700 action. Wood, synthetic, stainless etc. If you were going for elk I would say the 300 RUM. The Vanguard is a nice action, but the 700 rem. I believe is built better. Easy to tune the trigger as well..Check out the ballistics on this at federals website. You can do great comparisons there. Good luck and enjoy your new toy whatever it amy be.
 
The 257 weatherby is neat but the vanguard only comes with a 24" barrel. That's like putting a restrictor plate on a nascar motor. That is one cartridge that needs length to get max velocity. In that cartridge you can be losing as much as 150fps vs. a 26" barrel. But 26" barrel blanks cost more and that's one reason weatherby is able to keep the cost down on the vanguard.

There's a lot of good choices. I used to hunt with a 264 ultramag (wildcat) but that was a little overbore. There's a lot of good choices out there. Just depends exactly what you want to do and how much you want to pay for ammo. Some people like to be unique and have something a little different but being unique always costs more. There's a lot of great fast deer cartridges out there.
 
I love the 257 weatherby but on winy days it travels a lot. I think the 270wsm,300wsm would do you well. Do you reload because that makes a difference in what gun to choose. 7mm ultra mag might not be bad.















"Let's keep things in perspective.I mean for Peet's sake there are kids in Africa that don't even hunt....hello" Jimmy Big Time
 
I am going to recommend the .270 WSM also. I have a Winchester Model 70 Featherweight (2006 model) that I shoot 140 grain Winchester Accubond factory ammo. I use it as my mule deer/antelope gun and absolutely love it. It is a very flat shooting cartridge that can knock em down. As for sighting it in, could not be easier.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-09 AT 00:58AM (MST)[p]I'm a 270WSM guy too.

One topic that we discussed in depth on the "guns and shooting" forum not too long ago had to do with the 270WSM and the 300Ultra Mag. If both shooting factory 150gr ammo, the two cartridges have near the same energy and feet per second at approx 6-700yds with the WSM getting the nod at farther distances.

Put the two cartridges along side each other and looking at them, you wouldn't believe the above statement. The 270WSM is just a very efficient little cartridge. In all fairness the 300Ultra smokes any of the WSM's in 180 & 200gr bullets but for the game you're talking of taking, the 270WSM in 130-150gr pills is one of the better ones.

Edit; My 280 Ackley Imp. is actually hotter and flatter shooting with my hand loads than my WSM is with factory stuff. My 280AI is a few lbs heavier gun with a 25" tube so i don't use it as often anymore but it's a dandy cartridge that is worth mention as it is also very efficient and can reach "out there" with the best of them.

Joey
 
I Have a 270 weatherby vanguard and I love it. It is the best shooting gun I have ever shot. Normaly I just shoot factory loads out of it,and it shoots awesom great groups no kick what so ever and you can use it for just about anything.
 
Another vote for the 270 WSM. Kicks like a regular 270, hits like a magnum. I went with a Tikka T3 lite/stainless and am very happy with the choice. It shoots groups under an inch (which they guarantee) and is a pleasure to carry where the air is thin and the trails feel like you're walking up a treadmill.

It's not a pretty gun, but I bought it as a hunting tool, and it's perfect for what I need it to do. I too have had good luck with factory accubonds.

Hey Lip Curl- Does Hornady load for the 270 WSM now?

WH
 
It sounds like the 270wsm is getting the nod here. I'd have to agree. I just switched to that caliber myself from an ultramag because you can get a lighter gun, it is a very efficient and fast cartridge that is perfect for deer & sheep. You can shoot a 140 grain bullet over 3300fps, you don't need more speed or weight than that for deer.

I wouldn't choose this cartridge if it was my one gun for everything but for deer/antelope/sheep it's about perfect. If I'm hunting big stuff I pick up the 338, 375 or 416.

If it's something that needs extra killing I just grab my 50bmg which I think is the perfect all around jack-rabbit gun. There's not more beautiful video than watching 50 cal tracers on jackrabbits in the snow.
 
I would stick with the .270 and I like the Remington 700 and I like the Browning bolt actions as well and I know a lot of guys on here will disagree but they do shoot well. The accuracy is going to depend on the gun, barrel, action etc. every gun is different and the type of bullets and poweder you use. There is a lot to accuracy when you get down to it. You can make it as complicated as you want, meaning you can just buy a gun and a box of shells and go shoot the thing and it will probaly shoot a 2-3" group at 100yds or you can buy powder, bullets, primers and reload them and work on a recipe that that paticular gun likes.


Good luck,

Slide

I would go the the gun store and handel them and see what gun fits you rhe best as well.
 
I keep seeing the 25-06 and 257 wby driving tacks.....I mean unreal, but I'd like to go with a 130-140 grain bullet. Is the 270 WSM or WbY as accurate as the 25s

remember, I want a deer gun solid to 500, capable of target shots out to 800
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-09 AT 01:22PM (MST)[p]The 270wsm is faster than the 264 win mag even while using a shorter barrel. It is much more available as a factory cartridge as well. The 264 winnie is a great round but not if you don't handload.

For the most part accuracy will be determined by the individual rifle not the cartridge it is chambered in. If your wanting to shoot 130-140grain bullets that rules out the 25's. Your optimum caliber for that weight is goint to be .264 or .277, You can shoot 140's in a 7mm as well but that's a little light for caliber and won't give you optimum B.C. for that bullet weight.
 
I shoot the 270wsm and love it. I finally worked up a load that is both fast and shoots well. 3290fps with 140gr Berger VLD and puts 5 rounds in a half inch. Lots of bench time to get it perfected but the results are worth it.
 
It it were me, I'd take a remington model 700 chambered in .243. You can use 55 gr factory loads at near 4000 fps to kill dogs. 100 gr nosler partitions or sierra game kings is plenty for medium sized game. Cheaper to reload and cheaper factory loads. Just an fun, flat shooting rifle with little recoil.
-Raptor
 
30-378 sure does make a nice coyote gun, 782 yds spun him like a top.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
 
Don't count the 264 mag out against the 270 short mag quite so soon Deadi.
264 Win Mag with 140 grain Berger @ 3150 fps (my load) and BC of .595 catches the 270 Shortmag @3290 with a Berger 140 grain with a BC of .487 by 400 yards. By 1000 yards the 264 is going almost 200 fps faster and has 180 foot pounds more energy and about 5 inches less drop, thanks to the higher BC. Actually the 150 grain 277 Berger going a little slower but with a BC of .531 will make the ballistics almost identicle to 1000 yards. I don't think the 270 short mag has anything on the 50 year old 264 Win mag, ballistically speaking.
 
All of the cartridges that have been mentioned have merit and will get the job done. The most important thing if you intend to shoot long range is knowing your gun. That means knowing the trajectory and ballistics of the cartridge, knowing the distance to your target, superb trigger control and lots of practice. If you do those things and shoot within your own limitations any of the mentioned cartridges will work fine.

I picked up a new piece this summer that I have been really happy with, a Remington 700 SPS Stainless in .257 Wby Mag. It has a 26" tube and has proven to be very accurate. My first shot on game resulted in a one shot kill on a nice Wyoming Pronghorn. Pics are posted over in the antelope forum.

Good luck with whatever gun/cartridge you choose.
 
I've always loved my 7mm Mag. Hot,flat and packs a load! last year I bought a Browning XBolt in 7mm-08. I have a new love now! Carry it all day,easy on the range and a dream to shoot.
 
I agree with most of the posts here, .257 to .30 caliber would all be great. Personally I like the .277 for mule deer in a 140 or 150 grain bullet, so anything like a 270 WSM, 7mm WSM, or one of Weatherby's equivalents would be fantastic. I shoot the 270 WSM.

One thing that has not been mentioned, that I feel is much more important than which specific caliber you choose, it the fit and feel of the gun. I looked at Weatherby, Howa, Sako, Tikka, Browning, and others before deciding on my Remington 700 LSS. The laminated stock on that particular rifle has a Monte Carlo cheek piece that just fits me perfectly. I might have found a more accurate rifle with Sako or Weatherby, but after I bedded my 700 it shoots around 3/4" pretty consistently with the right load. So my advice is to go out and heft them all - then when you decide which gun you like, make your caliber selection from what's offered in that brand.
 
Apex I did count out the 264 already. Why? With Magpro and a 140 I can beat the velocities you quote the 270wsm capable of by 100fps. There goes your advantage. Also this is being accomplished with a shorter barrel, a shorter and lighter action and a cartridge that doesn't have a belt. As far as the 180 fpe you claim, that has now vanished along with the bullet drop at 1000 yards. As far as fpe goes, I don't even bother with that, it's all pixie dust. I wiped my azz with the energy charts in all my reloading manuals and was better served by doing so. Besides a larger diameter projectile makes a bigger wound channel and that does much more for killing than fpe.

No, to be honest the winnie is a great cartridge and I'm just busting your sack. The truth is all the cartridges mentioned will work just fine and honestly I got burned out years ago at the gun counter doing cartridge comparisons.

I will say this though, anyone shooting at game at 1,000 yards distance doesn't have an ethical bone in their body. So it would be best to keep the comparisons within realistic hunting yardages. I apologize if I offended anyone who just got done watching The Best of the West.
 
Deadi
Belt or no belt means nothing, real reloaders adjust their loading dies to headspace off the shoulder and not the belt anyway. Some guy on Long Range hunting was quoting velocities in the 3350 fps range with 140 grain bullets in the 264, so their goes your advantage. We could argue this all day.
In all reality the two cartridges are very similar ballistically. I have a pre 64 model 70 westerner and a Remington 700 CDL SF I picked up last year, both with 26 inch barrells both 264 Win Mags. I've been trying to get some loads worked up for the Remington with Bergers. Smacked a 16 inch diameter gong 5 times straight at 825 yards 2 days ago and about an 8-9 inch group.
I've never killed a game animal past 450 yards, or shot at one either, killed a few prairie dogs a little farther. I'm not advocating shooting at game past what a guy is comfortable with and with most guys thats not very far. I'm just trying to stretch my ethical shooting range a little with load development and practice.
Been reloading and shooting high powered rifles for over 40 years and am just now trying to do something different than sighting them in "3 inches high at 100".
The 264 came out in 1958 and was way ahead of its time. Powders at the time wouldn't allow it to reach its full potential. When Remington came out with the 7mm Mag (which is just the 264 necked up to .284} in 1963 it dang near wiped out the 264. Remington is now chambering it in the Sendero and in limited runs of model 700's,which is giving it new life.
Deadi, I believe the 270 Short Mag is a good round, but I don't think the 264 gives up anything to it.
And a thirteen thousands bigger wound canal doesn't really impress me much
There are some very good suggestions on this thread and I'm just giving another point of view.
Now if you really want something, have a gun built in the 22/50BMG Earsplittsenboomenbanger (those other guys got the name wrong), now thats a real gun. By the time you work up a load, its time for a new barrell.
.
 
Thanks guys. IfI recall, 264 is a better choice for a serious handloader. I do not have time for handloading now, maybe in a few years(too many lil kids and stuff).

I am down to 270WSM vs 270 Weatherby.....only thing I can think is the WSM may be a lil lighter due to shorter action???

Any performance difference? andwill 2 inches of barrel be a decision maker or breaker?

Mark
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-09 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]Go price factory ammo, the weatherby will cost nearly double. You can still buy federal classic 270wsm for under $30 a box. The weatherby is $50+ a box.

The weatherby will outperform the wsm but not enough to even worry about.
 
deadibob, I thought you were a 6.5 fan with that 6.5 ultra hey i should have my 6.5 creedmore right away and that is one impressive little round my wife shoots the 260 rem just thought i would try a more recoil friendly 1000 yrd round ooh yeah i sold her 270 wsm i hated that round from the day i bought it all hype just my opinnion!!!!
 
The 260 is a neat little round. The 6.5 ultra was fun but inefficient, if I was doing it over again the 7ultra makes more sense. What was hype about the 270wsm. I wasn't real excited about that round when it first came out but I've warmed up to it for deer sized game. Was it the gun or the cartridge you didn't like?
 
You should ask some of your buddies if you could try a few of there guns to see what you are comfortable with.. Most of the guns mentioned here are great guns. Over the years I have had several great guns I loved and had faith in. Here is a list of guns 5 out of about 50 that I have owned that I felt I could shoot any animal with and it couldn't get away.

1.7mm rem mag in a rem ADL
2. 7mm stw sendero
3. 257 weahterby mark 5
4. 257 weatherby Acu mark
5. 30-378 Acu mark












"Let's keep things in perspective.I mean for Peet's sake there are kids in Africa that don't even hunt....hello" Jimmy Big Time
 
I shoot a Weatherby vanguard backcountry in 257 wby mag and love it. shoots flat and 1/2 groups at 100 yds straight out of the box. One drawback is the wind. The 100 grn barns tsx gets blown around by the wind a little.
 
I have a 270 wsm and it does the job I shot an elk with it and put a three inch hole in its sholder. when i shot my deer last year it ran about twenty yards after i hit it. it had a good hole in it. i love my gun and they shoot the best out of any gun i have ever shot
 
stw.jpg

All things--including chamber pressure, barrel length and bullet weight--being equal, the ST family is usually about 200 fps faster than shorter cartridges of the same caliber. From left to right: .257 STW, .257 Weatherby Magnum, 6.5mm STW, .264 Winchester Magnum, 7mm STW, 7mm Remington Magnum, .358 STA, .358 Norma Magnum.

I like my 7mm stw with 168gr bergers myself, but there are allot of calibers out there.The .257 STW has some impresive numbers itsself, but if it wind drift problems your concerned about I'd look at something in the .30's myself.
Good luck!

My next guns a 30-378, you can't argue with the performance numbers of that pill!
 
Well I know there are a few deer out there than can out run the 33/460 VJ (or should I say vajayjay??) so he better go with something faster. I know we should set up a bullet race!!


UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)
 
deadibob, I normally stay out of these conversations anymore. but seeings how you have opined your knowledge on several posts, I would like for you to explain to me the response you gave to cabinfeaver in post #22..
 
Thanks....great to see all the input.

270 WSM....is there enough difference between 24 and 26 in barrel to matter?

Mark
 
The cartridge is designed to work with a shorter barrel. In reality the only thing that will know the difference is your shoulder from the extra weight.
 
This is a great post and I might as well add my 2 cents.
It seems the general consensus is he should go with a .270WSM
Having owned one and seen a lot of game killed with it I would agree it is a great round.
The funny thing is it seems to perform exactly like the regular ole' 270 on game.(Which is a good thing)
The advantages to just getting a regular 270 win. though are many.
#1 The ammo is about as cheap as you can buy and you can get it anywhere.
#2 The ammo loads so much smoother out of the magazine without the big fat case and sharp shoulder.
#3 It is much easier to handload the 270 win. having more case available for longer bullets.
#4 Probably the biggest advantage is fitting 5 rounds under the bolt instead of 3.
#5 With handloads I can nearly duplicate the vel. of the 270 WSM
These are some of the reasons I sold my 270WSM and went back to the good ole' 270 winchester.Just some things to consider before you buy.
I think ole' Jack O'Conner new what he was talkin about!
 
Sure thing Reddog. Cabinfever said the ballistics on a plain jane 7mag are hard to beat. I said not really. Now there are several 7mags on the market but because he said plain Jane I made the assumption he meant 7mm rem mag because it is the most popular of the 7mags, making it the plain jane, it is quite reasonable to think that is the cartridge he was referring to. I'm sure he'll chime in if he meant something else but I don't know of a cartridge called the 7mm plain jane magnum.

Now the 7 remmy is a great cartridge but it's not that hard to beat,there are many other cartridges out there with better ballistics. Of course we must first define the words BETTER and BALLISTICS. Better could be defined by either performance or efficiency, a case could be made for either but for now let's define performance as better. Let's stick with velocity, B.C. and Trajectory for ballistics.

Now if we compare a different caliber we can find a bullet/cartridge combo with a higher velocity and a higher B.C., So let's make it simple by sticking with the 7mm or .284 caliber so we are using the same bullets to make a fair comparison (taking b.c. out of the equation) and we can find several cartridges which outperform the plain jane 7mm rem mag ballistically. The three most common are the 7mm STW, 7mm weatherby and 7mm rum, all three of these offer better velocities with the same bullet and that means better ballistics. So there's three choices within the same caliber that beat it, there's actually more than three but these are the three most common (without getting into wildcats and designer cartridges like lazzeroni, dakota, etc.) Which tells me it's not that hard to beat. If we look outside the .284 there's even more choices that beat the 7mm plain jane.

If better means efficiency that's a whole 'nuther debate, but I would start by comparing the 7-08, 7x57 and 7wsm.

Here's one area I will concede, if you equate better economically, then the plain jane 7mag is hard to beat. But that wasn't the statement. It does offer a lot of performance for the dollar and is one of the lower priced magnum cartridges that is rather easy to find on the shelf. In the firearms world, just like hotrods it's gonna cost you more to be different and you pay a big premium for incremental power increases.

So I will back up what I said, It's not that hard to ballistically beat the plain jane 7mm mag. There are many cartridges that do it. I'm not taking anything away from the 7mm rem, so don't get offended if it's your pet caliber because we all have our own favorites.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-09 AT 05:12PM (MST)[p]And after all are taken into consideration, the plain jane 7 mag is the winner. unless you want to count the 7 wby that predated it, which is the original "7 mag"... so, pretty tuff to beat the plain ol' 7 mag, aint it? I still dont see why anyone with ballistic knowledge would make such a statement. To beat the 7 rem, one has to step up case size, and/or go all the way to at least 210-240 grain 30 cal, that would be a propriety cartridge.. or, to even begin to match the ol'7 in a normal twist rate a hunting gun off the shelf would have, you would need a 338 with 250+ grainer. I'd have to run the #'s, but I aint even sure we could include the 338 win case, more than likely have to go up to the 340 wby...pretty dang tuff to beat the "plane jane 7 mag"...

Thats not to say its my favorite, but to argue the statement is a slippery slope.
 
Reddog, how do you figure the plain jane 7 is the winner I just mentioned three other 7s that beat the hell out of it. It's barely middle of the pack as far as 7 mags are concerned. Take a 160 grain 7mag it's hard to get much better than 3,000fps staying within saami specs. You can do that with a 160 grain 264 win and have better ballistics. So even if you step up in caliber and weight you can better the remy and it's not hard to do. Infact the 280ai can be loaded to nearly duplicate the remy.

I'm sure your 7mag was your first and favorite rifle, I hate to step on your toes but there are many faster, flatter (therefore ballistically better) choices and that my friend is fact.

Like I said the 7 rem mag is good but it can be ballistically outdone. I just sold my last 7mag because it's not that fast. It does make a good girl gun though.

Why did I make the statement, because someone said it's hard to beat the plain jane 7mag, when in fact it's not and it isn't a slippery slope. Maybe I don't understand your definition of tough, if it means going down to the local gunshop and picking out a 7mm,300, or 338rum, then your statement is right. The plain jane 7mag is tough to beat.
 
beating_a_dead_horse.gif


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Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-09 AT 07:32PM (MST)[p]Bucksnort, I think that horse is only mostly dead. Which is different than nearly dead.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-10-09 AT 09:10PM (MST)[p]

it all depends on what you consider "hard to beat". and as far as conventional rounds go, 7 rem is hard to beat, period.

Wrong on my favorite round, never even owned a 7 till a year ago. Its a 7 weatherby.If you have read the gun forum much, its no secret my favorite is the 30-378

Muzzle -1.5 Infinity 3200 3683 74.06 0.000 0.0 NaN 1290
100 0.0 0 3041 3327 70.39 0.096 0.4 2 1108
200 -2.3 4 2888 3001 66.85 0.197 1.7 3 949
300 -8.7 11 2741 2702 63.43 0.304 4.0 5 810
400 -19.8 19 2598 2427 60.12 0.417 7.3 7 690
500 -36.0 27 2460 2176 56.93 0.535 11.7 9 586
600 -57.9 37 2326 1947 53.84 0.661 17.3 11 496
700 -86.3 47 2198 1737 50.86 0.793 24.1 13 418
800 -121.9 58 2072 1544 47.95 0.934 32.4 15 350
900 -165.7 70 1951 1369 45.15 1.083 42.2 18 292
1000 -218.5 83 1834 1210 42.45 1.242 53.6 20 243

Any way you want to spin it, those numbers aren't easily beat. until you step up considerably in case size and/or diameter. For someone that knows ballistics, this is a stupid argument to have. if you go to a 168, 175 or 180 pushed by the 7 rem, they get even more impressive, we could do this for a week if you like, until we wind up comparing the 50 BMG and the CheyTac to the lowly 7mm :)
 
Reddog, you keep naming cartridges that beat the 7rem so why do you keep saying it's hard.

It's a simple formula, find any bullet with an equal or higher b.c. and the cartridge which will push it faster and you have ballistically beaten it(less bullet drop). The 284 doesn't have a monopoly on the highest b.c. bullet out there and the 7rem is not even in contention for being one of the faster mag cartridges.

You keep saying stupid ##### like, well you'd have to go to a heavier bullet or bigger case, duh! And that IS NOT TOO HARD! Especially with the mega-magnums around today. So you keep talking circles around yourself and explaining how to beat it. It is a given that any time you step up in diameter you must step up in weight to equal B.C., A lower B.C. bullet will always be at a disadvantage.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make with twist rates. To maximize b.c. you will always need a heavy for caliber bullet which requires a fast twist. So just do your homework on twist rates before you go shopping for a gun and match accordingly. So that's a non-factor.

One thing the 7mm Rem is known for and that is disappointing velocities through the chronograph. There are a couple vihta vhouri powders that will get a 160 7rem at 3100fps and maybe a hair more with the right gun. I've never heard or seen 3,200 through a chrono and I chrono everything. If you do get 3,200 you are way over saami specs and in the red zone. Most people quote velocities they read about without verifying them. I'd like to hear your magic load and I'm sure a lot of others would. Remington overstated velocities for this cartridge when it came out in 1962 and apparantly some people still believe them.

Maybe you aren't aware of this but saami pressures for the 7 rem are maxed at 61,000psi. The winchester mag family, ie. 264, 300 and 338win max at 64,000psi. Most other rifle mag calibers max at 65,000psi. That is one more disadvantage to the remmy, especially if you want to compare factory ammo velocities. Good luck finding factory 7mm rem loads that will top 3,000fps with a 160.

If you own a 30-378 you've already smoked the 7mm rem in spades. NOT TOO HARD! I was going to suggest trying a 338 ultra or 338-378 with a 300gn SMK. If you want something hard to beat try that one. If that doesn't work try the 6.5 ultra mag with a 160 gn and it's smaller, has a higher B.C. and smokes the remmy by 400fps. A little harder but not too difficult, call MGM order a barrel, order a set of Redding dies and now you have something which is hard to beat. That aside there's plenty of combos available over the counter which will beat the 7rem.

I do own and shoot a 50bmg extensively and ballistically that isn't hard to beat. You can get a very high b.c. bullet but the velocities aren't that great.

I would like to know why if the 7mm rem is the greatest ballistic miracle in the hunting world, why did remington see the need to come out with the 7rum? Don't say to sell more guns. People wouldn't buy it if they didn't perceive it as ballistically better. So how much harder is it to buy a 7rum over a 7rem, knowing you can get both rifle and ammo from the same source.

I'm done now. I've given you the formula how to do it, I guess only you can decide for yourself if it's hard to beat the 7rem mag. It wasn't hard for me.
 
Deadi its funny that you speak of MGM. I was talking to the guys down there the other day about putting a .264 together with a wsm case. I have a friend that shoots a 270 wsm necked down to a .257 and he really likes it. It pancaked his Mt goat at 346 this year up in the uintas. I thought that with the .264 I would get a little better b.c. and bullet weight options? What is your take? Someone posted that they are looking at a 6.5 creedmor and from what i can find its really almost 6's to the 260 rem. How would either one of those compare to a .264 wsm? One nice thing about going to a .264 is that MGM said i really would not have to trim and step down the brass I could just resize the neck from a 270 wsm.
 
Reddog said; "For someone that knows ballistics, this is a stupid argument to have."

Yes it is dog, i'm surprised you called him out on it?? I give the 7mm tons of credit but IMO, there are certainly cartridges that "beat it".

I still like the .270WSM. Presently it's limited to 150gr pills but for what the Author of this thread was talking about hunting, that's plenty. As far as wildcats being built off the WSM case, i believe a 6.5 and .257 versions would be excellent but not really any better for hunting purpose or versatile than the .270WSM is in it's own case. It's just one sweet efficient little round!

Joey
 
Dog what are you referring to? I see no f-words. My word that was deleted was schit. As in stupid schit. Anyways, this debate got out of hand and I wasn't badmouthing the 7rem So please don't take it personally.
 
wait, wait, now I'm confused(ha ha)

didn't think it would turn into this........bump

(thanks for all your replies) I'm pretty much decided on a weatherby vanguard 270 wsm or wby mag, topped with a vx3 4-14.

...although a hill country rifle looks tempting....

Mark
 
Good luck with that elmacho. Don't overlook the Howa 1500 if you have your mind set on a Vanguard, it's the same gun from the same factory with a couple minor cosmetic differences on the receiver. So if you find one at a better price over the other or with a stock you prefer, it's one and the same.

It's a good thing you have your mind already made up on the scope or we'd be back to square one in the debate.:D
 

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