AZ or NV

muleymaddness · Jan 21, 2010

In weighing out my options as we enter the application season, I'm trying to decide wether I should start building points in AZ or NV. I don't want to do both because of the up front license fee. Primarily, I'm concerned with mule deer and elk and since I'm applying, will throw my name in for sheep. Not too interested in couse or antelope. Which state do you think would be better in the long run? I know it sounds ridiculous, but if I ever draw the Arizone Kaibab tag or Strip tag, I want it to be the late season. I can't rationalize spending good money on tag fees, bonus points, and waiting years and years just to draw an early season hunt on the Kaibab and hope for weather or hope to get lucky on a nice buck (taking this expectation from what I've read).

Basically, what I'm trying to say is, if I'm spending good money on these license fees, when I draw the tag I don't want to hunt a 170 buck; I can pay a guide and do that any year.

So would you go for AZ or NV? I'm thinking NV....if not neither.

Thanks!

Jazz · Jan 21, 2010

I think you will have a long wait in Arizona for a unit like the strip. Maybe 12+ right now. In Nevada you could potentially draw a tag next year. Additionally your odds will go up more by applying through the Outfitter Draw. Seems like Nevada is the better choice to get drawn but Arizona has some great bucks. If you can pay a guide I would consider the Outfitter draw or put in for both states.

Jazz

KingCrow · Jan 21, 2010

If you're looking for a Booner then records will show that more book bucks come from AZ. In the time it takes to draw a quality Strip or Kaibab tag you could probably kill (4) 170 type deer in Nevada.

buckmster28 · Jan 21, 2010

Well I have max Arizona points for deer so I am stuck till I draw but will either quit or go for couse when after I draw. That being said I dont think you will ever draw a strip or late Kiabab tag no matter how young you are unless they change the system from how it is now. I would go for nevada as you at least have a chance every year with your odds getting better the longer you apply. More than likely it will take a long time to draw a tag there as well. Both states are a little expensive to keep building points in. But at least nevada will allow you to apply without buying a license. This could help if you build alot of points and dont wish to keep building points but still want in the drawing. Arizona does have more opprotunities for elk though.

COSA · Jan 21, 2010

I would say NV, especially for deer. Most NV units have 160-170" deer, and the amount of public land and lack of pressure really means a quality hunt. Depending on the unit, you could expect to draw every 5-10 years, better for archery. For elk, your chances of drawing in the next decade are much better in AZ compared to NV .

muleymaddness · Jan 21, 2010

Kind of what I'm thinking. Chances at an elk tag would prob be better in AZ and chances at a deer tag prob be better in NV. Someone said in a prior post that "if" AZ doesn't change their draw structure I wouldn't ever draw. That "if" is what makes me want to build the points there. Surely they will change their draw structure in the upcoming decade. If not, people like me that know they don't have a shot at the late tag will quit applying (and buying the license) in AZ all together.

As COSA said, most units in NV will produce 160-170 deer. I'm knocking that type deer, but if I'm looking at spending $150 to buy a license and get a point, I'm wanting a better buck than that. Reason is, by the time I spend the money on 3-4+ years of applying and buying licenses and then hiring a guide on top of that (since I live 25+ hours from NV with no time to scout), I'm paying too much for a 160-170 deer. If I lived there, or close by, it'd be a different story.

buckmster28 · Jan 21, 2010

They will probably change the system just to keep people applying, but I have a feeling it will just give you a glimmer of hope to keep the money coming. As for spending the $150 every year on a license, I do it to draw a hunt and go unguided. If I were going to hire a guide I would either just buy a tag and go guided or at least put in for the outfitter draw.

DonMartin · Jan 21, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-10 AT 00:19AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-22-10 AT 00:16?AM (MST)

Better stick with Nevada bud. In Az, under the current system you'll NEVER draw a late Kaibab or Strip tag! Won't happen, period.

And I doubt the system is gonna change, cause if it did, you'd have an assault on G&F like was never seen before. There are folks right now that have 21 bonus points for elk/antelope and sheep. The deer max is 13 and pool for NR isn't shrinking very much as folks are finding out just how important the bonus points are. They are taking the AZ NR Hunter Ed class to get one more point, especially those who are just one point from getting into the max bonus point pool for deer, which is the only way they'll get a late Kaibab or Strip tag.

As to folks leaving the AZ draw, hey I saw some stats and right now more NR people are coming in than are dropping out.

But I do agree that's the only way I'd ever see a change come to our current system. Remember, its no secret its about the MONEY!

You can draw early Kaibab or other early tags up north without a lot of bonus points, but you'll never get a sniff at a PREMIUM deer tag!

Don Martin
AWO

camuleycrazy · Jan 22, 2010

You need to do both now because of Elk in Az. and deer in Nv. 10 years from now you will be glad you did. Chance for a strip tag is like drawing a desert sheep tag. Could happen someday but not likely. I think they will have to change the system. If I was young I'd be betting on it with my tag money. I've drawn 13B twice. year before last with max points so I'm done but I'm still sticking with Az. for Elk and that slim chance for a desert sheep tag. Az. has been good to me 218 buck and 365 bull.Gjood luck!

DonMartin · Jan 22, 2010

You might be right about elk, but as you know you'll never get into that upper echelon of elk hunts, so no PREMIUM tag draws there, though one could argue that ANY elk tag in AZ is a good one.

I'm a lifetime AZ resident and keep pretty close tabs on G&F and I sure don't hear anything about proposed changes in our draw system, though I'd like to see them offer at least one tag on those PREMIUM hunts for NR.s. That way, if you're not into the max bonus point pool, you WOULD have a chance for one of those PREMIUM tags, so maybe you could justify sending in your money.

However, right now though, its a done deal. Plus they (G&F)are in so deep now, any changes that would negatively affect those who have been in the system say for over 10 years would absolutely cause a riot and in this litigious society, many lawsuits!

Anyway AZ G&F is always glad to take your $151.00 license money and any tags fees you'd like to send over, even though under the current system you have no chance at PREMIUM deer or elk tags!

Don Martin

azbiggame · Jan 22, 2010

Cory, Great advice from the above Folks.Az offers more elk tags for the N.R.,especially for the "Sharp Stick Crowd",where a few B.P. will get You a chance,as All units have Quality bulls.

Most will agree for a N.R. that Nevada is a "Must Apply State" for the serious Big Game hunter.More Bang for the Buck.Purchase a N.R. licence for $142.00 and another $75.00 in application fees and You are in for 3 species of sheep,deer,elk,mountain goat and antelope.Oh ya,a N.R. is in his/her on pool of Guarateed tags to N.R. only.

You're decision now,but do apply.Good Luck in 2010 ---

Bruce & SilverGrand

Jazz · Jan 23, 2010

There is no guarantee that you will kill a buck over 170" no matter where you put in! If you want the closest chance at a sure thing then just pay the $'s and buy a landowner tag. There are plenty of options for that or go to Alberta where the tags are guaranteed but you have to hunt via an outfitter. Same thing though there is no guarantee of 170+ bucks but that's always the risk. I have been to Alberta 5X and I have killed one buck over 190, two bucks in the low 180's and I killed a 170" class whitetail then I killed a mule deer at 180 in Saskatchewan. Of the other two hunts I left empty on one and killed a 170" class buck the last day for the guide who wanted the meat on one hunt.

By the way your "not paying" for any deer your paying for the opportunity to hunt and "maybe" kill a better buck. Sometimes a little luck helps just as is the case for drawing the tag.

muledeerhunter · Jan 23, 2010

there are big deer in unit 41 44 42 in AZ.and those units are easy to get drawn. the strip tag is the hardest tag to put in for but if you get draw you can get a once in a lifetime mule deer.Every year there are several 200+ deer taken out of ther unlike navada. you are better off putting in for archery for unit 12a 12b in AZ.Its the next best unit to hunt huge mule deer and archery 12a 12b is highly likeable to get get drawn.

DonMartin · Jan 23, 2010

Muledeerhunter:

Just a clarification.

Even IF you draw a Strip tag, there is no guarantee that you'll get a boomer.

Look at the hunt stats. It plainly shows that the hunt success ranges from 50 to 75% hunt success, so obviously from half to one quarter of the tag holders, for what ever reason, GO HOME WITH A TAG IN THEIR POCKET!

Being able to assist hunters there almost every year, I get to see it all.

I'll bet that out of the 55 tags issued last year, there were probably 10-12 bucks taken that are way above average anywhere else in AZ.

Another 10-12 are nice bucks, but they are of the size and quality that can be found in other northern Arizona units, such as the Kaibab and units 13A and in some years, 12B (late).

Believe it or not there are a few bucks bucks ranging from SPIKES, FORKIES and small three or four points taken each year to round out the harvest.

Hey the Strip (Unit 13B)is 1 1/2 MILLION acres with a ESTIMATED deer population of 2,500 to 3,500 animals.

There is a lot of areas up there that have NO DEER in it!

What I'm saying is folks who have never been there should understand that there isn't a giant buck behind every juniper or Ponderosa (depends where you are at)up there.

It is a tough hunt, and the 10 days go unbelievably fast.

I bet if you check with the other guys who regularly guide up there, you'll probably hear the same thing.

Don Martin
AWO