Sense finally..Option 4

M

MEEW

Guest
Just heard of and "option 4" coming from SFW. Keep the units at five. Going to 3 point or better. Manage for 18 to 100. Coyote vouchers go to 50$ a piece. Hunter permits and predator permits are given on the actual total count on deer. Example if we are manageing for 450,000 deer in the state, and they only count 225,000 then the hunters afield are cut in half say to maybe 47,000 total hunters. Also the ammount of predator tags will go up (lions and Bears) untill the numbers coincide...are you with me? More predator (coyote) control on forest land (helicopter) and no time limit on checking traps. Basically saying that we need to address to total # of deer first and that all the factors (hunters, predators) need to be addressed untill the TOTAL HEARD #s are up. Once we have a managable base heard then we can manage better (hopefully) Oh and the cut tags will be all across the board from rifle hunters to muzzy to archery. Seems better than the previous options to me, what do you think, and this is just what I remember from the conversation if anyone else can fill in what I missed or screwed up feel free.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-10 AT 01:00PM (MST)[p] Better, but still wrong. I do like to see that THE MAIN FACTORS are getting attention instead of just cutting BUCK HUNTER NUMBERS.

Ya can't manage the state as Limited Entry and provide a general season hunt. I understand that SFW is looking to save bucks and make older bucks at that, but Utah's General Season Hunters want to hunt. Period. They want opportunity. If SFW wants to add or create additional LE Units thats up to them to run that proposal through the system. Why would we want to have straight tag reductions when we have some units in the state that can sustain a hunt?? In some cases units are at carrying capacity and need the harvests. The Current plan addresses these issues.

Look if a subunit in one of the 5 regions is struggling to the point that it's below 10 or 12 bucks to doe's under the current plan it goes LE Automatically. No debate from opportunists it just goes LE.

Address the main issues and all of this other crap will take care of itself.

By the way SERIOUS PROPS to the SFW Board for making this attempt at compromise. Some of us appreciate it.





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Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
The whole state 3 point or better? Seriously? Sounds a lot like they want to make everyone a trophy hunter. This part of their suggestion is a joke. I'm o.k. with the predator control and reducing tags where needed, as long as the tags get restored when the unit gets back to the objective.
 
i hate 3 point or better, all this does is puts pressure on all the bigger bucks, it is okay that some like to shoot 2 points, then those of us that hunt for bigger bucks don't have to worry about everyone hunting after a buck you have been after. You can't put pressure on big bucks alone, it needs to be even. Again it is not a LE unit, these are General Season hunts. let people hunt the way they like.

Predator control is a huge factor and needs to be addressed. But do not make the General seasons LE units. I would say keep the hunts the way they are and stick with a 5 day mule deer hunt for everyone, 5 day hunts help, but having any 9 day hunt for youth did not help.
 
That's the best option I've herd of so far. I doubt it will get passed though due to the thought they might have to cut tags and lose those all mighty precious dollars. We all know it's all about the $$$!
 
Need to add Bowhunters 14 day max season!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and no more of this statewide stuff and I am not trying to argue southern vs. northern I just know that if they go to units on other hunts it is pointless to turn archers loose on the whole state. Part of the deer problem is if you can't control how many areas are hunting one area you don't know how many deer are being killed and wounded in that area.we are using fine tuned weapons not sling slots during that season. Heck give me two weekends and I will kill the deer I want or eat my tag like every other hunter with muzz or rifle.
 
>i hate 3 point or better,
> all this does is
>puts pressure on all the
>bigger bucks, it is okay
>that some like to shoot
>2 points, then those of
>us that hunt for bigger
>bucks don't have to worry
>about everyone hunting after a
>buck you have been after.
>
>Predator control is a huge factor
>and needs to be addressed.


+1 on that part of your post. Point restrictions don't work for deer. The DWR has done it before. All it did was mess up those areas.
 
The claim was made that 70-80% of all deer killed this year were spikes and 2 points. There for in one year there is still gonna be a ton of young (2 year old bucks) therefore the pressure is not on just mature bucks. It also give the yearlings a education year and therefore more should survive. Also if the base number is not up to par, there will be tag cuts, but if an area can sustain and is up to 18 to 100 it may not get the cuts...just the areas that need it. If we want more deer period, we have to give a bit...and ofcourse if they cut tags then the available tags are gonna be a bit more expensive to make up the difference....35$ right now is realitively cheap I don't think even if it doubled anyone is gonna go belly up....come on we have to think step by step, and I think this is a step in the right direction. A three point aint much different than a 2 point I think the meat hunters are gonna survive and the trophy guys are still gonna have SOME trophies. Ya'll gotta give a little somewhere don't be so damn selfish
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-10 AT 09:02PM (MST)[p]I like everything but the 3 point or better idea, it is not enforceable, and a lot of animals will get abandoned. Also not every hunter wants a big buck, they are just looking for opportunity. Who is going to fund the $50 per coyote, I bet the state won't, and I doubt SFW will fork it up. I still don't think the state will even buy into this plan.
 
Meew, the division has stated it others have, lets say it again, IT IS NOT THE BUCKS THAT MAKE THE DEER HERD, IT IS THE DOES AND FAWNS......the doe and fawn numbers are down as much as the buck numbers are, if you have only 3000 deer on your unit and you raise the bucks from 15 per 100 does to 18 per hundred does, you have increased the buck numbers from 450 bucks to 540 bucks on that unit, but the number deer are not increasing due to predator, doe hunts, vehicle, we need to increase the herd not the bucks.
 
This option can't be correct. Point restrictions on deer hunts do not work. It has been tried before numerous times and it doesn't work. How many times we going to try this before we give up. You end up killing all the older bucks, if they even make it there. Then you end up with spikes and forkhorns doing all the breeding. Genetics are shot to hell. There is a huge enforcement issue and numerous bucks will be left on the mountain.

People keep whinning all the fish and game care about is money so they won't cut tags. Two of the real options have a reduction in tags and an increase in cost to compensate for the loss of money. If this option is serious about a $50 bounty on coyotes, who is going to pay for it. Fish and game can't pay that out and not increase the cost of everything, A LOT. It's crazy. Not to mention all the crap people will to do take advantage of this. Counties have tried paying out for coyotes and it doesn't work. People just need to get out and shot coyotes. It is hunting.

If we all want the fish and game to manage deer the way it needs to be done to get more big bucks they need to go to unit hunts. I hate it myself but that is the best way to micro manage for more bucks.

It doesn't matter what is done with the number of permits or number of units. Until the total number of deer is increased we will always have a problem. None of the option deals with that.
 
Did you guys miss half the post? Let me state it again....Up the bounty from 20 to 50 $ a coyote....no trap laws as far as checking your traps (time period let them rot in your trap if you want), increasing aerial gunning money, and increasing bear and lion tags...what part of this does not increase the BASE HEARD NUMBERS...it is not all about more bucks, in fact it really has nothing to do with more bucks except with MORE DEER, there is a positive and that is MORE bucks, it really isn't that difficult to understand. Those guys that are out of work could make a decent living killing yotes if they want, to me it seems pretty good.
 
Point restrictions do work...Garth Carter did one on the delores triangle area and it worked.. yes there are down sides..is anything ever PERFECT? Enforcement needs to come from hunters themselves...if you see it turn it in or do u not care...Sure there is gonna be stupid tards that can't count... there are stupid poachers that don't care also... but all in all we need more deer and this seems a step in the right direction. 4 point or better would be too much, but a three point is just a 1 year educated yearling...not too much to ask for
 
I want to hear more about Garth Carters point restriction and what the results were. Everything I have ever read or heard about point restrictions said that they didn't work. I don't favor a point restriction. However, if we had one, I would want to make sure that youth could shoot any buck. That gives them more opportunity, and makes sure the 5 yr old 26" 2 point isn't bulletproof left doing all the breeding year after year.

What about a general season 2 point or less hunt? Kind of like a spike elk hunt. Idaho does it in the Owyhees.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.
 
MEEW you are wasting your time the problem is there are alot of people that have no common sense they cant see anything but one side and for you idiots that think point restictions dont work you are stupid colorado did three point or bigger on bucks along time ago for one year and they have ten times the deer utah ever dreamed of and they do it on elk and have more elk than any other state so pull your heads out and this option is not perfect but you will never have one that is but this by far makes more sense all the way around we are hunters lets give a little and sacrifice as a group to get the numbers up and help so we always have something to hunt shorter seasons dont work when your killing all you future trophy bucks.sorry if i offended anyone but common guys lets work together and we can save this deer herd the DWR dont care enough to you should.
 
Another plan.
Keep tags at 97000. Raise the price to $50. With the extra 1 million build some fences, transplant the deer out of bountiful...quit listening to the, it does not work b.s. Use the money to hire government trappers and eliminate coyotes and bears....or reduce them dramatically. Cougars also.

Make half the state 4 point or better, it does work. The other half of the state leave alone...let families go hunt and recruit new hunters.

Close roads and trails during hunting season...use the thousands of dedicated hunters to get it done, instead of making up junk to do.

If you don't kill a deer you can turn in the tag for a point or a kiss from bobcat or predator.

Let us use the deer tag for a bear or mt lion.

Now there is some change that will make a long term difference not just add 3 bucks here and there.
 
I like what Bowhunt says. But I also agree with other posts. Let 18 and under shoot any buck, then do the 3 or 4 point or better for everyone else. Do our part and turn people in. Kill as many yotes with the extra $ for the small tag $ increase, possibly trade tags in for bear/lion tags.

Alot of good ideas here. My previous vote was for option 1. But I do like # 4 with tweeks.

I am a dedicated hunter, but mostly bowhunt. I have only killed 1 deer in 8 years. I have had plenty of opportunity for both big and small. I wont shoot small, but had made several mistakes on stocks/shots on big bucks. I have muzzy hunted 1 time and rifle 2 times in the last 9 years. I believe the statewide archery thing is just fine. Just my opinion.

Utah used to have lots of deer with lots of hunter with lots of killing and lots of bucks and big bucks. I personlly think the only changes since then and now are:
-more roads
-more preditors
-less habitat in some areas
-growing juniper/cedar groves/hills/valleys
-less sage brush/dying sage brush
-more cattle/sheep on forest land

This is just a few and just my opinion, so no need to bash here. Thanks, and lets ALL WORK TOGETHER and WE ALL NEED TO GIVE A LITTLE to make any option work.
 
I am curious how antler restriction "ruined" the units it was on in the past? I love the plan and I do like some of the tweaks suggested. As far as illegal harvest I think that is a BS excuse to shy away from antler restriction. We are fine with it on elk! We would be fine on it with deer. As far as big two points doing the breeding, the doe has more to do with the antler gene than the buck. That has been proven. The DWR did not like the idea years ago and flat out lied in some cases to turn sportsmen against it...FACT!!!!!



There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
Littlebuck, you are the problem. 60, yep 60 cats will kill more deer than 16,000 bowhunters in a year. Dip#$%ts like you want to keep dividing hunters are exactly the problem,







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Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
A couple of people have mentioned that the bigger bucks will all get shot. I don't know about the rest of you but I personally find it challenging enough to harvest a big mature mule deer with a rifle. Those bucks have developed ghost like skills that keep them alive longer than the smaller bucks. as far as more pressure on the bigger bucks....maybe, if you can find their hide outs! The older the buck, the more advantage they have over us hunters. Personally, I like to see bigger bucks in the field, 3 point or better sounds like a good option, cutting tags does not. You are already cutting opportunity by increasing to a 3 point or better rule so less deer will get harvested period! It gives the hunter who wants to go out and hunt, his/her opportunity to do so. They get to see more wildlife in the field and still enjoy that time of year instead of having to wait 3-5 years to hunt. I do like the predator suggestion also.
 
if it goes 3 point or better are they going to allow the 2 point and spikes to be counted for the 18/100. I hope not, if you are not going to be able to hunt them then they shouldn't be counted.
 
i like the 3pt idea, why does everyone think the deer are gonna get shot and abandoned? hello look at the freakin spike elk hunt!!!! i'm sure people are gonna accidentally shoot 2 pts but its not gonna be deer laying everywhere dead. get real like you cant tell a 2pt is a 2 pt? if it is 3 pt or better eventually many of those 2 pts will turn into 3 pts and bigger raising quality animals, making more mature bucks if they get a chance to live and learn and get smart,theere will be more and more great bucks out there.
how freakin hard is it to kill a 2 pt anyway?? anyone can. even a meat hunter is not gonna pass up on a good buck to shoot a 2pt reguardless of what anyone says.

i've never met anyone even ones that say they only meat hunt not wanna shoot a good buck.(get antlerless tag on over objective units if you only want meat prob solved) people say they only hunt meat cause they know they cant kill anything but a 2pt cause they are lazy road hunters.

let the deer grow up and get smarter make it a funner hunt in the long run
 
I don't think anyone is against the youth hunting and killing, but as stated 70-80% of bucks killed were spikes and 2 points. You don't need to let the youth kill these bucks. Sure the first year might be a really tough hunt for EVERYONE, but after just one year it really won't be much different except SOME of those will be slightly educated, but then the next year there are even more and the next and the next and the next....do you see where this goes. They did also say that all anterless hunts (depredation) will be a thing of the past PERIOD!! And yes the discussed Transplanting and yes we are getting a bag pulled over our heads...Again sure maybe SOME don't survive but again it has been done in the past and works...there WILL be SOME that die, but remember nothing is perfect, but some things are better than nothing at all or we can still let the DWR kill ALL of them........GIVE A LITTLE TO GAIN ALOT MORE........The plan did address more transplanting and not wasting our base resource
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 11:55?AM (MST)

Comparing Colorado to Utah is as idiotic as shooting all the deer in Bountiful. If Colorado's plan of 3 point or better worked so well why did they only do it for one year? There is a thing called habitat, Colorado has quite a bit more sustainable habitat than Utah. Predators and home building is the problem. Late cow and doe hunts has a hand in the problem as well, killing does and cows while bucks are trying to breed, as well as the early bird shed hunters, it puts too much pressure on the bucks, it takes stored energy to survive the winter and every time someone causes a deer to run it wastes that much more energy. If people would lay off the deer from November to March it would help. Try some punctuation next time, trying to read about how stupid I am gave me a headache.
 
why do you think the bookcliffs has so many 2x4's big 2x2's and such?

Point restriction!!! yes they had 3 point or better on that unit and it all but about killed the genetics out there. I believe the same thing is going on out there with the LE unit.

You force a hunter to kill the best bucks pleasing to the horn hunters and leave the crap bucks to do all the breading every year.

The best way to manage for quality, quantity and ease of enforcement IS BUCK TO DOE RATIO'S / BULL TO COW RATIOS.
pick a number and stick to it. Screw the inch crowd. If they want a big buck let them hunt for one. That is what I do and "I'm an inch guy!!!"



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The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
we all want to sit and cry they're going to shorten the hunt, give out less tags, and now we can't shoot little bucks so everyone is going to chase our big deer around. i'm almost ashamed that its gotten this bad, everyone wants to blame the state and say they're only worried about the money they gain from tag sales, but no one is willing to give up a few years of hunting deer to regain a descent deer herd. everyone, even people who shoot two points, is going to kill a big buck if they get the chance just like it has always been. if you're willing to work for it then your chances of getting the big boy are still better, and lets face it thats just how it is general season hunting. i say do whatever we have to do to have a descent hunt around this place, even if it means not all of us get to hunt next year or you can't shoot a little buck.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 04:37PM (MST)[p]The Book Cliffs is a perfect example of why point restrictions should NOT be implemented. Before they made them 3-point or better, there were plenty of deer. It only took a few years of 3-point or better and there were mature less-than-4x4 bucks doing all the breeding, spreading their inferior genetics. The DWR figured out that it was a bad idea, opened it up, and everyone & their dogs killed every buck out there. That's why they had to shut it down before they made it a limited entry. Now, yearrrs after the 3-point or better rule, go out there & you'll still see plenty of mature less-than-4x4 bucks all over. People still won't shoot them because they're all trophy hunting. They need to have a management hunt out there BIG TIME!
Another thought, 100 people are hunting an area and if allowed, 90 of those would be happy to shoot 2 points and go home. With point restrictions, all 100 are forced to trophy hunt until they kill every mature buck out there. Hmm... That makes the 10 who wanted to trophy hunt much less successful.
POINT RESTRICTIONS DON'T WORK ON DEER!
 
How the hell do you shoot out genetics with point restrictions? You are letting bigger mature bucks still roam the same as before, and the yearlings are gettin to live and extra year I don't get it....No one said you can't shoot a 4x2 or even a 20x2 swbuckmaster splain it to me if I am missing something with this. It really ain't much different than now just a FEW more educated deer. Is there much difference in shooting a spike or 2 point, versus a three point, a bit more meat there is all I can see.
 
Meew, I can't figure out how they think the genetics will be shot out either. The does make up half the genetics and we are not shooting them. That big 4 point you might see was once a 2 point and he still has the same genitics. All the info I have looked at says that a 3 point mule deer has inferior genetics. You can shoot those!
 
Lets say your hunting a 3 point or better unit. You come upon 2 bucks, one 3 point and one 4 point, which one do you shoot? Most of us would shoot the 4 point, leaving the 3 point to breed the does. Multiply this situation and what is left? A lot of 3 points. Sure some of them will be shot out of the herd but given the chance most guys will shoot 4 points. As far as inferior genetics go, some yearlings may be 3 points, does this make them inferior?
 
I don't see why the 2 point shooters think its fair that they over a 10 year period go 9/10 on 2's and spike and the Big buck hunters go 1/10. Meat Hunter take more than there fair share of deer. This fsct is why they don't like 3 point or better because that might reduce there success.

Two options for 3 point or better.

1. If you shoot a buck thats to small then you submit a $50 fee. This fee money would be used for predator control and habitat. For an extra $50 your could get your small buck if you still want to shoot it or if you accidently shoot a small one.

2. Make half the state 3 point or better leave the other half alone. That why you could choose a region based on the rules you want.
 
well they only had to do it one year to get there buck numbers up. and its not about the buck. its the heard numbers that need to be up. and yes all the house building and preadators do have a effect on that to as well as doe hunts. but shooting all the spikes and 2 points dont help them bucks are possible the genetics of big buck that can have a good impact on the future of our herd.and by the way when did bucks start breeding cows.any way sorry about your headache but if you pull your head out you can get more oxygen and you should not have headache any more.
 
why are people so stupid if a three point breeds a doe she is not only going to produce a three point its in the genetics if the tree points dad was a 4 point that buck can still become a 4 point you guys get your heads out the lack of oxygen make you lose brain cells
 
are you trying to say a 3 pt wont ever get bigger? i say bs on that.
where is the proof to that? never heard that before?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 07:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 07:30?PM (MST)

Where did I say bucks bred cows? I said killing cows during late hunts put pressure on bucks. Meaning that people in the winter range, shared by deer and elk, trying to kill a cow elk may cause undue stress on a mule deer buck. The buck needs all the energy he has to breed and get through the winter. A buck has the genetics it's ever going to have when its born, no matter if it lives to be 1 or 20. Seriously though if you choose to argue your points, and try to appear intelligent, learn how to write. Huked on fonics can wurk fur yoo!
 
What states and what areas still do antler restrictions on deer? Why is Garth's idea still not used on the Delores Triangle? Antler restrictions were used several times in Utah and it has not made a lasting affect. The Henry's used to be 4-point or better then the deer herd crashed. The Monroe was 3-point or better and it is still doing crappy. If antler restrictions are the magic bullet then everybody would be doing it.

What you end up with is a lot of 3-4 points (raghorn bucks)the year after the restriction is placed, then the next year all those get shot. You don't end up with any bigger bucks. Look at Colorado's areas with point restrictions on elk. A lot of spikes and raghorns and no more big elk than other areas.

People wonder about bucks left on the mountain to rot. Ask the fish cops what happened in the past. It is a lot easier to see a spike elk than it is a forkhorn. Shoot and ask questions later is what will happen.

Spike elk antler restrictions had a lot of research to back them up and it was done to improve the health and productivity of the elk herd and not to increase the number of bigger bulls. That is a completely different issue.

Deer antler restrictions do nothing to increase the number of deer in a herd. That is not why Colorado has more mule deer as was stated.

Come on, drop the antler restriction ideas. I sure hope the Wildlife Board will see through this idea.
 
no thats what muleymonster seems to think i know that a 3 point has a chance at getting bigger.
 
Hmmm..... The "tards" have been counting tines on Spike Bulls and reading the little black marks and number's on tape measures while fishing on the "Berry" for over 20 years now! I think they can handle counting tines on mule deer.

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.

Thomas Jefferson
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10 AT 09:00PM (MST)[p]I've seen a lot of incompetence on a lot of hunting forums, but you take the cake. It's obvious the education system has failed you. Where did I ever say a three point wont get bigger? Do you have any reading comprehension skills at all? Just because a buck is a 3 point at one point in its life doesn't mean it will always be a three point, but a mature 3 point has a pretty good chance of staying that way. In an area where the 3 point is the predominant gene, because over the years most of the 4 points have been shot out, there is a good chance most of the bucks and does will carry that gene. So your theory of the does providing the 4 point gene are out the door.
 
It seems to me that point restrictions may hurt a LE unit but on a general unit MOST hunters are shootin the first thing that has antlers. The ones that aren't are the trophy guys, basically exactly what you have now. Point restrictions set up this way on a general unit are doing nothing more that educating yearlings and letting them survive one more year and hopefully a few more will get away than what we have getting away NOW. On a LE unit you are gonna be selective, that is why it is LE, on general you have guys that are gonna kill reguard less...if it has antlers bang, now they just have to be able to count to 3.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-10 AT 06:25AM (MST)[p]No one is forcing you to shoot a big buck once every ten years. A meat hunter takes more than their fair share of deer? What is a persons "fair share" of deer? As long as they take one deer per tag I think they take what is fair. A tag for a 2 point costs the same as a tag for a 4 point. Maybe the fee for a big buck should be more, since they are the ones that should be doing most the breeding, and are more coveted. Which half of the state would be 3 point or better? How would this be decided? I think predators and urban sprawl are the biggest factors, as well as late hunts and 4 wheeler trails. Keeping money generated by the hunting industry (tag sales, sales tax on firearms and ammo, etc.)exclusive to the management of wildlife instead of adding it to the general fund would help.
 
I will ask this again, will the DWR beable to count the 2 points and spikes as part of the 18/100. If they are able too then you are giving us less bucks to hunt, because probably 10/100 will be the 2 points and spikes and the remaining 8/100 will be huntable. So I would through in that the 2 points and spikes are not included in the count. Also is the 3 point or better going to be set in stone or is it a goal to go back to regular hunting once our deer herds are up?
 
its usless to talk to you tard you say one thing then dont even remember saying it. look back through your posts u idiot. and i never said anything about a doe genes you moron this is why the deer herds will never amount to anything cause idiotslike you want to fight about everything instead of working with others and trying to solve the problem it all about me additude from people like you are why this country is so screwed up and my punctuation has nothing to do with anything you fing tard and you of all people are one to talk about hooked on phonics not huked on phonics tard.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-08-10 AT 09:55PM (MST)[p]Remember back to your first post on this topic. You said "the problem is there are alot of people that have no common sense" and "you idiots " and "you are stupid ". And now write this, "idiotslike you want to fight about everything instead of working with others and trying to solve the problem ". I thought it was pretty ironic that this was coming from a writer that cant even piece together a simple paragraph. You lost all credibility right out of the gate. My bad on the doe carrying the 4 point gene, it was someone else that said that, but if a 4 point gene is shot out of a herd, its pretty unlikely the fawns dad will be carrying it. The word "huked" was joke, the funny part is you thought I meant it. As far as you punctuation having nothing to do with anything, questioning it sure got under your skin. Did someone say "talking to a wall"? Wow!
 
I apologize for my hijacking of your thread. I'm done. I would like to know if the spikes and two points would be counted as well.
 
the spikes and two points are counted they are bucks!

there is no difference in 18 bucks and 15 bucks to 100 does. IF you want to see more you will have to slash the hell out of the tags. the next step is 20-25 bucks like the bookcliffs. if you want to see that many bucks you will only have about 3000 deer permits state wide.

when is it going to be enough tag cuts to satisfy the inch crowd???? All I hear is the bookcliffs sucks anyways.


I say all you guys that want big horns put in for the Henry mtns like me and quit complaining...and do some more scouting.

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The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
Seems to me that all 4 options have many ups and downs. Utah needs to follow in the footsteps of the states that are getting it right. Such as Nevada and Colorado. Who ever said you cant compare Utah to Colorado is wrong. Take a drive through Utah and the terrain from top to bottom is prime mule deer habitat.(except the salt flats of course) Nevada and Colorado have smaller hunting units and manage each herd. Multiple rifle seasons to spread hunters out. Not a five day rat race. Nevada had a state wide archery hunt and got rid of it. I live in the southern region and I dont see how the DWR can manage deer in Richfield and Kanab on the same hunt. Completely different herds. Smaller units is the key. Just my 2 cents :)
 
I totally agree Josh, that is why they say they only need to cut 7,000 tags if we do option 1 and 13,000 tags if we do option 2. How dumb do they think we are, no matter if you go by unit or region it still incompasses the whole state yet one takes more tags than the other, reason is that smaller units will force them to make a more detailed account. My guess is that it will be much more than 13,000 to ever do any good.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-07-10
>AT 09:00?PM (MST)
>
>I've seen a lot of incompetence
>on a lot of hunting
>forums, but you take the
>cake. It's obvious the education
>system has failed you. Where
>did I ever say a
>three point wont get bigger?
>Do you have any reading
>comprehension skills at all? Just
>because a buck is a
>3 point at one point
>in its life doesn't mean
>it will always be a
>three point, but a mature
>3 point has a pretty
>good chance of staying that
>way. In an area where
>the 3 point is the
>predominant gene, because over the
>years most of the 4
>points have been shot out,
>there is a good chance
>most of the bucks and
>does will carry that gene.
>So your theory of the
>does providing the 4 point
>gene are out the door.
>

Just a guess here, but I dont think ALL the 4 points will be shot, why would anyone think that. If a general unit went to 3 point or better, I would bet a thousand dollars more 3 points would be killed than 4 points, no matter if three points can grow bigger or not.

In my opinion, a good thing about the 29 subunits, would be to have all these different opinions and try them out different units. Then people can be happy and put in for the subunit with their preferences. If some unit were 3 point or better, I bet they would be the harder ones to draw. What do you think?
 
I don't know what option if any the board will choose, but for sure something drastic really needs to be done, ----------but no one really wants to pay the price to do it.

If they keep the 5 regions, make one of them an archery only region, open from Aug 20th to Nov. 15th. Or if they break the state up in to more regions, make a quarter of these regions archery only and open them early and leave them open until Nov. 15. Archers can only hunt in that region or those units and would not be allowed to hunt in the other regions/units.

Do away with the dedicated hunter program, but give those that do so many hours per year a preference point towards the rifle hunt.

In addition to that cut the rifle tags at least 1/3, but leave the archery regions/units unlimited. Then if a guy didn't draw a rifle tag, he could still hunt the long archery hunt, as those regions/units would be unlimited to residents.

I know you rifle guys will laugh at such an idea, but if they would do that on a five year plan, by the end of the third year many of you rifle guys would laying down your rifles and picking up a bow to get a chance at all the big bucks and participate in the long seasons. And that is exactly what would happen.

I could not agree more, that we need to kill lots of coyotes and more lion and more bear if we want to grow the overall deer herd.

Have a good one. BB
 
>I've seen a lot of incompetence
>on a lot of hunting
>forums, but you take the
>cake. It's obvious the education
>system has failed you. Where
>did I ever say a
>three point wont get bigger?
>Do you have any reading
>comprehension skills at all? Just
>because a buck is a
>3 point at one point
>in its life doesn't mean
>it will always be a
>three point, but a mature
>3 point has a pretty
>good chance of staying that
>way. In an area where
>the 3 point is the
>predominant gene, because over the
>years most of the 4
>points have been shot out,
>there is a good chance
>most of the bucks and
>does will carry that gene.
>So your theory of the
>does providing the 4 point
>gene are out the door.
>

Just a guess here, but I dont think ALL the 4 points will be shot, why would anyone think that. If a general unit went to 3 point or better, I would bet a thousand dollars more 3 points would be killed than 4 points, no matter if three points can grow bigger or not.

In my opinion, a good thing about the 29 subunits, would be to have all these different opinions and try them out different units. Then people can be happy and put in for the subunit with their preferences. If some unit were 3 point or better, I bet they would be the harder ones to draw. What do you think?
 
buglinbilly.every post you make shows how greedy of a bowhunter youare everybody else should give but you. ill tell you right now. bowhunters will have to give .the days of hunting the whole state and late hunts . are done. and i am one of those bowhunters........
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-10 AT 06:12PM (MST)[p]Of course not all the 4 points would be shot out. But overall most of the good genetics, over time, would or could be culled. The Book Cliffs is a prime example.
 
elkun your a puts! There is nothing wrong with what BB said.

whats wrong with giving a few areas only to bow hunters and then keeping the bowhunters out of the rifle areas.

You know full well the areas that are managed for archery only are 1000 times better units then where you allow the punkn patch hunters.


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-09-10 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]Nothing wrong with archery only units.
 

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