Mule Deer Forum

fishon

Very Active Member
Messages
1,052
Mule Deer Hunters

Tuesday Night at Jordan Commons will be a Kfan/Jazz sponsored public forum on Utah's Mule Deer Herds and situation.

This is not a rac meeting and will have no rac members or wildlife board members participating. They may or may not be in the audience.

SFW,MDF,DWR have all committed to participate in this 1st of many public forums for Utah's wildlife.

This is not a DWR sanctioned or ran meeting. The doors will open at 5 pm and the DWR presentation will begin and 5:30. Kfan's radio show "Inside The Outdoors" will be live from 6-8 pm on 1320 kfan or www.1320kfan.com the meeting will be open until 9 pm.

We all know the condition of Utah's deer herds and this is a way to voice your thoughts, ideas, concerns and hope for Utah's Mule deer future.

Below is a link you can pre register. There is no cost but seating is limited.

I look forward to meeting you all their and sharing ideas for Utah's most popular family activity.

Let me know if you have any questions


http://www.1320kfan.com/index.php/shows/inside_the_outdoors

Tony Abbott
www.myfreehunts.com
UTAH HAS TOO MANY LAND CARP!
 
Someone needs to address and get them to give good accurate deer counts, the method they are using is not working. The deer numbers are far from reality.

Cant make the 6 hour drive or I would be there.
 
Also bring to light that yes there has been millions of dollars spent on habitat and road fencing, but not very much on predator control, and predators have not even been reduced in numbers yet, so we are trying to focus on deer then lets impact all areas not just the habitat and road fencing, but the lions, bear, and coyote. If we can get even 1 million dollars a year or more to do predator control then that is a start in one direction as well.
 
A recent study. 100 deer were collared to find out mortality rates and how the deer died.
30 out of 100 deer were killed by cars. Dr. Terry Messmer did the research. I believe the research was done in northern UT. (Logan area) Maybe someone could find out.

Then factor in mortality rates from coyotes, especially fawns.

Then factor in losses from Cougars. Not only from kills but constant harrassment from cougars.

Weather related deer loss,droughts and winter kill, especially in Northern and central UT. Every 5 years or so we seem to have significant loss in numbers. Especially older bucks and fawns. This winter maybe very hard on deer if it keeps going.

I don't mind having 20+ bucks per 100 does in some areas.

As mentioned before. Going from 15 to 18 bucks per 100 does will have minimal effects on quality, and very little help in the over all deer herd.

Cutting license numbers even by 25% in many areas,especially in areas that have winter kill losses (IE. Northen Utah),will have little effect on over all deer numbers.

Loss of winter range and quality, elk numbers, human harrassment,weather, and the big 3 C's, cougars, coyotes, and cars, have too much effect on the over all deer herd.

I'm a life time license holder. I haven't even hunted deer in Utah the past 10 yrs.

We can't change the weather.
We can't change very much car deer mortality. People could slow down.

The ave age of cougars killed is just 2 1/2 yrs old in UT. That tells us that, there are not a lot of older cats. Populations are not high in most areas. Maybe high in SOME areas for how many deer we have. I like to chase cats as well.

Too bad we can't poison coyotes, like we used to. Hint Hint

I can't make it to the meeting. Hopefully someone can consider these factors. Hopefully we can make some improvements.

I have seen at least 5 big bucks in Northern Utah. 175 plus. I don't know if they will survive the winter. Time will tell.

I wish I had more answers.

Good luck to those who are trying to make a difference.
 
Is this the same meeting thats at the theaters?


http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p248/nv_hunter/nevadaanimatedhelmetwd2.gif[/IMG]
 
Will this be recorded in it's entirety for a future podcast somewhere? How much of the actual proceedings will be broadcast on the radio show vs commentary?
 
I see nothing wrong with this meeting going on. I'm a member of the Central RAC and I did my best to ask question of Anis that would help me understand their thinking. I know that the deer management options won't increase deer herd sizes-- just buck numbers. The part of the discussion I had with Anis at the RAC meeting that continues to make me wonder about the direction of mule deer management is, when I ask Anis about the herd numbers and the population objectives and whether he believed we are at carrying capacity, he said- We are at carrying capacity! I then ask him about the southern part of the state and he said- The problem in southern Utah isn't winter range, its summer range capacity.
Now, if he is convinced that we are at carrying capacity, the ONLY thing we can do is to manage buck numbers and hunter numbers. My question is then-- do they consider carrying capacity as only the availability of browse-- or is predator kill, road kill,disease etc that is considered in the equation that results in the true Carrying Capacity of any given unit.
If we truly are at carrying capacity, then most of you are spitting in the wind, when you make suggestions that you think would make the herds bigger and healthier. I personally do not believe we are at carrying capacity on most units. I believe that there are some practices that are in place now that didn't happen 30 years ago--.
A couple of examples-- We start hunting deer in August and it doesn't end until November. We allow elk hunting (on the same winter ranges that the deer have to utilize) through the end of January. I think that we allow too much pressure and too long into the winter season. The deer may not being hunted in Daecember or January but they don't know that, they only know that there is a predator shooting and walking into their habitat and they go into predator avoidance mode, which causes them to burn precious fat reserves and puts them in a less favorable position to survive what mother nature has in store for them.
I will be listening to the KFAN discussion and I would hope someone there will get a definitive answer from the Division as to whether their stance is that we are at carrying capacity now. Until we know the anwer to that, the discussion of option 1 or option 2 or any option at all, doesn't much matter.
 
One of the best posts I''ve seen Nebo,,,,+1

4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
I to asked Anis about deer numbers and the answer he gave us at the southern rac was that their still is 300,000 deer in the state and that even though sportsman cannot find them he claims they are out their somewhere. It is time to call them on this and let them know there are not the numbers they claim and if we need to shut the state down for a couple years while they figure this out, then that is what the sportsmen will do.
 
"Then factor in losses from Cougars. Not only from kills but constant harrassment from cougars."

Seriously, all that name calling can emotionally devastate a deer to the point of suicide!!


Its lonely at the top.... just the way I like it.
 
Hey Hunter100, Back in the mid 90's my friend ear tagged and radio collared a bunch of deer on Camp Williams and Kennecote in Salt Lake county, in 2 years almost all of them were killed by cars.
 
Sure wished I had a way of getting an exact count/list on how many deer are killed in Utah each year by Bears?

Then I'd hand it to cantseeadamnthing & maybe then he could compare the Bear Kills to serious problems with the Utah Deer Herd!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
with all the deer being killed by cars. maybe road hunting is not so bad after all!! just kiddin.. keep after them
 
Since bess cant seem to read here is straight from the division website, and in the bear management plan.

Black bear predation on young deer, moose (Alecs alecs), caribou (Rangifer tarandus),
and elk (Cervus elaphus) has been reported in several studies (Kolenosky and Strathearn
1987, Franzmann et al. 1980). Smith (1983) radio-collared 54 newborn mule deer fawns
on the La Sal Mountains. He found that fawn survival was 54% during the first month of
life. Of the 22 fawns that died, predation was the cause of death for 16 (73%). Coyote
(Canis latrans) and black bear predation accounted for most of these deaths, although he
did not indicate how many were taken by which species.

Can you see that. Or do you want me to highlight the part where it says coyote and black bear accounted for most of the fawns deaths.
 
I can almost read!

"did not indicate how many were taken by which species."

Can you read & comprehend?

Yes,cantseeadamnthing it happens!

Show me the number of Coyote kills compared/versus the Black Bear Kills in Utah!

Tell you what!

I'll count kills I find from Coyotes & You count Kills you find from Black Bears & We'll compare numbers at the end of the year,how's that sound?

Let's place some money on this deal too!

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
You can read? Lets see how your math is:

And I can somewhat comprehend. So lets get this right, out of 22 deaths 16 was contributed to bear and coyotes.
So bear have an impact on the deer. So lets say 1/4 of those are bear, that would be 18% of fawns are killed by bear predation. So basically out of every 100 fawns, bear would be taking about 18 fawns. Is 18 fawn a significant number. Doesn't look like much but when you take in a bigger number 100,000 fawns 18,000 fawns taken a year by black bear.

I wont take you on that bet because I can somewhat comprehend, and I know that coyotes kill more than bear. My point is bear have impact too, and the bear population has probably doubled in the last 5 years. With the increase of bear there will be an increase fawn mortality.

If all else fails, maybe I will learn to see things, and you will learn to read and do math..
 
cantseeadamnthing!

I never once said Bears didn't kill a few Deer!
But not near what you're threat'n about!

Let's do the Bet/count?

I'm needing more cash so I can travel around this next Fall & have a little fun with friends!

The number of Mule Deer killed in Utah each year by Black Bears doesn't even compare to other problems with Our Struggling Herd!

Yes cantkillathing,the Bears do take a few Deer,You feel better now?

In Colorado they have 3 times as many Bears as we do cantkillathing and still have a better Deer Herd,WTF?

I still say we do the Bet?

You're a Typical Utah Hunter trying to blame one thing & one thing only on why the Utah Deer Herd is in such poor shape!

You ever wonder if TARDS & DWR were part to blame?



God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 
I am not trying to blame it on one thing, but simply trying to point out that predators, not just coyotes, not just lions, and not just bears, but all predators together have a big impact on deer. We need to get aggressive with all predators. Down here we have lots of habitat, we dont have people building on the summerrange or the winter range. we have 3 small communities that dont take up much ground we have miles and miles of habitat, but still no deer. So why is our deer herd struggling if it is not predators?
 
No Answer Bess? I believe you were down here on an elk hunt, hunting thousands of acres of farm land. So why does our deer herd suck?
 
cantkillathing!

I don't have an internet job so you gotta give me time to get home & fire up my mac!:D

I've said all along that Predators are a big problem with Utah's Deer Herd!

The number one Predator is Coyotes!

They are doing more damage than all other Predators combined excluding TARDS & DWR!

Ya,I was down there also helped on a Hunt after that on the Public Ground!

You think your Deer Herd is in trouble,I can show you several other areas that make your neck of the woods look like Paradise!

And yes I know what you're saying,I used to venture down your way just to look at the Bucks,perty sad now!

I'm gonna say it one more time cantkillathing!

There are a combination of many reasons why Our Deer Herd Sucks,not just the Bears!:D

God is Great!
Life is Good!
And People are Crazy!
I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!
 

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