Now we have 29 Units.....

Camper_A1

Camper_A1

Very Active Member
Messages
1,028
Now that we are going to the 29 units with the goal of 18 bucks per 100 does, is there any unit even close to the buck to doe ratio? Besides the limited entry units I don't think there are any other units even close and the tags cut are going to be greater than stated. What do you guys think?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]Tags will probably be cut by 30,000. The DWR already knows this will happen. Most of the southern parts of the State are at or above the buck to doe ratios. More people will be applying in the southern part of the state because more tags will be issued than any other part of the state.

Southern Utah hunters will be hating that part. We will be sacrificing the South for revenue.

Southwest Desert has a buck to doe ratio of 29/100 which means more tags will be issued to bring that ratio down to 18/100. If people complain that there is no bucks on the Southwest Desert now then just wait a few years.

Dutton 20/100 the buck number needs to come down

Panguitch 20/100 the buck number needs to come down

Zion 25/100 the buck number needs to come down.

Pine Valley 21/100 the buck number needs to come down

West Desert 19/100 the buck number needs to come down

The bucks will be reduced on all these units. What?? I thought Option 2 was to grow a ton of bucks hahaha

Again the Southern Part of the state will be sacrificed for revenue costs because they can handle more tags.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 06:10PM (MST)[p]There are many units at or above 18/100. The SW desert is the highest at 29, Monroe, Stansbury and Bonanza are the lowest. All of the others are around 14-18.

www.bowhuntersofutah.com
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 06:33PM (MST)[p]Elite,
You are all dooms day with this. No one has said that tags will be cut by 30,000 so why do you get on here and post that. Currently the plan is to cut tags by 13,000. If you look at the numbers it is nothing.

2010 Utah had approximatly 92,000 deer tags available to the public.

2010 Utah sold approxinatly 87,ooo deer tags.

That means we were 5,000 tags shoert of selling out!

If you take the 5,000 tags that were not sold and subtract that into the 13,000 tags that are proposed to cut you have an actual tag reduction of 8,000 tags. The majority of Utah hunters agree that the deer herd is in big trouble so I don't think that a tag reduction of 8,000 tags (13,000 total) is that big of a sacrifice.

These numbers were taken off the DWR website.

Elite, It sounds like you are from Northern Utah. I am from Southern Utah and attended the Rac meetings. There was an overwhelming support for Option 2, as a matter of fact our Racs tried to pass it in 2009 and it was shut down.
My point is that don't worry about us in the South. We will figure it out. No need to be the little hen that tells us the sky is falling. We have been hoping for this change for about 5 years and we have been wanting a change to the statewide archery for longer than that.
 
Dude elite i guess you predict the future huh. Hope you dont quit your day job. I live in southern and i guess i get what i deserve huh. I'm just glad i know its not the end of the world if i dont get a tag every year. If you would have paid attention to the board meeting and your general fishon you would know the DWR wont up permits to bring them down to 18. They only issue more tags if the unit is over 25/100.The big question is how many tags will they issue and NO not even a fortune teller such as yourself knows the answer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 06:49PM (MST)[p]If you believe that its only 13,000 tags then you have been drinking to much koolaid.

All im saying is that in the South Units then more buck tags will be issued because the buck to doe ratios are higher and the DWR needs the revenue.

I hunt Southern Utah, BTW, and hunters are complaining about the buck numbers right now, but wait until they reduce the buck numbers even more.
 
Now little Brutus they will drop the buck number down to 18 so they can issue more tags on these units.
 
If all the units are at objectives then why all the outcry to change them? It seems if you believe the buck/doe ratios we are there. Maybe it is just a ploy to reduce the hunter migration to the Southern units.
 
Elite nothing you say makes sense. I feel like you are a magician trying to pull numbers from your magical hat and hoping we will all buy in. However if someone calls BS on hypothetical numbers you get upset. You can't just make up numbers as a scare tactic to get people to support your ideas.

I am glad that you do hunt S. Utah. We appreciate the money in the local economy. I don't really care where you hunt. I hunt the extended archery hunts in N. Utah.

I don't see how anyone can look at the deer numbers that we currently have along with the false/inaccurate deer counts that are being presented to us by the DWR and not want some kind of change.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 07:11PM (MST)[p]I know it's quite a magic trick huh? It's funny that you talk about the false/inaccurate deer counts because those same people who are counting will determine how many tags are issued based off their counts.

You can also bet that tags will issued a little higher than they should be to make up for revenue costs.

In other words numbers can be fixed a little because of $$$$$$
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-10 AT 07:19PM (MST)[p]i cant believe you guys are willing to use their buck/doe ratio all while knowing that the numbers they present are gotten by using the swag method of counting. swag is scientific wild a$$ guess. the best thing about the 29 units is that they will be forced to do an accurate count to manage these units for objective. if they dont do it properly we need to climb all over them and force them to listen to us. btw i live and hunt in the southern region
 
Elite "the magician" Buddy give it up on this thread. You have not typed one post on this subject were you did not use fabricated numbers to scare/trick someone into drinking your Kool Aid.

Today in the meeting Anis was asked what option would best help manage the deer herds. Guess what his response was? Yep you guessed it option 2. He told the Wildlife Board that option 2 would best help manage the deer herd. Under option two there is more accountability for the DWR. I don't think that our biologist are incompetent to make an accurate count. I believe that the current formula that is being used in the computers by the biologist does not allow them to succeed. I am hopeful that option 2 will help our friends at the DWR generate better results.

As far as the more tags will be issued to make up for money. Come on you don't know that. Quit making stuff up. If it happens two years from now then you have something to get fired up about but don't go around crying about unspilled milk.
 
Honeymooner, All my numbers are from the DWR website. Their counts won't be any more accurate than they are right now because they will be using the same model as they do right now. The DWR's numbers are the only numbers we have and they will decide how many tags are issued based on counts and money. If the tags are lower then they will play with the numbers a little to raise the tags higher because of revenue.

Hooner follow the money trail.
 
Funny because in the recorded minutes at Rac meetings then Anis said that Option 2 won't help grow the deer herds. Maybe you were drinking to much koolaid listening to simon and garfunkel
 
29 units? Nope, wrong. We HAD 29 units under the current plan, but after today, not even the WB knows how many will come. First they have to figure out where the deer are"born, live and die" before they can start making up new maps. When all the bs is hashed over, they still won't take into account the deer herd, just what SFW bought with their blatant slap in the public face bribe today.

I hope for the best, but it's going to be fairly overwhelming to get this thing off the ground the right way...
 
Elite, he said it at the meeting today. Should of listened. When asked what option is the best to manage the deer herds he referenced option 2. Speaking of not listening you must of been watching Cheech and Chong "Up in smoke" the last 3 months because nothing you say makes any sense.

I would continue to help spread some light on your way of thinking but I am going to need to rent a jack hammer to penetrate that thick skull of yours.

Good luck in your future hunts. I hope that you are atleast able to draw a tag every ten years. If you do make it down south again good luck with some of the big bucks that will be roaming the hills.
 
Elite, Anis said none of the three options were geared toward herd growth. But he did say opt #2 is the better opt for more accuratly managing deer herds. Thats a better starting point than the other 2. Thats what was on the table. If you would have listened the board addressed key factors limiting deer herds that the dwr presented, coyotes, roadkill, habitat ect. They wanted to at least start out on the right foot with the best management opt to move forward with. WHILE addressing the key factors that are limiting deer herds.
 
Men I'm done trying to convince you of supporting any position it's over. Congrats it went through.

Anis has said for months that none of these plans will grow more deer. Reducing buck harvest won't grow more deer.

That being said let me tell you EXACTLY what Director Karp said was that with the reduction in tags THERE WILL BE PEOPLE AND PROGRAMS CUT PLAIN AND SIMPLE. I've told you this for weeks.
You want to take hunters out of the hills to grow more bigger bucks so BRUTUS and 73 can get on a magazine cover.

Now you expect them to give you a higher level of management with even lower funding??? Ya'll are calling elite a magician??
Where is this money coming from?? The Legislature is pretty pissed that the DWR would voluntarily cut their own throats this way. They ain't getting any more funds to offset what they just did, to NOT grow more deer, let alone to provide you magicians with the upped level of management you all hoped for. Are you going to hire 28 more Biologists??? How about 15 more CO's??? Airtime for helicopters??? money for coyote extermination???

One of the many aspects you didn't account for.

please BRUTUS or 73 tell me that it's only 13,000 deer tags at $35.00 a pop so we can all confirm your complete ignorance on what was done today. Oh and let me know where these magical funds are going to come from to pay for the "higher, better level of management"






*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
"If all the units are at objectives then why all the outcry to change them? It seems if you believe the buck/doe ratios we are there. Maybe it is just a ploy to reduce the hunter migration to the Southern units."




FINALLY ONE HONEST PERSON!!!!!!!!!!!















*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
WW, your the one who constantly said "there already managing individual units" so why do we need more biologist? Let me tell you what the guy in charge of finance said when asked how this opt #2 would impact finances. We (DWR) wont know how much funding will be lost until we implement it. It could generate revinue if quality improved and more nonresidents started to apply for the better quality units. Thats what the money guy said. I dont think you listened a bit to what was said. They will be doing just as much to improve deer #s with opt #2 as anything they could have passed today.Only with opt 2 they'll be able to regulate hunting pressure on deer herds better. So all knowing all telling Wiley how many tags will be cut? I guess you werent paying attention when they said they would hafto raise fees. Your sure as hell werent paying attention when a board member pointed out that the division's budget had doubled in 13 years and we have less deer under current management ie regionwide hunting. So I guess i would rather flush my money down the toilet trying something new and more accuratly accounting for hunter distribution cause what they were doing wasnt working.

Anything else ohh wise one.
 
Ha, you certainly heard what you wanted. He stated that about 700k was ONLY in tag sales. This did not account for lost revenue from combo licenses, federal monies at 22 dollars per tag and application fees. His comments regarding "not knowing" were because a decision on tag cuts had not been made. At a minimum of 13000 tags cut, the net loss will be an estimated minimum of over 2m per fiscal year.
 
Wiley,
Like I said that the meeting it is only Step 1.

No my focus is not making a magazine cover. As far as the second motion, I would have been fine with that. In fact I thought we should have gone micro units in the three RACS that voted that way. I also thought we should have left the Northern and Central in one big region. According to some the # of hunters has no affect on the herds. So we could have sold unlimited numbers of tags in that big region. Covers the money and everybody that just wants to hunt. How long do you think that would have worked out? Which area would have been more biologically correct in 10 years?

BTW I would completely support equal tags for bowhunters. I would love to see a few more archery only units formed. I love to shoot and hunt with my bow, but I love deer and the future of their well being MORE! You can call me what you want and I promise I won't feel bad, it just makes me believe you can not think of anything helpful to say and I quit paying attention to your views. Not that I think you care if I listen but maybe you do or you would have not called me out personaly?


There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
Never was in this thing to get mine. Never brought up statewide archery once. Never divided hunters once. Never asked for one additional tag for a bowhunter.


BRUTUS thanks for confirming your ignorance. I could take the time to explain Federal Funding and how that money is now going to be cut as well but you wouldn't understand. Your simple mind see's paying about $4.00 more for that tag. Leave it at that any further explanation would be a waste of my limited typing skills
and you'd need to take your shoes off so you could use your toes for "figuring"


Just sit back in your "happy place" and wait till 2012 when a plan goes in to effect that will not grow more deer, will reduce funding for programs that will help grow more deer, will increase hunter pressure in Southern Utah and put people out of work.

Think of it this way BRUTUS. Jake Albrect, Keele Johnson, Tom Hatch and Del Brady took more UTAH hunters out of the field in a little over 4 hours this morning than PETA has taken out of the field in their EXISTENCE... Plain and simple fact.

WHY







*****************************************
Wiley,
I am nominating that for post of the
century on Monster Muleys!

Your are spot on.
 
WW don't forget SFW with their $360,000 check to buy votes. Sounds like the tactics of Washington.
 
Hooner Wrote: "Today in the meeting Anis was asked what option would best help manage the deer herds. Guess what his response was? Yep you guessed it option 2. He told the Wildlife Board that option 2 would best help manage the deer herd. Under option two there is more accountability for the DWR. I don't think that our biologist are incompetent to make an accurate count. I believe that the current formula that is being used in the computers by the biologist does not allow them to succeed. I am hopeful that option 2 will help our friends at the DWR generate better results."

This is enough of a reason alone to get behind Option 2 and make it a success.
 
I like that opt2 passed, one thing that worrys me is units like vernon,back in the mid 80s early 90s they had a 1000 buck deer tags.I was wondering what year it was closed and then opened?my point is it has been opened for at least 5 years with limited tag #s.and that herd seems to stay the same.It cant be a habitat problem, there is some poaching problems in recent times,I think its a predator problem.IMHO until you know what you're herd #S are how can you say that opt 2 works because no one knows what the deer population is.They have time to make deer counts now,they need to get busy and see what kind of deer herd #s we have.So they can make the right calls on how many permits can be issued on each unit.One thing for sure its good to see so many hunters worried about are herd and pushing for changes.
 
>Dutton 20/100 the buck number needs
>to come down
>
>Panguitch 20/100 the buck number needs
>to come down
>
>Zion 25/100 the buck number needs
>to come down.
>
>Pine Valley 21/100 the buck number
>needs to come down
>
>West Desert 19/100 the buck number
>needs to come down

I don't see anywhere that says they want to REDUCE buck numbers in any unit. It says they will manage for AT LEAST 18 per 100 does and tags in units not at or above this level will be reduced.
 
First, I am going to cut and paste my post from the DH thread:

Been a while since I have posted here in MM land.
I respect a lot of your opinions, and it is good that some of you think the changes yesterday will help the herds.

The DH program will never look the same.

The Extended Archery folks better enjoy next year, that unit will become a limted entry archery only unit in 2012. Don't beleive me, just wait.

As for the rest of the "twenty nine" units, what a joke. Its going to take a year or four for some of you to realize how bad a decision was made yesterday, but just wait. When its been four years and you still have yet to draw a tag on the mountain you "used" to hunt, you might just get the drift.


SECOND:

It is still all about $$$. Thus, the soon to be new LE Archery Only Wasatch Units (thats right Units). These units will bring in big $$$ and oh the money they will bring in from the conservation groups!

I will also enlighten some of you Southern Utah folks who obviously need the education. The DWR will sell you all out so bad to keep revenue, and the fact that you don't see this coming is somewhat comical really. How will they do this - they are going to let every person in the state apply for your Southern Primo units and then when they don't draw they will keep their "preference" points and just draw a tag on some other unit, or buy one over the counter. So how does this affect Mr. SouthernUtah, now instead of 25,000 applying for 15,000 tags, you are going to have 50,000 applying for the 1,000 tags on your mountain every year. Good luck with that.
 
>What unit do you guys think
>will be the hardest to
>draw? I am guessing
>Beaver


I am guessing you are right. And the sad part, Brag is that the Beaver Management unit covers a lot more than just the Beaver Mountains.
 
The DWR will be losing revenue by cutting tags right? If units are over the 18/100 ratios then you can bet they will try to squeeze as many tags as they can on those units which will make the buck to doe ratio go down. Remember they will cut tags in some areas and increase tags in other areas.
 

Similar threads

V
Looking for a great mule deer unit in Colorado for youth (my son) with 5 points (last year as a youth)
Replies
4
Views
1k
VWiddi1
V
M
Helping Deer in Region G (and everywhere in WY)
Replies
10
Views
884
Stillwater165
Stillwater165
urge2hunt
Updated Mule Deer & Bull Elk Hunts for 2024
Replies
1
Views
1k
BUGLEnmIN
BUGLEnmIN

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

0CC578B9-462F-4F8D-A679-A49D86ECEB34.jpeg
PS1.jpg
0F39CEA9-5532-4BF6-A2BD-B5195386F343.jpeg
2015 rifle.jpg
L1180036.jpeg
PICT0147.JPG
8ECB9C03-D1CE-4F14-AEF1-FCAECC33D99F.jpeg
84581.jpeg
Screenshot_20230117_155808_Instagram.jpg
IMG_0116.jpeg
IMG_5104 copy.jpg
8ADB348F-B8A7-4800-B2C6-0F27D15A34D0.jpeg
Back
Top Bottom