The Wasatch front is the answer to Utah Deer Problem

O

OldSchool

Guest
I have hunted Utah for over 40 years and I remember the huge deer kill we had in the 90?s that about wiped out our deer herds and I also remember how mad I was when they made the Wasatch Front archery only, but I adapted and started bow hunting and have seen some amazing deer every year, killing one well that is another story anyone who has ever archery hunted knows how hard it is.

My point is has the DWR or any group even looked at what an archery only unit can do for the deer population? From my understanding it was suppose to be a depredation hunt and instead it turned an area with little winter ground (all the fancy houses) and harsh winters into a trophy unit.

If you look at what the Wasatch Front has done for archery in Utah, it changed archery in this state to where you could buy a left over archery tag over the counter a week after the hunt to having them sell out when the draw results came out and if you didn't put in for the draw you were out of luck. And look at the business it has brought to all the small archery dealers and sporting goods stores.

And rifle hunters crying that it's not fair (the only fair in life is spelled FARE and that is what you need to ride the bus) life is not fair so get use to it. Yes we get a longer season but take a look at the equipment we have to use it's like comparing a bicycle to a car and a lot of guys who are successful on the Wasatch Front are guys who put the time and the miles in to kill a good buck. It may be a news flash to some, but you do have to get out of the truck and off that ATV and hike if you want to see a good deer.

Like I said before I think someone should really take a close look at what a archery only unit can do for a deer herd and of course the ever important $$dollar$$ to the state of Utah and use the Wasatch as a model for other areas. And rile hunters take the time and go to your local archery shop pick up a bow and shoot. You may be surprised how much fun it can be. You can still hunt elk with a rifle I do.

Its funny nobody ever said anything about the extended archery until they saw the quality of animals coming off that mountain and all of a sudden it's not fair. From what I have seen I my years hunting is that the Wasatch Front has had everything thrown at it and it went from a good rifle hunt and surviving bad winters and loss of winter ground to big houses and having to deal with predators (how many lions do you see killed up there) to being one of the best trophy units in Utah.

The Wasatch Front has had everything bad that can happen to mule deer but for some reason it keeps turning out good deer every year.
 
Fair is when Extended Areas of the newly formed Wasatch West Unit become limited entry. Or, when all of the extended hunters now have to put in for the Wasatch West unit in order to continue to hunt the Extended, that will be an easy one to draw! LOL.

You better hope and pray that someone thinks rational about things between now and 2012, or you just might be hunting your last extended hunt next fall.
 
>The wasatch Front is NOT archery
>only. there are areas with
>in it that are but
>the entire front is not.
>


Not yet!
 
I hunt archery, i dont think i will ever go back to hunting with a rifle, unless its a late season cow tag or something like that, but i dont think it would be wise to make the whole front archery only.
 
I think he was referring to the archery only area on the Wasatch and you might be surprised how many people think that the whole Wasatch is archery only.

But he brings up a good point, why are the deer so big on the Wasatch archery area? If you look at post throughout the years or even pick up a old Wasatch Front Muleys Calendar you see great bucks taken from Aug-Dec. I have hunted it as a kid with a rifle and started hunting it with a bow 5 years ago and have taken 3 deer and personally I would not want to hunt anywhere else. Every summer and winter I see a shooter buck along with a few smaller bucks. And there is a lot of pressure up there when the regular season is over. So I wonder the same thing why is the archery only unit on the Wasatch Front always producing good deer? Is it because it's an archery only unit? Or are the genetics up there just awesome? Or are guys just lucky? I don't know the answer, what do you guys think?

I do love my Wasatch Front, it's close to home and having a family along with small kids it's nice to be able to hunt in my own back yard and if you hike for a couple of hours you are in some beautiful country and if there is ever an emergency you can be home in less than an hour.
 
The wasatch front is the shizzzzz.

Its the only example in this state of what good mule deer managment with high opportunity/high quality truly is. The fronts buck to doe ratio hovers around 37/100. Its population is at objective and sometime exceeds objective if given a few mild winters. It doesn't need any of the Bull sheit SFW dollars or habitate projects to produce!! It has loads of coyotes, bears, and lions all taking their toll on the deer. Guess what i have never seen a hounds-man up any canyon on the front and I see predator tracks in every canyon. It has massive road kill numbers and the only thing that effects the deer on that amazing unit is a hard winter. Archers can kill a doe and they can hunt for 4 months a year clear into the rut and it still cranks out the trophy bucks. WTH!!

No wonder SFW hates it. No wonder die hard rifle guys hate it. They are flat out smacked upside the head with the facts that they sell toooooo many rifle tags in this state. They are smacked up side the head with facts that archers don't wound 50 bucks each every year.

Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-10 AT 10:52PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-03-10 AT 10:51?PM (MST)

SW,
I agree with the success of the Front Unit? Here is my question?

Currently-16,000 archers, 70,000 rifle/muzzy hunters. Well why not make a another 5 archery only units. Issue 40,000 archery tags on those units. That would leave 23 units to spread out the remaining 46,000 rifle/muzzy hunters. You keep the total number the same as it is currently. You spread out the rifle hunters and give units less pressure to provide for more quality. The 6 archery units should have quality for the same reasons you have all stated in the previous post concerning the Front. If rifle hunters wanted to increase quality and set out a year or two then cut some of the 46,000 tags. If archery sells out every year and quality stays high add a unit or two to the 6. If it is under subscribed annually shift an archery unit to rifle. I know some will scream you would be cramming all the archers on 6 units and giving 23 to the rifle hunters. I say that because based off of what the archers are all claiming, pressure from the archers it not really a big deal. 6 units would mean less than 7000 hunters on that unit at once. Much less than are currently hunting the Front?

Now this would all be much easier to implement with in a 29 unit system. Now to grow more deer you can still implement plans like the current plan into those 29 units.

I know I am just a retarded douche according to some but I really believe this is the type of model we could get with the 29 unit system.



There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
AMEN to oldschool and SW!!! the front is sick and everyone knows it. i never thought about managing the units by turning them into archery only units. i like that idea. and even have them hunt the whole 4 months on all the units that they turn them into. it would eventually make those jealous rifle hunters like the archery guys here in about 5 years when they fix that herd.

and for all of these smart Asses that correct everyone on here for saying the front isnt ALL archery only need to relax. he was meaning the majority is.

I love the Front and will always try and pull that tag as long as it lives.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-10 AT 00:03AM (MST)[p]Husky,
I believe it will vastly improve the rifle units also. Maybe they would take a year or two to draw but that is the trade off. Archers may be able to hunt every year and rifles may have to set out a year or two. Currently unless you are hunting the northern region you may be setting out a year or two anyway. Maybe it will be a three or four for the rifle tags. Either way both make some sacrifices. Rifle hunters may not hunter every single year but have higher success. Archers may have less success but hunt every year?

Again I still believe you will need to put focus on predators, highways, habitat and all the other funs stuff on each of those units. I will also point out that this would much for difficult to do in a region system. Just trying to throw out some ideas that will keep us all focused on fixing our herds.

There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
I have never hunted the front. But correct me if I am wrong, I have always been under the impression that the front was rugged, steep, thick country that required a lot of climbing and hiking?

Also, aren't most of the good bucks taken around the rut?

The front is successful, because it has some unique habitat charactaristics. The whole state of Utah is not like the front.

The front is successful for quality bucks because you can hunt the rut. I have hunted other general units and seen squat only to return during the rut and find good buck all over the place. The rut concentrates those bucks, pulls them out of the high country and off of private land.

Utahs problem is habitat and the fact that we are the second driest state in the nation. Look at the herds during the 80's and they were strong with losts of bucks, you will also notice during that time that we had like nine straight years of good rain fall. We just have not had that since. I am an archer, and even I know that archery only is not our answer. It is great to have the front, but we need to see it for what it is, a unique and precious resourse we need to protect, but far from a modle to pattern the rest of the state after.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-10 AT 09:25AM (MST)[p]The front is "NOT" awesome because you can hunt it in november!! Its just icing on the cake!

The bucks are "NOT" on Privite property until November when most dedicated hunters hunt them!!

It has huge bucks year round that you can hunt!!

The only secrete to the fronts success rate is people CANT JUST shoot a buck when they spot it through their spotting scope. The other reason is archers dont dump the first 2 point they spot. In fact very few ever dump a 2 point they practice trigger control which is something an average Utah rifle hunter seems to lack!

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
>I have never hunted the front.
> But correct me if
>I am wrong,


I have to correct you before you even started.;-) If you haven't ever hunted the front then IMHO you cant even argue one way or another its biology, success or failures. If you haven't hunted the front and you are an archery hunter then you need to wake up, strap on your day pack and hit the hills.

You "COULD or CAN" road hunt the front there are bucks down Low next to the roads and houses year round. It will be frowned on though This is highly populated civilized country. People will turn you in in a heart beat! Unlike southern Utah where you can put a couch in the back of your pick up, put on some face paint and crack a cool one while your ho drives you around looking for a two point.
 
>I have hunted Utah for over
>40 years and I remember
>the huge deer kill we
>had in the 90?s that
>about wiped out our deer
>herds and I also remember
>how mad I was when
>they made the Wasatch Front
>archery only, but I adapted
>and started bow hunting and
>have seen some amazing deer
>every year, killing one well
>that is another story anyone
>who has ever archery hunted
>knows how hard it is.
>
>
>My point is has the DWR
>or any group even looked
>at what an archery only
>unit can do for the
>deer population? From my
>understanding it was suppose to
>be a depredation hunt and
>instead it turned an area
>with little winter ground (all
>the fancy houses) and harsh
>winters into a trophy unit.
>
>
>If you look at what the
>Wasatch Front has done for
>archery in Utah, it changed
>archery in this state to
>where you could buy a
>left over archery tag over
>the counter a week after
>the hunt to having them
>sell out when the draw
>results came out and if
>you didn't put in for
>the draw you were out
>of luck. And look at
>the business it has brought
>to all the small archery
>dealers and sporting goods stores.
>
>
>And rifle hunters crying that it's
>not fair (the only fair
>in life is spelled FARE
>and that is what you
>need to ride the bus)
>life is not fair so
>get use to it. Yes
>we get a longer season
>but take a look at
>the equipment we have to
>use it's like comparing a
>bicycle to a car and
>a lot of guys who
>are successful on the Wasatch
>Front are guys who put
>the time and the miles
>in to kill a good
>buck. It may be a
>news flash to some, but
>you do have to get
>out of the truck and
>off that ATV and hike
>if you want to see
>a good deer.
>
>Like I said before I think
>someone should really take a
>close look at what a
>archery only unit can do
>for a deer herd and
>of course the ever important
>$$dollar$$ to the state of
>Utah and use the Wasatch
>as a model for other
>areas. And rile hunters
>take the time and go
>to your local archery shop
>pick up a bow and
>shoot. You may be surprised
>how much fun it can
>be. You can still hunt
>elk with a rifle I
>do.
>
>Its funny nobody ever said anything
>about the extended archery until
>they saw the quality of
>animals coming off that mountain
>and all of a sudden
>it's not fair. From what
>I have seen I my
>years hunting is that the
>Wasatch Front has had everything
>thrown at it and it
>went from a good rifle
>hunt and surviving bad winters
>and loss of winter ground
>to big houses and having
>to deal with predators (how
>many lions do you see
>killed up there) to being
>one of the best trophy
>units in Utah.
>
>The Wasatch Front has had everything
>bad that can happen to
>mule deer but for some
>reason it keeps turning out
>good deer every year.


this is one dumb greedy post
 
Elmer Fud (Mr. RIFLE HUNTER) is just mad because he can't hunt the front in the rut like they hunt elk in the rut all over the state.
 
Typical response from a die hard rifle guy smacked up side the head with facts!!


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
SW,
The fact that you did not even comment on my post tells me one thing. You are not concerned with the rest of state at all as long as you can continue to hunt the Front yourself every year? Correct me if I am wrong, please! Do you care what the rest of the state really does and not just to go against the SFW?

I just read a post you made that said you were not all that against the 29 unit thing other than SFW was involved. That is crazy. That is not different than hunters saying archery hunt should not exist because they dislike the UBA or BOU? I promise it was not only the SFW that supported Option 2. I have never been a member and I know many others that support Option 2 that are not fond of the SFW. To blame this all on the SFW is just an easy target because there is group out there that does not like them for various reason.

There are not enough deer in Utah...FOR REAL.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-10 AT 11:16AM (MST)[p]Some of you ought to look at the harvest stats. Harvest success for rifle is 28%, for Muzzle is 27%, and for archery it is 20%. Making a archery only unit will not save that many bucks. It is the amount of tags that is given for a unit that will save bucks. If you turned the whole state into archery only and give out the same amount of tags (97,000) then the harvest would be a little less but not by much. 20% success for archers really isn't that much different than 28% for rifle. Plain and simple making an archery only unit would not work.

The reason the Wasatch still produces good bucks is because there isn't that many people that hunt it comparitvely to the amount of tags given statewide.

swbuckmaster - get rid of your compound bow with your high tech equipment and pick up a recurve and the harvest success would go way down for archery. Are you willing to do that? If so, let me know how it goes next season.
 
sw. screw s.f.w.and thier worthless projects.sw how old are you 10 12.no projects done for wildlife are worthless. done by any body. get a life. if all bow hunters are like you.god help the sport.,,.,.,..,
 
The state of Utah's mule herd is in big trouble for a multitude of reasons. It's just not the predators, or highway fatalities, or the lack of habitat or just hunter pressure. It is all of those and a lot more.

One thing I think many rifle hunters seem to forget is the fact that most bow hunters started out rifle hunting. I started out with a .22 as a young kid in Wyoming hunting ground squirrels and small game and then onto deer and elk as I aged. I hunted many years with a rifle and loved it but as time passed and rifles and scopes got better I found myself missing the close encounters and in the early 70's switched exclusively to a bow and haven't hunted with a rifle since.

For some reasons I can't comprehend, a percentage of rifle guys just seem to hate the bow hunters and are exceedingly jealous of their longer seasons. How many times have we heard how unfair the bow hunter?s have it and of their selfishness?

The Wasatch front is certainly not the cure to Utah?s mule deer woes, but if one will step back and take a good look, though unbiased eyes, at that area, one should be able to see, very clearly that bowhunting season can and should be treated very differently than rifle seasons.

SWbuckmaster and I don't see eye to eye on our basic philosophies, but when he said the following, ?Its the only example in this state of what good mule deer managment with high opportunity/high quality truly is. The fronts buck to doe ratio hovers around 37/100. Its population is at objective and sometime exceeds objective if given a few mild winters. It doesn't need any of the Bull sheit SFW dollars or habitate projects to produce!! It has loads of coyotes, bears, and lions all taking their toll on the deer. Guess what i have never seen a hounds-man up any canyon on the front and I see predator tracks in every canyon. It has massive road kill numbers and the only thing that effects the deer on that amazing unit is a hard winter. Archers can kill a doe and they can hunt for 4 months a year clear into the rut and it still cranks out the trophy bucks. WTH!? in my estimation, it could not have been stated any better.

The Wasatch Front, as far as a deer area, is a region that has about every bad mule deer influence it could have. It has basically very little good winter range remaining. A good portion of where the deer do winter is within the parameters of the deep ?lake effect? snows. It it basically surrounded by the busiest highways in Utah. There are few areas in Utah that have so much summer hiking and biking, by thousands upon thousands of city folks and their visitor friends. Coyotes and lions are in high numbers with basically no effective control methods that can be used, like in other areas. Its hunting season is the longest big game season in the entire state of Utah with several thousands hunters, hunting from just past mid August until the end of Nov. and yet its buck to doe ratio and the size if its bucks are better than many of Utah?s limited entry areas.

I would like to ask some of you rifle hunters, how this can happen? Why isn't the Division or the RAC's looking more closely at this phenomenon? Somewhere within its hunting parameters, it is shouting loud and clear and yet most refuse to listen to what it is saying. It is speaking volumes if we will listen.

And the extended unit is not solely a rut hunt. Decent to nice bucks are taken every year from early in the season, and throughout the hunt. I could post photos of critters taken within the past years of both bucks and bulls taken throughout the range of the long season.

This state refuses, for some reason, to see all the benefits that could be reaped from better bowhunting seasons.
Let's just say, that hypothetically, Utah designated 30 percent, of the 29 units, to archery only hunting. That would be about 9 units. Let's also say that anyone who bow hunted could only hunt in one of those 9 archery only units. The remaining 21 units would be shared by rifle and muzzle loader hunters. Thus the bow hunters could not hunt in those units and screw it up for the rifle guys.

Let's also say the bowhunting season was from the third week of August and continued until the last day of Oct. The rifle season was a 16 day hunt.

If Utah were to that, within 5 years, the bowhunting units would the envy of most rifle hunters, but many, rather than seeing it for what it REALLY was, would instead be yelling about how unfair they were being treated. That is the crux of this problem. There is a huge difference between bowhunting and rifle hunting and the long term effect it has on the critters we hunt.

The extended area aside, Utah resides as the King of short and unfriendly bow hunting seasons. And that selfishness in the end hurts the rifle hunter!

Have a good one. BB
 
This is a great thread. The people that dont hunt it just dont understand it. There are great bucks taken early in the year as well as the rut. I do believe that some of it has to do with the difficult terrain. I have hunted East Canyon during the rifle hunt, and it seems that in general, most rifle hunters dont go as high or far (not all rifle and muzzy guys are like this, I know there are hardcore guys that hunt with firearms). For all the naysayers that archery only units wouldnt work, just need to look at the ONE good deer area in the state. These deer also have near zero good winter range too.

Athens Archery Field Staff
Wicked1 Bowstring Staff
 
Don't confuse "have not hunted" the front, with have not been on the front. I never said that I was not familiar with the terrain or the area. I have lived in it, hiked in it, played in it....I just never bow hunted it. I have my own favorite stomping grounds that I dedicate my time to. Just because you have hunted an area does not make your an expert.

I still stand by the fact that the terrain/habitat has more to do with the big bucks than anything else. It is steep, thick and flat nasty at times. Many of the areas in "rifle" units that have those same charactaristic hold and produce big buck as well. The front is great, and I hope you get to keep hunting it for a long time....but it has nothing to do with the rest of this state and can not be used as a successful modle on every unit. The habitat dictates more about how the deer should be managed than any other factor. IMO
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-10 AT 06:26PM (MST)[p]Muley here is my response

>SW,
>The fact that you did not
>even comment on my post
>tells me one thing.
>You are not concerned with
>the rest of state at
>all as long as you
>can continue to hunt the
>Front yourself every year?

I didn't respond to your post because I got interrupted by a phone call and basically forgot about it.

>Correct me if I am
>wrong, please! Do you
>care what the rest of
>the state really does and
>not just to go against
>the SFW?

YES!!

>I just read a post you
>made that said you were
>not all that against the
>29 unit thing other than
>SFW was involved. That
>is crazy.

The facts are 29 units are not going to do a damn bit of good without shiit loads of more tag cuts! I am totally against the tag cuts because it is not worth the wait in years for the tags especially when all my friends, and family that hunt with rifles still can go out and find a good buck. Hell even you found a buck this year WTH.


That is
>not different than hunters saying
>archery hunt should not exist
>because they dislike the UBA
>or BOU? I promise
>it was not only the
>SFW that supported Option 2.

SFW was the ones that pushed it through! The plan did not go muledeer comity where all the special interests apparently wasted several years coming up with a plan that benefits all the groups.

> I have never been
>a member and I know
>many others that support Option
>2 that are not fond
>of the SFW.

who cares

>To
>blame this all on the
>SFW is just an easy
>target because there is group
>out there that does not
>like them for various reason.

this is BS!!

Have a good day:)




4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
ALL, 80% of the "Front" is open to all weapon types... 90% of the front is within minutes of a neighborhood and 100% of the people that hunt it want it left the hell alone.










2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
OK, I'm convinced now. Lets turn the whole State into Archery only and heck we can give out 300,000 tags, or wait according to the logic you guys are spewing, we can issue 700,000 archery tags statewide and the buck/doe ratio will be 300 bucks per 100 doe and the deer population may go upwards to 800,000. Yip, you guys convinced me.
 
lol typical thinking of a rifle guy. No flock shooting with a bow wont work like it does with a rifle. You will have to actually learn how to hunt. Learn how to shoot. actually get out of your truck. Take a bath so you don't stink and put it all together on the hill. Its definitely not a flock shot. lol. silly rifle hunter

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
i have bow hunted for 20years but for the last 5years i have rifle hunted deer on the front the way i look at it is don't hunt it we have to many people hunting it know as far as hound-man i am one i know of at least 6 different ones that hunt the front all the time
 
SW-I was just messin with the fact if we had 800,000 deer i wouldn't have to get out of the truck! I like to bow hunt but i drew a rifle tag this last hunt and was out of the truck all 5 days well b4 first light! I killed my buck on day 3 and was still at it for 2 more helping a freind. I only road hunt on LE tag!
 
Im not sure on the arguement here! Has any one heard If they are going to leave the extended archery on the Front for 2012? For someone to say hunting deer in the rut with a bow is easy obviously has not shot a bow! There is a ton of elements that can go wrong with a bow and arrow!

I started a company back in 2005 labeled Wasatch Front Muleys where I created a calendar to show off some of the awesome mule deer being shot off this unit with stick and string. I started hunting this extended unit in 93 and was blown away at the quality of animals I was seeing and the quality that was being taken. If you have or have not hunted the front Its steep and rugged along deep snow to trench through. My thoughts on a calendar was to showcase what this unit is producing with an OTC tag right here in our own backyard!

I had an arguement with a friend who stated this WFhunt is bullsh#t and its not fair to the muzzy and rifle guys! I agreed with him 100% then asked him," why would you limit yourself for a week or two to hunt mule deer with muzzy or rifle when you can hunt almost four months with a bow 20 minutes from home"! Well, we agreed to disagree and thats fine but for me I will hunt where there is the most opportunity weither its rifle, muzzy or bow and its clear that four months to hunt is the better choice.

Not sure if this statement is anything to do with Oldschool's thread but Im a die hard WFhunter along with thousands of other people and wanted to stand up for my believes on the Front!

The only down fall to this hunt is, you spend alot of money in gas countless days away from family many blown exhausting stalks ( did I mention fuel ) and the sickness we all have in our heads when we at work thinking who Is up there hunting my spot today and I hope they dont kill my buck!~lol

Good thread Oldschool!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-10 AT 10:09AM (MST)[p]>SW-I was just messin with the
>fact if we had 800,000
>deer i wouldn't have to
>get out of the truck!
>I like to bow hunt
>but i drew a rifle
>tag this last hunt and
>was out of the truck
>all 5 days well b4
>first light! I killed my
>buck on day 3 and
>was still at it for
>2 more helping a freind.
>I only road hunt on
>LE tag!

WOW, outta the truck before 1st light! that IS hardcore. I dont propose archery only for the whole state, just take the front as a good example to what things could be like on a few units. Its the only hard evidence that we have of management that is working, and has worked for a long time. there is a TON of hunting pressure, hard winters, lots of predators, and road kill. How else do you explain the big bucks on the front? Success is low, and we dont kill every little buck we see. And of course every guy up there wounds 3-4 deer per year because we are bow hunters huh, well guess what the front is still home to some of the best bucks in the state.

WFM- I am glad I'm not the only one that is sick to my stomach from Aug to Dec thinking of all the guys hunting "my" animals LOL. I was starting to think there was something wrong with me!
Athens Archery Field Staff
Wicked1 Bowstring Staff
 
To the guy who presented the kill ratios... Rifle: 27 percent. Muzzy: 25 percent or something close to it, and archery: 20 percent. You said that making it an all archery state wouldn't make a difference, but I think you forget that they allocate something like 14000 tags for archery and way more for the rifle hunt.

I don't think that making the state archery only is a good idea and heaven knows that it would never happen, but every onw know that out of those 14000 tags only 2800 were harvested. That's 20 percent. If utah averages 20K+ deer kills a year we could almost issue 9X the amount of tags currently sold.
 
Riflehunters.Bowhunters. Last time I checked they both end in hunters, I cant believe HUNTERS are really having this conversation. I know i started the thread about UBA but that was about UBA not bowhunters. This is the fight none will win.
 
Do any of you know why its closed to muzz and rifle? If you did there wouldn't be any arguement towards archers being the only ones able to hunt it.

THERES A CITY FULL OF PEOPLE RIGHT THERE!!! Is it safe to turn gun hunters out there?? NO it is not! Its better for archers to be able to hunt it than the state just killing deer and elk for destroying people property! COME ON use your heads!

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
There you go again gods gift!

"I was starting to think there was something wrong with me!"
Athens Archery godsgift Field Staff
Wicked1 best Bowstring hunter alive Staff
there is your not that special because you shoot a bow get off you high horse!

I was telling SW i'm not a road hunter! You die hard front guys are the only hunters that hike steep really tough dangerous deep snow packed mts. Give me a break your just pissed you cant have all your perc's anymore. This is a day from a AVAREGE die hard front guy "we drove all over to try to spot something to put a SNEEK ON and when we did another truck pulled up and next thing we knew they was up trying to get that buck have some respect"

My point is there is lazy hunters no matter the weapon so dont think your all that because your a "die hard front guy"! Yes plenty of guys shoot little bucks on the front and plenty of guys road hunt it!
 
TravisHunter,

Not sure where your logic is on that one. The point is that the harvest success rates btween rifle and muzzleloader really arent't tht much different. So, you would not be able to issue 9X the amount of tags if you went archery only. Yes, you could increase tags a little, but not by much. Therefore, you would not be able to increase opportunity if you took tags away from rifle hunters and gave them to bow hunters.
 
The WF has to continue the long season in order to keep the herd objective in check. I'm sure the board/DNR will realize this. What areas of the front are still opened to any weapon? I thought they closed City creek, Emigration, and Red Butte last year.
I have bow hunted but currently do not because of the family I choose to hunt with instead. So keep in mind guys not everybody can archery hunt.
At the end of the day we are all hunters and turning on one another is the most irresponsible thing we could do we as hunters are stewards to animals and land we hunt them in.

There was a suggestion on this thread proposing that we open more units to archery only. I would agree with this if all hunters were treated equally in the process. Open an area to archery only for a couple years, and then rotate in the other weapon types for a few years.


Keep in mind the board turned over option 2 to the DNR and instructed them to treat all groups equally, having said that you should be prepared to draw the WF in 2012. I wonder how many muzzy, shotgun, and rifle tags will be available on the WF draw?
 
Rackmaster,

My logic is that even though success rate is 20 percent, that only amounts to 2800 dead deer. And when we are talking about deer numbers in the thousands, 1 percent is a huge different. In the 29 units, I wouldn't mind seeing a few of the areas that completely suck like monte go archery only for a couple of years
 
Would you guys support making the wasatch front archery only-I80 to the point-an unlimited draw under the new system? Meaning there would be no cap on the number of guys that could draw it, but it would have to be drawn just like all of the other tags and could be drawn as a last choice. It would not affect preference points.
 
Travishunter,

Yes, but if you make all deer tags (97,000) in the State archery tags (meaning totally do away with the rifle and muzzle hunts)as some have suggested on this thread.....then obviously you will kill more bucks than 2800. In fact, the harvest of bucks will only be about 8% lower than what it is now with archery, muzzle, and rifle combined. You really would not be able to increase opportunity as you suggest. Again 29% harvest for the rifle hunt is really not that far from 20% success on the archery. Again, if you give more archery tags and take away that same number of rifle tags, you have not saved that many bucks. The harvest rates are not all that different. You would be able to increase tag #'s, but again, not by that much, so you really wouldn't gain much in opportunity.
 
slcmuley said "At the end of the day we are all hunters and turning on one another is the most irresponsible thing we could do we as hunters are stewards to animals and land we hunt them in."

One of the most profound comments to date on here. If there was ever a time to set aside differences and compromise some of our own personal beliefs, it's now.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
rackster,

first off, i apologize for calling you rackmaster...

2nd, i agree that there wouldn't be a huge increase by switching everything over to archery, but if 97,000 tags were sold, at 20% success rate that would amount to about 19,400. if it was rifle state wide, we'd kill at 29% about 28,100. thats a 9,000 difference. if we multiplied 9,000 by a 20% success rate that would amount to about 45,000 more tags. that definitly would increase opportunity.

But i do agree that its not as big of a difference as i originally thought.
 
Where are you guys coming up with a success rate for archery of 20%. If I'm not mistaken the archery success rate is down under 7% for the general units.

No one has suggested getting rid of rifle and muzzleloader hunting just to cut tags there and significantly add archery tags.

The key is not to harvest as many deer while maintaining opportunity. Believe me, having three times as many archers in the field is not a "selfish" desire. It's so that we can still hunt!

If you had to sit out 3 out of 4 years with the rifle or go archery hunting when you didn't draw a tag, what would rifle hunters choose? I think we'd find alot of them will pick up a bow.

Cheers,
Pete
 
> There you go again gods
>gift!
>
>"I was starting to think there
>was something wrong with me!"
>
>Athens Archery godsgift Field Staff
>Wicked1 best Bowstring hunter alive Staff
>
>there is your not that special
>because you shoot a bow
>get off you high horse!
>
>
>I was telling SW i'm not
>a road hunter! You die
>hard front guys are the
>only hunters that hike steep
>really tough dangerous deep snow
>packed mts. Give me a
>break your just pissed you
>cant have all your perc's
>anymore. This is a day
>from a AVAREGE die hard
>front guy "we drove all
>over to try to spot
>something to put a SNEEK
>ON and when we did
>another truck pulled up and
>next thing we knew they
>was up trying to get
>that buck have some respect"
>
>
>My point is there is lazy
>hunters no matter the weapon
>so dont think your all
>that because your a "die
>hard front guy"! Yes plenty
>of guys shoot little bucks
>on the front and plenty
>of guys road hunt it!
>
Take it easy man, I was only kidding. No where in my post did I say anything about bowhunters vs. rifle. I merely would like people to at least look at the WF as an example of what could be on some units. I honestly am not pissed about the decision. If I have to hunt with just a camera every other season then I guess I'll deal with that. If It gives my kids a chance to hunt in the future. No, i personally dont road hunt. Some guys glass from Wasatch Blvd. It always makes me laugh when I see that. I am there to get out and put some miles on my legs, and I consider it a good day just to look at some bulls or bucks. It seems to me that you are the one pissed and keep turning this into bow vs. rifle. This is a thread about how the WF is managed, and a lot of it does allow rifle hunting. Like I told you in your other thread "divided we fall". Remember that.

Pick a unit, make it rifle only, unlimited tags and see how things go for a few years. BTW would you lie me to remove my signature? It sure seems to bother you that I support American companies. Ahh never mind I kinda like having you on my tail LOL. But really I'm not against rifle hunting, I just think from a management standpoint there is something to be said for the low success rate of Archery equipment. Thats all. Have a good one man!

Athens Archery Field Staff
Wicked1 Bowstring Staff
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-10 AT 01:40PM (MST)[p]SWdouchemaster, you are the most negative person I have ever met, and thankfully not in person (not a threat I just don't like to associate with selfish pieces of SHIZZ). All of your drivel does nothing to bring hunters together it is always devisive. (Please read the next few sentences with a very sarcastic superior tone). ALL BOWHUNTERS ARE INCREDIBLE HUNTERS AND ARE SMARTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD, AND, ALL RIFLE HUNTERS ARE MORONS WHO ONLY ROAD HUNT. EVERYTHING I DO IS THE BEST AND EVERYTHING YOU DO AND THINK IS STUPID. I AM KING OF THE HUNTING WORLD SO PLEASE EVERYONE BOW DOWN TO MY GREATNESS AND TOUGHNESS; YOU UNWORTHY PEASANTS.
 
I dig all the snotty jabs at rifle hunters.

I would not be so quick to attribute a great late season, deep snow, rut hunt to archery only. In my mind it proves little as the north side of I80 has had some great success too with archery hunters. Don't forget rifle hunting is allowed there. Bountiful is culling deer from their city limits.

The Wasatch Front is successful for reasons beyond archery and you guys know it. There are two great things unique to the Wasatch Front 1) No domestic livestock. 2) No ATV's or road hunting.

I admit I get a little bitter against archers. They are quick to impose restrictions on rifle hunters while they demand perks. They refuse to smell their own stink. (I hunted the Wasatch archery in 2001. I've never seen so many crippled deer. I hear it was a similar gig this year.)

Archery hunting is not the perfect solution to deer management. If you don't want rifle hunters to complain about archers, stop demanding decreased rifle hunting oportunities in exchange for more achery oportunities.
 
I've got it. I keep hearing that it is unfair for bowhunters to get more time in the field. Lets make all 3 seasons 7 days, and limit the rifle and muzzy guys to a maximum range of 50yds (I know not pratical, but its just for the sake of argument). Fair is fair right? I'm game...

Athens Archery Field Staff
Wicked1 Bowstring Staff
 
If you want to hunt the extended, buy a bow and draw the tag. then hunt it. thats why the rest of us that were once rifle hunters left and switched to archery. we liked the perks that the extended seasons offered.
 
While you guys are busy throwing sticks and stones at eachother answer my question.

Would you support making the wasatch archery only (I80 to the point) area an unlimited (no quota) unit? Meaning everyone that wanted to hunt it would get a tag.
 
Smellybuck,
You are 100% correct!
I could care less about the Wasatch Front, or how long the archery hunt is. My problem is when the archery hunters are first in line to cut the rifle hunt to 3 or 5 days, then are unwilling to to even discuss any limitation to themselves. Most of the archery hunters on here think they are the greatest hunters in the world. I would dare to bet that 50% of buck killed with a bow are shot off water real tough!
 
yes I would support it if, there was no preference point earned. I don't believe you should gain a preference point if you get a tag.
 
Paul..You bring up a good point! Can you go into more detail on your proposal! Are you saying still keep the extended or just limit the hunt to the regular season?
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-10 AT 06:06PM (MST)[p]I think it should be left archery only with the dates it has now or maybe even later for bucks-like it was pre 2004-or 05 I can't remember exactly when it was shortened. Seems like the cluster was in 2004 with the big snows.

I like the idea of it being an unlimited draw for a number of reasons.
 
Would that mean you could put in for one of the other 29 units too, or just pick the Extended? I'd support it if that was the only area you could hunt if you put in for it. Seems to me that would eliminate some of the crowding, and just leave the guys that really love it. Not that it matters, it just seems like I see guys come up after striking out on the General archery, and not really know the boundaries, or regs. I'm for it!

Athens Archery Field Staff
Wicked1 Bowstring Staff
 
z

the real trick is to get archery hunters to limit their shots to 50 yards.
 
Do you guys think the Wasatch is a guarantee kill every year? Kill a monster buck every year? Yeah, I've seen monster bucks every year, but we can't shoot them from 500+ like you professional rifle hunters can. I've hunted the front the last 3 years, and have not killed a buck yet, even though I've seen great ones each year. I've passed tons of small bucks, but havn't sealed the deal on a big buck. Even ask SW how long it's been since he's killed a big one, and I guarantee you he hunts just as hard as anyone on here. We archers don't feel entitled to the Wasatch, we just know that we're the only practical management solution available.
 
Prism,
I really like the idea of making it a unlimited draw unit. Meaning that if you apply for the unit you will draw, but you cannot hunt any other unit and then go to the Wasatch.

I really enjoy the Extended Wasatch hunt, I hunt it about every year and have had some success. It is great...but the answer???

Some might say, Yeah it is the answer, shoot very few bucks and the herds are great. We do not need to kill predators, or do anything else, just harvest a very few bucks and the herd is great.

So when you say it is the answer, be careful, because that can be used against you. It is the answer for high quality archery opportunity for sure.
 
sorry Paul for not responding to your question. Right now i just want the front left alone or left the way it was same season dates, same number of hunters.

If its not broke don't try and fix it.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


Screw SFW and their BS worthless projects and once in a life time 100% success shoots! This state deserves better!!!
 
Does Wasatch Front deer herd success and hunting experience have anything to do with the lack of ATV access? (that is not a baited question)

One thing the archery only area has in common with option 2 is that it increases the number of older age class deer.
 
i think it does. less 4 wheeler trails = less lazy people being able to road hunt. (lets not get into the road hunting debate please Mr. lazy hunter... comment not directed towards any one specific individual)


it has alot to do with the fact that most people dont want to drag a buck up the side of the moutain, or have to hike down the side of the mountain to get to one. its noisy, its steep, its naasty... its not deer camp from when you were a child.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-10 AT 07:37PM (MST)[p]>Does Wasatch Front deer herd success
>and hunting experience have anything
>to do with the lack
>of ATV access? (that is
>not a baited question)
>
You can use a wheeler in some canyons on the front however you will have to hike most. You can road hunt in all of the canyons I know of and believe it or not some of the largest deer are right off the road. I hunted a 210" 36" or so buck this year that was next to the road.

The fronts successes is not because of its steep terrain IMHO it has everything to do with you simply cannot kill a buck when you see it through a spotting scope. You cant 90% of the time sneak close enough to a deer to get a shot with out alerting it to your presence. The wind swirls way to much in those canyons. Believe me if you could hunt it with a Muzzy, pistol, or rifle it would be a done deal with a tagged buck within the first 15 minutes of light.

On the front your hunt begins where a rifle hunt ends!





4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you will get!!
 
SWbuckmaster...

i agree with you. i hunted over 30 days on the archery hunt this year. I would have to agree that the difficulty is actually getting in on these deer. The wind, snow, buck brush, steep nasty sliding rock crap terrain makes it a beeotch to stalk a buck on.

i really would like to be able to hunt the extended for years to come. there is nothing wrong with it now, so why change it right?
 
Regardless of weapon, I dont think there should be any hunting period after Oct 31st!!
 

Similar threads

J
Mule Deer and CWD
Replies
45
Views
1k
HIcountryman
HIcountryman
Founder
Would you take the 56 yard shot?
Replies
14
Views
1k
fatrooster
fatrooster
M
Helping Deer in Region G (and everywhere in WY)
Replies
10
Views
848
Stillwater165
Stillwater165

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

C55A34F3-7C00-4DA0-B7F2-35A4EFB28BF0.png
2022.jpeg
IMG_2151.JPG
Screenshot_20220830_084003.jpg
F0A685C6-71AB-4C9D-83E4-821787B80A34.png
4D124AEA-FDD7-4C84-9DD9-B04C00CFC0CA.jpeg
8C580C92-262D-4BB8-90C3-CF78587BF6CD.jpeg
ABC1D575-EAEF-48A2-8488-DDB3D4F1431B.jpeg
73A9074B-FD55-4123-8910-D14E1EBA1E61.jpeg
20170228_210726.jpg
48F0FC6E-DDDE-48A7-AA6C-9DC4A51FA977.jpeg
20191102_083307.jpg
Back
Top Bottom