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rperkins
Guest
What do you think of Jim Karpowitz and Anis Aoude and the DWR Biologist stepping down and let some one else give it a try.
longshooter338
Active Member
- Messages
- 833
Would you want to take over this shatt storm ?
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
Why would they need to step down?
B
brutus
Guest
Cause the deer numbers are exploding in Utah. The UDWR has managed to have the best deer hunting in the west. They have been spot on with all theyre buck/doe ratio #s and herd #s too.
THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THE DEER HERD! THEY HAVENT ACCEPTED ANY RESPONSABILITY FOR THE SHAPE THE DEER HERD IS IN! IN THE REAL WORLD YOU DONT KEEP YOUR JOB IF YOU DO A CHITTY JOB!
ITS CALLED ACCOUTABILITY!!!
THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF THE MANAGEMENT OF THE DEER HERD! THEY HAVENT ACCEPTED ANY RESPONSABILITY FOR THE SHAPE THE DEER HERD IS IN! IN THE REAL WORLD YOU DONT KEEP YOUR JOB IF YOU DO A CHITTY JOB!
ITS CALLED ACCOUTABILITY!!!
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
Brutus, I thought maybe you had a few brains, but I misjudged you. The DWR might enforce the laws for wildlife, but they aren't incharge. The Wildlife Board and special interest groups have been running the show. The DWR can only provide their input, but they don't make the final decisions.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,313
When a question like that is asked it always reinforces the fact that being a public employee-servant is a thankless job! I have never seen anyone post on this site a "thanks" to the DWR when a 400" bull drops or someone kills a 30" buck.
I am a big fan of Jim Karpowitz and I think it will be a shame when he steps down!
I am a big fan of Jim Karpowitz and I think it will be a shame when he steps down!
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
those two guys are class acts.
you guys that think the dwr is at fault dont have a sniff of how the system is run.
The harder you work the luckier you get!!
you guys that think the dwr is at fault dont have a sniff of how the system is run.
The harder you work the luckier you get!!
B
brutus
Guest
Elite,
What are the DWR responsible for if they dont have any control over what happens to the wildlife?
I personally think that they are currently doing a good job with the elk herd by issueing more tags by way of the late seasons. People still have a chance at 350+ bulls on most LE units and the draw odds are starting to come down. So theres a big pat on the back for the current state of the elk herd.But some will disagree and say they've ruined the elk, thats their opinion.
But lets not pretend that Utahs deer herd deserves any compliments.
What are the DWR responsible for if they dont have any control over what happens to the wildlife?
I personally think that they are currently doing a good job with the elk herd by issueing more tags by way of the late seasons. People still have a chance at 350+ bulls on most LE units and the draw odds are starting to come down. So theres a big pat on the back for the current state of the elk herd.But some will disagree and say they've ruined the elk, thats their opinion.
But lets not pretend that Utahs deer herd deserves any compliments.
T
TheElitehornhunter
Guest
>Elite,
> What are the DWR responsible
>for if they dont have
>any control over what happens
>to the wildlife?
The DWR is suppose to enforce wildlife laws, collecting data, give recommendations when decisions are being made just to name a few.
Brutus, you should be blaming the Wildlife Board and SFW for their stupidity.
We also cannot control the weather and neither can the DWR.
> What are the DWR responsible
>for if they dont have
>any control over what happens
>to the wildlife?
The DWR is suppose to enforce wildlife laws, collecting data, give recommendations when decisions are being made just to name a few.
Brutus, you should be blaming the Wildlife Board and SFW for their stupidity.
We also cannot control the weather and neither can the DWR.
I hear ignorant comments like brutus' daily.
"the DWR should step down", "we should all boycott the DWR and not buy a tag" "I hope the state lets us hunt more than 3 days this year"
I can't take it any more.It is time the real monsters(SFW / Wildlife board) take the heat they created with all ther very selfish ideas and schemes.
Its time to educate passionate hunters how the system realy works. The time has come for those people who are taking our opportunity away ( SFW/Wildlife Board) to be held to the fire. How do we replace these people on the board who are taking financial hand outs from SFW and voting in a very bias manner.Elite and SWbuckmaster what can we do to combat from our point of view which I feel is the majority.We need a aliance formed that is not a buisness and will fight for our right to hunt every year. The DWR should have final say in every issue involving our wildlife but they don't. I wish they did . At least they base their decions on whats best for the wildlife in the long run instead of coming up with these crazy ideas to benefit the wealthy lazy hunter.
"the DWR should step down", "we should all boycott the DWR and not buy a tag" "I hope the state lets us hunt more than 3 days this year"
I can't take it any more.It is time the real monsters(SFW / Wildlife board) take the heat they created with all ther very selfish ideas and schemes.
Its time to educate passionate hunters how the system realy works. The time has come for those people who are taking our opportunity away ( SFW/Wildlife Board) to be held to the fire. How do we replace these people on the board who are taking financial hand outs from SFW and voting in a very bias manner.Elite and SWbuckmaster what can we do to combat from our point of view which I feel is the majority.We need a aliance formed that is not a buisness and will fight for our right to hunt every year. The DWR should have final say in every issue involving our wildlife but they don't. I wish they did . At least they base their decions on whats best for the wildlife in the long run instead of coming up with these crazy ideas to benefit the wealthy lazy hunter.
B
brutus
Guest
Cache, those are some pretty serious charges you put out there. Got any facts to back your bribary clame?
Hope yer little club works out. Maybe you can get fishon to be president.
Hope yer little club works out. Maybe you can get fishon to be president.
F
FlyingJOutfitters
Guest
Brutus,
You are a dipstick. Ever been to a Rac or Board meeting. The outcome is predetermined. You "kids" are funny. I saw the writing on the wall way back in the early 90's so did some really good men who I assume play table tennis or something because they damn sure don't spend money hunting in Utah. I challenge any man or women over the(verifiable)
age of let's say 40 to counter my comments. You had to be there in the beginning...SFW was for the "average Joe"...do you believe that is the case now? Just curious?
George McQuiston
www.flyingJoutfitters.com
You are a dipstick. Ever been to a Rac or Board meeting. The outcome is predetermined. You "kids" are funny. I saw the writing on the wall way back in the early 90's so did some really good men who I assume play table tennis or something because they damn sure don't spend money hunting in Utah. I challenge any man or women over the(verifiable)
age of let's say 40 to counter my comments. You had to be there in the beginning...SFW was for the "average Joe"...do you believe that is the case now? Just curious?
George McQuiston
www.flyingJoutfitters.com
F
FlyingJOutfitters
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-10 AT 09:43PM (MST)[p]I think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances.
Meaning we need to change the RAC and BOARD process. These other guys are civil servants counting the days to retirement. Do you really expect performance?
I got a money saving idea. Why don't we just change DWR to SFW and adopt their logo and save a lot of money and time?
George McQuiston
www.flyingJoutfitters.com
Meaning we need to change the RAC and BOARD process. These other guys are civil servants counting the days to retirement. Do you really expect performance?
I got a money saving idea. Why don't we just change DWR to SFW and adopt their logo and save a lot of money and time?
George McQuiston
www.flyingJoutfitters.com
B
brutus
Guest
Been to plenty rac meetings and some have been predetermined IMO. I think the southern rac has been pretty motivated to try and fix our declining deer herd problems. Alot of the guys on their are quite knowlegable and are over 40. I agreed with most all of what the southern racs recamendations were. I'm not 60 but i'm wise enough to talk to as many ranchers and hunters as possible that know what the 60's through the 80's were like and the things that affected mule deer numbers.
BTW why dont your freinds hunt in Utah anymore?
Not sure what it is your trying to say to me except your older and wiser and dont think the SFW supports average joes anymore. Do really think deer hunting would be better if their were no SFW's,MDF's,RMEF's? My guess is it would be about the same it is now. Declining deer herd and no answers as to why their declining.
BTW why dont your freinds hunt in Utah anymore?
Not sure what it is your trying to say to me except your older and wiser and dont think the SFW supports average joes anymore. Do really think deer hunting would be better if their were no SFW's,MDF's,RMEF's? My guess is it would be about the same it is now. Declining deer herd and no answers as to why their declining.
S
Sidehill
Guest
Boy's Ive got to say that it is very easy to point your finger at the UDWR. But what just a minute not so fast. I believe there is defiantly room for improvement with some of there practices. However that being said I believe for the most part that there hands are tied behind there back. It is without a doubt Ultimately the WILDLIFE BOARDS decisions that are set in stone. The sad part of that is that the special intrust groups play a huge role in the outcome of there decision's.They have a very political influence on the WB. It is without a doubt that revenue from all of the conservation tags being sold that feed this fire. Don't get me wrong I think a few conservation tag's can be a good thing if the revenue from them are used properly. But that being said it is plain to see that these such tags are way out of control!! when these such things start to manipulate the outcome of our big game management strategies to create trophy class hunting throughout the state. which in part does very little to nothing to promote the overall growth and number of deer in our declining herds. IT IS WITHOUT DOUBT SOMETHING HAS GOT TO CHANGE WITH OUR RAC AND WILDLIFE BOARD PROCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PleaseDear
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,431
I am kinda sad about it.
I like both of those fellows and have had some very relaxing talks with both of them.
They got blamed for everything the public did not like but they had it shoved down their throats by the special interest lobby group (s) and the special interest WB.
So you are saying (rumored for years) that some on the WB gets a taste of that 'up to $50k' each as con-sultants?
No doubt the replacements will be hand picked and presented to the Gov as the best 2 people available.
I vote~~~~ might as well be--------
Pro/hoytme in 1 of the positions
and
2Lumpy in the other position
Give 'em a 4 year run at it....seriously.
Robb
I like both of those fellows and have had some very relaxing talks with both of them.
They got blamed for everything the public did not like but they had it shoved down their throats by the special interest lobby group (s) and the special interest WB.
So you are saying (rumored for years) that some on the WB gets a taste of that 'up to $50k' each as con-sultants?
No doubt the replacements will be hand picked and presented to the Gov as the best 2 people available.
I vote~~~~ might as well be--------
Pro/hoytme in 1 of the positions
and
2Lumpy in the other position
Give 'em a 4 year run at it....seriously.
Robb
If there is one thing I get sick of hearing about is blaming others for our own lack of success. Somehow, we expect to be able to ride around on a wheeler for a week and be able to shoot a trophy buck year in and year out. And if we can't, by hell, somebody else is responsible and heads are going to roll!
Seems as if every unsuccessful hunter blames either the DWR or predators for their woes. Fact is, the biggest factor individual success is something we ourselves control, and that is our OWN FRICKEN EFFORT! Big bucks aren't going to wander up to the road and surrender to you, most times you have to work for them.
I think it is high time a lot of you cry babies take some individual responsibility and quit blaming others for your problems. You sound like a bunch of left leaning Democrats waiting for government to step in and wipe away all your tears. Trophy bucks are not your right as a hunter, only your right to pursue them is.
Sorry to say, replacing the big game coordinator and the DWR head will not placate the the cry babies among us.
Seems as if every unsuccessful hunter blames either the DWR or predators for their woes. Fact is, the biggest factor individual success is something we ourselves control, and that is our OWN FRICKEN EFFORT! Big bucks aren't going to wander up to the road and surrender to you, most times you have to work for them.
I think it is high time a lot of you cry babies take some individual responsibility and quit blaming others for your problems. You sound like a bunch of left leaning Democrats waiting for government to step in and wipe away all your tears. Trophy bucks are not your right as a hunter, only your right to pursue them is.
Sorry to say, replacing the big game coordinator and the DWR head will not placate the the cry babies among us.
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-10 AT 09:57AM (MST)[p]Both Director Kaporowitz and Anis Aoude are stand up people in regards to their love and concern for wildlife. I believe that the director has done a great job in a tough situation. Anis always basis his recommendations on biological data. There is a huge area between what is "biologically" necessary to sustain the deer herds and what is "biologically" sustainable. (e.g. 7 bucks/100 does vs 30+ bucks/100 does) What is necessary and what is sustainable as far as habitat is concerned is and always will be the borders of the management discussion. That puts the hunter right in the middle of the discussion. Until we are able to decrease substantionaly the loss of does and fawns to predation (highway kill included) we will not see any appreciable increase in deer (or buck) numbers in the near future. In many ways the DWR can only work within a framework that limits their ability to decrease predator numbers without getting in trouble politically. Financially I do believe that they need to have the funding in order to increase predator reduction by professional gov't trappers or, ideally get a bounty placed on coyotes and cougars in the areas that would best protect deer herds and have it done by us, the hunters.
