TAKE ACTION NOW UTAH DEER HUNTERS!

2lumpy

Long Time Member
Messages
7,961
buglinbilly,

Regard you post on the "close the deer hunt" and other ACTION items.

Many, many sportsmen in Utah agree with every word you have said. It didn't have to be this way but "it is what it is" however the door has now been opened to start doing something more than what has been done about it in the past. The mule deer plans are good stuff, now that we can more specifically target them to each unit more good for the re-growth of our suffering herds can be done, without destroying those few herds that are still robust.

I believe we must begin to establish "friends of the pauns" type task forces on every unit, immediately, not wait for the agency folks to see what they want to do but get started right now. Invited DWR biologists into your "friends" circle, invited Federal agents, gov. trappers, primary landowners, bow hunters, mountain men, and rifle hunters. Include CWMU operators, your wives and girl friends, your youth.

Find out from the gov trappers what your predators are doing and what you can do to help and where and when to do it. Go over your deer habitat issues with Forest Service ad BLM agents, have then tell you what the feed situation is at. Get with the DOT people and look in what kind of highway mortality you have, where it's the worst and what they think would help fix it. Get your DWR Conservation Officer involved, find out if you can help reduce poaching and harassment activities. Look into watering systems that can carry deer through a drought. See if there would be any way to have rapid feeding programs in place if the winter requires it. Line up people that care, that can donate time and money, on short notice so your ready to move quickly if you need to feed on short notice.

Encourage the local DWR folks to lead, if they will, if they won't, then you lead. Don't get discouraged with people when they say you can't or shouldn't be meddling with deer management. As these unit by unit regulations roll out the RAC and the Wildlife Boards are going to be looking to the "friends of YOUR unit" to provide input and offer recommendations.

It's going to be different now. A RAC from one area will have no reason to want to over ride a decision made by a RAC from across the State because the units, the biology, and the hunt/harvest strategies will no longer be pushed and pulled by huge unrelated regions or by State wide decisions. Season dates, the length of the season, the kinds of weapons, the buck/doe ratios, the fawn/ratios can NOW be independent and will effect only a single herd of deer.

REMEMBER, there is no central leadership in this MOVEMENT, the hunters from each unit are going to have to rise up on their own and take control of their deer herd. The hunters in Vernal are not going to get anything out of the hunters in Cedar City. Same with the hunters in Price, don't expect much from the sportsmen in Delta. etc. etc.

If this management tool is going to grow more deer YOU have to be the one to do it. The deer can't do it without YOU and you've seen what has happened if you wait for a State agency to do it without your help.

Nobody is going to step out of the trees and save your deer, YOU have to be the one.

Call a meeting THIS WEEK, get started NOW, start with a few passionate hunters, invited the pros, push them, work with THEM and work for them, enlarge you "friends" make it happen in your back yard.

DO NOT WAIT TO SEE WHAT THE RACS AND THE BOARD AND THE DWR WILL DO, START TODAY! BECOME A FORCE FOR MULE DEER TODAY!!!!

WE CAN DO THIS!!!

DC
 
Did you paint your face blue before you typed that?
That was better than Braveheart!

+1000



Traditional >>>------->
 
Way to go DC.... Statewide CWMU'S and Henry's type management for all... Hell why listen to a biologist when you can have tag pimps
run the show....

Wow DeLoss are you serious???






Way to go DV2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
13000 Hunters gone 13000 less 2 points shot!!! Come on people. Do you really think the way we were doing things here in Utah was working? ha ha. I like this idea. We can gain these 13000 tags back with better deer numbers. Give it a few years. I agree we need to step up and help with management.
 
WW,

Pretty serious. You will notice who I suggested folks contact first and get their leadership, their knowledge and their help. It was and is the DWR biologists and the Federal agency biologist and botanists. I said, get them to lead if they will. If they won't, don't stop ad done wait, move forward.

Do not isolate the DWR biologist or the conservation officers, without a full circle task force the job will be much harder and take much longer.

WE CAN DO THIS SPORTSMEN, IT'S WORTH THE EFFORT.

DC
 
DC I have had a seat on one of these Committee's and attended several meetings on the other Committee of which I wasn't the designated Rep.

I have a pretty darn good idea of how this system will be exploited... I listened as "A Biologist" tried to explain how age class management won't work for mule deer, I watched how a Rep for a certain group held up the process until it was implemented. This theory has been tested and is a huge failure
for General Season Hunters!!!

I saw how, even though our age classes are WELL ABOVE MANAGEMENT OBJECTIVE a certain handful of groups keeps raising the bar to increase money for landowners and Conservation Tags.

This is just another system for certain groups to exploit... Congratulations, welcome to inch and dollar management of Wildlife!!!






2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
What has the past got you? A slippery slide down hill to the extinction of the mule deer! It will be a lot easier to keep track of your favorite unit now. You may have to put a little effort into your pass time now just to make sure the powers are doing their job and have a clear shot at the final goal.
 
Man it sure seems that no matter who or what a person try's to include in a project and the sicerity of what they are trying to do for mule deer going forward, some always seem to be stuck in neutral.

This is a must have in all units that are now going to be managed on an individual basis. This a great tool to have in the decision making process. It will help provide information about the different units from people that spend a great deal of time within the unit and have first hand knowledge of the what realistic goals should be for the unit and different roadblocks that will have to be addressed to obtain those goals.

I SERIOUSLY dont know why anyone would be against this. I think one of the reasons to include ranchers, biologists,farmers,blm agents,sportsmen,forest service agents,ect,ect, is you'll have different opinions and agreements and different insight into different problems as and before they arise. Then as a group you can make the best possible solutions to go forward with.

Great post 2lumpy, love your passion and respect your opinion!
 
The RAC's already have everyone of the aforementioned represented on the boards. They all have their say. Before we ever vote and/or discuss any issue that affects a particular region, we always want to know how the RAC in that region voted (sometimes though they haven't met) I belieeve that the regional RACs are in the best position to make decisions that affect them the most. I for one, have always voted to support their decision.
 
I love this post. Something positive. I would love to see a "unit captain" so to speak for each of the units in the state. That person could set up email lists, propose projects, help organize predator control ect. Even 50 people in each unit with a leader of some sort could make an huge difference. I sincerely feel that private citizens are the ones who will make the difference. We each have "Our" unit or place in the state that has great meaning to each of us. Many times we camp with our families in these places during the summer months. I think that many hunters would love the opportunity to make a difference if given the chance and if they don't get involved and don't care then I can't see a need to complain. We have many chapters of the Back Country Horsemen in Utah. They get together monthly for trail rides, do service projects and have fundraisers. This is the best chance in my opinion for Utah's mule deer going forward. Thanks for being the voice for positive change.
 
+1

If the people will lead, the leaders will follow.

Eel

it's not a 40 incher but it's closer than the last 40 incher you posted....

JB
 
Look guys I really wish you were right. I really wish I didn't have the experience I've had with the process and could find hope in going with this type of management.

Everyone has their own axe to grind and their own agenda.

I AM NO DIFFERENT.

If you think we have a North vs South Civil War now just wait
until this type of management gets a foothold.

This is going to further divide Deer Hunters like you've never seen before... What happens when the permit allocations
come around and it's determined that X unit down south can support however many Hunters and Bubba from Loa doesn't like that much competition on "HIS" Mountain???

Same argument with Bowhunters... 6500 of them go south and thats too many??? But 15,000 rifle hunters is not???

This has not one fricken thing to do with growing more deer!! Nothing!!! This has everything to do with keeping "your backyard" all for you.

What many of our rural exclusionists seem to miss is that 70% of the hunters reside along the Wasatch Front. Along with that comes THE HUGE MAJORITY OF FUNDING that will allow you to keep all of "Us" out of "Your Backyards"... Stay off my Mountain just send money right???







2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
WW,
Last time I checked all 70% of those hunters would have the same chance to draw those tags as the LOCAL SOUTHERN HILLBILLIES? If those hillbillies are lowering tag numbers it also lowers their oppurtunity not just the 70%. Please correct me if I am wrong on this!



Step 1 is always the hardest!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-10 AT 01:40PM (MST)[p]Folks, in case there is some mistake as to what our intentions are, this is about spring fawn survival and TOTAL herd growth. Nothing to do with inches of antler unless it is related to fawn survival and a healthy herd.

I'm not the least bit worried about these units all turning into trophy units, that is not the intent nor should it be. This is 100% about re-growing our deer and what ever that takes.

The RAC and the Big Game Board will have the responsibility to determine hunter numbers, weapons season, length of season etc. etc. That is where the check and balance will come from. The "friend of the UNIT" will only be that, "friends", the Board has the responsibility to set policy for the entire State and take input from all individuals and all groups.

The "friends of the Unit" will be about making sure the herd is healthy with surplus animals for hunter harvest. Don't get side tracked on antler size or hunter opportunity until you have surplus. We can fight over that piece in the future. Right now, don't let the folks distract you from what needs to be done for your deer herd.

DC
 
im with WW on this one. it sounds like a disaster. great we are now going to manage our deer herds like our once in a life time rifle rut elk shoots. I don't want to hunt in Utah every 10-20 years to shoot a 20" four point. if this state starts managing this lame little units like they do in the bookcliffs which everyone thinks sucks anyways we will have to cut tags down to around 20,000 total. Its not worth it it imho and also has nothing to do with increasing the deer herd. I'm sory but facts are facts.

show me a plan that will increase the does and ill be 100% behind it. show me a lame azz plan that wants to cut the shizz out of the tags so a few select can hunt and im going to have to argue against it.

4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
SW,
What plan are you talking about? The one you assume is going into affect in years to come? You said it yourself big bucks brought you back! The rest of us cared the 9 years you took off. We will continue to care regarless of antler size! You guys are saying you are unwill to give support on an indivual basis is that what I should take from this?

Step 1 is always the hardest!
 
Every once in awhile you get a glimpse of what drives WW and his motives. It all comes back to he feels like he got the shaft cause he feels like he wont be able to hunt down south every year. It seems the "eliteist" from up north are more worried about hunting us simpltons backyard here in the south. I'd rather be reffered to as bubba than a harvard scholar.

News flash WW, were all residents of utah wether we are hillbillies from the south or eliteist's from the north. Sounds like you'd be the one divideing instead of uniting. Thats your problem to work out. Besides I dont know why youd want people to know that you were anywhere near us bottom feeders here in the south.
 
>SW,
>What plan are you talking about?
the same plans that turned our elk into once in a life time draw for a one day shoot.

>You said it yourself big bucks
>brought you back!

this is your spin on what brought me back not mine. I left because I didn't understand how to apply and mail in the Le dates on time. I didn't want to choose to hunt with a weapon I wanted to hunt with all of my weapons. I just didn't want to hassle with the whole confusing system. I didn't have the family support back then like I do now. I came back to hunting because I settled down, had a family, grew up, quit chasing women, quit drinking, quit raising hell. Seeing one big buck an a hike was just an after thought.

>The rest of us cared the
>9 years you took off.
> We will continue to
>care regarless of antler size!

so this means I dont care whats going on now? this means I dont care to see my deer hunting turn into a once in a life time trophy hunt like our elk?

> You guys are saying
>you are unwill to give
>support on an indivual basis
>is that what I should
>take from this?


no





4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 
2lumpy
Although I a plod your effort this sounds like an even bigger mess in the brewen. Something like this would only further complicate important management strategies both biologically and socially.

This is the sort of thing that starts for the wright reason's and ends up turning into nothing more then a bunch of greedy goon's that think they now whats best for everyone and everything no matter what the consequences or actions !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes public input is a very good thing and needs to be herd louder!
however when it comes to ultimate decision's benefiting both big game herd's and hunter's I feel there needs to be a balance. Which should be drawn by the DWR without so many influencing interest's involved for certain people's own agendas.
 
DC I believe that is your intent and don't question why you are in this...

That being said we've just built the perfect storm for those that want extreme limits and high success rates. This plan and these committee's will be over run with this mentality just exactly like the Elk Committee was and the Mule Deer Committee tried to be.

I'd be in favor of bringing back the Statewide Mule Deer Committee and getting this hashed out for the next 5 years.
I'd make sure you had plenty of time to plead your case.

What you are creating is OBAMACARE... Just get it passed and hope for the best... WELL DC OVER 70% Disagree..

Just like OBAMACARE people, ESPECIALLY OVER 70%, will have plenty to say.







2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
First off it's SIMPLETON!!!

BRUTUS I've hunted south of I-70 once in the last 15 years.

I'm in this because I see exactly what is going to happen and the trophy mentality that has now made our General Season OPPORTUNITY HUNT about inches and dividing weapon types.

Who ended AR-301?? Who ended Statewide Archery?? Who took 13,000
hunters off the mountain??? Do you notice a trend here???



2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
SideHill,

We've watched for 35 years while our deer have gone from 600,000 +/- to 300,000 +/-.

We can watch while deer decline further or we can help DWR turn the trend around and re-build the herds. Some sportsmen will become proactive, some will not. No one is going to force anyone to do anything.

The checks and balance will be at the RACs and through the Wildlife Board. "Fiends of your Unit" can and should be forced on recommendations that will help the herds grow large, lets focus on over all growth, maybe everyone can't grow at he same time but thet can all grow and coordinating the strategies will be a challenge as we start but we'll get better at it as we go, there are professional in other States that help guide us through the process, we will us any resource we have to help these deer.

Thanks for your interest Sidehill, get involved and see what we can do for deer and hunters.

DC
 
DC How about the Statewide Deer Committee idea??? Here is your chance to gain broad support on this...

Why not include everybody on this not just SFW and the Wildlife Board???

Things are going to be quite a bit different in 6 months..

You've got support from exactly ONE Sportsman's Group ONE!! MDF, BOU, UBA, and if the RMEF would ever take a stand, they would be in opposition as well.

Over 70% of Utah's hunters don't approve, were the land agencies contacted??? How about Farmers??? CWMU's??? Legislature???

None of these people or groups like what went down, my phone and e mail haven't quit since the WB Meeting.

LUMPY I'm offering up a compromise at this time... Here is your chance to un jam all these people and groups you left out.

Like I said 6 months from now it's going to be a totally different landscape












2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Sorry for the spelling WW but guess you got the point. I am from the south after all. All i've heard from people down here is we are all willing to wait a few years for a better quality tag. Not sure why your complaining about something you've got no stake in. I've never hunted up north and you,ve never heard me suggest to any of you up there how you should do things. I dont care if your hunting up their sucks or if its great. I would have been fine leaving central and northern in regions.

Why do you care what happens in the southern regions if you dont hunt them? Maybe thats were their will still be a few tags and they'll cut a bunch from your neck of the woods?
 
WW.

Give anyone you'd like my e-mail. Name and address are in the phone book.

Let me repeat this again, even though you already know. There is no leadership here, no head to lop off or individual or organization that has contacted or is contacting anyone in an orderly way. For some reason you are sure it was and is SFW, sorry, blame them if it make you feel better, they are just like everyone else that came to the microphone, they came on there own, they weren't and aren't leading the effort, no one or is leading this effort. It got legs on it's own and the effort will be successful on it's own because shutting me up or discouraging me or anyone else isn't going to keep others from pressing forward.

I do not know the people who get on this forum with the exception of my son and cannonball who lives up the street. Don Peay, who checks i on occasion is someone I know as you know him, from a distance. The rest I wouldn't know if they walked through my door. They aren't taking direction from me or anyone else. What they do or what they say, they do on their own. Your getting my talking points in the same way anyone else is, off the MM forum.

I say what I think people should be doing if they want to grow our deer herds, I won't even know if anyone does anything or not.

Regarding the Farm Bureau, the CWMU operators, the hunting guides, hunting organizations, the legislators are all people that sportsmen should start to communicate with, I have no quarrel with that, in fact those are folks that should be added to the list, in my opinion. Hell yes, I've talked to my legislators, so should everybody else, be sure and tell them what's happened to the best mule deer in North America in the last 35 years.

I hope things are different in six months, I hope we begin to more clearly see how unit by unit mule deer management is implemented for the betterment of our deer. In the mean time, I'd suggest folks get moving, why wait six months?

DC
 
DC Thanks for your passion and honestly giving a hoot about mule deer.

Unfortunately you don't understand the point I am trying to convey.

You and Cody have a Happy New Year.













2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
BRUTUS my friend, I'm just gonna wish you and yours a Happy and prosperous New Year.

Good Luck





2010 TOTALS
P.E.T.A. = 0 HUNTERS GONE
UTAH WILDLIFE BOARD = 13,000 HUNTERS GONE
 
Can everyone get off the we are never going to get to hunt again bs. they are cutting tags by 7% in new plan. Maybe if and area has a bad winter they will have to cut more tags but they should do that anyway. This thing has been beat to death.
 
WW

Thank you for understanding Gordy. I do understand where you're coming from. I am passionate about mule deer but this really is about hunting mule deer. 300,000 deer are tons if all we want to do is spend a few days a year out looking at them and enjoying them but I am like you, I want to hunt them and I want my grandkids to have them to hunt as well. For me at least, this isn't just about having deer, its about having a surplus of deer so Tony's children, Cody's children, Brutus children and hoytme's children, googfy's chilren, Don Peay's children, and Miles Maretti's grandchildren all get to hunt general season deer. As often as the resource can provide them.

I believe that is what you want too. I do. We all love to hunt. That's why we believe we need to get this headed in the other direction.

Truthful, at my age, it's over for me. Best case, I might get another mule deer hunt or two but at age 63 lets be realistic, what every good comes out of this will happen after I've hung up my spurs. At the very least, I can look in the mirror and know I tried.

Hope the New Year brings the best to you and your family too.

DeLoss
 
>Can everyone get off the we
>are never going to get
>to hunt again bs. they
>are cutting tags by 7%
>in new plan. Maybe if
>and area has a bad
>winter they will have to
>cut more tags but they
>should do that anyway. This
>thing has been beat to
>death.


14%
 
I like optimistic opinion and attitude 'theshineing'... But how do you know we will ever get those 13,000 tags back...?? I'm not necessarily saying we need them back- but I honestly don't think they will ever come back...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
Lumpy, your son asked I come over and read this thread. First, I want to thank you for your efforts. Second, I want to applaud you for your willingness to get in and get your hands dirty instead of sitting on the sidelines like far too many sportsmen are content to do. Third, I have to admit I tend to agree with Gordy on this. I have complete confidence your intentions are sincere and just, but I can tell you from first hand experience that what you are suggesting will play right into the hands of those who I believe will bastardize the whole deal. Yes, we MUST get more hunters/sportsmen involved and the ground level, but I am 100% convinced the system in place is deeply flawed and deeply corrupted. Until the process is fixed or rehauled, everything else will be futile, IMHO. You can have all the data in the world, have the full blessing of the DWR, and have 70+% of the hunters in your corner, and it won't mean jack if ONE group opposes it and tells the WB where to stand. Myself and Gordy have witnessed this first hand far too many times to leave even a shred of doubt.

Your intentions are grand, but I hope you will consider joining with us as we fix/amend the process, then and only then will real progress to healthier herds be possible.

"Manage wildlife WITH hunters, not FOR hunters."
 
I echo hoytme's statments. If I hadn't seen what he said in his statement first hand I would still be a huge SFW supporter like I was in the beginning.

I used to have the philosophy if your not for hunters your against hunters. I now think hunters are their own worst enemy. Its sad its gotten this bad.


4a7d1f93337c7fd7.jpg


The harder you work the luckier you get!!
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom