Blown away!

B

boomer22

Guest
This will probably start a fight but I was AMAZED at the expo. I thought it was funny to see all the "long distance" rifle stuff there! Are you kidding me that we are advertising 1000 yard plus shots??? And people were gobbling it up! Really where is the sanity?? Next year I'm thinking of videoing and setting up a "100 yard plus" archery booth! Or am I just not up with the times?
 
Its the next generation of shooting sports. We'll also end up with fewer trophy animals, fewer tags issued = less opportunity, higher license fees, and god knows what else. I am no fan of long range big game hunting and feel more rules will be coming limiting the firearm and accessories on the firearm and maybe even other tools in the field. I also feel this will likely be a necessity for the long term preservation of the sport.
 
Gotta agree with you 100%! IMHO it's not hunting, just shooting, and I don't think it's ethical on animals that can move and be wounded at those kind of distances! I can see a lot of fun shooting at targets at those distances, but interaction with the animal to at least some extent is what I call hunting and shooting animals at those distances does not make me happy with all the variables involved that can lead to crippling of wildlife.
 
Might just be a slight connection to the many posts here in the past year asking for help in locating wounded and lost animals.
 
Big John I wish I would've known you were coming back that early and I would've been all over it!
 
If they could only make a long range shotgun. It would make waterfowl hunting better. And I dont see anything wrong with 200 yard archery shots.
 
Here we go again! New recruits for the "MM ethics police department"


"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
Have you seen the show "Long Range Pursuits"
This show is dedicated to long range hunting.
I wonder, if they luck up on an animal under 100 yards
do they run the other way because its too close?
Gimme a break.
This stuff is a joke, just another tool for the antis
and we're too caught up in the arrogance of it to realize.
Just like in so many freedoms in life, a few are
going to screw it up for the rest of us.
 
your just an old fart!! I mean here I sit reading this on my apple IIe, drinking my new coke, checking the time on my Swatch. My pet rock thinks long range shooting is awesome!! I am hoping to get a video tape of this long range stuff for the beta max.

Just think, soon you will be able to hunt from your home. You can send out you robot with a gun and watch via satelite. You laser guided bullet will be on target every time. And don't think about calling this not hunting, your just old man!!!
 
Theres no doubt that we have guns bows and muzzys that will shoot extreme long distance s and I don't have a problem with people who practice constantly and can make those type shots ethically. But for me and takin my son hunting its more about the hunt. The day the surroundings ,sites,smells,noises,winds,blown opportunities,stalks,and that's the rewards. Getting a nice animal and possible trophy that s just the bonus
I like to practice on coyote s out some pretty good distances and been pretty successful but I feel a lot better about closing the distance on deer and elk
 
I'm not here to become the "ethics police". One persons ethics can be completely different than the next. If you shoot long range and feel good about it, good for you. I just don't think the commercialization of shooting that far is going to be good for game animals as a whole. I've been up to the rifle golf with the old man, and it was fun, to try and hit those long targets. I can see why some people get into it. But I can just see where this will go. I shot mine at 1012 yards. Then being like all of us competitive guys, his buddy has to go out and try it at 1100.
 
In 1959, the first year my Grandfather took me to Colorado, the term "four wheel drive", was reserved for a few Jeep variations and the old Dodge Power Wagon.

A rifle with a scope on it was super rare. You should have heard the "old" open sight guys squeal!

Marine green surplus clothing was the best "camo" available. Damn few had any of that either.

Wool was the ONLY cold weather clothing. Down was for rich guys sleeping bags.

You see where all this went.....it's called progress and simply because YOU don't do it, or use it, won't change a thing. It's the way the world works.

Get over it and do what YOU want.

Raggin' on somebody else won't alter anything.

The "anti" people are going to be on us regardless, you can't change that either.


"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
Considering some of the prices they were asking, I highly doubt they will be selling a ton of rifles to the average joe. Nevertheless, longrange is gaining some serious momentum.
 
I was the high bidder at a SFW banquet here in New Mexico on a Huskemaw Scope and the shooting school in Cody, Wyoming last June. We shot for two days at ranges up to 1,000 yards. The guns and scopes are capable of extreme distances. There was a writer from Field and Stream there taking part and he was having a ball! He was going to write an article on long range hunting. I personally wouldn't shoot 1,000 yards but with lot's of practice it can be done. Everyone in the class could hit a 3 foot target at 1,000 9 out of ten times by the end of the class. I don't force my point of view on anyone, but the long range gun I shoot came in handy on a couse deer buck at 475 yards 10 minutes before sundown this year. I shoot almost every friday at the shooting range in Gallup. I shoot 200-500 yards and I feel more than confident at that range. I would say it's up to the individual if they want to do it or not! It's not a bad thing in my opinion! I will say that we were instructed to aim for high shoulder shots and to never shoot extreme distances on windy days. Do it if you want to, don't bash the guys that are able to do it!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-11 AT 01:53PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-11 AT 01:44?PM (MST)

it would be so interesting to know what the future holds say 25 years from now. i would bet there will be cartrides that will make the .30-378 weatherby, and . 338 lapua look like a .243 win. holding 150 grains of reloader 25 under a 168 grain titanium core balistic tip with a muzzle velocity of 4300 f.p.s.

maybe they will have a primative weapon season for the .30-06 class of cartrides.

the 500 yard plus shooting ? i do not support it there are to many variables to concider. if you aren't shooting off a bench rest and the animal isn't hobbled it is risky at best. are we too lazy to stalk now ?
 
I'm "on the fence" on this one. I'm old school but can see where progress is a good thing. (I like big guns and big scopes sometimes too)

There are a few guys out there who really can shoot long range but it's not as easy as dial and shoot. The little thing called "variable wind" will never allow accurate shots at extreme range except for the highly skilled few (5%-).

If you guys (whom ever you are) fall into the highly skilled class then more power to you. For me, I'll sneek a little closer.

Most rifle/scopes are sold to people looking for the magic pill instead of honed hunting skills.

Just my 2 cents worth

Zeke
 
+1 Zeke

You said it perfectly. There are people out there that can make long range shots. But there are a lot more people out there that can't. I have taken some shots at (TARGETS) out to 1000 yards with a .308 with a 20 mile per hour cross wind. You had to compensate five feet. I tried but I was off on every shot. So for now I will try to get inside four hundred yards. Preferably 200. Cause in my book 400 is still a long shot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-11 AT 06:30PM (MST)[p]The real problem with this issue is the same with golfers, baseball players, football players, and most want to be's???

LOFT....

Lack Of F'ing Talent................
 
Kingfish, you hit the nail on the head. They show kids shooting these distances and they say how 'easy' it is. To me the hard part of hunting is actually gettin in close. 90% of my animals are killed atat 40 yards or less. I think I've only killed a couple of animals past 100 yards. Getting well within the comfort zone of a monster muley, up close and personal, to me, that is where true talent becomes evident. Are you a hunter or are you a shooter?
 
I can see what your saying Kingfish. Down here in coues country it seems like everyone is getting into long range shooting and I can see why.

During the first 3 days of my coues hunt this year I got within 600 yards 4 different occasions on some big ol bucks but that was as close as I could get before they ditched me. By the last day I was convinced I was going to buy me one of those long range rifles so that next year these bucks won't be getting away from that easily.

Well that plan didn't last very long because on the last evening of my hunt I shot a buck at a mere 300 yards but missed twice before hitting him. After that I realized I will never buy a long range rifle because I just can't shoot. Plan and simple I suck at shooting. If it wasn't for me missing this buck on the first 2 shots I would have probably stuck with my plan and bought a LR rifle. I never thought I would be thankful a miss a deer but I'm glad I did.

Unfortunately I know of three guys that plan on getting long range rifles by the start of the next hunting season thinking that once they get these rifles they'll be able to get more and bigger deer. Here's the kicker all three of them missed deer this past season all within 250 yards. No telling how many other guys out there just like these guys thinking if they get one of these LR rifles it will magically turn them into a great marksman.
 
Define hunting.
Is hunting stalking an animal to get as close to the animal as you can or is hunting getting close enough to the animal to make a shot you are comfortable taking. How many of you have killed an animal at 300 yards because you were pretty sure you could kill it at that distance instead of actually trying to get closer? Long range hunting is no different we are just extending the range at which we feel we can make the killing shot. I personally have not killed an animal farther than 450 yards and that was before I set up a long range gun. If you would like some real world shooting challenge out to 1000 yards check out Spirit Ridge Rifle Golf just west of Tremonton, Utah. They have a classic course for rifles without turrets and a masters course for rifles with turrets. It will be an eye opener for you if you haven't shot long range before.

[http://www.spiritridgeriflegolf.com/]
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-11 AT 08:44AM (MST)[p]We noticed the same thing and commented on it-- quite a few long-range suppliers.

Todd Black wrote a great article in the this month's MDF issue. It is worth the read.

Yes, it might be great for us to kill animals at long range that may not have been killed in years past. We can go home with antlers in the truck and show photos on the web. But is it good for the resource? Is it good to have killed a smart old buck who used every bit of instinct he had, but couldn't detect danger at 800 yards? At some point in time, when we become too proficient in killing the animal, we will loose. We will loose the opportunity to hunt and we will loose the animals to chase. I think we are already there in some areas.
 
While I don't support long range shooting, I understand that there are guys out there that can make an 800-1000 yd shot just as easy as the average makes a 200 yd shot. I'm Okay with those guys. I still don't think its fair to the animal but at least those guys have enough respect for their quarry to be absolutely lethal at the distances.

What concerns me is the guys who hear about these 1000 yd shots made by these expert shooters, then try those shots with grandpa's 30-06 without any practice.
Its just like the guys who hear about a 70 yard bow shot, them attempt one because it might be impossible to stalk closer for whatever reason.

Respect your quarry, know your weapon, and its limitations
 
I think I'll just fire from 18,000 ft.

1737drone.jpg
 
Long Range Hunting and Trail Cams will be the demise of the mule deer and their numbers. Trail Cams should all be taken down starting Aug 1st. Good Hell give them a chance to survive.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-11 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]this got me thinking safety. how many guys are you shooting over with these 1000 yard shots ? i can see it on private land but if some dild* shoots over me at 700+ and misses or cripples a buck i am trying to get within 300 yards off his arse better be gone before i get to him. i can see snipping whistlepigs, 'chucks, 'yotes but i am not sold on this long range stuff maybe if you have a bench in the back of your truck i guess. i shot a buck year before last at 355. it took me several minutes to find a suitable rest and get dead steady as there was a very stiff cross wind. put my pack on a lava rock finnaly. my tripod was blowing like crazy. in this instance i couldn't get closer as there was no way to bridge the gap without being seen.
couldn't immagine holding on that buck at 800 yards.
 
Plenty of people can't shoot at 300 yards, myself included. This is a big reason why I switched over to archery tackle. I'm much more accurate with broadheads at 50 yards than I am with my rifle past 250 yards. Maybe its the gun I don't know, but no matter what you are shooting, its about proficiency with your weapon to be confident that you can cleanly kill what you are shooting at. If you aren't doing that you are an unethical hunter bottom line. Sadly, there's lots of unethical behavior in all aspects of society, this is just a symptom in our little corner of the world.
Pass on ethical hunting to the next generation, respect the game by not flingin lead or arrows at distances you are not accurate at no matter what the equipment.
 
WAA WAA WAA! What a bunch of crybabies! Not every hunter that has a longe range rifle try's a shot at a 1000 yds and not every bowhunter that has seven+ pins try's shots at deer at 70+ yds! If someone wants to learn how to shoot at longe ranges it will make him or her a better shot at 200-300 yds. Good hell some of you act like just cause someone has an expensive longe range rifle they automaticaly stop at 1000 yds and start launchin bullets. Just cause someone uses a trailcam or a longe range rifle doesnt mean its a done deal. I've seen plenty of pics of big muleys from a trailcam but never seen him on the ground, just like i've seen muleys from a mile away and never saw them again. Maybe we should go back to huntin with flippers and spears then we wouldnt have any wounded deer RIGHT!
 
Oh well, another thing to cause controversy - we just keep finding new and more effective ways to take advantage over the animal we are pursuing - don't want any bonehead to say lets go back to spears and rocks, that is the kind of a lame response I would expect to hear from those that want to shoot 1000 yards, hell most folks are not effective at 300 yards - I can only say that you had not better not start lobbing shells over me when I am stalking for a close shot - No wonder PETA and the rest of the anti's think we are a bunch of squarrel heads.

Wildsage
 
HITTING A 3 FOOT TARGET AT 1000 YARDS ????? Are you seriously saying that is good enough to attempt on an animal? Sheesh, whatever happened to closing the distance on an animal? I have heard hunters, I mean shooters, say "we couldn't get any closer, so we HAD to take the 1000 yard shot". Part of hunting is backing out of certain situations and trying a different approach. And I've heard the arguments about progress and blah, blah, blah, but seriously there has to be a limit to what we consider hunting and what is simply killing. And I don't want to hear that if you have the ability and practice why not take shots like that. Hey I have an idea, why not practice some woodsman-ship, like stalking, reading the wind etc., oh sounds like too much work.
 
Long range has it's place but also has its limits. If you shoot a coues deer at 750 yards will you be able to find the carcass when you get there? I know it can take hours to get to your animal if you do find it but will it be worth eating even if you don't shoot it in the guts?

A lot of people can shoot long range just like a lot of people can guzzle a 12 pack of bud and drive home. There will be restrictions on this because it will get abused so let's not be surprised when it happens.
 
This is whats wrong with america today, the whining crybabies cry loud enough and long enough to get more and more restrictions on just about everything. Put restrictions on everyone to bring the few who do learn how to shoot a rifle down to the lowest level. Freedom to have the right to choose for ourselves what is ethical is america, not having someone decide for me.

Good hell should we just get rid of guns cause some retard used one to shoot up a campus or a mall?

I still trust most people will make the right decision on what they feel is a comfortable range for them.

NOT EVERYONE THAT HAS A LONGE RANGE RIFLE TAKES BAD SHOTS!
 
Brutus
Don't get your panties in a wad. You're the only one who's crying bro.
I don't think that most hunters want additional restrictions either.
The discussion was about the explosion of LR Rifles, not restricting them.
Maybe you're the guy who CAN dope the wind, dial, breath,press etc and get 'er done at great distances. Good for you.
I've shot a ton of TARGETS at long range (750-1000). The wind is the killer especially when it's variable. I won't shoot at animals at those ranges..... but that's me, not you.

What do you define as YOUR long range?

Keep up the passion bro. I have no intentions of telling YOU what to do.

Zeke
 
I practice long range shooting on end and i'm with you that the wind is your big killer on hitting your mark. I never take a shot at an animal that I dont know I can make but what upsets me is when people that cant shoot assume that the majority of hunters that hunt with a long range rifle automaticaly take bad shots and wound animals and arent ethical. I seriously think most hunters will get as close as they can to insure a clean kill. I know i'd take a 100 yd shot allday over a 500 yd shot.

BTW my defintion of long range is 400-700. Thats were i,m comfortable at with calm wind shootin off a dead rest. But I practice out further.

Sorry bout gettin so butt hurt but when someone says restictions and make laws against something cause not everyone can do it, it gets my blood boiling.
 
We're on the same page bro. And at about the same skill/comfort level too.

I also think that a bunch of people COULD shoot at a little bit longer ranges IF they practiced a TON and had the proper rifle scope combo.

To each their own.

I still find it interesting that MOST long range rifles are being sold as "range, dial, shoot". They leave off the fact that practice IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR!

Best to all and good luck with the drawings. Christmas is about here (tag season)!

Zeke
 
Personally I think that anyone who cant kill a big buck or bull with a longbow inside of 10 yards is just not that good of a hunter. A longbow is my 1st choice to hunt with and I just cant understand how anyone would need to be able to shoot over 30 yards on any hunt. Also I cant understand why anyone would use a site on a bow - too lazy to spend the time to learn to shoot a real bow or lack of skill I guess..

As for long ranges rifles I would rather see someone with the tools who spent the time at the range shooting 500+ yards rather than the tards i run into who find no problem huckin 20 shells at 400 - 600 with only a 4x scope to guide their madness....
 
If you are too damm lazy to get closer than 1000 yards than you are probably too damm lazy to see if you wounded the animal -- I don't think we have to worry about more regulations or restrictions, we are our on worst enemy.

Wildsage
 
>This is whats wrong with america
>today, the whining crybabies cry
>loud enough and long enough
>to get more and more
>restrictions on just about everything.
>Put restrictions on everyone to
>bring the few who do
>learn how to shoot a
>rifle down to the lowest
>level. Freedom to have the
>right to choose for ourselves
>what is ethical is america,
>not having someone decide for
>me.
>
>Good hell should we just get
>rid of guns cause some
>retard used one to shoot
>up a campus or a
>mall?
>
>I still trust most people will
>make the right decision on
>what they feel is a
>comfortable range for them.
>
>NOT EVERYONE THAT HAS A LONGE
>RANGE RIFLE TAKES BAD SHOTS!
>


Sorry to make an example out of your post but this is a prime example how most(not all) long range shooters defend long range hunting. The attitude of "you can't tell me how to hunt" sorry to break the news to you guys but your already being told where when and HOW to hunt. Can you use a spotlight to go out at night and shoot a buck? No... Well why not?? Because your being told HOW to hunt. Can you go out and shoot a big ol bull elk even if you don't have a tag? Nope once again we're being told HOW to hunt. This attitude of "you can't tell me how to hunt" is total BS! We are all told how to hunt if we weren't then there wouldn't be any animals left to hunt and therefor no hunting at all.

Here's another one of my favorite comebacks long range hunters use "you guys are just jealous cause you can't do it." Once again another BS comment that means jack squat! Another good one is "I can shoot better at 700 yards then most guys can at 300 yards." This one is probably true for the most part. We all know that long range shooters are great shots and can make these long range shots time and time again. There will be bad shots taken year after year from both sides long range short range it doesn't matter it happens. Being able to make the shot really isn't a factor in all this.

Here's where it all boils down to and why long range hunting is bad for hunting. It's not fair chase. Bottom line! Its just not fair. It takes away an animals defenses so they are basically a defenseless animal. Another BS response to what I just said is "well we might as well be hunting with a spear and nothing else" I see the point of this comment but it's still BS and has no merit. An animal can still hear, smell and see you even if you have top of the line binos, rangefinder and camo as long as you are close enough to them. At close range they still have a chance to defend themselves but once you get out to long range distances forget it they have no chance in hell. A hunter can basically talk as loud as they want and shoot at the animal until they hit it. How is this fair to the animal?? Hell shooting an animal by spotlight is probably more fair chase then shooting one at long range.

I've been apart of numerous long range kills so I know what it's like and from experience I can tell you it's not fair chase. The hard part about all this is determining at what distance does it become unfair to the animal. 300 yards? 400 yards?? All I know is anything past 500 yards the animals are pretty much sitting ducks.
 
HunterX---Your last paragraph is the real key to this whole long range shooting/killing discussion. Where do we make the distinction that it is too far? I think it basically comes down to each person making that decision for himself and my hope is that these 1000 yard killing machines don't become a large percentage of the hunting scene because to my way of thinking, it will be just another nail in the coffin for the antis to ban our cherished sport! I really wish those two "long range killing shows" were removed from the TV networks because the more people that see them the more that may jump up and think they can do that when they shouldn't be shooting at even 200 yards!!! I would wager that the vast percentage of persons that go deer hunting every year don't shoot one box of shells compared to those who are really passionate about their sport like myself and practice as much as we can to close that distance between us and the animal we want to take and then make that one shot that is as close as possible to 100% that a humane kill will take place! We are in a period now where people have to have the fastest car, the biggest TV, the golf clubs that will hit the ball further than the next guy, and on and on and on to the point where it makes me sick!!! Can you guess that by reading some of these rants like this that I post that I'm a 63 year old purist that wishes I could go back about 30 or 40 years to the "good old days", LOL!!!
 
Hunter X.....your entire post is BS.

Remove a TV show because YOU personally don't like it....WTF? Got any interest in the Constitution?

I hate basketball! Can we remove that from TV....the players aren't exactly pillars of society and they set a poor example to our children.

I doubt I would like the "America" you might be in charge of.

By the way, when was the last time you saw a deer or elk "defend" itself from a bullet....at any distance?

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
I've had animals get spooked because the either smelt me, heard me or saw me all with in 500 yards or so but anything past 500 yards I can't recall anything paying too much attention to me. This is what I meant by the animals defense. At great distances you take their defense away from them. It's like shooting fish in a barrel or shooting a man in the back. It's Chicken Chit hunting! BTW the only defense I've seen a deer use against a bullet is when the hunter misses and the deer runs off unless of course the shot is taken past 500 yards then the deer just stands there defenseless until finally it's either hit or it gets enough rock and dirt blown up on him he finally runs off.
 
GORDON eastman made geat hunting cinema. this trash on t.v. is glorifing slob hunting for the most part. and i am unfortunatly in agrement with hunter x. the long range shows suck ! they promote slob hunting. sorry if it's on privete property i understand the long range thing. but i am 1000% against it on public land because of the danger factor. but most of the gutshooting , lets look for the deer noon tomarrow, to heck with the meat shows also should go or at the very least have a disclaimer " this is for entertainment purposes only. the actions do not dipict fair hunting practices" or something. yes, you can show anything you want i will agree, you can turn the channel. but i would argue this isn't a " game ' it is life or death. and this long range hunting on public land is going to get someone killed because 90% of the guys doing it have no buisness doing it . there are a small percentage of long range sportsmen to be sure but the other large percentage are ruining it for them . a kid imulating a steroid user in baseball could get cought doing steriods. a kid emulating a 1000 yard shot without practice could wound game or kill one of us.......
 
I'm not taking sides in this but wanted to point something out.

Go read O'connors Sheep and Sheep hunting or Alaska Yukon Tropies Won and Lost. For some reason everyone thinks that "back in the day" no one ever took long shots. These guys were shooting 800-1000 yards WITH OPEN SIGHTS. They had to have a packhorse that hauled only ammo cause they flung so much of it. They call shots and keep throwing lead. Nothing has changed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-11 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]nickman---Most of what you labeled as BS was in my post, not in the HunterX post! Just a thought, but with your tact have you and BuzzH ever thought of getting married, LOL!!! It seems like it would be a perfect match!!! Just sayin!
 
What we keep doing is raising the bar for hunting, Not everyone wants to keep raising the bar. There are some of us hunters that still want to keep hunting in the hunt. Whether we like it or not, we are impacted by those that want the latest technology to make it easier for them and more difficult for the animal. Examples of this can be seen with more hunters using 4 wheelers rather than walking, using trail cameras rather than the mystery of scouting, or the hunter, rather than stalking a buck or bull elk takes 700- 1000yd long range shots. Believe it or not, there are some of us who are not interested in trail cameras, long range rifles, four wheelers and some of the other gadgets being used but it does impact on our way of hunting. Please not that ole remark about going back to spears and rocks.

Oh and how about them food plots and the hunter sitting in the building with his coffee pot waiting for the animal to feed. Love to see those high fives after the kill - now really is that hunting???

I bet we can match our trophy rooms with most of the hightech hunters.

Wildsage
Still do it the old fashion way - scouting and walking or horseback
 
I shouldn't bother with this, but the wind is blowing this AM, and that hurts my 800 yard coyote shots.

Tact has nothing to do with my comments on this post. Tact is a political or negotiating tool and in this case I am attempting neither. Some of you guys are just plain dumb, and tact isn't a concern!

I was pointing out how ignorant the comments and suggestions posted here had become.

It is simply a "bash the other guy" post and most of you have failed to provide even a child's portion of intellect, regarding the topic.

I personally see no reason to shoot deer or elk at extended ranges. You have to go get them anyway, after you hit them, so why not go as far as you can before you shoot? I seldom go pick up varmints, so if I can even SEE them in my scope, I shoot them.

I don't care if others want to do it. That is not up to me to criticize.

I don't understand why anyone would try to dictate another persons ethics level, based on your own personal viewpoint. Bunch of Democrats!

My entire point is; Quit telling other people what they should or should not do! It is none of your business! Sitting around, painting "doom and gloom" scenarios is pointless and ignorant.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]nickman---Like I said, maybe you and BuzzH should get married!!! Since I've been on this website it seems that every decent thread where people are passing along thoughts and opinions on various topics involving our sport gets one or more posts from one or both of you like the two you have posted on this thread. We, as passionate hunters, want to see this sport kept intact and it's hard enough fighting the friggin antis without seeing hunting being changed to an "industry" like it has become. You're fooling yourself if you don't think this kind of stuff is going to be the demise of our sport sooner or later. But no, all we read is the two of you posting about how everyone else is an idiot, dumb, ignorant, and "you have failed to provide even a child's portion of intellect, regarding the topic"! Why don't the two of you grow up and have some meaningful, tactful interaction on this site with the rest of the adults instead of acting like two "know it all" little kids!!!

wildsage---Excellent post IMHO and exactly what a bunch of us have been trying to get across in our posts. Thanks!!!
 
Your right nickman at least in my posts anyways. I apologize to all the long rangers out there for the chicken chit comment and for any of my other rude comments that I might have made. Guess I got a bit carried away there. This is one of those topics that can get heated pretty quickly. I try not to sound like I'm telling others what to do. Just trying to point out why I think this long range stuff is bad for hunting. It's very tempting to get into long range hunting myself I can definitely see the allure of being able to harvest animals at these great distances. Thinking back to all the great bucks that I could have taken if I had the long range capabilities that hunters have now days. O man how tempting it is but no matter how many more big bucks I could harvest that I'd normally not be able to take deep down I still feel that it's not fair to the animals no matter how I try to justify it to myself. I'm no saint by any means when it comes to hunting I've made my fair share of stupid decisions hopefully I've learned from them. I'm not trying to ban long range hunting. I don't think that would be even possible to enforce such a thing? All I can do is hope I can help change the minds of a few hunters out there that are considering long range hunting tactics.
 
democrats?? wow that was harsher than harsh. i would rather be called a crossdresser. well if we can't have differing viewpoints. then to he** with game and fish regs lets ride in the back of our trucks swill cheep beer and lob rounds off at ridiculous ranges out of moving vehicals. WAAAA HOOOOO . couse nobody should impose there will on us good ol' boys . hey boys hold ma beer an watch this........
 
Man will always push the envelope until it gets removed from the table. History has demonstrated this on numerous instances. Buffalo hunters stripped the west of buffalo taking longer shots until they were gone. Other species have seen the same fate antelope, elk, etc. Think the success rates aren't going to impact your hunting? It's already starting to happen in many states. Tag numbers across the west are declining due to predation and hunting pressure.

No game department on earth can forecast what predation and hunting rates will do to the wildlife because it's not an exact science by any means. I know you're only filling your tags and what can that hurt, well as success rates increase opportunity declines and with that so does YOUR days afield.

Now we have suppressors going into the field to furthur eliminate the animals chances of using their senses to evade the hunter! When do we as hunters say enough's enough? I'll tell you, only at such time somebody has the wisdom to take temptation from your grasp. It's readily appearant that the hunting community is no longer able to do it, so it's going to be done for you eventually. Maybe not today or tommorrow but read my lips it's coming! I don't give a damn how far you can shoot with any weapon! Our own selfless greed will eventually bring ruin to our sport unless we wake up and see the big picure. More predators,& more success can only result in one thing....LESS HUNTING! We're not hunting a finate resource here and some of you really deep thinkers on here had better start to understand it's not just about YOUR selfless RIGHTS, It's about everybody's right's even future generations!

You guys can't have it both ways in that you can't keep having more success unless something offsets the kill ratio to enable the animals to sustain themselves. We're on a one way track and those of you that can't seem to understand this logic are very foolish. It wasn't all that long ago Deer and elk were in severe decline in Utah and through sacrifice and committment they managed to get them reestablished well this same scenario is playing out in other western states and it's not too positive a picture. Yet here we are again wacking and stacking them with alarming success and longer shots instead of actually hunting, and still clamoring for more tags!

Yet we as hunters can't seem to understand that hunting is a conservation measure and we as custodians of all our resources need to do what's in their best interest to preserve them for the future. Hunting is a sport where man and the animals pit their skills against each other and it can go either way. Shooting from the next zip code isn't hunting no matter how you want to portray yourself it's shooting and the more technical advantages you carry only serves to support that conclusion. If some of you guys get offended by someone telling you should get closer than that's good because that's exactly the point of hunting. Hunting is something that we have worked very hard to preserve in this country and many have sacrificed a lot to make it happen.... You guys with your attitudes are going against public opinion and that usually results in legislation or regulation at some point.

Yep I know if they're that dumb not to use the stuff, it's OK I got my tag! Well let's not regress when we know what's happened so many times before because we didn't have any concerns then and nobody was going to tell us what to do.....Remember the buffalo they were one of the most abundant species on this continent and a little too much shooting didn't fare well for them and since we are seeing rates of decline on many other species throughout the west... maybe it's time we look at what we're doing again and think of a few ways to actually benefit the animals we wish to hunt, instead of inflating our fragile egos by just shooting to fill that tag. Hunters will not be the demise of hunting, this new long range shooting craze on the other hand may eventually cause some issues and concerns that may give us some grief!
 
I probably will never be able to shoot more than 500 yard, because I bow hunt more than rifle hunt.

But, there are guys that can hit a paper plate at 1,000 yards almost every shot. There are guys that can't hit a 3 ft target regularly at 100 yards. Practice and skill level are two things that hunters need to be mature about and realize for themselves. If not, some old fart should let them know. I have seen abuses in every type of hunting, but have also seen some very good ethical hunters out there.

If a kid can hit a paper plate 9-10 times at 1,000 yards, it may be a more ethical shot than a kid who can't hit a paper plate at 100 yards.

I feel very comfortable shooing my bow out to 70 yards and would not hesitate to shoot at an animal at 70 yards, if the conditions are right. I practice a lot and it is not a hard shot for me. My brother, I try to not let him shoot at anything further than 40 yards...
 
My problem with it is when the azzhat says they "just couldn't get any closer!" So they were forced to take that shot...


Traditional >>>------->
 
The only difference between a "Long Range Shooter" and 99% of the rest of "hunters" is... when that monster buck is at 600 yards standing broadside, One will Range the animal, make adjustments and give it a dirt nap. The other will look in his 3-9 Pos scope, Thinks to himself, holy Sh#$ I hope this is high enough over his back. Hold on, let me clean the dust off the scope because I havent shot this rifle in 4 years. then starts flinging lead until it is out of sight. .

So tell me who the "Unethical", "Lazy Azz hat" , "Going to be the downfall of Hunting", "this is just ammo for Peta" blah blah guy is?

Lots of guys talk the talk when they sit at the computer. lets just hope you walk the walk as well.
 
they " long range guy ' could jerk the trigger and shoot the deers leg off too. just because you have a scope with turrets and a rangefinder doen't make you a " pro " and the other guy might be a better riflemen and dump the deer. expensive gear doesn't make a " pro ". just a braggert in most cases.
 
I would actually like to know what all you long range haters propose to do about it. What rules could they pass and possibly enforce to stop it? I truly don't know what you could do to stop it but if you want them to go down that road you better look at the "long range" archery guys as well. I agree that all the new technology definately puts the wildlife at a disadvantage, but where can you draw the line on what is and isn't allowed. I just don't see it happening, we'll just keep hearing people whine about it on message boards.
 
TOPGUN....your inability to comprehend the written language is amazing!

My hat is off to you for your ability to pass a hunter safety course. There are a lot of questions on that test....did you have help? Do they have a "short bus" test in your area?

Clearly, you have NOT paid attention to your own posts....especially if you are wondering why some of us have a problem with your, "I am more self righteous than you", attitude.

I would probably rather BE married to BuzzH than even be in the same room with an obnoxious azzhat, like you come off on here!

No question about it, I am an argumentative, sarcastic azz, but I refrain from dictating behaviour to others....and that is exactly what this is all about. You don't want a discussion, you want a prohibition.....where you gonna' draw the line, son?

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
If a 240 inch buck was at 800 yards and I could get to fifty I would do it in a heartbeat,but if I couldn't and had to shoot from 800 I'd take the time,do the figuring and smack him.If you think I wouldn't be happy just because it was so far of a shot you're dreaming.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 02:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 02:40?PM (MST)

i would agree the stick flippers launching arrows pointed at the sky shooting at deer 80 yards is in all actuality worse.even if you hit the animal you will have jack diddly for penitration. in idaho there is a 15 lb. weight limit for rifles. this was put into play too stop the famous 1000 yard elk shoot in central idaho. resulting in lots of wounded animals. but now with christensen arms carbon innovations this isn't the case any longer. i to most peoples surprise don't really have issue with skilled not people skilled in their own mind. but skilled marksmen taking these shot opertunities as long as it is safe. i have a moral issue with it, however it is legal and i would support them. but my feelings with the people lobbing arrows at elk like the elven people did on the walls of gondor and the village braggert that buys a 6000 $ rifle and declares himself a long range marksmen is safety and skill. if you can do it within that guideline than fine
 
well if
>we can't have differing viewpoints.
>then to he** with game
>and fish regs lets ride
>in the back of our
>trucks swill cheep beer and
>lob rounds off at ridiculous
>ranges out of moving vehicals.
>WAAAA HOOOOO . couse
>nobody should impose there will
>on us good ol' boys
>. hey boys hold ma
>beer an watch this........

So now you're a republican??
 
I think alot of you that are supporting the long range shooting are missing the point that those who do not support it are trying to make. The real issue is not where you can or cannot hit the animal, although that is of concern. The issue as I understand the discussion is that some of us think we are getting away from actual hunting to just killing. You can see that in how new technology is developed to give the hunter greater advantage. I don't really care what you do as long as it is legal and doesn't effect me, but alot of the things that have been developed in recent years does effect me as a hunter that tries to value fair chase. I have already mentioned in previous posts such things as ATV's, food plots, trail cameras, and I forget what they call the small paraplanes used to scout rather than the ole fashion way. I would think that we would try to regulate ourselves without having alot of laws developed. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you have to unless you are so bent on getting that trophy for the wall.

I always remember a neighbor that lived next to me that had his yard trashed and a lot of ole cars sitting in the front yard, he said that it was his property and he could do as he wished, the trouble with that statement is when I went to sell my house, I had to take $25000 less than I should have because of his mess - it did effect me - guess I got off the subject.

what's this republican/democrat sheet all about

Wildsage
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-11 AT 08:40PM (MST)[p]
Boskee---I really appreciated reading your well thought out post, as it is saying exactly what I'm trying to get across, but in a much better way!!!

wildsage---Thanks again for your last post because I'm not getting through to "Mr. No question about it, I am an argumentative, sarcastic azz"! Maybe you and Boskee will! It seems that "certain people" feel we can't or shouldn't offer suggestions to sway people away from things that we feel are detrimental to our sport, but that they disagree with. It's really a shame that they have such a closed mind on certain subjects and would rather just ridicule others who are sincere about keeping our sport alive! I will say again that if we don't police ourselves, whether it's turning in poachers, or speaking out on any other number of items that some of us feel are affecting our sport in a negative way, sooner or later our sport will no longer exist. The antis have already succeeded in banning lead shot for waterfowl, lead bullets in some areas, and I would ask if everyone has read the thread on this site in regards to what the Feds have now placed on the Federal Register eliminating lead shot on nuisance birds. The antis will keep chipping away and if we don't start getting serious about making our sport as positive looking to those sitting on the fence that may vote on hunting sometime in the future, we are in deep dodo! We lost dove hunting here in Michigan several years ago because the antis pushed hard enough and it was allowed to be put up for a vote by the general public. You can bet your bippy that they are now looking at what we are talking about on this thread and God knows what they will come up with next. I'm not saying that we should have restrictions on this long range issue because I don't know of any way that it could be done or enforced. I'm just saying that hunters, as a whole, should really take a look at a lot of this high tech stuff to see if it really isn't doing more harm than good to our sport. They have taken our dove hunting away, eliminated hunting with dogs, etc., as well as passed laws limiting certain bullets and shotshells, so what is next, a vote on hunting itself? That may not be as far-fetched as a lot of us would really think!!!
 
I'm thinkin there are WAY more important issues to deal with regarding hunting than high-tech gizmos and the distance at which one chooses to shoot game. Besides, the fad will die in time for most anyway. Being divided by issues such as this causes more harm than just realizing some folks do it different than you. Makes it easy for the antis once LR guys are pitted against "purists", or bowhunters against rifle guys etc. I bet all you LR haters would wake up if suddenly the gear and rifles used were banned or restricted. Wouldn't be too hard to get the old ought six after a precedence has been set. Think about that part a little. mtmuley
 
I think technology is the biggest game changer there is, its not a fad thats going to die and It has the potential to turn non hunters into anti hunters. A lot of people have strong feeling about wildlife, and the thought of killing them at a quarter mile away is an issue, and one the antis will exploit over time. Right now the majority of Americans support hunting, but that could change in a hurry, and to tell the truth, It even bothers me to hear of these animals being killed without them even having a chance.
 
What a bunch of whiny little brats. Technology moves forward thats just the way it is. Forget the spear and rock analogy don't you think this same discussion went on when bolt action rifles and scopes became fashionable, instead of the trusty old 30-30? How many of you would give up your trusty old bolt gun and scope? Get over it. Lets outlaw scopes with turrets, no lets outlaw all scopes, ya thats it, ah hell lets outlaw all scopes and bolt action rifles while we're at it. No more hunting with anything but a lever action, open sights, and longbows. You whinebags make no sense at all, just because my gun can shoot accurately out to 800 yards you're going to tell me that I can't shoot at a deer that far away because you don't think its ethical. Who gave you the right to judge how far I can shoot at a deer? I've seen guys shoot at deer at over 600 yards with 30-30's but I didn't go yell at them for doing it I just figured they had the right to hunt as they saw fit. I've packed a long range rig for two seasons now and haven't fired a shot at an animal, didn't see anything I really wanted to shoot. There's enough things to worry about in this sport that we call hunting, we don't need anybody telling us how far we can shoot at, and ethically kill an animal. Those of us that can will, and those of you that can't, don't, its as simple as that.
 
Out here in Oregon we practice long range with smaller callibers like 257 roberts,25-.06,&270.Last year my 14 year old daughter drew an antelope tag and we(my father-in-law&I)had her and my 12 year old son breaking milk jugs at 300+ yards.She shot her antelope at 400 yards in the face.Trust me over 100 yards is do-able.Im leaving out the numorous bucks & bulls I've seen my friends and myself kill at ranges similar to that.
 
Now you've done it Al, not only did your daughter shoot at an animal too far away for an ethical kill but she hit it in the face. The ethics police on this sight are going to be all over you for that one. Hope you didn't use a Berger bullet cause they'll jump you for that too.
By the way my long range gun is a 264 Win Mag, a caliber that was introduced by Winchester in 1959 as the quintesential long range caliber for western hunting. Dear God do you think that they were actually promoting long range hunting in 1959, God forbid!
Something about a 140 gr bullet with a BC of .613 going 3250 fps gives me goosebumps. You don't need a cannon to shoot long range.
 
No this is not the same conversation they had between bolt and lever action nor is it about if you can make the shot at great distance or not. Some of you guys are still missing the point here. Out of all the new technology that has came out these long range hunting tactics and equipment are the first things that truly can be considered in the realm of not fair chase. And it's not even the fact that hunters are shooting these great distances because like some of you have pointed hunters have been taking long range shoots for quite some time now. It's the fact that in the last 10 years or so for the 1st time these long range shots are being advertise as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It's not about being able to make the shot or that long range shooters are more accurate at a 1000 yards then Joe Smoe is 100 yards. It's all about fair chase. Here's something to think about. In some states it is illegal to use radios to help take big game and B&C labels this as unethical and is considered not fair chase. Basically they found it unfair for hunters to find big game and radio a guy in close enough to shoot it. Well now days instead of using a radio to get the hunter in closer you just shoot the animal from where you'd normally set up your radio lookout guy. How is this any more ethical then using radios to get closer? I'd rather see guys using radio and getting closer at least this way the deer can actually hear, see or smell the hunter that is trying to kill him.

I'm not the best with words and have a hard time explaining why I feel the way I do about long range hunting. So instead of trying to explain it I will be posting some video clips of why I feel the way I do because I didn't always think badly on long range hunting. I too fell into all the hype and thought it was freaking awesome to be able to shoot a deer at 700 to 800 yards. But year after year of actually seeing long range shots being taken I have changed my mind about long range hunting. I'll post these videos as soon as I can maybe in a week or two. I want all of you to watch these video clips with a open mind and truly ask yourself if shooting animals at these great distances is fair to the animals. Nothing else nothing more other then is it fair to the animals.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 10:02AM (MST)[p]Apex, Not to start a pissin match, but if you've never taken a LR shot on game, how are you one of those that "can"? And HunterX, I get the "point". My point is bitchin about other hunters and YOUR disapproval of their methods will tear down hunting faster than a guy interested in a LR shot. mtmuley
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 11:07AM (MST)[p]AL1273---May I ask where your 14 year old daughter was aiming when she shot that antelope in the face at 400 yards? If that's where she was told to aim, then I'll come right out and be the "ethics police" and say that you are not passing on the proper way to shoot an animal at that kind of distance. Come on, an animal the size of an antelope in the face at 400 yards ain't no GD milk jug!!!

Apex---Where did any of us that are against shooting these animals at ridiculous distances where they have no chance to use their senses say that we COULDN'T do it? As mentioned in another post. how do you know you can do it if you haven't done it yet? This is always the same crap that more than one person mentions when some say not to take head shots at any real distance and now here is the same BS on this subject. A lot of us more than likely could do it, and possibly better than those that are. The point is that we choose not to do it, have given our reasons why, and it's not because we lack the skill or whatever you want to call it to do it. What will be next? Maybe just to make it more exciting these long range killers will only attempt head shots because shooting the animal in the chest is too easy!!!
 
Muley
You're right I haven't killed an animal at long range yet, other than a 5 point buck at 450 yards many years ago, and the occasional prairie dog at 500 yards, give or take, but I've been shooting long range to a 1000 yards or so the last two years. I did shoot the best score of the year at the Spirit Ridge Rifle Golf course last year and won a nice scope doing so. Ya I know its not shooting at a live animals and you have all day to set up for the shot (sort of)but its the closest to shooting in the field I've come across. I shot 7 eagles in a row, thats first shot hits on seven kill zones on 7 animal silhouettes from about 575 yards to 900 yards, on up and down angles of 15 degrees either way. Come on lets go rifle golfing and I'll challenge you to a match and you tell me if I can and can't shoot that far accuratly. You're right its not live animals but given the right conditions and the right animal I have no qualms about taking the shot. And yes I am that picky about both.
And HunterX it is the same argument old timers had about the new fangled scopes guys were just starting to use in the 40's and 50's. I had an uncle tell me " Poor deer aint got a chance with you guys shootin at em a half a mile away." so ya its the same argument just the yardage has changed a little thats all.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 11:41AM (MST)[p]Some of you may want to think about things differently knowing that they've already done some of the things you mentioned. You see the antis have already gone before the western states to outlaw many things they feel are unethical and yes banning scopes, banning lead ammunition, eliminating forest access, and establishing more wilderness areas are all means they are working on daily to get you out of the field. How is it possible that they managed to get wolves introduced in states where ranching and hunting is a viable part of the economy yet posed a huge threat to both? Yet we can't manage to get them controlled with the residents support even though established numbers have been exceeded.

How is it that they manage to challenge water catchments in arid country and get the court in junctions to stop putting them in to ensure wildlifes survival? It's a different world from 1959, huntings not in vogue and faces challenges every day to restrict or eliminate it. It's our duty as hunters to try an minimalize the effects our endeavors may have on hunting future. Passing protective legislation is fundamental in preserving hunting future yet many western states don't have it in place.

In todays world images can be utilized very effectively to shape public opinion. The wrong message can work against us rather than for us and that's the point some of us are trying to make here. We can't bow down to them but at the same time we don't have to give them the ammunition to shape public opinion against us either. It never would have been possible to topple a world leader 20 years ago using the media but in todays world that happened so we have to be aware of just how powerful a weapon it can be. Just how popular would your 700- 1000 yard shots be in a room of sportsmen in 1959......and I seriously doubt that you'd be telling all those vets to shut their yaps because me knows you'd be sitting on your AZZ holding your jaw! They could make the shots then too but didn't because.....
 
See Al, I told ya the ethics police would chime in here any minute now to berate your daughter for shooting that antelope in the face, shame on you and your 14 year old daughter.
Actually shame on you Topgun, you werent there you have no idea what happened and how everything took place. You should praise the young shooter and welcome them into the sport not belittle them and make them feel bad because the shot wasn't perfect or up to your so called standards. Who died and made you King of the hunting ethics police?
Lets make this perfectly clear, its okay to shoot an animal at 300 yards that has no idea you are there because you have alluded his senses but its not okay to shoot an animal at 600 yards because he no longer has good enough senses to defend himself? Makes no sense to me.
 
First you have to have a brain to make sense out of ANYTHING, LOL!!! Getting kids involved in hunting and shooting is one of my big things in life since I retired in 2002 and bragging about having a kid shoot at an animal's head at 400 yards is not mine or most people's idea of the way to do things. PS: I'll hold my ethics up to yours any day booby after reading some of your tripe!!!
 
I have seen many stalks on mature animals blown at 1000 yards and beyond so to say they are defenseless at these ranges is misleading.

From a management perspective more animals could be saved by antler restrictions (and this may be bad for genetics in the long run) than will EVER be saved by shooting restrictions. Lets be honest a mature buck has a better chance of survival at 700 plus yards than a forkie has of survival at 100 or less. In other words it is easier to get inside 100 and kill a forkie than it is to get to 700 and kill a mature buck.

From an ethical standpoint to say LR hunting is the first or worst unethical thing to come along (and someone has either stated or inferred both in this thread) is RIDICULOUS! Foodplots and bait have made whitetail hunting a bit of a chipshot IMO and high fence operations are HORRIBLE from an image perspective.

I have killed animals out to 685 yards and will again regardless of detractors opinions but even though I can shoot further (out to 1000) I have held MY PERSONAL MAXIMUM to about 700 but that is MY CHOICE! I practice to 1000 and used to practice with my compound bow to 100 but only to sharpen my skill for my personal limits. I would possibly shoot at further (out to where I practice to) if I had an animal wounded and for some reason could not get closer and felt I may lose the animal if I didn't take the opportunity.

I feel most hunters will attempt to get as close as possible to the animal they want and set reasonable personal limits. Some may not and that as of now is their choice.

Advancements in optics have HUGELY changed success in the western hunting world as have trail cameras and atv's as mentioned above and LR shooting won't have any further detriment to our IMAGE than any of these and will not effect success rates any more than them either.

The reason people who are against LR hunting don't like the spear and stone analogy is because it makes sense. Hunting is about PERSONAL CHALLENGES and only YOU should say how you fulfill that as long as the law allows. If you want to be extremely handicapped do so (such as traditional archery) but don't force it on others.

Bill
 
I bow to you oh mighty King and I am not worthy to be on the same forum as you oh mighty one. Enough of this BS I'm going shooting by the way I didn't see where Al mentioned anything about having her shoot at its head thats conjecture on your part, besides I don't have a brain so what do I know. I bow out and let those of you infinately more knowledgable than I take over.
 
Any of you guys harpen against long range shooting ever think that it might actually get people more interested in not only hunting but shooting firearms in general?

I know I shoot my rifle alot more since I got interested in long range shoting than I ever thought of shooting before. Dont know bout any of you but when something excite's and encourage's more people towards shooting sports its always a plus.

So in my book its not hurting nor going to be the downfall of hunting at all. In fact it just show's you that if long range shooting is getting popular and catching on it's getting more people involved and thats a good thing!
 
Another point on the image created by this is that most non-hunters don't realize how difficult it is to get REALLY CLOSE to an animal and may see it as MORE sporting to actually shoot at a difficult distance. I am not stating this as fact as I am not a non-hunter and know very few but the ones I do know are more impressed with a long shot than a short one. As for anti-hunters and their opinion...............................

WHO CARES!!! We will never change their opinion anyways!!!

Bill
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]Apex---If you think that girl was shooting at anything other than that animals head for this guy to come on and brag about where she hit it, then you, Sir, need to wake up and smell the friggin coffee for God's sake. And don't come back here and say then that makes her a great shot either!!! If she was shooting at it's body, then the shot was terrible! If she shot at it's head, then I feel her Dad is terribly wrong for having her do it and teaching her stuff like that at such a young age!

huntindad4---I seriously doubt that what you said would hold up in an honest poll of non-hunters. How could anybody think shooting 1000 yards would be more sporting than sneaking up on an animal that uses all it's senses to survive every day of it's life at the normal short distances it would face against predators?

I also feel that anyone who thinks this long range killing is going to bring more people into our sport is probably mistaken. If it does, as far as I'm concerned, it isn't the ones I'd like to see carry on our tradition. I'm sorry if you disagree with that statement, just like you don't agree with a lot of other things we, who don't like this trend, have said. What it's probably going to do IMHO, and I think already has to a great extent, is make people who already can't hit the barn wall from inside the barn think they can go out and buy a whiz bang rifle and big adjustable scope and pop an animal that they are lucky to even find or see with the naked eye or binoculars. Cripes, a good example is the guy I met from MN on another BB and we went on an antelope hunt in Wyoming last year. He missed two book antelope the first morning and I found out he was trying to use his old Tasco 3x9 scope with black magic marker marks to shoot at 300, 400, and 500 yards like he had a fancy Huskemaw scope with adjustable turrets, LOL! Too many people nowadays, and it's people calling themselves hunters in this particular case, are looking for the EASY WAY OUT. That's just my feelings and again I'm sorry that it offends a few of you on this BB! I'm obviously opinionated and passionate when it comes to hunting because it is basically what I have lived for my whole life since I started with my Dad in 1953 at 6 years old, but at least I'll try to give honest reasons for what I say even if you scoff at them! Fair enough?
 
TOPGUN,
your entitled to your opinion as is everyone else but it seems just cause you think somthing you automaticaly think that its "honest" or the way it should be. If you think its the "easy way out" try keeping a 3" group at 500 yards. Your not only opinionated but small minded thinking your way of hunting is the best and only way. Your no better than Jim Zumbo drivin a wedge between hunters because of what they shoot. I could care less if you offend people, offending people doesnt make you some kind of maverick. It also doesnt mean your right or any better of a hunter than someone that learns how to shoot long range.

You really show your agenda of what your really about when you say that you dont want certain people to enjoy the aspects of hunting if they dont play by your rules. Sounds more like Hitler than Clinton.
 
TOPGUN said;

"huntindad4---I seriously doubt that what you said would hold up in an honest poll of non-hunters".

Doubt it all you want I am just telling you MY experience with the VERY FEW non-hunters I spend any time with, I even stated in my post that I don't hold it as complete fact.

You also asked;

"How could anybody think shooting 1000 yards would be more sporting than sneaking up on an animal that uses all it's senses to survive every day of it's life at the normal short distances it would face against predators?"

You assume NON-hunters know anything about how animals survive and elude predators and I do not in fact most Non-hunters have no idea at all how wild animals live and assume the whole battle whether for hunters or other predators is just finding the animal and then you simply shoot it and that's it. So when presented with a choice of what is harder (without ANY KNOWLEDGE of animal behavior and defenses) what are they going to think is harder a 45 yard shot or a 450 yard shot?

Most NON-HUNTERS know very little about animals or their behavior and give VERY LITTLE thought to it either. ANTI-Hunters on the other hand know a little more about them (in fact to hear them talk they know more than hunters) and give a lot of thought to the matter but once again.....

WHO CARES WHAT THE ANTIS THINK!!!! Can't change them any more than they can change us.

Bill
 
See what ya started,Boomer??LOL!!If we ban LR hunting,let's just take it to the next step and ban scopes,rangefinders,4-wheelers,trailcams,etc.Anything the "purists" think is unfair.I knew better than to chime in,but Good God.I really get tired of someone trying to shove their morality down my throat!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-11 AT 05:45PM (MST)[p]+1 Brutus
+1 Nontypical
Topgun
Shooting at the head of a big game animal at 400 yards isn't a shot that I would take, but I won't be the one jumping all over someone for doing it either. Unlike you I don't make rules for others to follow, I just enjoy hunting any way I can and don't force my oppinions on how to be ethical hunters on others. Oh by the way I just got back from shooting a 12" gong at 965 yards with my 264 and smacked it 4 times in a row. You see unlike some of you I actually practice at the ranges I shoot so that when the time comes, in the field, I will actually feel confident in the shot that I take. But then I'm just a brain dead unethical peace of crap according to you. Oh, and by the way, I'm just 7 years younger than you so I've been around the block a time or two.
 
People are just expressing their opinions, no one is going to ban hightec rifles and make you use a spear, amazing how sensitive people are. I think the face shot thing is about hitting the face when your aiming for something else, reminds me of a post last year where they shot two big bulls on a late Arizona hunt, one was at 1100 yds and the other 1200 or something like that, they hit one in the horn, but managed to get both, was the horn shot on purpose? It could have been a gut shot? of course that happens at 50 yds also, but It does make me wonder about things like shooting elk in a treed up canyon at over a thousand yards away? I don,t think we want to take away anyones cookies, its just an honest dialog about technology and the direction this sport we love so much is going.
 
piper---That's exactly right and I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything they don't want to do. What I and several others are trying to do is to make others realize that certain things may not be in the best interest of our sport. I get a little perturbed when I keep reading people on this thread telling how they can shoot at long range on targets. That's great and I don't doubt it a bit! If I wanted to, I imagine I could ring a damn gong at 700 or 1000 yards too if I practiced with the proper equipment. Why can't people just be happy with shooting nice groups at those long distance targets that don't move and bleed? There are always a number of people with the same old comeback like was just made again that I or we can't do something and that's why we are against it! That is pure BS!!! There are two things I feel are wrong with this long distance shooting at animals and I'll say it one last time and quit because it just doesn't seem to be getting across to those of you who are saying I'm Gestapo or Hitler, etc.!!!
One---At the distances we are talking about it isn't prctice like your'e shooting paper or a gong. Unlike paper or a gong, a living, breathing animal can move just as the trigger is squeezed and it can be completely out of the bullet's trajectory in the time it takes to get there to make a humane kill, resulting in a miss or a lot worse in a wounded animal. I've seen too many people over the years shoot at a lot closer distances than we're talking about and when the animal did not fall over dead in it's tracks didn't even bother to go check for signs of a hit. I wonder how many of these long distance shooters will do the same bloody thing because it would be such a long walk to go check! Think about that guys!!!
Two---As stated by several of us, the other reason is that it almost, if not completely, negates an animals senses of smell, sight, and hearing when you're at those kind of distances. Is that fair chase hunting or just plain killing for the sake of killing? I can't remember who made this next statement on this thread, but I thought it was right on the mark. If you need to go over to the animal after you shoot it to gut it or to check if you hit it at those long distances, why not just do a stalk and close the distance before taking the shot to greatly increase your percentage of making a humane kill!!!
 
Ain't this a HOOT!.......Drama in the off season!

I just today, in honor of this thread, ordered a 6.5x284, Savage "Long Range" hunter.



"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
Deer Jazz,


oops, I mean topgun. Sorry I get you to mixed up. The more you post on MM, the more it is clear that if it is not your way its wrong. Why is it that everything you do is moral, ethical, correct. How is it someone can take a head shot at one animal at 100 yards(elk,deer) and you say it is unethical and we owe it to the animal, they can move and we could wound it. But then later on you say you head shoot hogs at 100 yards?? Seems to me as long as you do it its ok, but everyone else is wrong if it is not in stride with your way of thinking.
How can someone sit here and say that a 500 yard shot is too far to shoot, but that same person shoots 300-400 yards. They are all long shots and at all ranges animals can move, you can jerk your shot and so on and so on. 400 yards is ok but 500 is unethical cuz that is too far for the animal to sence danger?? come on.
Why do sportsmen wear cover scents, why do they try to stay downwind, wear como ect? Why do we try and sneak in on an animal so they dont even know were there? is it fair that we shoot an animal while it is feeding at 70 yards, after all they didn't know we were there. Should we bang pots and pans as we hunt so that animal knows we are there and has a chance to escape?
No matter what range we are to the animal we are hunting, we try to stay undetected. we try to outsmart that old buck so we can take his life. So we can kill! Does the animal really care if its 100 or 500 yards?
Those that are against long range make it seem that every shot is 1,000 yards. That they dont want to get closer. That could not be further from the truth! All the guys that I know, myself included, always try to get closer for a better shot. I would much rather have a 100 yard shot then a 600 yard shot. But, If I can not get any closer I know I can make the 600 yard shot. Let me give you an example...
This past year in colorado I was hunting an area that is fairly open. I glassed from the same spot for 4 days because I knew there was a buck I wanted to find from the previous year. In 2009 I found this buck but one antler was blown off so I let him go. I felt that if he was still alive he would show up. Well on the 4th day just after sun up I saw two bucks running up the draw because two other hunters spooked them. I knew it was a Big buck so I grabbed my gun and ran trying to head them off. Luckily they stopped once they felt same but I was still 1,000 yards away. Could I have shot? Hell ya I could have but I elected to get closer. I came to a small rocky knob and thats as far as I could go. If I dropped down trying to get on the other side of the canyon they would have gone out of site and finding them again in the rocky junipers would be near impossible.
I ranged him at 612 yards and knew it was now or never. He was on full alert and had me pegged, even at 600 yards. I waited til he cleared the trees then touched one single shot off and never saw him again until I slowly walked over there. Less then 30 yards from where he stood when I shot, there he was laying dead.
Because I was prepared, Put in many hours and hundreds of shots practicing, I now have my dream 200+ deer on the wall. Is it any less of a deer, or is it any less or any more of an acomplishment to me because I shot it at 600 yards? NO! Would it mean more to me at 100 yards? NO!
Most of us hunt for the same reasons. There is nothing better then spending time outdoors with family or friends chasing that monster bull or buck. I enjoy just being out in the mountains, away from the rat race of normal life. I enjoy being out there just watching wildlife, watching them interact with one another. But as much as I enjoy just being out there I am there to try and harvest an animal. And when I finally find that once in a lifetime animal, I want the best chance possible at bringing that animal home with me.
Are long range hunters less of a hunter? do they hunt that way because they suck and cant get close? Well the last three years I have three bull elk on my wall shot with a bow ranging from 10 feet to 60 yards. But how can that be, Im a long range hunter???
 

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