Future of the White-tail impact on Mule deer in Utah

WIDOW_MAKER · Apr 12, 2011

Last October during the rifle deer hunt in Utah, the first deer I saw opening day was 2 white-tail does and 2 white-tail fawns in Heber Valley near the Provo River. I thought it was cool to see them...because I never have seen white-tail in UT. I am not into white-tail hunting and have no desire as of yet. I am concerned what the white-tail population will be like in the future UT. I am nervous that they could have a negative impact on the Mule Deer herds in the future. What are your opinions about the future of white-tail impact on mule deer in UT?

WIDOW_MAKER

AndymanSavage · Apr 12, 2011

Look at other states with big whitetail populations (Colorado ,Wyoming, Montana). I think it would be similar here. I welcome it, all our mulies will be gone soon anyway.....

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Stubaby · Apr 12, 2011

They might have a bad impact. However, the other obstacles for muleys(predation, habitat loss, poaching, and people shooting "meat bucks" from the truck) have a far greater impact. I am from Ogden, but have lived in MT now for 5 years. The whiteys really spread out the hunters, esp. the bow hunters. Here you have to choose your species. The more guys sitting in tree stands in the river bottoms, the less guys are up in the alpine country buggin the mule deer I tend to focus on. I know lots of people who punch their buck tag for a whitey. The whitetails are genetically superior in the fact that they are better breeders and more aggressive, so they will continue to spread and thicken in numbers.

The way I see it is that unless the DWR gets rid of them now(don't know how though), there will be more and more of them. If I were in Utah, I would be much more affraid of Canis Lupis than some whitetails. Besides, they provide more opportunities to hunt. Brown trout are not native and have kicked the cuthroat and rainbows butts for decades. However, when a 20 inch hook-jaw smokes my fly reel and heads upstream its hard to hate them, too.

"That's a special feeling, Lloyd"

cjboz · Apr 12, 2011

Well written post Stubaby. Pro or Con you nailed it!

swbuckmaster · Apr 13, 2011

Just stating the facts.

White tail deer tend to hang more around agricultural land and water. In Utah this tends to be around private property. So when the white tail get a foot hold the farmers will be looking for $$$$ handouts from the DWR because they think they are entitled to compensation. This will bankrupt an already bankrupt entity.

This also means unless you have money or have private property you wont be hunting them.

So I hope they never get a good foot hold. I also know that when the dwr finds them they shoot both does and bucks.

nickman · Apr 13, 2011

Look at the stats of white tails taken in Utah over the years.

Look at attitude of the DWR regarding white tail deer in Utah.

Given the natural progression of nature in general, I doubt you need to be "nervous" about white tail in Utah, in your lifetime.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"

Blanding_Boy · Apr 13, 2011

Todd Black

here you go...

http://www.monstermuleys.com/cgi-bin/stories/site99.pl?page=art-toddblackwhitetail&tem=art1

Visit our YouTube page
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swbuckmaster · Apr 13, 2011

Thanks todd

Im glad the dwr are killing them when they see them.

Prism · Apr 13, 2011

I've been wondering if the dwr is killng them. I haven't been seeing them around Heber this winter.

Daxter · Apr 13, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-11 AT 10:02PM (MST)[p]I am more optimistic about the what might happen if whitetail were to establish themselves in UT than Todd.

From areas I have hunted in central and eastern WY it seemed like the whitetail and muleys pretty much stayed in their own separate habitat types. If they were to become established in Utah I see them as potentially taking some of the hunting pressure off mule deer and giving more opportunity for folks that want to hunt big game.

That being said, I do think there would be some major problems with landowners/farmers claiming damage to their crops and I can't imagine what the poor residents of Bountiful would do if they had to deal with high whitetail densities eating their landscaping. There are some agricultural areas and river bottom type habitats where whitetail would surely displace muleys.

While I wouldn't necessarily push for establishment of whitetail in UT, I also don't see them as certain death for mule deer.

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

Blanding_Boy · Apr 14, 2011

Dax--

You and I have talked about this in the past, the problem I see with your comparison of MT and WY to UT is that those areas in UT are already occupied by mule deer and there really isn't an niche partitioning here. Mule deer in Utah are just as likely to be found in the river bottoms (in fact their winter range in many places in UT) as they are at 10,000 feet. White-tail deer summering at Tony Grove is occupying a niche because of low deer densities not because that is their preferred habitat. I would argue the only reason we are able to have WTD here now is due to low MD densities allowing the WTD to get established. In the case of WTD in UT, its another straw and maybe the final straw. Sorry to sound glume and doome but can our MD herds haven't done too well with an increasing elk population I don't suspect they would handle an increasing WTD population on top of that.

Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
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Gator · Apr 14, 2011

Whitetails in farming area's will have a bigger problem then State DWR's, Alot of eastern States farmers that grow corn will be wanting to get rid of any and all corn eating animals with corn hitting $7 bucks a bushel. That a ton of money they are losing every year due to deer in the fields. IMO

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

NONYAMT · Apr 14, 2011

It will give the wolves something to eat besides muleys when they get established down there...

wheatja114 · Apr 14, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-11 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]Man you guys out west have NO clue how "lucky" you are to have Mule deer & elk to hunt! I have in lived in Va. all my life & have I seen what Whitetails can do. First off they are 10 harder to hunt than any elk or mule deer plus they are great masters of survial. They can reproduce & live off of nonething and anywhere. We are so over populated with them that our season starts the first week of Sept.(bow) for 4 weeks, then a two week muzzleloader season, then a 6 week gun season. There is no break in between these seasons plus we hunt / run/ chase them with DOGS! We have an open doe season & doe tags are UNLIMITED! The game dept. here said we still are not killing enough whitetail deer per year. I love them but I hate them too! Our deer hunt club has 40 hunters & we killed over 245 deer in our 6 week gun season alone in 2010. Not counting the 30 sume we got with the bows! I have been told that a mule deer doe will breed with a whitetail buck but a whitetail doe will NOT breed with a mule deer buck! How SMART is that for survival! Please GOD, long live the MULE DEER. Be thankful for them & not a cross breed whitetail or muledeer being gone forever! They will take over, keep them out of the west, please.