me and my buddy went out on the utah general rifle hunt the other day to try to get him a buck. he has hunted hard and hasnt seen anything worth taking. i took him to one of my favorite spots and we set out to do a 3 or 4 mile hike. we came into a draw and jumped a monster buck. i mean it was a real nice buck. it was walking away from us and it wasnt really to conserned my friend was about to shoot and i told him to wait. we didnt have an ethical shot. and it was heading into a patch to cedars and then it would have to come out on the other side and we could have a chance at a better shot so we set up and waited. it came out on the other side and still had his but towards us looking at us for close to 5 minutes. what happens next i couldnt believe a hunter had hiked the ridge and was behind us. and too a 400 yard shot at the animal and he had the same angle we did. he hit it in the butt even though it went down quick i couldnt be more unhappy. a 400 butt shot? it makes me wish we would have taken when we could have. we walked up with the guy and he measured 31 wide and had 5 on one side and 4 on the easily being a 185-195 inch buck.. when i commented to the hunter about his shot he said well it brought him down did it not? i think that this is bull
where are people ethics?
- Thread starter Bushmen
- Start date
BLooDTRaCKeR
Very Active Member
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- 2,743
You did the right thing by waiting for a better shot. Bad timing to have that clown shoot him out from underneath you. Chances are, he probably could not duplicate that same shot having the exact same results. He is lucky. Sorry to hear. Keep after it and don't let this experience lower your standards to be ethical with future shot opportunities.
B
brownboy1473
Guest
I'm in total agreeance with you. I had a similar thing happen to me as well on an elk hunt years ago except it was a spike and I was no more then 50 yards from the elk when the guy that was shooting was 600+ yards. Scared the piss out of me and is one of the reasons I won't hunt the rifle hunt anymore.
Brownboy
www.brownboyproductions.net
Brownboy
www.brownboyproductions.net
D
dreaminbouthuntin
Guest
Had the same experience this year. Had a buck running away at 200 yards, no ethical shot. All the sudden above me three or four shots go ringing out at the buck. They too shot him in the butt. He died. I went up to them with the buck and he was easy 180". Couldn't belive it. I was met with the same attitude. So, i got it. Rediculous.
I wasn't there but I have been "on this site" for more than a decade. I've seen a LOT of ethics "discussions" (and fights).
I've taught hunter ed for many many years. One of the first questions I ask every class is, "Do you have to be a good shot to pass this class".
Of course, the answer is "no" but I then define a good shot....someone who knows that of which they (and their equipment) are capable...KNOWS.
I also tell them I have been shooting (A LOT) for more than 50 years, that I was a teenager in a time when there were LOTS of jackrabbits and I shot them 300+ days per year; those rabbits run, much like a deer. I tell them that I can shoot a running deer at 300 yards and (almost certainly) hit it in the chest cavity.
WE THEN TALK ABOUT ETHICS...not ONLY shooting skills but ALL aspects...and I REPEATEDLY tell them every animal deserves to be killed quickly.
I tell them if they can't shoot as I described, they need to get to the range and practice; if they can, they need to practice to maintain the skill.
I relate a story about my daughter failing to shoot "her first elk", because it took her WAY TOO LONG to aim and the elk walked away: that I'm even more proud of that, than that she had an article in Eastman's about the first deer she took....because she didn't attempt something about which she wasn't certain.
At 400 yards, there are certainly many people who have the ability to shoot a deer in the neck, back of the head or.....to kill it quickly with a single shot. (Most) Others cannot.
I believe Lt. Harry Callahan once told his commander, "a good man's got to know his limitations".
I'm not trying to pick a fight with the original poster (or anyone) but it is OBVIOUSLY bad ethics to poach, party hunt and ride 4-wheelers where prohibited. Killing a large deer with a single shot? Not so much.
NOW, if the hunter were directly behind you, so they shot right over your head, if he only located the animal because he saw you stalking it,........but that wasn't described.
The interpretation of many ethics discussions sound a LOT like, "even though I was on public land, since I saw the deer (or spot), it "belonged" to me".
Within the shadows, go quietly.
I've taught hunter ed for many many years. One of the first questions I ask every class is, "Do you have to be a good shot to pass this class".
Of course, the answer is "no" but I then define a good shot....someone who knows that of which they (and their equipment) are capable...KNOWS.
I also tell them I have been shooting (A LOT) for more than 50 years, that I was a teenager in a time when there were LOTS of jackrabbits and I shot them 300+ days per year; those rabbits run, much like a deer. I tell them that I can shoot a running deer at 300 yards and (almost certainly) hit it in the chest cavity.
WE THEN TALK ABOUT ETHICS...not ONLY shooting skills but ALL aspects...and I REPEATEDLY tell them every animal deserves to be killed quickly.
I tell them if they can't shoot as I described, they need to get to the range and practice; if they can, they need to practice to maintain the skill.
I relate a story about my daughter failing to shoot "her first elk", because it took her WAY TOO LONG to aim and the elk walked away: that I'm even more proud of that, than that she had an article in Eastman's about the first deer she took....because she didn't attempt something about which she wasn't certain.
At 400 yards, there are certainly many people who have the ability to shoot a deer in the neck, back of the head or.....to kill it quickly with a single shot. (Most) Others cannot.
I believe Lt. Harry Callahan once told his commander, "a good man's got to know his limitations".
I'm not trying to pick a fight with the original poster (or anyone) but it is OBVIOUSLY bad ethics to poach, party hunt and ride 4-wheelers where prohibited. Killing a large deer with a single shot? Not so much.
NOW, if the hunter were directly behind you, so they shot right over your head, if he only located the animal because he saw you stalking it,........but that wasn't described.
The interpretation of many ethics discussions sound a LOT like, "even though I was on public land, since I saw the deer (or spot), it "belonged" to me".
Within the shadows, go quietly.
Not to burst anyones bubble but it sounds like some people need to take the opportunities when they arise....I know i am going to get razzed about this but a deer hit straight up the corn hole dies quick.....the bullet hits everything on the way out its chest! I did the opposite last year on a buck. the buck was looking directly at me at 330 yards and center punched his chest. The bullet exited his rear end.....the damage was crazy.
Last year, I took a 45-year-old friend hunting. He's hunted his entire life and has killed many deer and elk. Does that make him a "good hunter"? (Yes, he is nice, honest and legal.)
I took him, because he's been a paraplegic for the last 25 years and WORKS harder to hunt (even hiking with crutches) than anyone of whom I'm aware. I told him, "I'd be labor to brush" and to carry the buck".
I was with him when he sighted his gun in and I saw him shoot at numerous bucks...he shot poorly; wounded one (maybe two). He blamed it on the gun. I don't know; part of a good shot is having the equipment prepared. (I did take his rifle to the smith half way through the season.)
I would not want to trade him places, but I DO KNOW my 8-year-old is a better shot. Of course, he's using equipment I've prepared and sighted but.......
The point being, "an ethical shot" for one hunter is not necessarily the same for another.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
I took him, because he's been a paraplegic for the last 25 years and WORKS harder to hunt (even hiking with crutches) than anyone of whom I'm aware. I told him, "I'd be labor to brush" and to carry the buck".
I was with him when he sighted his gun in and I saw him shoot at numerous bucks...he shot poorly; wounded one (maybe two). He blamed it on the gun. I don't know; part of a good shot is having the equipment prepared. (I did take his rifle to the smith half way through the season.)
I would not want to trade him places, but I DO KNOW my 8-year-old is a better shot. Of course, he's using equipment I've prepared and sighted but.......
The point being, "an ethical shot" for one hunter is not necessarily the same for another.
Within the shadows, go quietly.
To answer your question- In the toilet.
That being said, unless I know exactly what the other hunter was seeing through his reticle I cannot say he did or did not have a good shot. If he wasn't standing right next to you the other shooters vantage point and shot could have been very different. That being said, if he did not have a decent shot then he is a dufus.
That being said, unless I know exactly what the other hunter was seeing through his reticle I cannot say he did or did not have a good shot. If he wasn't standing right next to you the other shooters vantage point and shot could have been very different. That being said, if he did not have a decent shot then he is a dufus.
L
littlejoe
Guest
Public land, gotta love it. You just never know who you will run into or what you will experience.
C
colter
Guest
Everyone's hunting opportunities and experiences are not the same. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure, but it sounds like you did what you thought was best and he did as well. If he put it down in one shot, he either knew what he was doing or was extremely lucky. When I go out west, I'm traveling over 1500 miles one way and investing a lot of time and money in the trip. If I have a safe and legal opportunity to take the animal and believe I can do it, then I'm going to.
T
timothymarks
Guest
i agree with you a ass shot will kill an animal fast. there are alot of arteries in there to hit and you tear into the organs like you said. 400 yard butt shot or possible spine shot= antlers on the wall.
swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
poop or get off the pot comes to mind when rifle hunting public land in tardville.
there are simply tooooo many rifle hunters in this state imho.
there are simply tooooo many rifle hunters in this state imho.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,085
That is crazy talk. A shot in the hind quarter can never be considered an ethical shot, it might work if you break the hip or hit an an artery, but there is just as good a chance that it will just pass straight through the deer. The only time that shot should be taken is if the animal is wounded. You might be able to debate a texas heart shot...
grizzmoose
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,023
>Not to burst anyones bubble but
>it sounds like some people
>need to take the opportunities
>when they arise....I know i
>am going to get razzed
>about this but a deer
>hit straight up the corn
>hole dies quick.....the bullet hits
>everything on the way out
>its chest! I did the
>opposite last year on a
>buck. the buck was looking
>directly at me at 330
>yards and center punched his
>chest. The bullet exited his
>rear end.....the damage was crazy.
>
You shoot a deer up the arse and you deserve to clean out that awful mess.
>it sounds like some people
>need to take the opportunities
>when they arise....I know i
>am going to get razzed
>about this but a deer
>hit straight up the corn
>hole dies quick.....the bullet hits
>everything on the way out
>its chest! I did the
>opposite last year on a
>buck. the buck was looking
>directly at me at 330
>yards and center punched his
>chest. The bullet exited his
>rear end.....the damage was crazy.
>
You shoot a deer up the arse and you deserve to clean out that awful mess.
M
MTSHEDHEDZ
Guest
Big buck,going straight away....Id drop him.
AdrenalineAddict
Member
- Messages
- 21
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 05:51PM (MST)[p]You failed to mention if he saw you first. Provided he did not know you were there, I don't think there is an ethics issue. Shooting a deer up the rear is frowned upon by some, but for many,they know a well placed shot in the rear will positively drop them in their tracks. Some hunters can place a bullet within 2 or 3 inches of a spot at 600 yards when given time to set-up and evaluate conditions, this guy may have been very skilled. Public land hunting can be quite a challenge and on the flipside, very rewarding when things work out right, but very aggravating when deer get shot out from under you.
Not saying I have or encourage anyone else to... My uncle jumped a whopper buck when he was 17 or 18 years old. He missed the buck twice on the run under 100 yds. The buck made it over the hill to another hunter. The other hunter hit the buck in the back knee (I guess that's what its called?) And the buck went down, stayed down and didn't try to get up. My uncle finished the buck for the other hunter, helped him field dress it and drag it to the truck. When they got there they measured him at 28.5 wide, 25 tall 5x6.
Some deer go down relatively easy, others don't. We owe it to the animal to have as quick death as possible! I will pass a texas heart shot. But who knows if I will let the 300 rip on that shot at a 185+ buck? Everything changes in the field. Is that my ideal shot? No it is not. I guess I fall into the depends on how big it is. I have let big bucks go because they were out of range and not there when I got there.
Some deer go down relatively easy, others don't. We owe it to the animal to have as quick death as possible! I will pass a texas heart shot. But who knows if I will let the 300 rip on that shot at a 185+ buck? Everything changes in the field. Is that my ideal shot? No it is not. I guess I fall into the depends on how big it is. I have let big bucks go because they were out of range and not there when I got there.
Roy
Moderator
- Messages
- 7,446
Part of ethics is being able to live with your choice and keeping your head high even when you see others not obeying that some code and profiting from it.
You just have to say, "Well - I did it the way I wanted to and if that didn't work out - that was my choice too."
HOOK 'EM!
You just have to say, "Well - I did it the way I wanted to and if that didn't work out - that was my choice too."
HOOK 'EM!
