2012 dedicated hunter

N

NDG81

Guest
I had an idea I presented to the DNR for us dedicated hunters that with the state being split into 30 plus units that for the dedicated hunters it be fair that for the draw we get to pick 3 units to hunt instead of 1, as kinda of a perk for being dedicated. so our tag would read (dedicated hunter unit 23,29 and 14) I would like a few thoughts on this before rac meeting in nov.
 
I thought I heard they may do away with the program ? The changes are going to take a little getting us to.
 
I don't think that they are doing away with the program but I agree that being a dedicated hunter and putting in the hours etc should come with some extra perks like being able to hunt more than one tiny unit. I agree with you on this one. If the perks are really good more people would apply and then I may not even draw for the area I want. This is my main concern about the smaller units, not knowing what the draw odds are for dedicated hunters vs. single season hunters.




"99% of the failures come from people who have a habit of making excuses" George Washington
 
Im a dedicated hunter myself and see why you would want the freedom to hunt multiple units. But when we are now trying to manage hunter numbers and harvest by area, doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose? Now once again we can't know exactly how many hunters are going into an area. That is what we are trying to fix with the smaller units in the first place. Not a good idea. I believe that DHs should have some more perks, but that is going to throw a monkey wrench into the whole new management program. Look at other perks. Like getting your choice of which unit guaranteed and you can change your choice from year to year. I think you would have a better chance getting something like that. DHs need to help better the deer herd not be a variable the DWR can't account for.

oakbrush.
 
I agree oakbrush I am just trying to find away to make it feel like us as dedicated are getting a little perk your ideas are great and will take them to the table. keep the ideas and advise coming.
 
DHers do get a perk they get to hunt all three seasons and two tags in three years. should we let DHers hunt in november too just to make them feel special? If you dont think the current perks are worth it get out of the program.
 
I have been a dedicated hunter in the past, in recent years I have not been, and I have not been happy w/ the way deer management in this state has went. I think that I can see a light at the end of the tunnel so to speak w/ the split into 30+ units and decreasing number of tags. I agree w/ oakbrush that to manage the number of hunters afield that a hunter should be permitted to select one unit. Utah DWR will really need to get creative in order to promote better numbers of deer and quality of deer (age, doe/buck ratios, etc) and hunting experience afield (quality of the hunting experience, opportunity, etc.). I guess the perk to dedicated hunters is hunting multiple seasons- archery, muzzy, rifle.
 
I am not un-happy with current perks brutus its the future ones i'm asking about no need to come in here being a jerk. its trying to find new ideas. currenty the perks are great its the smaller unit that I feel is not a perk. I'm looking at ideas of how to help not be told off thank you. I remember when hunters stuck together and worked together. guess those days are gone.
 
I get a kick out of the dedicated hunters who will never be satisfied. All summer long I had to listen to the majority of the people on this site whine about no deer in Utah. There must be a few around, there have been quite a few Utards stumble out into the woods and kill some pretty impressive bucks. I have seen as many and as good of bucks come out of general units in Utah as any other state. Now you all have whined your way into getting your tags cut and you won't be able to hunt your spots every year. Haha I love it, the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence or state line. Sounds like you have all hung yourselves. As for a dedicated hunter what more do you want? Pick a unit pick a weapon and quit whining or you will continue to lessen the opportunity year after year. You are not special for the most part you have no sense of reality how lucky you have been in the past. Poor Archery Hunter + Poor Muzzy Hunter + Poor Rifle Hunter = Dedicated Hunter. Get rid of it! Tag cuts are not the answer either, get rid of the dedicated hunter program, pick a unit and a weapon. if your not seeing deer hunt harder the proof is in the pudding. Just my two cents......
 
There is a very valid truth to what dirtysanchez is saying. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
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Since I commented more general bucks are piling into the forum.....haha keep cutting those tags and lessen opportunity that sounds great guys, whining always pays off!
 
I think this state should just slash all the rifle tags back to about 20,000 state wide. 20,000 archery tags, and 20,000 muzzy tags.

It is a freaking joke going out on the rifle hunt and seeing loads of vehicles, camps, and orange on every ridge and canyon.

This alone would make the dedicated hunter privileges worth the hours. Because its going to take 10 years to draw a general tag when they do it. So being a dedicated hunter you could hunt for 3 years in a row if you wanted to.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-27-11 AT 08:03PM (MST)[p]Yeah, Utah general season sucks. Don't know why I even bother....

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Personally I think don't think it's as bad as everyone says, but maybe it is worse in the areas I don't hunt, I don't know. There is plenty of opportunity out there. But you do have to work for it.


oakbrush
 
Nice Oak,

The perk is you get a tag every year. Everyone else just may get a tag based on the draw.... and you get to shoot 2 deer in 3 years.
I say pick the ONE unit.
 
I am not 100 percent sure what kind of work or donations it takes to be a dedicated hunter. But i think getting to hunt all three seasons is enough of a reward. Just because some dude puts in some service hours doesn't mean he should get to hunt wherever he wants. Hunting every season is enough...
 
I think being a dedicated hunter and being allowed to hunt all three hunts is enough on each of the 30 units.

1- Draw tag through the draw
2- Opt-in for dedicated hunter for that year (limited quota)
3- Complete required hours before the opener of the archery hunt
4- Hunt all three hunts and try to kill a big old buck that year
5- Start over the next year

It is not perfect, but it is how I would do the dedicated hunter program. I don't see the two bucks in three years and 40 hours thing working on the smaller unit system very well. Unless, they do a dedicated hunter program draw in December or January before the normal draw. Which I would support and join.
 
I think the units will help utah out even though you have to get off the roads to hunt to kill a nice deer in utah cause they are out there. Utah is behind times, I like the small units. Also I hate hunting in this state how it is now. Utah will figure a way to hose the dedicated hunters as they always do and have. I think a good thing has got worse and worse. Not a fan of our great wildlife board wouldn't be shocked much if they don't start chargeing everyone more $$$$ either. Sorry you can tell I have great confidents in the system and it out to help out the hunter maybe private land owners more???????
 
DHers should have to pick a unit, they already get the perks. everyone that draws a tag has to pick a unit. DHers already get perks all 3 hunts 2 deer in 3 years. most people are lucky to draw a tag every third year. how many people actually put in the hours they are supposed to or have someone they know sign them off without putting the full time in. ive saw alot of those projects, 20 people milking out a 2 man job for 10 hours. its a load of crap, DHers dont do that much extra to get the perks. maybe some do but 90% dont.
 
Palomino I have been with the dedicated program for 9 years now and each time they people I hunt with and the group do more than there share of hours. everyone bashing the program is not what this thread was indended for I wanted to get ideas to see what the true dedicated hunters out there thought not the posers that do milk the system. those of us who do spend countless hours grooming trails in the spring teaching kid to fish all summer and building guzzlers for wildlife. I logged 60 hours each year not 40 for all three everyone I hunt with works hard to earn there tag. I agree there are poser dedicated hunters but not all of us are that way and that is who I am trying to help. thanks for the input oakbrush and those of you who really care.
 
I believe the DH program has been a great program. i my self have been in it for 12 years, opting out this year for the first time. With the uncertainly of how it would be ran with the new changes coming through, we decided we would waiting it out a year to see what happens.
Yes people have received simple or unearned hours, but there is no doubt it saves our division a lot of money. Projects get done faster and sooner with the program. Also it gives people a way to feel involved. Even though, sadly most of the time people need an incentive to get involved.

With the new system coming into play in 2012, it will be difficult to merge the DH program in. I do not see how allowing DH to choose their unit will work. DH hunters could flood certain units.Leaving very few if any tags left for the draw.

As others have said-I would like to see the unit drawn first, then apply for the DH program, if successful for the DH program, complete the requirements. Make it a one year deal. The perks would be being able to hunt all 3 seasons.

Also Drtysanchez- I take offense to the comment "Poor Archery Hunter + Poor Muzzy Hunter + Poor Rifle Hunter = Dedicated Hunter."
 
Im with you blazing, allthough i did not put extra hours i worked hard for the hours i completed this year. on top of that i could be making 50$ an hour overtime instead i come out and work for the division so there is qiute a bit of monetary sacrifice there.

as far as all the bashing on dedicated hunters, it is pretty obvious that it is all jealousy. if the program is so great why dont you just put in and join it? i drew it the first time i put in it cant be that hard to draw. are you afraid of completing some community service for the fish and game or is one weekend hunting a year your kind of style? these are just my observations, and not meant to start a pissing match.

as far as picking different units i could care less mine is going to be in morgan, i have a good piece to hunt. I want to see the limited entry oppurtunity brought back. it seemed like a good incentive not to kill somthing silly at the end of the year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 10:15AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 10:11?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 10:11?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 10:10?AM (MST)

This is how the dedicated program works as I understand it right now---
Current dedicated hunters will have their pick of which unit they want starting for the 2012 season--
The DWR will put a web link on the DWR web page that will allow each current dedicated hunter to choose which unit they want, They will have a deadline of January 13 to make their choice.

For new Dedicated hunter applicants-- You have to apply for the DH program and at the same time indicate which unit you want.I believe you will be able to put in for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd unit choice. Each unit will have a cap of 15% of tags going to dedicated hunter participants. However, for the next 2 years those already in the DH program will be able to hunt the unit they want irregardless of the 15% cap. It will take another 2 years to "flush" out the current DHers and unit choice until the "new" DHers will fall under the 15% cap regulations. So, staring in 2012-- if you draw out for the DH program you have to fit into the 15% cap. You can only hunt in the unit you originally choose and you cannot change units during the 3 year period.
As of now, as a Central RAC member, I have not been given any tag numbers for each of the 30 units. Your odds for being able to draw a DH tag for any given unit is a guessing game. The DWR has all the historical info in regards to average hunter numbers in any given unit but they first need to do a post season buck/doe ratio count to put into the equation to determine how many a tags will be issued for a given unit.
Sometime in about February a mass mailing will be sent by the DWR to all previous big game applicants with a direct link to the 30 general season deer units map, 2010 summary sheet, buck/doe info and big game application.

The application period begins in February.
You might be interested to know also, that once you apply and are successful in the General season deer hunt (dh or not) you will recieve a detailed map of the unit you can hunt in along with your tag.
On May 3 the Wildlife Board will be given info on tag numbers for each unit and make approvals of the tag numbers.
 
It is true that there is a lot of opportunity for people who work at it. I totally agree that the condition of the deer herd is a bit over dramatized on this site.
But there must be some issues or the DNR would not be implementing the new systems.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-28-11 AT 04:56PM (MST)[p]Nebo
Sounds good. I do think the program is a good thing. And I hope it sticks around. I know it is a benefit, not a joke as some on here say. Because they have more time to hunt, I know most DHs are more selective and only tend to harvest a more mature class of buck which does benefit the non-DHs when they draw thier tag. I know several DH that shoot only one deer or non at all during thier 3 year term. It is easy to let the little ones walk when you know you have the next season or you know 100% you are getting a tag the following year. Not to mention all the habitat work that also benefits the other tag holders when they draw. Instead of being jealous that your nieghbor is getting to go hunting a lot more than you- roll up your sleaves and donate some time.

Out here in the west, the hardest part of mule deer hunting is getting a tag. This is one way for you to get one, but you would rather complain. I don't have a lot of money to buy high dollar tags, so donating a few hours of labor to hunt seems like a no brainer to me. So while some are complaining it's a joke, I will be out trying to add a few pics to the photo album like the ones I posted earlier in this post. People are complaining about not having enough opportunity-the opportunity is staring you right in the face.

Thanks,
oakbrush.
 
The only issue I see with the DH program is that is puts hardcore rifle hunters in the field screwing up the hardcore archery and muzzy guys that only want to hunt with their bow or muzzy. Do you really need any more of an advantage than to hunt with a weapon that you can kill something from a different area code with? Let the rifle hunters have their 9 day hunt, but don't allow them to use the archery and muzzy hunt as "scouting" trips to screw up the serious archery and muzzy guys.....I don't mean to offend, but it is offensive to call yourself a "Dedicated Hunter" when in reality you are only using the archery and muzzy hunt to scout for the rifle hunt. I know not all have this mentality but most guys I have questioned in the field claim they don't get "real serious" till the muzzy and rifle hunts. Well if you don't plan on getting serious with a bow in your hand wait your turn before you screw it up for a fellow hunter.
 
Ridge you make my point, why should a hardcore bowhunter or muzzy hunter half to compete with the mass of dedicated "rifle"
hunters? Needless to say those that are not hardcore bowhunters still have the opportunity to pick their bow back up and hunt on the front through the end of November......You have had it good in Utah and in my opinion are hanging yourselves because guys are not willing to work to kill a good buck, those that put in the time are killing good bucks year in and year out.
 
I have two issues with it. First and foremost you have a lot of hunters out there who are not competent with three types of weapons and are wounding to many animals. The only time they see a bow is a week before the season, then they go muzzleloading, don't know the drop of their slug and think its a high-power rifle not realizing they have to go to where they shot to see if it was a hit, then track the animal if wounded.

Second, I really think whereas the mule deer populations are hurting and this is an additional opportunity to hunt deer, all of the hours should go to the restoration of habitat for deer(not elk).
 
How does countless hours grooming a trail and taking a kid fishing improve mule deer habitat? Granted both good things, but I have heard countless stories of how guys have delivered proclamations, took handicapped kids fishing, cleaned up trash on roads and trails, cleaned bathrooms at campgrounds.....all good things, but beneficial for mule deer herds? It is now all about the money and to pad the DOW pocketbooks, with the tags being cut where do you think they will make that up? Heaven help you if the Utah DOW takes a pay cut. You will probably see a rise in tag prices. I do think the DH program was a good thing when it started, and many beneficial projects were done to improve mule deer habitat. No other state in the country offers such a program that I am aware of. In my opinion it now negatively impacts Utah's deer herd, being pressured by the same mob on every hunt can't be healthy for a buck.
 
This thread has gotten funny. I want to clear up a few things.

#1. it was said that DH'rs ruin the hunt for others during the bow and muzzle loader seasons. as far as i can tell the program is capped at 10,000. i dont believe that we are ruining your hunt by spooking the game.

#2 in a summarized version there are some that believe that we are a waist of time. "Dedicated Hunters in Utah have given the state's wildlife more than $6 million in volunteer hours and service in the past four years alone." refer to http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/news/42-utah-wildlife-news/523-changes-to-dedicated-hunter-program.html What have YOU done for the hunting in Utah lately?


#3 dedicated hunters primarily use rifles, and use the other 2 seasons as "scouting trips", also we are not as good as the "hard core" archery and muzzy hunters. So its ok to assume we dont practice as much as the "hardcore" guys at being proficient with our weapons.

anyways please continue with the redicoulos comments they are actualy entertaining.
 
I've been dh member on and off, and my only beef is what dirty said. They need to make every HOUR of service beneficial to the mule deer herd. They raised the hours and got greedy now they lowered it to get more stamp lickers. Go figure.
 
Timothy I honor your opinion, this thread has gotten Redinkulous and I am Aktully done commenting on it. You and others have solidified my point of the ignorance of MOST dedicated hunters.... The rope is getting shorter and shorter.
 
Holy cow.

So we're going to give
lifetime license holders a percentage
Dedicated hunters a percentage
Youth a percentage
Seniors a percentage
Conservation groups a percentage
Landowners a percentage
The expo a percentage

Let's not forget the ladies and minorities while we're at it...

If you're an average 18-65 year old male assume the position.
 
Paul,

Right? It's iether assume the position or join one of groups. So that is why I'm a dedicated hunter. I want a tag, so I play the game. We all wish it was like the good ole days, but I'm afraid it never will be again.

How have you been by the way?

oakbrush
 
How would you all feel about a DH program for general season elk instead of deer? Just want your thoughts.
 
PRISM hit the nail on the head....

The Dedicated Hunters (DH) already get to hunt three hunts every year. If that is not enough incentive then you are not very dedicated are you? Too many groups already have their hand in the cookie jar for these tags.


"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
I joined the dedicated hunter from the get-go and if the participants did the projects we did, the numbers cap would not be needed and the 32 hours would be plenty. Only the dedicated would be left. Here are a few of the projects: Rolled up barbed wire and fencing wire at the Elbow Ranch, pounded steel posts into the rocks and stretched a wire fence around a guzzler in Beaver, planted trees and browse by Milford, helped replace a fence around a guzzler on the Pauns, planted seeds above Koosharem, and the worst chain-sawed juniper and pinion.

I will say again what I have said before - projects should only be for the advancement of the mule deer.
 
I would love to tie in elk to the DH program!

I'm in my first 3 year period of the program, I spent my time welding, building fence, planting trees. More than my 40 hours worth too! My first year in the program I killed a 2 point with my son Kole by my side, huge point in his life! This year I killed a nice 4 point with my wife by my side. I'm sitting out next year but might sign up again depending on how they handle the program. I picked up archery hunting but still wanted to hunt with my dad, my brother joined too. We hit archery hard and have some close calls, he hunts muzz but my schedule doesn't permit me to go so I don't step foot during that hunt. Then its hunting rifle with uncles, cousins, and dad.

I don't see the negative in it?....


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I love how dirtysanchez caused the hostility so he could cry about it! I've been a dedicated hunter for six years now. I've worked my butt off for my hours on top of paying the high price just to be in the program. If the perks are so great, why are all these haters not in the program? NGB81 sorry your simple post got out of hand. I like your idea. Maybe even just two units would be nice. I am unsure how the extended archery hunts are going to work but that "perk" would be hard to lose. Thanks for your concern.
 
I think a lot of good comes from the DH program, but I think it needs tweaked. I spent 6 years in it. Can't say I ever did a project that I thought was focused on mule deer. I know some projects are, but most aren't.

I'm mainly just trying to point out the pie is only so big and we've already got over half of it sliced up and set aside. I'll play the game and do what I need to do to get a tag, but a lot of guys can't or won't put in the effort to stay in the game.

Anyway we look at it it's a mess and too bad we're in the shape we're in with our deer herds and management.
 
I think a lot of good comes from the DH program, but I think it needs tweaked. I spent 6 years in it. Can't say I ever did a project that I thought was focused on mule deer. I know some projects are, but most aren't.
I'm mainly just trying to point out the pie is only so big and we've already got over half of it sliced up and set aside. I'll play the game and do what I need to do to get a tag, but a lot of guys can't or won't put in the effort to stay in the game.

Anyway we look at it it's a mess and too bad we're in the shape we're in with our deer herds and management.
 
dirty sanchez,

I have spoke to a few DH and they stated you could suck a golfball through a garden hose. Is this true. As far as the name dirty sanchez. there is a few people on hear that would be more than happy to give you one. Mind your own Fu&*(*& Buisness!!!!!!!



"THERES MORE TO LIFE THAN HUNTING, BUT HOW FUN WOULD THAT BE"
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-11 AT 07:51PM (MST)[p]utarchery,
sounds like they take offense and must be true. just sayin
 
Dallin Harris, how the heck are you? Is it still true that you have to sit on a couple of phone books to see over your dash in your truck? Or have you grown enough to ride at Disneyland? Haha I guarantee you wouldn't dare say a comment to my face. Think before you speak you never know who you may be lurking behind their MM handle....hope you are doing good and happy hunting!
 
SW,
Crawl back into your hole.
Boo-Hoo, too many people in the mountains enjoying Gods gift to us. Stay home if it bothers you.
Maybe going canping with the family is during the deer hunt is something a lot of people like to do. Sorry if more people choose this instead of bow hunting. So lets make it so most of these people cant draw a tag at all. Unless you bow hunt of course. Then you get to hunt every year.
 
I think to be issued a general season deer tag you should have to bring in a coyote. would eliminate the one day deer hunters and do wonders for the herds. I heard it from someone else and it seems brilliant.
 
When the dedicated hunter program first started, if a person was in the program and drew a limited entry they could hunt all three seasons. I had a couple of buddies that I was going to put in the limited entry with, who didn't agree with the DH program. They wanted to put in on the rifle hunt (1 in 8 odds), and I told them I wanted to put in for the archery (1 in 3 odds). They said, "I guess if you draw, you will be hunting alone then". Guess what three people hunted all three hunts on the Pauns. unit that year. To this day, I have never let them live it down.
 
Lets give more tags to the DH'ers. Lets let them hunt elk and mt goat and lets let them hunt a month longer than the rest of us. And.....

Give me a break, I was in the program 3 times. I never ... ever....ever...did a project that I thought was worth while. The DWR would actually seem annoyed with us and try to find "something" for me to do. I even ended up mowing the lawn at one of their offices. It was a joke!

Get the DH'ers out there chaining PJ forest, or better yet....killing yotes like the fella above said. Lets make them earn their DH tag by doing something worth while.


"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
ive done 2 rounds in the dh program. to those of you who say you have not done projects that benefit mule deer i want to ask why not? you choose the projects that you do. i have cleared a lot of pinion and juniper trees, done some fence removal, and bought some hours. i feel like these projects have been beneficial to mule deer because most of them were done on the winter ground where i watch deer all winter. find projects that not only benefit the herd but benefit you personally. i have seen some projects where guys hand out flyers, inspect boats, or do work on a historic site. i see this being beneficial because it frees up time that officers can use to patrol or do research.

overall i feel like you can find the benefit to mule deer if you want, if its not worth it to you then get out of the program. its time for me to reapply and i dont want you complaining bunch of db's in the pool with me
 
every hunter should have to do 40 hours for wildlife .get rid of you lazy ass road hunters....amd mm cry babies...
 
I have been a dedicated hunter from the beginning. With the benefits up into the millions I don't see why the fish and game would do away with the program.

I spend most of my time on the wasatch front but I do like to rifle hunt with family elsewhere. As long as they keep the extended units open for archery I am fine with one unit for muzzle loader and rifle tags.
 

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