roadkill recovery

[540BnC]

allright, everyone. i had an interesting thing happen to me today.on the way home to a.f. from heber, i stopped to look at some deer on the hillside near wallsburgh. while i was stopped, i looked down off the hill 15 ft. below me, and saw a very nice 3x4, 26 or 27 inches, dead, having been hit by a car. i could not believe it!! he was a dandy. probably a week or 2 dead, i am sure rutting and not thinking and hit by someone hauling a$$ around deer creek. well, i couldn't just leave him there to rot, right? so i made some calls and got a return call from the regional officer, and arranged a meeting with him to show him the location and ask him about recovering the antlers for myself. is that too much to ask? it was hard for me not to run back to heber to wal-mart, buy a cheap hacksaw, and spend 30 seconds hacking off his head...he would have made a great european mount. but i thought no, i will do the right thing, follow the chain of command, step through the hoops, and do it legally. i hope i dont get screwed! true, i dont have to worry about getting caught with an illegal trophy, no citation, looking over my shoulder, etc. but, when i showed the officer the buck, he coldly said that rarely happened, once they were confiscated, that was usually it, i could send an email to the regional supervisor, explaining and asking for them, and so forth. i have sent my email and will wait for good news or bad news, obviously hoping for good, expecting bad. oh yeah, and when the officer removed the antlers, he cut them seperately, just below the burrs!!!it made me sick to watch him do it. regardless of where they end up, in my garage or in a dwr warehouse, what a shame to ruin a trophy buck like this. what do you guys think? i think i know what alot of MMers would do, and i may not do the same thing next time, but please share your thoughts about "what would you do". thanks guys.

 

[540BnC]

sorry about the pic. quality. all i had was my cel-phone. best i could do.

 

[ShowThemToMe]

Tis where an 18 volt Cordless Sawzall comes in handy

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

 

[monstermuleyman]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-11 AT 03:39PM (MST)[p]As hard as it is... You did the right thing. I hope they let you keep them due to the fact that you DID DO the right thing. Keep us updated.

 

[justr_86]

I highly doubt you will get them... Especially if they cut them off like that.

I found a bull on a LE unit, called DWR and they came out to investigate. He died fighting with another bull. Before the officer left he cut them between the brow tines and then cut the browtine off and threw it away from the carcass... He was a nice bull, I would have liked to have them....

 

[ZR1]

I have found two that I called on The bigger one 175ish 26 wide in velvet perfect four really nice I would say mountable . I didnt get those back and I did jump through the hoops and was persistant. I heard theyt went to auction.
The second was a 20 inch 4point and the dwr officer checked it out at sight and determined it wasnt a poaching and brought me the antlers with a permited for them.
Good luck

 

[hunt4130]

great buck! i would have went back and cut the off!

 

[ditchparrot]

I hope it works out that you get to keep the horns. A guy trys to be honest and do the right thing, it will be a lesson learned either way it turns out. But I know you don't want to get caught sawing off the horns or have the head in the back of your truck and get pulled over.

Good Luck and when you hear a response, post!!

 

[tracker12]

Never could figure out why Western States do that. Out east most states (MD,VA.PA) if you hit a deer with your car it is yours no questions asked. If you find a deer that someone else hits you can still keep the deer if the person hitting the deer does not claim it.

 

[Darktimber]

I wouldn't have thought twice about taking them here in CO. What is the difference of taking an old road kill or taking a dead head while you are out antler hunting? That carcass is pretty in tact though for being two weeks old. They are usually a skeleton within 3-5 days around here with the coyotes, crows, and what not.

 

[540BnC]

of course it could be more recent. there was a softball sized hole in the upper left leg above the tail where the birds had been picking at it. i dont think the temps have been above 45 there for the past week and a half. but clearly it was hit recently. i will post results when they come, hopefully quickly.

 

[gitrdun]

I shot a buck three years ago on the muzzy hunt in a steep rugged canyon. After the shot he ran straight down like they usually do. I knew he expired in the bottom of the canyon. After looking for a while it got dark and we gave up looking for the night. The next day we continued looking for the deer with no luck. Me and my friend are dedicated hunters, so on the rifle hunt, we went down to the same area to look for him while he hunted, as far as I was concerned my hunt was over. Well my buddy found him and marked it on his GPS. Doing what I thought was the honest thing to do, I called the fish and game and told them my story and that I wanted to tag it. They told me it was now their property and I should just continue hunting. They asked for the location and said they would do an investigation and decide if I could have the antlers. I have not heard back from them to this day. I did keep in touch with them on occasion and just gave up after excuses. I understand they probably have many cases to investigate. But I could tell by the sound of the guys voice they had no desire of investigating the animal, granted it was in a very rugged steep canyon where big bucks hide.

 

[pauns08]

Should of just took the horns, I've been screwed by the dwr more than once so from now on I dont even deal with them crooked no good fu##ing as@@oles

 

[BrowningRage]

You are right DarkTimber- there is no difference... Here in Utah, I believe it is technically illegal to pick up a dead head... You're supposed to mark it, report it, and hope the DWR gives them too you after they find and investigate them...

I think you did the right thing. You could get into some trouble if caught takin the head. For the record, I would have WANTED to take them myself, but would probably not go through with it. I have found 2 bucks hit by vehicles in the past. Just 3 points, but hey- antlers are antlers... but I didn't touch 'em. Left 'em for the next guy...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[ishootaRUM300]

Here in Minnesota you find it make a call and it is yours as long as there are no holes. On another note I was out with some BLM guys this summer and we saw a lope that we figured it would snap its neck as it was running down the middle of the road infront of us and darting off the side of the road into the fence. I asked if it did snap its neck if we could stop and pick it up. He said no that it was against the law in wyoming. I said what about taking the head. Same story NO GO. I found it stupid that they are going to let a animal going to waste.

 

[Juniper]

saw a nice chocalate sow get hit on the highway with a buddy of mine. We rolled it over the guard rail down towards a railroad so nobody would mess with it. We called the dwr next morning to tell them about it. They said we could have it if we would show them where it was so they could do some biology tests. Well we showed them where it was and then they said we could not have it!! We even had a bear tag and the hunt was still open!! Jerks!!

 

[rutnbuck]

Ah heck. He probabably had rigimortis. I would have just stood him back up. Let the bypassers enjoy him!!

Rutnbuck

 

[Elmacho]

So....has anyone been caught with a head/rack in their possession that was a dead find? What were the consequences?

 

[GotBowAz]

In Michigan this time of year with the rut in full swing there are dead deer carcasses every mile along the freeway. if there is a buck laying next to the road you won't find a head on it. That's a big waste to me as it is legal to take the deer even if you're the one that hits it provided you have a police report. Most people get reports for insurance purposes. I guess it's not worth their time or trouble to take the deer.

GBA

 

[Roy]

I have seen 3 dead whitetail bucks along the road I take to work this fall. Nobody messes with them, the state doesn't even bother to take the carcass off to the side of the road. They were just small bucks and I am not interested in having antlers I haven't killed myself. But yes, it is a shame to see them just rot. If you hit one and call the Parks and Wildlife Division here in Texas they might come and get it and donate the meat to a shelter or church that runs a soup kitchen or something, I am not sure about the antlers.


HOOK 'EM!
_______________________________________

Since I am frequently asked about my religion on this site and others, I have created a profile that explains my beliefs. If you are interested in finding out more about my faith, please visit the link below:

http://mormon.org/me/6RNQ/

 

[540BnC]

thanks guys. the responses were about what i thought they would be. i have not heard anything yet, dont know if or when i will. i really hope i am rewarded for doing the right thing, but i am realistic enough to know that i may never see it again. there is another thing about this that bothers me: the officer i met with said to write a formal request for the antlers to the regional supervisor, then send it to him and he would forward it to the supervisor. am i just suspicious, or does that seem strange? to me, that is something you would say to make an email or letter disappear, ya know? "yes, i forwarded it for you, and i have not heard anything back," or "sorry the board responded and wanted me to tell you your request was denied." weird. i dont want to slander anyone, because i have no reason to believe that is what would happen, but i thought it was weird. i sent the email request directly to the supervisor, hopefully it will pay off.

 

[540BnC]

still no word from anyone at the dwr. it has been 1 week. i will give them a day or 2 more then fire off another email so i at least will bug them enough to answer. thanks again for all your input guys.

 

[nickman]

Well, I take lots of pictures of the "crime scene", make notes about the find, and pick up the heads.

The nice ones, I give away to friends for decoration and the broken or small antlers, go to the band saw for knife handles, drawer pulls and buttons. I saw some very nice rings made from antler last week, so I may try that out soon.

I avoid ALL discourse with DFG agencies, as they really don't care if you are right or wrong, you are an immediate suspect.

I wouldn't want to know how much time is wasted investigating all cases of dead animal finds that are reported.....Hell, they still don't know who killed JFK and he was actually someone of some importance.

I have been picking up dead heads and road kills for 40 years and I doubt I will stop any time soon. It may not be legally right, but it ain't morally wrong....as if I had poached them.

"If God did not intend for man to hunt animals, he would have made broccoli more fun to shoot"

 

[540BnC]

good post nickman. this is the first time i have contacted the dwr about finding a deadhead and trying to do it legally. sadly, it will probably be the last. i like what you said about legally and morally. i couldnt agree more. if this buck hadnt been 10 feet off of highway 40, i would not have involved anyone. i would have done it quick and quiet, and it would be hanging in the garage, european style.
thanks for the thoughts.

 

[540BnC]

this is the response i got from the regional director. at least i think that is his title.

Jeremy,

Our wildlife disposal policy gives me the latitude to donate big game antlers and horns to people when an officer has concluded his investigation and has determined that the animal either died of natural causes, or there's no reason to believe that it didn't. In those cases, the antlers are removed with the skull plate so they can be mounted by the person who receives the donation receipt from the officer.

In this case, the buck didn't die of natural causes, it was struck by a vehicle, so I'm not authorized to donate them to you or anyone else.

Thanks for notifying the officer that a buck was hit in his district. Your actions prevented someone else from obtaining them illegally.

Thanks,

John

 

[540BnC]

this was my response back to him. i hope i will still draw tags in the future. i never know if something like this will blackball me from future opportunities, ya know?

that is very disappointing. so what happens to the antlers in a situation like this? does the officer take them home and keep them for himself? 1 of the perks of the job?
i know several people who routinely pick up roadkill antlers. they live in areas where roadkill is more common, and i have even heard of people who carry cordless sawzalls in their trucks to make quick work of this when they need to. it makes me too nervous to do that, hence the reason i made some phone calls and tried to acquire them legally. i dont know if that was the right choice or not. i have a close friend who likes to say "there is no market for nice guys." perhaps he is right.
i also know of instances where hunters have found dead animals, wounded and died later, maybe shot out of season, etc. and when they were with an officer to show them the location of the animal, they cut the antlers off and immediately gave them to the citizen, and it was clear that it had been shot by someone, legally or illegally.
i dont see the logic in the policy you are referring to. i did not shoot the deer, clearly. no one did. it was accidentally killed on the road. that should be a cut and dried case of "sure, you obviously did not shoot this buck to get the horns. here you go. thanks for calling us."
perhaps if your policies were more rewarding to people more people would do the right thing. why should anyone try to do things legally if the rewards come from doing them illegally?
weird.
thanks for nothing.

 

[NickJ1980]

The antlers get auctioned off and my guess is the proceeds go back to the Division of Wildlife. The purpose of not giving out racks from roadkill is to prevent the inbred 5% of the population from running down bucks on purpose for the antlers or from poaching one then claiming the rack came from a roadkill later.

Matter of fact, Colorado is the same way despite popular belief to the contrary. They're especially strict in cases where the roadkilled animal falls under the definition of a trophy under the "Samson" law, which is any buck with a 22+" inside spread for a mule deer.

 

[RutCrazed]

>this was my response back to
>him. i hope i will
>still draw tags in the
>future. i never know if
>something like this will blackball
>me from future opportunities, ya
>know?
>
>that is very disappointing. so what
>happens to the antlers in
>a situation like this? does
>the officer take them home
>and keep them for himself?
>1 of the perks of
>the job?
> i know several people who
>routinely pick up roadkill antlers.
>they live in areas where
>roadkill is more common, and
>i have even heard of
>people who carry cordless sawzalls
>in their trucks to make
>quick work of this when
>they need to. it makes
>me too nervous to do
>that, hence the reason i
>made some phone calls and
>tried to acquire them legally.
>i dont know if that
>was the right choice or
>not. i have a close
>friend who likes to say
>"there is no market for
>nice guys." perhaps he is
>right.
>i also know of instances where
>hunters have found dead animals,
>wounded and died later, maybe
>shot out of season, etc.
>and when they were with
>an officer to show them
>the location of the animal,
>they cut the antlers off
>and immediately gave them to
>the citizen, and it was
>clear that it had been
>shot by someone, legally or
>illegally.
>i dont see the logic in
>the policy you are referring
>to. i did not shoot
>the deer, clearly. no one
>did. it was accidentally killed
>on the road. that should
>be a cut and dried
>case of "sure, you obviously
>did not shoot this buck
>to get the horns. here
>you go. thanks for calling
>us."
>perhaps if your policies were more
>rewarding to people more people
>would do the right thing.
>why should anyone try to
>do things legally if the
>rewards come from doing them
>illegally?
>weird.
>thanks for nothing.


Mark Twain once said, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt", you should have listened to him!
I know you were just trying to do the right thing with all the phone calls and e-mails, but your response to the director was way out of line. Basically what you did was tell him that you know people who have or are currently breaking the law and that you also possibly know about conservation officers that are breaking the law, how does that help plead your case? The fact of the matter is due to a few a-holes out there the state had to develop a policy to deal with this exact thing and even though it didn't work out in your favor, it is still their policy. Maybe next time instead of throwing your tantrum and threatening to break the law if you ever get the chance again you should take the time to thank him for his response and explanation, I am sure he has a lot more important things to do than respond to your e-mail.

Rut

 

[540BnC]

interesting reply, rut. thanks for the viewpoint. i can see what you mean. surely he knows that there are people out there who cut horns off as soon as an animal gets hit. my reply to him was in frustration, true, but i dont think totally out of line. sorry if i appear foolish. i just really was frustrated that i took several hours out of my day, spent money to drive for 90 mins, and then had nothing to show for it. selfish maybe, but how i felt. i hope he has time to respond to the emails of the sportsmen of this state, whatever the topic. i think that is part of his job.

 

[TOPGUN]

I didn't see any real problem with your response back to him until I got to the flippant "Thanks for nothing" closure! That really wasn't too adult like!!!

 

[pookiebar]

+1 on your reply. "Thanks for nothing" is not a real effective way of making the guy take you seriously.

But other then that I agree 100% with what you replied to him.

 

[elkun]

roadkill not a natural death. ???

 

[shedhead]

a few years back i found one just the same as you. just off the road where there is high traffic. I just cut the head off and never said anything. well about a week had gone by cleaned it,bleached it and put it on a plaque and i was sitting home one night and the dwr showed up at my doorstep saying someone reported my plate cutting off a head. long story short, they took the head and was going to prosicute me for poaching until i took them to the carcus and showed them that it was hit by a car. they said that if it had been a trophy (26 inch four point or larger) that they could take my rights away because it is against the law to do what i did. this was a 25 in three point and the office cited me with a warning. so you did the right thing i dont think i would dare do it a again....

 

[whiteshadow]

Too bad, I wondered what happen to that buck, I saw him on the road more than I saw him on the island, nice buck but nothing to get too worked up about

 

[Flint]

It is funny how perspectives change with time. When I was a teen, no one really cared about antlers. We would go to the town dump after the deer season and cut antlers off discarded deer heads so we could use them for craft projects. Most were two and three points, but there was an occasional nice four point buck. People just chucked the heads with antlers still attached because they wanted the meat, not the antlers.

 

[2lumpy]

It might be the old principal of supply and demand. When I was a teen we thought there was an endless supply, and when we went to the dump we knew it was true, they were laying everywhere.

As demand has increased and supply has tightened the scarcity factor has come into play.

People are willing to spend $20,000 plus for free range mule deer and more for some whitetail hunts, on private property, because they know that there are so few animals and so few places they can fulfill their antler dreams. In the old days, they could just head out the back door. Who would'a thunk it?

DC
Utah Mule Deer
1,200,000 - 900,000
BRING IT ON

 

[shedhead]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-12 AT 02:13PM (MST)[p]this wasnt the island buck, i got that one! this was one i found on 201

 

[Zeke]

Cast and road-killed antlers are like finding cold body fluids on my sheets..... they're neat when they were warm but of no value when cold (according me).

I can't figure out what the alure is all about.

Now if it was sheep horns or a 200" buck.... well... that's different. LOL

Zeke

 

[540BnC]

thanks for the personal experience, shed. something like this is exactly what i did not want to happen, hence the call to the dwr.
also, looking back after some cool down time, i suppose thanks for nothing was probly not the best way to close. but the whole ordeal was a waste of time, i guess that is where that comment came from.
thanks for the input and thoughts, all who responded.

 

[ditchparrot]

Sorry to hear the bad news! I was wondering what was going on with this.. It's unfortunate but I've seen it plenty that the good guy gets the shaft. Well take it as a lesson learned I guess..

I may be off and hope it makes sense, but one factor in your situation is that you found the deer near the roadway, which is why it is determined not to have died from natural causes..apparently

If you look at the other post, "Dead buck found in Mill Creek" the hunter found a dead buck, I'm assuming not near any road, let it lay there for a while in an attempt to find a person who may have hit it and lost it, turned it in to the Fish and Game and he was allowed to keep the whole head and also got a permit for it??

There just may be too much Officer discresion?

Just sayin...