Serious Voting Proposal: Dismantle the Wildlife board

T

TheElitehornhunter

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 09:05AM (MST)[p]I would like to pass this along.....

The Wildlife board has the power to set wildlife policies according to their own arbitrary desires. They not only have the ability to completely ignore recommendations by the DWR, they are now showing a track record of doing just that! Ignoring policy and plans presented by the wildlife professionals.

I really don't understand how such an arbitrary board of people can wield so much power in this state. IMO, its time to disband it.

I propose we get a Proposition on the ballet for this next years election cycle, to disband the Utah State Wildlife Board, and return the decision making process to the DWR.

I don't agree with all of the decisions the DWR makes, but I am much more confident in their long term ability to direct our wildlife management than the wildlife board, which seems to be driven by outside influences and comprised of people with no wildlife college education requirements.
 
Can anyone think of ONE group that is more qualified than the DWR in making wildlife decisions??????
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 08:40AM (MST)[p]Yes, what we need is educated people that know about wildlife issues. The DWR should have the right to change any policy made by the silly Wildlife Board.

We need a board that puts the wildlife first instead a the Wildlife Board being influenced by special interests groups to make decisions for a profit.
 
>we just need a wildlife borad
>. that works for the
>gen public,,,,,

No, you need a board that works fairly for ALL hunters and uses the biological data provided them to make the best choices for everyone. I don't know how your Commission is appointed but I would assume by the governor. So you need a governor with big enough balls to appoint a fair and representative board. Do a little research on Nevada's experiences for the last 5 or 6 years. We finally got a Governor that has the balls and believes in fairness.


Change starts at the top. And often times the top is changed at the voting booth.
 
elite we often disagree on things but not on this
+1
I dont understand why we have the dwr if we dont use them. the guys on the board have no qualifications to be over ruling the dwr.

if we keep a wildlife board, than allow dwr to have the final say.
 
So if you think the people on the board are stupid why dont you go listen to the dipsh** that runs the dwr and tell me who should be making the choices. I sure dont want him making the choices i like hunting trophy animals and if he had his way we would all be shooting 2 points and spikes. also for you to say thats to much power for one group then what are you doing by handing all the power to the dwr. if your unhappy with what we have then go to the board meetings and rac meeting and voice your opinion. by the way what has the board done that you are so upset about
 
Hahaha this is why I like this forum. No one is forcing you to shoot two points, but yourself.

So if the DWR isn't capable of making wildlife decisions then who is?

Big6 there needs to be a check and balances
 
As Per Normal,Elite thinks the DWR is GOD Almighty & thinks they are the only ones capable of managing Game!

They've done a Piss Poor job and if this cost's me an LE Permit again this year like it did last year sobeit!

Truth Hurts & people like Elite suck their BS in!






Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
I never said that the DWR is GOD almighty. They have made their share of mistakes, but there mistakes are sure of heck a lot less than others.

So Bessy answer the question.....If the DWR isn't qualified to make wildlife management decisions then who is?????
 
I never said I would be running it. BUT I don't know of any other group more qualified then the DWR and I guess you don't know either because you can't name one either.
 
You might be right Elite!

There may not be anybody on Earth that can run a Deer Herd in to the ground any better than they have!

Maybe it's time somebodyelse steps up to the plate?

So tell me Elite?

If you had a Herd of Animals(And I don't GAD what kind!)that was your livelyhood & you depended on that herd to make you money & a living would you manage it as the DWR has managed their Herd?

Or would you manage your Herd to prosper & make you money in the Future?

CowBoy-Up Cupcake!


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]Yep I knew you couldn't answer my question Bessy hahaha thanks for proving my point.

You always seem try to answer a question with other question or you completely dodge the question because we both know what your answer would be unless you were dishonest.

You do more complaining than anyone that there is no deer. Well keep complaining and I will keep shooting trophy bucks in Utah's public lands.
 
You mean your 5 Trophy Does Right?(250 Feathers in your Hat!)

Let me go see what the Question was?

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
I didn't shoot the does hillbilly. Young hunters did. Maybe you should come hunting with me and I will show you some nice bucks so you can shut up about there is no deer in Utah.
 
>I never said that the DWR
>is GOD almighty. They have
>made their share of mistakes,
>but there mistakes are sure
>of heck a lot less
>than others.
>
>So Bessy answer the question.....If the
>DWR isn't qualified to make
>wildlife management decisions then who
>is?????

Pay attention Elite!

If the DWR isn't Qualified what the Hell are they doing?They should be the Professionals Right Elite?

I'd say it's kinda like the Presidential Election Elite,After decades of Piss Poor management it would take a Real Dumb-Ass to even try & straighten the mess out when everybody knows it's a little too late,they've both dug holes & ain't got a clue on how to get out of them!

You ain't helping matters,5 FRICKEN Does,GEEZUS!

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
I never said:"There are No Deer"!

I said the Utah Deer herd is Suffering!

I'm gonna take you up on the Big Buck offer!

This NE Region "PISSCUTTER Track POT PIE" I'm chewing on this year is kinda thin!

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
The DWR hasn't been making the decisions right now hence the reason to get rid of the Wildlife Board. We don't need the Wildlife Board and SFW and other special interest groups having the final say. The DWR needs to have more power in the decision making process.

Have you ever been to a Wildlife Board meeting? The DWR isn't making the FINAL decisions.

There needs to be more accountability placed upon the Wildlife Board.

Bessy, if your going to blame someone then you need to place the blame where it belongs.
 
We need to hold the SFW accountable for reducing tags in the 90s with no positive results.

They should only be allowed to receive auction tags when they produce results. They have FAILED, but you give them a free pass, WHY?
 
Ya,seems I've been to a few meetings in my day!

The NE region of Sportsmen Input is as good as any!

Ain't real funny the NE Region Sportsmen Input means very little!

You can blame who/whatever you want Elite,as long as you think you know everything and you're claiming the UDWR's hands are tied,I'm sick & f'n tired of hearing that lame excuse,they've had many years to change things but HAVE NOT,one bunch blaming the other bunch,that chit is gettin old Elite!

They've all throwed the Blame around in circles for years,total BS!

If you ain't smart enough Elite to see the Utah Deer Herd is in Trouble you're blinder than I thought you were?

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Every time there is a wildlife management decision we should just take a poll here on MM. The world's foremost experts on game management are right here at our fingertips ;-)

I think the wildlife board and maybe DWR director postitions should be elected. Everyone that buys a license or wildlife habitat stamp (for non-hunters) gets one vote. The vote could take place during the big game draw period. Potential board memebers and DWR director can campaign and make their platforms known. If they are all about herd health and long term sustainability or if they are all about growing the biggest bucks and bulls, or whatever their position might be. Let all the guys with great ideas run for a spot and let the majority of hunters pick their guys. You would probably have to have campagin contribution limits though or SFW would donate big $$$ to get their guy in office.
 
I never said the deer aren't struggling, but we need to make better decisions when it comes to the deer herd in Utah than we have in the past.

Bessy, I'm just saying you should put the blame where it belongs. If you can't see that then your a blind fool. Sure the DWR has made some stupid mistakes, but to place all the blame on them and NOT on the Wildlife Board and groups like SFW is laughable because of the foolishness.
 
Well Big Med!

I'll start the 1st vote:

When the Utah Deer Herd is in Piss Poor shape should we keep issuing 'Doe Shooter' Hunts because of GREED & poor management Habits?

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Bessy how should the DWR deal with deer that farmers do not want on their lands?
 
>I never said the deer aren't
>struggling, but we need to
>make better decisions when it
>comes to the deer herd
>in Utah than we have
>in the past.
>
>Bessy, I'm just saying you should
>put the blame where it
>belongs. If you can't see
>that then your a blind
>fool. Sure the DWR has
>made some stupid mistakes, but
>to place all the blame
>on them and NOT on
>the Wildlife Board and groups
>like SFW is laughable because
>of the foolishness.

So Elite?

Who's the Boss/Owner?

DWR?

Wildlife Board?

SFW?

Or Who?

Quit shifting the Blame & Cowboy-Up!

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Well Elite!

It's a tough situation,I won't argue that!

Last Winter we got hit with a Big Storm in December!

Several Hay Stacks were demolished!

Most of the Stack sites had fencing the DWR had delivered with the agreement the landowner installs/puts the fence up,but the fencing had never been put up so the DWR shot alot of Big Game animals around here,makes perfect sense right?WAFJ!

Gonna be a few problems here & there Elite!

I'd place money on a bet saying if & when them problem Deer cause problems we could round up enough Volunteers to relocate some Deer rather than issuing a bunch of un-called for Doe Tags!

I think for the most part,Quality deer Hunting in Utah is a done deal,unless you wanna go up & compete in the Pumpkin Patch for a Pisscutter!



Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Well Elite!

Let's say you were the Boss!

We make donations to EliteHornHunter!

We send Our Applications in to Elite!

Elite has started this Business in hopes to survive/eat/prosper!

Elite hopefully knows what generates a good Income?

Elite should be smart enough to know there are a few different needs/wants!

Elite should know he can't satisfy everybody but he runs the Business the best He can!

Does Elite get GREEDY & change his name to Eliminate?

Or does Elite look in to the Future further than tomorrow morning & does things the right way even though he can't satisfy every TARD in the state?

You ever wonder what would happen Elite if the DWR went Bankrupt?

Who would take over?

When you have nothing left to sell it could get Ugly Elite!

I could go on & on & on but I won't!

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
>Well Elite!
>
>Let's say you were the Boss!
>
>
>We make donations to EliteHornHunter!
>
>We send Our Applications in to
>Elite!
>
>Elite has started this Business in
>hopes to survive/eat/prosper!
>
>Elite hopefully knows what generates a
>good Income?
>
>Elite should be smart enough to
>know there are a few
>different needs/wants!
>
>Elite should know he can't satisfy
>everybody but he runs the
>Business the best He can!
>
>
>Does Elite get GREEDY & change
>his name to Eliminate?
>
>Or does Elite look in to
>the Future further than tomorrow
>morning & does things the
>right way even though he
>can't satisfy every TARD in
>the state?
>
>You ever wonder what would happen
>Elite if the DWR went
>Bankrupt?
>
>Who would take over?
>
>When you have nothing left to
>sell it could get Ugly
>Elite!
>
>I could go on & on
>& on but I won't!
>
>
>Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
>


Well If I were boss and had full control then I would use the following steps:

I would focus more attention on the range conditions that I have then on the number of deer living on the range because if I had good browse then I couldn't help but have good mule deer numbers because mule deer are a byproduct of a good range.

I would allow more sheep grazing in some areas because sheep help open up the range to more browse plants that deer like. Grasses hold in moisture which can choke out browse plants. I would clear out more juniper trees on the winter range.

I would rage an all out war on coyotes, and I would offer more bounties for coyotes. A bear tag or cougar tag could be purchased with a deer permit in some areas that is over the objective.

I would focus more on the fawns to help them reach adulthood so that they can produce offspring which would help increase the deer population and more bucks would be a byproduct of fawn survival rates.

Sorry Bessy to be continued.....I need to get a few things done.
 
elite. sounds just like what sfw has been doing for the last 10 years??? but i do think the wildlife borad needs some work.....
 
Elkun +1 on the sfw comment now elite the board is the answer to your question. like i said about the two points we wouldnt have a choice with the current dwr because there eyes only see $$$$$$$ and they themselves will tell you if you take tags away then we will have to raise more money somwhere else. So here is my suggestion cut 20,000 tags raise the permit cost to $45 and the still come out thousands ahead. plus implement the stuff you said that the sfw is already doing and that is just a small start i would rather see the tag price at 100 and they cut 50000 then let the dwr take controll
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]Cutting tags isn't going to increase our deer herds because it doesn't address the main issues that our mule deer are facing. Harvesting bucks isn't the issue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-11 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]SFW has been focused more on lining their pockets with money. They made the proposal to cut deer tags in the 90s, but here we are today in 2011 and our deer herds are still struggling. It sounds like SFW isn't doing a very good job if they have been caring for our deer herd. How much more time should we allow them. 20, 30, 40 years?

Maybe if we just keep cutting tags and pour money into it then we can fix the issue. SFW thinks a lot like Obama on how to solve issues.
 
cutting tags didnt work before it wont work now .give a man a tag thats good for 2 years he pays upfront can only kill one deer. the working man can afford it , dwr gets thier money. we cut the deer kill down. gen hunter wins. the sporting goods store wins. the gro. store wins....all of you that want to cut tags . just dont go...but dont tell me and my grand kids we cant go.....
 
We already have something like this.......It's called the dedicated hunter program.
 
Im not telling you or your grand kids to stay home why do you have to have a tag to go out with the family thats what everybody says well thats our family time bullsh** you dont have to have a tag to spend time with family my cousin had a pauns tag myself and 3 others had general tags but because we wanted to see him get a good buck we didnt hunt he ate tag soup but did we complain he** no cause we still had a good time
 
What is the next step and how do we make it happen? Where do I sign? Let's get the wildlife board illigitimized!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 06:41AM (MST)[p]ELite where are you from if i took a guess i bet your in northern utah your an archery hunter that likes the statewide and you dont want yo give that up and you dont want a shorter archery season and you like th wasatch extended. I know i will catch chit over this but if i was a board member i woul push for a 15 day archery season make them stay in one region nobody would be hunting deer during th most critical time of the year for them. i would also push for unit by unit closure on struggling units other then one rifle hunt for managmentbucks only. all you guys that say we dont have a shortage of good bucks thats bs. i can go out and find a good buck no problem killing them is different but look at the big picture and the whole state is a failure.
 
No, you're a very bad guesser. I don't live in Northern Utah and I have only hunted archery twice in my entire life. We might have low buck numbers in certain areas of the state and we need to address this issue and we were with the old management plan. Killing bucks doesn't affect the overall herd. Instead of focusing on BUCKS and how big they are then WE NEED TO FOCUS ON FAWN SURVIVAL RATES. If we help the survival rates of our fawns so that they reach adulthood and produce offspring then we will have more bucks. Bucks don't give birth to fawns.

There are many parts of the state that have a lot of bucks on General Season Units and every year hunters are posting pictures of these bucks. BUT big bucks don't get big by being stupid and many often manage to disappear when the hunting season comes and then they show up again during the rut and winter ranges.
 
I agree with you 100% with needing to get a better fawn crop but how can we do this by getting rid of board members. what needs to be done is we need to take some pressure off the herd we chase these animals for pretty much 90 days a year and if we dont have mature bucks then does wont be breed untill the second cycle causing fawns to be born later. so how does the board have anything to do with this because i dont see where they are affecting it. like dc said in another post there will always be flaws and unhappy people but how do they please everybody. also sombody mentioned gifts the board recieves and im still wanting to know what kind of gifts they get cause the board member i know sure hasnt seen any gifts from anybody.
 
Because the Wildlife Board only made the decision to manage hunters instead of wildlife. The WB makes more decisions that are social issues then wildlife issues Killing bucks isn't the reason why deer are struggling.

Always the same old argument we need mature bucks to breed the does in their first cycle otherwise the fawns are born late, but if this is true, (BTW it never gets answered so if you can't then I understand.) then why do we have low fawn survival rates on the Bookcliffs, San Juan, Vernon etc.?

PLEASE ANSWER WHY SOME LE UNITS HAVE LOW FAWN SURVIVAL RATES???????????

Because maybe he has been a very naughty person and only gets a lump of coal ;)
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 09:05AM (MST)[p]Also why your at it please answer why the Henry mountain deer herd is growing very slow.

Most LE units are below population objectives. You would think with all those mature bucks running around breeding the does and limited number of buck tags these units would be at objective or above objective.
 
big 6. you dont have a clue. we dont have to cut hunters. we need to cut how many bucks get taken . ive not shot a deer in 4 years. iam a ded. hunter. thier is ways to do this with out cuting tags. but some sfw people know the harder it is to get a tag. the more they are worth .cwmus. banqutes. witch one do you want' more deer or more money????
 
I cant answer for the books and the vernon but here is my theory on the henrys i have been down there every other weekend since sept 21st looking for buffalo every weekend im down there i am almost always in a new area and down there i am finding a fresh cougar track in almost every place and from talking to houndsman they say there is quite a few down there beause nobody hunts it hardley compared to other surrounding units so thats a huge factor in fawn survival plus we have some pretty hard winters down there and some other factors. but thats my own opinion
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 10:33AM (MST)[p]Elite, I'm pretty sure that they have just started to go after peditors agressively and improve habitat down there in just the last few years. The way I see it, managing hunters is just another piece of the puzzle to be able to get the big picture of seeing more bucks in the field. You make it sound like they have completely thrown out the mule deer plan and are only going to cut tags. When really, cutting tags is only adding to everything else that is being done.

Maybe you guys that hate the system so bad could go campout at one of the Salt Lake City parks and then picket the expo. You could call the movement "Occupy Wildlife Board".
 
Ok then if this is true then why not find out why other areas are struggling before creating more bandaids by cutting tags. Why can't we just fix the real issue instead of ignoring it. If the Henry mountain herd is struggling not because of hunters, but because of other issues then cutting tags isn't going to solve anything on General Season units. All it does is make more hunters sit at home when there isn't any real reason to do so.

Cutting tags should be one of the last options, not the first option. Again we have cut tags and it hasn't done anything.
 
Well theres a contradiction we dont need less hunters but we need less bucks killed. how do you suggest that if ya know so much im not saying i know everything an im not saying thats the best way to do im just saying that everybody can come up with a million differnt management plans an there i always going to be crybabies cause they cant have a tag every year
 
What is being done right now to help our fawns survive their first winter????? Ridgetop, you need to put your focus somewhere than seeing big bucks in the field because big bucks were fawns at one time. More fawns surviving equals more bucks in the field. More fawns surviving means the herd population is increasing.
 
Serious proposal? Never have taken anything you say serious. Why start now. You may need to head back over to UWN for support.

Elkoholic.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-11-11 AT 10:56AM (MST)[p]BUt who wants to talk about fawns? We all want bucks, but I guess hunters don't realize that bucks were fawns at one time. The reason most don't want to focus on fawns is because it requires work. We need to lace up our boots and work our ass off so we settle on bandaids because it's easier then stopping the bleeding.

As long as we continue our focus on seeing more bucks in the field without helping our fawns survival rate then our deer herds will continue to struggle.
 
Because you constantly ignore the truth and choose to continue your wallowing in your own stupidity like a pig in the mire.
 
big 6. ive allready told how to do it ,your just to dumb to see it..put your money where mouth is .you and yours stop hunting for the next 4 years. yah thats what i thought......
 
Elite, fawns have now become a big focus but until we/they figure out how to better the survival rate, tags need to be cut to get a more balanced buck to doe ratio on many units. Having shorter hunting days just was not cutting it. the success rate was pretty much the same. When the herds come back, then we can think about giving out more tags. I can't believe you think that unlimited permits would be good for the deer herds. Believe it or not the "social reasons" are very important in management.
 
Ridge we cut tags back in the early 90s and here we are almost in 2012 with the same issue, therefore; cutting tags hasn't done anything. Again, killing bucks isn't the issue because LE units are facing the same problems that General Season units are facing.

Maybe we can just keeping cutting and cutting tags like Obama keeps wanting to pour more and more money into the economy to make things work ;)

I never said one word about unlimited tags. There are also better ways to increase the buck to doe ratio instead of cutting tags.
 
What by becoming a dedicated hunter oh wait ive been one since i could hunt and the smallest buck i have taken was a 18 inch 2 point my first year i could hunt everybody that knowa m and hunts with me knows that i hunt for management reasons i yh buck is young i wont kill it if the buck is a 3 point ill take it if its a trophy and or mature i will take it i dont hunt just for the meat and horns i do it to enjoy getting out if i kill thats a bonus i kill a deer about every three to four years so why dont you tell me where to put my money why dont you just tell everybody how to hunt and how they should manage the deer since your so smart and got it all figured out yah thats what i thought oh wait i forgot i dont think
 
Elite, by stating that the tag cuts in the early 90s didn't work. Is saying that we should have kept it at unlimited tags statewide. I can't imagine how hard it would be for the average joe to find a buck over 1 1/2 years old if we would have had 300k hunters per year for the last 20 years.
What other ways can we increase the buck to doe ratio? Kill more does?
I'd rather hunt a 9 day season ever 3-5 years than a 3 day hunt every year.

There's always next year
 
So what this really is about for you is that your having a hard time finding mature bucks, is this true? I don't have a hard time finding mature bucks, but I have to sacrifice because of your incompetences????

You would like to have more general season units like the bookcliffs so that it takes little effort to kill a decent buck?

We can increase the buck/doe ratio by giving more tags to primitive weapons. Changing season dates around etc.

Ridge you keep focusing on bucks, bucks, bucks, but what about the FAWNS?????

So if you would rather hunt 3 to 5 years then do it, but don't change the rules because of your incompetences to find big bucks.
 
elite i cant wait to see you lace up yer boots in may and head out through the woods with a bottle to suckle fawns into great health.

man yer head must be barry bonds sized and you must walk around with a sore back with all the back slapping you give yerself. you are so awsome!
 
big 6.. you ask me how it would or could work. i told you. now you are all pissed off because you made yourself look really stupid. and they let you have a gun????
 
You serious typed this......Never once did I ever say we need to bottle feed fawns. Talk about not even paying attention.
 
The meeting I attended last year, the DWR did not want to change anything regarding deer in Utah.

How can anyone support no change? When you manage something as dynamic as deer populations, your management needs to have some kind of dynamic component to it. At the very least, the new system gives management a control measure and the ability to react to declines/growth of deer populations in specific areas in the state.


There does need to be some kind of checks and balances system. But, when money is the driving force behind management that seems like it's tough to do. When you listen to the wildlife board speak, they seem to "manage" off of their feelings. My take anyway.

The DWR uses models to manage the deer in this state. Those models are only as good as the information you put into them.

Here's an excellent example presented by Grizzly as to why letting the DWR manage deer without some kind of checks and balance system is somewhat scary. http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID30/1437.html His post is towards the bottom.


BH
 
Well if ya told me i must be missing somthing cause you havent said anything and im not pissed i just think its funny that people dont get that you could have 2 ideas and present them to the board or whoever and no matter wich one they pick your going to make people mad and have the people bitchand moan just like people are now well guess what its been done and we cant change it fo another year oh well and ya they let me carry a gun and i bet i could carry it and your and probably shoot both better then you could dream of and if i look stupid so be it atleast ive said what i would like to see done rather then just beat a dead horse
 
Now it's time for you two to get a room!:D

Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Hunters like me huh well since ya know me so well what kinf of hunter am i and when you can tell me that then i will tell you what kind of hunter i am
 
So do you guys really think we have cut tags from 250,000 in the state to 97,000 in the state. I say this is BS. All we did was keep every guy from having 3 or 4 tags in his back pocket. That is all the tag cuts done. We still have the same amount of hunters in the field has we had back in the 80s, the only diff, every hunter doesn't have 2 or 4 tags in his back pocket. We haven't cut anything. Its time to cut tags we have to start somewhere we can't keep doing what we are doing it is not working.
 
Elite,
You make no sense. Both the DWR and the Wildlife Board agree that the deer herd has some issues. The entire state agrees that the deer are in trouble. There are some changes that have been made to hopefully help the deer herd and all you can do is try and get people fired. Serious?
Maybe we should of all just sat around and done nothing. Sounds like a real good plan. Then who you gonna fire?
 
Oh you shouldnt have said that elkcum is going to jump down your throat for that comment because he dont think cutting tags is saving bucks lives
 
big 6. now you get some rest tonight. youve had a rough day. well play again some time,,
 
Im still waiting for an answer elkun what kind of hunter am i you can call names but you wont answer questions very well
 
I think we all can agree that our deer are struggling. I never said they weren't. I said we need to focus on real results instead of bandaids. Many experts in Wildlife agree that cutting tags and saving bucks isn't going to fix the issue until our fawn survival rate is addressed. Until then we keep making stupid policies that does nothing to help our struggling deer herds.

Hunters aren't the problem. These kind of thoughts are driven by PETA.
 
This thread is a perfect example of why our deer herd sucks. It appears there aren't 2 people on this thread who agree on a solution. So what happens? We spend our energy bickering with each other like an old, married couple who's kids have left the house & now they've discovered they never really did like each other & are dreading spending the rest of their lives together...

Here's my input. Anyone with an idea, GO FOR IT!

Figure out how to make changes in the current system & then apply your energy there.

Don't waste your time trying to get a bunch of bickering morons to support your ideas. You don't need them. You need to make changes in the Utah game management system & Monster Muleys is NOT that system.

The current system has had ample time to make a positive impact on Utah's deer herd and has clearly failed.

Bring on change.

Guy
 
Up until the mid 80's you could buy a lion or bear permit over the counter. It was good for a lion or bear anywhere in the state. The DWR decided to cut lion and bear tags and start a draw process to obtain permits. Almost instantly our deer herd took a nose dive! Coincidence?
 
If anyone thinks that the DWR isn't working on a solution to increase fawn survival rates, you are simply blind or or live in the twilight zone. Some here have brought up predation issues-- a couple of RAC meetings ago, the Big Game biologist stated that there is growing evidence that once big game populations fall to a certain level, predation seems to be the major factor in continued depressed population levels. In other words-- the existing deer herds are unable to out produce predator kills (including the other factors). The DWR and other sportsman entities have put more money into range/habitat improvement in the last 10 years than all the other surrounding states combined. It takes 10 years for those lands to begin to be viable feed producing areas.
Elite-- go on line and look for the studies with graphs that show the decline of Mule deer populations in the West and the ban of 1080 poison to control predators-- The graph lines show a marked decrease in deer poulations and they have never come close to recovering since then. There are other factors involved for sure, but it certainly seems to be the major factor that continues to this day.
You might ask why the UDOT is replacing the fencing from Spanish Fork and south along I-15 with new fencing-- it would sure make more sense to me that they spend the $1,000,000 for fencing on the unprotected, unfenced areas where the deer get slaughtered every winter !
While some may disagree with the Wildlife Board and its decisions and accuse them of some kind of uninformed, biased decisions, I personally believe that the bottom line is, that they are more concerned with the survival ,health and growth of the deer herds than whether or not you or me shoots a mature 4 pt every year. Remember, they don't get paid for what they do. Trashing them or saying we should be able to vote for them would only increase the voice of one particular special interest group or another. The WF board is one of the only entities that truly can exert leverage with the DWR. Also, remember this-- the DWR does not have to comply with the WF boards decision if they believe it to be biologically unsound or inappropriate. Generally they do comply with the boards decisions because it represents the general publics voice. They will never please everyone.
One last thing-- the DWR runs on money-- just like you and me. To say that they are just trying to "line their pockets" is inappropriate. They are required by state statute to live within a budget, which in most years requires them to be self sufficient financially. They can't spend more than they bring in. It is just part of the equation. Do they sometimes make decisions based on the financial impacts, yes of course they do, but it will always be within the broad spectrum of biological management. Remember, the biological evidence says that you only need 5 bucks per 100 does to biologically produce enough fawns each year. In areas that could easily support more animals there is nothing wrong with having 25 bucks/100 does either.
Most of what is decided by The DWR and the WF board is weighted heavily on what the public wants. And, as long as it falls within the "biological" parameters that doesn't threaten the "minimum biological standards" and health of a deer herd, what the WF board decides, will probably happen.
 

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