Lifetime and Dedicated

D

dh9815

Guest
I was just looking at the link from the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources that tracks the number of Dedicated Hunters that have chosen there guaranteed unit choice for this upcoming year. Currently 167 hunters have already chosen Thousand Lake. The Lifetime people haven't even chosen yet. This is a unit that typically gives out a total of about 35 tags per year across archery, muzzle and rifle. We now will have 167 Dedicated and very likely as least that many Lifetime on a unit with below buck to doe ratios already with 35 tags. Look for 300 hunters on a unit that currently cannot support 35. That does not sound like wise wildlife management to me. Am I missing something here or will there not be wholesale slaughter on that unit that will not allow it to rebound for many, many years? This appears to be a monumental blunder in assuming that the tags would naturally spread themselves out across 30 units. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
well the reason it was 35 is becuase it was limited entry to control the quality. now its general and no diff than any other general unit. all struggling and too many tags given out.
 
Just because they "choose" that specific unit doesn't mean they get that tag. They shouldn't give out more tags than the unit can handle, but then again, they have made some poor decisions in the past far worse than that. In the past, when you apply for a tag there has been columns for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd choices that really didn't mean anything other than to make you feel like you had more chances. These will now come in to play. People that apply for the Thousand Lakes unit for their first choice will now be using their second choice for something else. I would think, and hope, that DH and lifetime license holders will have to make that same choice. I thought that was the whole idea with the 30 unit thing. Spread out the pressure and manage wildlife on a unit by unit basis. I guess time will tell. If it doesn't work out the way then wiley and packout will stop patting my back and start kicking my butt!:)


It's always an adventure!!!
 
U can bet your ass the Dwr will allocate way more than just 300 tags on the Thousand Lake for this years hunt. Every unit will get pounded by hunters, it will be interesting to see how the Dwr handles tag allotments on each unit for all 3 hunts. I just don't see how they will manage tag numbers without cutting more tags out of the allocation they have set. All 30 will still be loaded with hunters guaranteed. Thousand Lake is still a rugged unit to hunt lots of places for deer to hide away from the crowds. For this unit being limited entry for so long the deer population is not that great. Hopefully some of the locals down there get tags so they can shoot some of the bucks they have been feeding for years.
 
Awholelotta-- hahaha I am a pretty easy going guy, so I am ok with a disagreement. I agree with you that this will produce more deer, because everyone will lobby for their own unit and cut tags. We'll grow more bucks so then we will have more deer. Of course, that alone won't grow more doe or fawns. There will be no butt kicking as long as people stop talking about bucks.

Fawns, fawns, FAWNS, FFAAWWNNSS! Start talking fawns and all you will hear is crickets from the hunting crowds------

Oh and there will be too many tags on the 1000 Lakes. We asked the RACs and Board to limit the number of DHs and LLs. They rejected the idea- yeah the same guys who brought us the micro-buck-management would not micro-buck-manage.....
 
And what was the proposal to limit the lifetimes?
As i understand it lifetimes have first choice(gauranteed tag)
dhs i dont think have the clout that lifetimers do.!!
fill us in if i'm wrong- and i could be so pass on the info!!
 
Packout - I agree with you 100%. I think it all started out with everyone focusing on the buck to doe ratios but now has evolved into getting more deer period. A lot of us believed that early on, our deer herd was doing OK so where are the bucks? Now we all know that we really don't have the numbers that we were being told all those years and our deer herd (and I emphasize HERD) is doing extremely poor. Numbers are really low in certain places and rapidly declining in others. I think we are all tired of hearing the buck to doe rant. We just want to grow more deer. I also believe that most agree that if we grow more deer we will grow more bucks too. We just have to convince certain people that's what needs to happen. You're a good man Packout!

DoctorD - Lifetime license holders do have the "gauranteed license" clause in there but I would think it will change as to which unit you are gauranteed to hunt if all LL holders apply for the same unit (highly unlikely) and make it way oversubscribed. Manage on a unit by unit basis or this whole 30 unit thing with lost hunting opportunities will not be worth the paper it was written on. I supported this micromanage unit system but solely on the premise that this alone will NOT cure our problems. There are so many other fassets that need to be addressed immediately and if not it made no sense to change at all. But, this is our beloved WB and DWR at work so we will see where it goes.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 08:49PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 08:21?PM (MST)

This is crap that the DH and Lifetimers get first pick. I wanted to put in for the 1000 lakes unit. But I think the tags will be gone before the draw people get a shot at the tags. That just isn't right in my opinion.

Last year when you signed up for DH they said you would have to deal with the new changes. Well the new changes didn't hurt anyone.

Long ago they said that the Lifetimers would not be guaranty a tag when we went to regions. That is the reason my dad and I didn't buy the Lifetime License.

Remember only the rich, elite and famous knew they would be discontinued. They rushed out to buy them. Know they are just keeping them happy and benefited up with their purchase

I have lost most of my go for hunting in Utah. I will continue to enjoy my time out of state like Colorado and Wyoming.

Just my thoughts on the situation.
 
Lifetime and Dedicated get there first and only choice. 100% all the way. That means if 200 dedicated choose Thousand Lake and 500 lifetime choose Thousand Lake then there are 700 hunters on that unit even though last year it couldn't support 35. That unit will not recover for many, many years. I asked the Fish and Game and they said that is the case. They told me at least for the first year it is 100%. That unit is as good as dead.
 
The dedicated hunters on their last year or third year get to pick which unit to hunt. New dedicated hunters will have to draw for their unit. Myself, I am on my 3rd year, and signed up for the region of my choice, It makes common sense to honor the unit of my choice for my 3rd year.
 
I'm in the DH program i have done it for 12 years, and plan on doing it for as long as i can, granted there is a bulshiz that goes with the program but i get my deer tag, and thats a far trade for me, (i just wanna hunt) and my dad is a LLH, he said they sent him a letter saying that he is garunteed A "deer tag" that does not mean its gonna be a buck tag for the unit if his choice.

"JUST HUNT"
 
I can promise you one thing, if they stay with the 30 units (which I hope they do) I will personally lobby for that kind of crap to stop. DH and LLH guys will be gauranteed "A tag" but if a unit has way too many tags on it then you may have to go with your second choice. I'm a LLH and it will mean nothing to me if there are no deer in the unit I would like to hunt. It's crap to want to hunt a unit to extinction just because you feel you have the "right" to hunt it. There are a lot of things that need to be revamped. Those of us that bought a LL for $500 have gotten our moneys worth out of it don't you think? Times change and if we don't change you can fool yourself all you want into thinking your are "hunting" when in reality all it will be is hike with a heavy weapon and a pack on your back.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 10:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-12 AT 10:42?PM (MST)

Sounds like the dhs got fooled by the (buck to doe)numbers the board put out they are not close to accurate- the buck or the doe numbers-not even close!!!good luck on thousand lakes you will need it.the dhs program they can they can eliminate and
(almost did)lls they will have to wait for them to die off.!!
I am not RICH,ELITE,or FAMOUS.
They(dwr)need to do something drastic -and it might be too late.


justhunt-so are you saying they will tell your dad what unit he can hunt and no CHOICE.!!!
Thats not gonna happen.
 
Thanks for finally acknowledging that I'm RICH, ELITE and FAMOUS! I have a lifetime license and because of this it makes it so? LMAO

One thing I TOTALLY agree with, a previous poster said it well, FAWN, FAWNS, FAWNS! It's not as sexy to talk about but it's the key to our future.

Zeke
 
No, the way i understood it, is that a LLH is only garunteed a deer tag, that doesnt mean its gonna be a buck tag for the unit of his choice, so if that unit is struggling and numbers were low, its possible he would not get the unit of his choice, and he may not even get a buck tag, they could offer him a antlerless tag for a unit up north, this is just how i understood it anyway,

"JUST HUNT"
 
Years ago, before draws and when they first started the Lifetime Licenses I called the DWR and ask if the State of Utah had to go to a draw and I purchased a LL, would that give me a choice of where I could hunt. They told me it would NOT give me guaranteed choice, and would only guarantee me a license somewhere in the state.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 09:58AM (MST)[p]Do we really have a firm number of issued lifetime license holders who receive deer tags annually?
I suspect we're only talking about less than 5% of the issued tags actually go to the LLH.
It's worth talking about but it won't even come close to the biggest factor when it comes to deer harvest and management of our herds.
I do hope that the DWR will "limit" the unit tags based on sound management rather than simply issue too many tags just because someone wants one.
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 10:33AM (MST)[p]Heh, rich, elite & famous - ya, that was me at 26 when I bought my lifetime license. I saved my OT $ for a year to purchase the license because I knew I'd surely hunt for more than 14 years - which is what it would take to pay for itself as the price of a combo license.

The DWR has always committed the LLH holders their choice of regular units. The letter I got for the new change simply states that LLH holders will pick their unit from the 30 available. They don't address the situation of demand exceeding supply.

It is speculation how the DWR will handle the situation of more LLH & DH applicants than permits. They haven't said what they will do.

Based on the DH #'s I'd guess that 1000 Lakes will not have the problem this year. Yes, it's going to get hammered & following years the demand will go way down.

It will all even out - no way one of the 30 general units will get good enough to attract enough LLH & DH applicants to be oversubscribed by them alone. Long before that situation happened, the DWR would increase tags - which will quickly make the unit less desirable.

As for "gotten our money's worth" from our lifetime licenses - I've taken 5 bucks in the last 22 years - I'd say the DWR, the rest of the hunters & the deer have gotten as much out of the deal as I have.

As far as being fair - maybe those who don't think it's fair for LLH holders to get the benefits they paid a premium for should organize & camp out downtown in Pioneer Park in protest of life not being fair...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 10:28AM (MST)[p]My recollection is that there were about 4000 lifetime licenses sold. Sales stopped in '94 - I'd imagine plenty of those 4000 have stopped using their tags, but that's just my guess.
 
Question by an interested outsider. Hasn't the DWR issued anything in writing by now as to how they are going to work all these tags and total numbers that will be issued for each of the units? If they haven't, it would seem to me that all they have done is draw a bunch of extra lines on the map of Utah to put numbers 1 trough 30 in them with no plan as to how hunter numbers will be controlled to benefit the areas any more than has been done when there were just a few large units. Am I missing something here?
 
>As far as being fair -
>maybe those who don't think
>it's fair for LLH holders
>to get the benefits they
>paid a premium for should
>organize & camp out downtown
>in Pioneer Park in protest
>of life not being fair...
>


I agree 100%. Those who talk the loudest about "fair" haven't lived enough life to know things don't work that way.

I love my LL a bunch right now!
Zeke
 
MDQ
I thought about 5000 LL's were sold but through attrition its down to about 4000 now, I might be wrong though.
I read on the Utah forum that after the last of the DH's, that have up to 2 years left on their enrollment are gone, only 15% of the tags in each unit will be reserved for DH's and LLH's, with LLH's getting priority.
Damn glad my oldest son and I have LL's, my only regret is that I didn't buy one for my youngest son who was 3 at the time.
Anyone pissed off about us LLH's are just envious and It's just too damn bad.
 
The last time I talk with a Dwr guy. I think he said there where about 3300 active lifetimers . I think it was just a estimate on his part,but I think it close.

Thanks DoctorD , never thought i would become one of the famous ,elite, rich lucky ones ;-)
 
I highly doubt all 167 DH's will get those tags. LLH's get first pick for the Thousand Lakes which may or may not take up the entire quota for that unit. If there are any left at all, DH's will only get 15% of those. In order for all DH's to get a tag there would have to be over 1100 tags left over after the LLH's. Not gonna happen.
 
Well unfortunately they are all guaranteed.
FAQs on the DWR website.
I participate in the Dedicated Hunter Program. How will this change affect me?
If this is your second or third year in the program, you will have the opportunity to select the unit you want to hunt, and your unit choice is guaranteed. In early December 2011, we will send you a letter that explains when and how you can choose a unit. If you are thinking about becoming a Dedicated Hunter in 2012, you will have the opportunity to apply for the program during the 2012 Big Game Application Period.

Should have left Thousand Lakes a LE unit until all the DHs in year 2 and 3 periods were out of the program. Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.
 
there was not one dedicated hunter that hunted thousand lakes last year. how can they say they deserve or should be garanteed one this year? not one of them signed up putting this unit as the one they wanted to hunt... limit it to 15 % seems like an easy thing to do this year...
 
Most dedicated hunters pass on small bucks to get a decent buck. They put in the time for service hours, scouting, and actually hunt! Thousand lake was not a coveted area for Limited Entry. The area probably has struggled for deer, I know because the Fishlake has struggled as well and borders the Thousand Lake. There are other general units that are better than Thousand Lake
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 08:38PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 08:34?PM (MST)

Bigjohnt
It wasn't me that made the rich,elite,or famous statement.
But i'm glad i am in the club too.!!!
As i remember they (dwr) advertised that they were going to stop the lifetimes i think it was 2 weeks notice at the time
before they stoped selling them.But i have a pretty low number on mine.!! It's kinda funny to read the comments on this.
I wonder if the dwr where to offer them again(they wont)but what if what would they charge?? and if the complainers would buy one with the deer
numbers we have now???? We may have more pheasants than deer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-12 AT 10:43PM (MST)[p]My point is about that the rich and famous people with connection bought the LL. That is why they won't screw the Lifetimers because some of the people have connections. Some great people bought them, but other people that bought them have connections. That is my point
 
I love my Lifetime License....I bought mine the day before they stopped selling them....I was broke then and am still broke today and I scraped up the $500 at the time and have never regretted it.....those who wine that we get preference and special treatment....I'm sorry you feel that way...NOT
 
>My point is about that the
>rich and famous people with
>connection bought the LL.
>That is why they won't
>screw the Lifetimers because some
>of the people have connections.
> Some great people
>bought them, but other people
>that bought them have connections.
> That is my point
>

I don't blame you for your feelings. However, if you live long enough you'll realize that there are people with "connections" in every area of your life. It's no accident that some folks have connections and some folks don't. It's a skill some never learn.

Develope some social skills, meet and greet people with influence! It's a skill you learn.

Your comment is like saying everyone with money is bad and everyone with influence is corrupt.

Actually you'll also find bad and corrupt people in every socioecomomic group You'll also find great people in every group also. Look for the best, avoid the worst.

Keep your chin up,
Zeke

PS: I won't be even near thousand lakes this year!
 
It has nothing to do with connections. It is a contract that says we get hunting and fishing privileges for our lifetime. The contract at that time cost 500.00 dollars. Anyone could buy them. Some people thought that it was crazy to pay 500 bucks for it at the time. Hidesite is 20 20.
 
life time tags should be done away with...many young hunters never had a chance for them,.guss who wanted the tag cuts. knowing it would not touch them,.,.,.and the mess is going to get biger and biger,,,,
 
i am a life time tag holder. for the last 5 yrs i have collected my tag. but i have burned it. i hunted 1 day for deer last yr and passed a 145 4x4. the other 4 yrs i didnt even go out. what im getting at is. some of us life timers are doing this to assist in building our deer herd back up. you have a good point on this over alowing per unit. but i wish moore of the hard core deer hunters would fallow suit. putt in draw your tags and dont go hunt. we have the power to make things better threw our sacrifices.. i want my son to have the same good hunting i have enjoyed in utah. SO ASK YOUR SELVES A QUESTION. WHAT AM I DOING TO ASSIST? OR AM I JUST A BITCHER WITH NO CAULSE?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-12 AT 01:20PM (MST)[p]Lifetime license holder will not declare their choice until the regular application period.
Here is the link to the Dedicated hunters that are all ready enrolled.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/pdf/dh_unit_selection.pdf

I am a lifetime license holder as well as enrolled in dedicated hunter for 2012. I know most Lifetime license holder I know are enrolled in dedicated hunter. We still just get the two tags in three years, so it is not as bad as you guys think. We are really not even using out lifetime tags.
These comment about only the priveledged and connected know about lifetime tags being discountinued is bogus. Anyone paying attention know about it. It was advertised, certainly not hidden. The state needed money they wanted to sell as many as they could. My dad took out a loan to help buy ours. We certainly didn't fall in the wealthy class. It all depends on where you priorities are.
 
I believe that I purchased the last Lifetime License ever sold in Utah. Good to be the windshield and not the bug for a change.

Pruney
 
I under stand some of you LLH did alot to pony up the money to buy them. I respect that. I wish I to had the chance to buy one. I was 3 years old at the time and my dad didn't hunt or have much money back then. That being said...

Every LLH I know is well off and has money or there Dad's where well off and bought them one. Most of these guys are in there 50's or so and all are rifle hunters. Most of these guys are also putting in for the thousand lakes untit.

How is it fare that some guy with a LLH gets to choose his untit and hunt ever year, while young kids sit home because they didn't draw?

I think the DWR should honor your LL. But no way in H### should you get to choose your unit year in year out. You can have a deer tag in the state of utah period. Most of you LLH make good points to help our deer herds "oh lets cut tags bla bla" you do this because in the back of your mind you know I have a LL. And you will get a tag! You know it wont affect you!!! GREEDY, GREEDY people!

Most of you LLH also got to hunt in the glory days of mule deer. Or atlest better than it is today. So now that your a little older and maybe in not such good shape you want to cut our tags so you can shoot a buck out of the truck!!!

I'm not saying all LLH are this way but the ones I know are.
So if you don't act like this don't take offence to my post.
We all need to sacrifice and help our deer herds, LLH included!
 
>I under stand some of you
>LLH did alot to pony
>up the money to buy
>them. I respect that. I
>wish I to had the
>chance to buy one.
>I was 3 years old
>at the time and my
>dad didn't hunt or have
>much money back then.
>That being said...
>
>Every LLH I know is well
>off and has money or
>there Dad's where well off
>and bought them one. Most
>of these guys are in
>there 50's or so and
>all are rifle hunters. Most
>of these guys are also
>putting in for the thousand
>lakes untit.
>
> How is it fare
>that some guy with a
>LLH gets to choose his
>untit and hunt ever year,
>while young kids sit home
>because they didn't draw?
>
>I think the DWR should honor
>your LL. But no
>way in H### should you
>get to choose your unit
>year in year out. You
>can have a deer tag
>in the state of utah
>period. Most of you
>LLH make good points to
>help our deer herds "oh
>lets cut tags bla bla"
>you do this because in
>the back of your mind
>you know I have a
>LL. And you will
>get a tag! You know
>it wont affect you!!!
>GREEDY, GREEDY people!
>
>Most of you LLH also got
>to hunt in the glory
>days of mule deer. Or
>atlest better than it is
>today. So now that
>your a little older and
>maybe in not such good
>shape you want to cut
>our tags so you can
>shoot a buck out of
>the truck!!!
>
>I'm not saying all LLH are
>this way but the ones
>I know are.
>So if you don't act like
>this don't take offence to
>my post.
>We all need to sacrifice and
>help our deer herds, LLH
>included!


Cry me a river. Your old man should have bought you a LIFETIMER, just sayin!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
It's that attitude thats killing our deer herds. Cut tags, cut tags "oh yea because I will always have one". Selfish!!!
My Dad was 19 at the time. What about my little brother who wasn't even born. Or my 7 week old son? Do they deserve to never get a tag or hunt unknown units because all the LLH get them? Really?


I went back and looked at many of the post some of you LLH posted awhile ago on many topics. It is obvious many of you are selsish and want tag cuts. It benifits you! "Oh lets cut tags, lets raise buck to doe ratios, bla bla bla". All selfish greedy mined people acting like they want to help. All you want to do is benifit your selfs.

Cry me a river??? What a selfish statement
 
When lifetime licences sales stopped i was a senior in hs and could not afford one,besides i probably would not if i had the money And the reason being is still the same today i dont believe it did a danm bit of good for the state or the individuals. That being said lifetime licence holders are still entitled to their contract right wrong or indifferent. All this cry me a river bull makes me laugh get over it move on and lets make the best of it, Besides the ones bitchin the loudest are the guys that dont have a lifetime arent a dedicated hunter and just want to kill a monster every year and guess what it aint going to happen!! especially if u spend all your time logged in in mm la la land
There out there believe me there out there it blows my mind all the monsters ive been watchin this winter and it blows my mind that they have gotten so good at duckin man i wonder why

[email protected]
[email protected]


'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-01-12 AT 04:10PM (MST)[p]"All you guys are a-holes. You're all greedy, old, stupid, rich, bastages...... unless you're not, then don't take offense!" LMAO

Grow up!
This is a case of someone else with a toy and you can't handle it!

I won't be hunting YOUR special little unit so don't worry. I must not be one of those guys you spoke of in your rant.

Remember, we're only talking about 3-4% of the total tags issued AT MOST! Oh, and YOU'RE talking about 1 unit of which I have zero interest.

Hunting, by nature, is a personal activity. Some would call us all selfish, greedy turds. Why do we need to resort to this practice among out own ranks?

Zeke

One more thought: Any and all you guys who are whining about the Lifetime license holders should think about this. IF YOU HAD A TON OF MONEY AND OWNED A RANCH, WOULD YOU LET EVERYONE HUNT IT? OR WOULD YOU KEEP IT TO YOURSELF FOR YOU OWN HUNTING? It's the same thing, using a bit of good luck and planning and YOU benefit. That's how life works!
And we're the old guys who should roll over and let you hunt instead of us? Hmmm, I don't think so!
 
I was just describling the LLH I know, about 15 guys. All of these guys are my friends but they all want to cut tags. I think alot of you are missing the point I was trying to make. We all should make sacrafices even you LLH. 4-5% is alot of tags. For the record I hunt up north. I was just saying the LLH I know are changing units to the thousand lakes unit.

I bow hunt ever year and work amy ass off doing it. Killed some nice bucks too. The past two years have been wonerful hunting for me. I have seen ten or so bucks 170+ plus the past two years. I was happy with my Utah general hunt. If it was up to me there would be no rifle hunts. But thats me being selfish and thats not right. You guys wanting tag cuts knowing you will always get a tag is being selfish.
 
I am a LLH. I am all for tag tag cuts. You can call me selfish, but I rarely hunt with my tag and punch it less than that. Most LLH holders I know shoot mature bucks if they shoot one at all. There are just too many other states with better opportunity than Utah general season. As far as 1000 lakes goes, I think all your mature bucks will get killed, just like most other general season areas. Most of the yearlings will get passed up. I dont see DH or LLH shooting yearlings. Most of the hurt I see on the herds is the opportunists that gotta have a tag every year and gotta kill a buck, even if it is a spike.
 
twobit, i bet you were for tag cuts,your every thing that is wrong with hunting to day .please do us a favor and hut those other states,,,kill just big ones, so you can tell every body what a great hunter you are,,,,,
 
I dont have any problem with any lifetime llh...I wish I had bought one. I was barely making ends meet at the time and could not justify 500.00. If i could have afforded it I would have bought it for my 8 year old son. I would never whine about or call any LLH names either. I could argue that my financial contributions to the DWR will or has already exceeded any LLH concerning Deer tags, hunting licenses, and app. fees..but I wont. I could whine about sitting last year out in Utah..I didnt draw an archery tag..but again I wont. I donated the cost of a northern leftover tag and didnt even go. I would hope however that those of you who are guaranteed a tag to hunt deer in utah for the rest of your lives will consider that as a priveledge and not simply your right to hunt. Be happy for what you have, and dont take personal the shortsighted and immature remarks of those that are jealous.
 
+1 Dikndirt

I just it's more the attitude of some of the LLH I know that bothers me. Sure I wish I had one! I hate it when some younger people I know want to go hunting and can't because they didn't draw and then some LLH says "I didn't even go out hunting because our deer herds suck."
 
I'm an LLH. I bought one working a $7 an hour job living in a basement appartment back then. I sacrificed a lot back then because I knew it would be worth it in the end. I guess you could say that I am one for tag cuts because I supported the whole 30 unit/micromanage hunting that resulted in tag cuts. I'm not for cutting opportunity if the herds can support the hunter numbers. The last time I shot a mule deer was 3 years ago in Wyoming. It was the same year I shot a whitetail in Kansas. The last time I shot a mule deer in Utah? I can't remember when. And, I don't fish. So tell me how selfish I am. Please enlighten me! My dad paid $3500 for his first Ford truck. I paid $24,000 for mine. Damn! That's not fair! Different times, different situation. Get over it. Most LL holders are responsible hunters and NOT someone that thinks they should be entitled to hunt deer every year.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
I agree with alot of things you said Awholelottbull. But, A new ford truck costs over $50,000 today. Diffrent times diffrent prices I get that. But atleast I have the opportunity to buy a new ford truck. If A LL was $5,000 I would pony up the money and buy one.

Alot of people can't afford to hunt Wyoming and Kansas. It's easy for you to say cut tags when you know you can go hunt other states. I killed a nice buck in Colorado last year. I should draw Wyoming this year. But most Utah hunters can't afford to hunt other states. What about young kids who can't draw a Utah tag or afford an out of state tag?
 
Feather, What about the kids who can't draw a tag?

Then they do exactly what my 4 daughters have done their whole lives. They hunt every other year for deer and fill in the off years with elk or birds etc.

Quit acting like you're the only affected!

Yes, I was lucky and bought one for me and my son. I wish I'd bought them for the girls but they were so little and the darn money thing was really tight for us. Like everyone else, we were about broke and it made us "broker". I guess it's some kinda badge-o-courage to be broke since if you could afford one you must be evil.

I can't feel sorry for you since I don't feel sorry for my own girls.... and they're real hunters, make no mistake.

Zeke
 
I agree with AWLB . Alot of us that have LLh are oldder ,some not. The last time I shot a deer in Utah was in 2004. Do I hunt ? Yes every year. I enjoy hunting with my kids, boys , girls and my family and friends. I dont feel I need to shoot a deer every year just because I have a tag.
My kids have gotten tags some years and not other years. Then you do other thing like help the other lucky ones that got the tags or put in for antlerless tags ect.
I almost bought a lifetime for my two boys who where in diapers at the time. Hidesite.....I guess i should have.
I know a few that bought LLH tags for unborn children and infants . So there are some LLH in the twentys out there.
I would like to know the real numbers of how many of us there are still out there. A very small percentage of the hunters in the state.
As far as thousand lakes goes it is not a very good producer of big bucks anyway. The few guys that i know of have never taken much off that unit anyway. Anyone have any pictures of any good bucks off the thousand lakes?
 
This is the viewpoint from an outsider living in Michigan reading this thread. It looks to me like this is just another example of the Utah DWR screwing something up! It looks like they are real good at it from all the ranting and raving on all kinds of stuff involving the DWR that I read on this site. From my perspective, I would have thought that buying a lifetime license would be just for the money savings. That is normally the way I have seen every other state go about that type of program. Until reading this thread I didn't know that the Utah LL gave a person preference over others. I guess if I had one and had purchased it I would expect the DWR to honor what they promised. In this case it looks like it is coming back to haunt them and will only compound the management issues you guys are constantly complaining about. Please don't jump all over me for my thoughts and also know that I have no intentions of ever hunting in Utah, so I'm one less person you have to worry about taking any of your tags away!
 
Well Topgun,
As you know, you and I agree on almost everything so I'll let you in on a little secret.

The UT F&G has done a great job in almost every area of wildlife management. While the mule deer numbers are down the rest of our wildlife is doing better that ever. I can only back that up with 45 years of big game involvement. The mule deer are down throughout all the west so it's far from a uniquely Ut problem.

While the UT F&G are not perfect, we really have very little to complain about (except deer). I think it's simply a function of UT predominance on this site and a few vocal people AND the fact that some have little long-term experience.
Zeke
 
Thanks for the reply Zeke. As I mentioned, I'm obviously an outsider and can only go by what I read on these forums. I respect your opinions and would hope that what you mentioned is truly the case. Maybe other than this and the Expo tags the DWR is a credible operation. I hope so and value your thoughts on the matter. I sure wouldn't argue the fact that mulies are in a bad way over much of their range and not just in Utah!
 
There's nothing wrong with being an "outsider" and still having an opinion. We're all connected anyway. I've flown over the US many times and have yet to see a State's boundry line.
Zeke
 
You misunderstood my post featherflipper. That was the cost of my dads first truck vs my first truck. I am very well aware of the cost of a new truck today. I bought my first new truck for $24,000. And I sure wouldn't buy a LL today for $5000. If you would, I've got some ocean front property in Scipio I will sell ya. Back when I bought my license in 1989, it was a stretch but worth it. I would buy one of many other guided hunts or non guided hunts for $5000 long before I would give the DWR that much money for a very risky investment. I do understand your frustration though. I think the DWR was trying desparately to raise a lot of money quick when they did that. Not sure I could figure out any other reason. I worked.


It's always an adventure!!!
 
Lifetime licenses were available for years before they decided to stop selling them.!!!I can remember my grampa telling me that when i get a little older i should save some $$$ and buy a
lifetime license.because hunting was turning into a richmans sport.So i got my first job and was making 3.30 an hour and kept buying linceses year after year and then found out they were gonna stop selling them and bought mine with a cc card.
It was a good investment and i paid a little more for mine by using a cc card. But i'm glad i did.



I can also remember 1,000 lakes aways listed in the proclamation with an asterik by it saying NOT A TROPHY UNIT.
and it still isn't. And i do have a lot of connections in the hunting industry and i cant think of 1 that hunts it or even gives it a second thought. WE used to hunt it 30 years ago.

Like Bigjohnt said let's see some pictures!!!!
Nice kitty Bigjohn.
 
if the DWR ever sold LL agian i would buy one, im a young guy with alot of hunting years ahead of me, but i dont see them doing that anytime soon, so i'll just stick with DH program, i hear alot of compliants about the DH program, bottom line is the DH program is out there for everyone to use, just depends on how bad you wanna deer tag i guess,
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom