Power point on how deer are counted in Utah

  • Thread starter TheElitehornhunter
  • Start date
So where is old rperkins and his gang? Maybe they don't understand the power point or they realize the DWR actually knows a thing ot two.
 
Were still here watching and waiting, keep the good work up and they ( DWR ) might open it up for the last 50 bucks that are left.
 
I want to see their 2011 deer count, I want them to show me 10,900 deer on the Beaver Unit and the Mt Dutton Unit is real sad for deer, DWR should be proud of them self, they just about got the deer killed off, hunters know how many deer our out in the Units they hunt and our deer numbers are way down, sorry I'm for the Deer.
 
I hunted the beaver last year and I saw a lot of deer so I don't know where your looking, but everyone has their own experiences.
 
Sorry we ran cattle on the Beaver & Dutton and the deer herd is way down, so I want people to show me the deer, over 50 years I have hunted it, I am one of the olds one left, I would not want to run my cattle the way the DWR run their deer.
 
let me ask you this....You talk about managing your cattle so here is my question. What is your bull/cow catio in your cattle herd. I'm sure you understand that there is no need to keep more than enough bulls around to service all your cows because you would be wasting money feeding extra bulls and they take of space on your property.

We need more does that give birth to fawns. We have enough bucks to service the does.
 
I keep extra Bull around when I put them BLM ground , so that every cow gets bred, and that means more calves, more calves more money. More money means I will be a rancher next year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-12 AT 09:21PM (MST)[p]Ok maybe I can explain it down on your level since your not getting it. I seriously doubt you have a bull to cow ratio of 20-25 bulls to 100 cows unless your a crappy rancher who soon would be going out of business.
 
I don't think you get it, That why I have good herd of cattle and you and the DWR have a poor herd of deer, sorry thats the way it is.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-02-12 AT 09:37PM (MST)[p]Hahaha once again you avoid the facts. Yes the deer herds are struggling but i don't buy into your doom and gloom being spewed on this site because I find mature bucks every year maybe old rperkins can't hike like he did when he was younger so you can't find the mature bucks which hang up high instead of next to the roads.
 
Maybe my horses can, and they cover more ground than a foot man can, sorry you lose again.



OLD AND WISE & BEEN THEIR DONE THAT
 
Do I need to post some more pictures of bucks I have kill recently on the beaver because pictures speak volumes over your lame ass hunting experiences
 
Here is just one of many, but of course you can't find any bucks. Your one the hunters that is added to the unsuccessful percentage while I'm in the successful category.

10240912561-3.jpg
 
Elite,
Again calling people out and hiding your face. Man up, please! Own your smart asss comments.

I would place a wager that most of the voice that is calling for change are pretty successful hunters. They are the ones out seeing the doom and gloon and have seen it evolve right before their eyes.

I have no problem shooting bucks and yes I see some nice bucks every year. The point is the overall deer are gone!!!

BTW nice buck, but it would still look nice without cramming it into the lens to look bigger. But I'm sure that is just your style.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12 AT 06:35AM (MST)[p]Elite if you look at the DWR's count on the winter range, use the lasal, they counted or classified something around 400-500 deer on the winter range during the rut. But somehow it is 6000 deer on the unit. The reality is what they are seeing is most likely 80% of the deer.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12 AT 07:46AM (MST)[p]HAHAHAHA MAN UP PLEASE??? I haven't seen you man up yet. You haven't said your name or you haven't posted any pictures of yourself so don't be a hypocrite. I'm definately not trying to jam the antlers in front of the lens, but when your 6 foot 6 then you tend to have longer arms then midgets like you. Take your balls out of your purse before you speak next time.

Muley most successful hunters know that high buck to doe ratios doesn't grow your deer herds.

BTW did your friend Lumpy2 put his balls in his purse and go home? I guess he thought he's going to look like a fool because of SFW's broken promises when they realize it's easier said then done to simply double the deer population in 3 to 5 short years.
 
"I'm definately not trying to jam the antlers in front of the lens, but when your 6 foot 6 then you tend to have longer arms then midgets like you. Take your balls out of your purse before you speak next time."

It's getting pretty deep in here and about time to put on the waders, LOL! What the He** does your height have to do with holding that rack out or in close to the body? Looks to me like it's stuck out that way to make it look bigger than it actually is compared to being in nearer your shoulders! It's a very nice buck, but IMHO the picture is exactly done to do what the other member stated and that's to make it look huge! No need to comment back as it's JMHO!
 
Horn hunter and Anis must be best of friends, they seem to know how to find the deer the rest of us can't. I can tell you I have walked miles of great mule deer country and continue to see a decline. During the rut counted 6 bucks to 125 deer. Many groups of Deer did not even have a buck in with them. We all know how smart Horn hunter is, but in an area that is ripe with habitat and known to hold thousands deer to no longer have deer tells me something is wrong. And, by the way hornhunter, I to could hold up one nice buck picture but what does that prove about our deer herd. Nothing, it is still low and still mis counted. You and Anis the only ones who think the deer herd is still at the numbers turned in.
 
elitehornhunter

Your comparsion of managing cattle and deer is poor at best. We have to manage for bucks beacuse that is what hunters tags are for. Maybe sombody needs to remind the DWR of how many buck tags they are selling a year.
 
What herd produces more fawns? Herd A with 2,000 deer with a buck to doe ratio of 15 bucks to 100 does OR herd B with 2,000 deer with 25 bucks per 100 does?????

The Henry mtns, San Juan, Bookcliffs deer herds do not have high fawn recruitment even with all the awesome bucks running around and very few tags. Maybe the bucks have turned GAY.


Ranchers don't keep more bulls than they need to get the job done because they want to keep more cows to give birth to more calves= MONEY

Some goes with out ELK. We have bulls right now dying of old age because we don't give out enough mature tags.
 
I might agree with you if the count was truly 15 bucks per 100 doe, but there are so many areas that are way below that number except where you hunt of course. Six bucks per 100 deer is not enough, many groups of doe with no buck during the rut. So I would say that more bucks per 100 doe would not hurt at this point. The counts are not right and we cannot stand back and continue to believe all these areas have enough bucks and deer. Simply not true, to many on here have seen the same thing I have and it is time for some changes. You should not have any problems because you know where all the deer are.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12 AT 03:52PM (MST)[p]Eite

your point that one bull will bread 100 cows might be true if our deer were in a 40 acre field. Its simply not true when our deer are all spread out all over the place. Now your point about cows would be also go down the toilet if you were selling the bulls horns for profit. Only having one bull would mean only having one to sell. It would also mean you would be feeding more cows and that would get expensive. Dude in life there is always a balance!

Since you claim to be a smart cattle man do you know what it would mean if your cows were bread later in the year?

Ill tell ya cause I doubt you will be able to figure it out. It means lighter calf's going to slaughter! It means loss of money! In mule deer it means fawns being born all spread out which in turn means more predation on easy fawns! It means fawns go into winter in lower body weight resulting in higher winter moralities! It also means loss of money!

Your point about having more does and low bucks falls on deaf ears because most guys that hunt don't want to hunt does or dink bucks! The only way your going to have better quality bucks is to not shoot them or make it harder for every Tom, ##### and Hairy to shoot them.

You want to bring the deer herd up in numbers? Find away to eliminate the predators! bring 1080 back! Also habitat wont fix our deer it only makes the deer that don't get shot grow larger horns.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12
>AT 06:35?AM (MST)
>
>Elite if you look at the
>DWR's count on the winter
>range, use the lasal,
>they counted or classified something
>around 400-500 deer on the
>winter range during the rut.
> But somehow it
>is 6000 deer on the
>unit. The reality is
>what they are seeing is
>most likely 80% of the
>deer.

+1 I dont know how you can go drive a winter range and see 400 to 500 deer and turn it into 10,000. I bet every cattle farmer wish they could magically do that when was time to sell their cattle.


avatar_2528.jpg
 
Another funny post!!! I understand if fawns are born late they are less fit come winter so answer me this smarty pants swbuck then why is our fawns on LE units struggling just as much as our GS units? Do you have any studies that show our fawns are born late? Mule deer bucks aren't stupid when it comes to find does in estrus. They just follow their nose and bucks don't need to be confined to forty acres to breed does.
 
It's always funny that you talk about dink bucks when every year hundreds of hunters kill mature bucks on public lands. More does means more fawns means more bucks means more opportunity
 
Actually, if the calves are born later, when the rancher sells the calves to the feeder operation, they go into a pen of like sized calves and are fed out to the same weight class all calves are slaughtered at. Then that pen of calves are taken all at once to the plant. And lighter feeder calves sell for a higher price per pound than slaughter steers, so it all pretty much evens out in the end....

A buck isnt just going to stand around with the 10 same does, he is going to breed them and then go find more..........
 
>Another funny post!!! I understand if
>fawns are born late they
>are less fit come winter
>so answer me this smarty
>pants swbuck then why is
>our fawns on LE units
>struggling just as much as
>our GS units?


They have just as many predators on Le units as the general units. The predators are keeping the fawn crop low. Bring 1080 back and you will understand what i'm talking about!


>Do you
>have any studies that show
>our fawns are born late?


When I personally see does getting bred clear into late December there are fawns being born later in the year then they need to be. So I dont need a pointy headed biologist with a degree to tell me what my 20 years of hard earned field experience tells me.


>Mule deer bucks aren't stupid
>when it comes to find
>does in estrus. They just
>follow their nose and bucks
>don't need to be confined
>to forty acres to breed
>does.

They also dont need do range hundreds of miles to find a doe to bread either. There is defiantly a balance!


avatar_2528.jpg
 
How do you know there are groups of does with no bucks during the rut? Are you following them around all night with a spotlighting spot? Hunters go out one more two times on their silly counts and they think they saw every buck and doe on the mountain. I have watched bucks breed does and then they head up and go lay down in the trees and most yahoos that come across the does doesn't even know that an old buck is there resting from all the romance he had the night before.

Last week I took a drive and saw 23 bucks and 100 does. Does this mean this area has a buck to doe ratio of 100 does to 23 bucks? Of course not. I know I didn't see all the deer and I didn't cover all the ground either.

I always laugh when hunters do counts during the deer hunt also when most bucks are in survival mode and many bucks only come out at night.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12 AT 05:15PM (MST)[p]>>Another funny post!!! I understand if
>>fawns are born late they
>>are less fit come winter
>>so answer me this smarty
>>pants swbuck then why is
>>our fawns on LE units
>>struggling just as much as
>>our GS units?
>
>
>They have just as many predators
>on Le units as the
>general units. The predators are
>keeping the fawn crop low.
>Bring 1080 back and you
>will understand what i'm talking
>about!

Good luck bringing 1080 back. My point that you missed is the fact that even with all the awesome bucks running around on LE units the fawn survival rates are still down. There has been a lot of predator control on the henry mtn unit and the unit is slowly increasing and the fawn population isn't very good.

>
>
>>Do you
>>have any studies that show
>>our fawns are born late?
>
>
>When I personally see does getting
>bred clear into late December
>there are fawns being born
>later in the year then
>they need to be. So
>I dont need a pointy
>headed biologist with a degree
>to tell me what my
>20 years of hard earned
>field experience tells me.

Maybe one thing that would help is NOT having hunts during the rut where hunters are harassing the deer. Prime example, you have a lot of idiots with their bows hunting the WF.

>They also dont need do range
>hundreds of miles to find
>a doe to bread either.
>There is defiantly a balance!

Are you talking about wheat or white bread?
 
Since you find it so funny hunters have a hard time finding game it must be hilarious for you to go out on the winter range every year and see a deer heard trending down the toilet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-03-12 AT 05:30PM (MST)[p]I guess we hunt different areas of the state. Yes the deer are struggling all over the west NOT just in Utah. BUT I'm not ready to throw in the towel and believe all this doom and gloom baloney and our deer herds are becoming extincted. Last year I saw more does with twin fawns then in recent years. I have seen them on the winter range with twin fawns so Im not sure where you heard deer swirling down a toilet.
 
>It's always funny that you talk
>about dink bucks when every
>year hundreds of hunters kill
>mature bucks on public lands.
>More does means more fawns
>means more bucks means more
>opportunity

Elite, You are right every year "hundreds" of mature bucks are killed in Utah. Only a few of those show up on this or any web site.

Only problem is that number used to be thousands. And that was just on opening day of rifle season. Before they were hunted from Aug. to Dec.
 
>Maybe one thing that would help
>is NOT having hunts during
>the rut where hunters are
>harassing the deer. Prime example,
>you have a lot of
>idiots with their bows hunting
>the WF.


Ding ding ding that would sure help allow more mature bucks to make it wouldn't it.

If you want big bucks you can't kill them all now can ya.

Our deer recruitment is tied to our does. That's the one fact you have correct. But you flat out miss the facts why our deer are not growing in numbers. Its predators! Bring back 1080 and my point will hit home. Find away to shoot trap or eliminate them and my point will hit home. Until then even the deer on the le units wont increase in numbers. They are proof we can't control the predators enough.
 
True predators are a big problem. You and I agree on this. The WF front has a lot of predators like coyotes and mountain lions and we still have a lot of deer with limited habitat. Some areas we have even had to kill a lot of deer because of the problems with them being close to town. The deer herd is increasing even with the abundance of predators.
 
What's laughable is you actually believe what your talking about.

So what your telling me is are deer are actually under hunted and we actually need to increase our tags for better hunting and heard growth?

Ba ha haaaaa!

avatar_2528.jpg
 
Elite,
There are plenty on my pics and name posted on this site. You crack me up with your tough guy talk. Pretty easy to be tough on the forum. I'm guessing that is probably not even you in the pic or your buck.

I sure hope you draw a tag this year, heaven help us if you don't and your giant balls shrivel up and you cry yourself to sleep cause the big bad SFW took your tag away.

As a side note I don't think lumpy has even bought a tag in UT for 7 years. I am pretty sure he is just helping the SFW to make sure guys like you don't get to hunt every year. I assure you because he is not posting here does not mean his balls are not actually still out doing work to ensure that very thing!

Well I'm done for a few days. Off to hunt Barbarys in NM. Hopefully I'll have some new pics to post. I'll be the one smiling in the pic. I'm only 6' 1 so I hope my ram looks huge!!!!
 
Haha I think your the only here that mentions your tough girl talk. I know I won't draw in Utah this year on mule deer but I should draw my RM goat tag and also bear. I hunt a lot of other states so they will in the gap when I can't hunt in Utah. Barbary sheep hunting but you might complain on this hunt also. Lumpy is just another PETA member trying to reduce hunter opportunity with stupid proposals. I wonder if he can make it snow or rain this year because he could be heading into another drought. Option WTF won't save our deer but it will create excuses why it's not working. SFW will just say they need more time because they promised to have 400,000 deer in Utah in 3 to 5 years.
 
Nope I never said that buck master maybe you need to read more closely.
 
Well Elite, OR is it Lonetree?

Could have swore it was Yote slayer.....

Sure talk the same talk,,Walk the same walk.

And a serious question, Do you not realize Utah's deer troubles?


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
Sure ya did you said we only need one buck per hundred does, more does equals more fawns equals more dink bucks that can be shot.

No the only way you will have more deer is with predator control. The only way you will have something worth shooting for the Tards that wont get away from the roads is with lower tags or less succsful weapons.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-12 AT 09:36AM (MST)[p]There might be more dink bucks but many dink buck become mature bucks or are you making a silly assumption that every year we are killing almost every single yearling buck. Mature bucks were dink bucks at one time. Buck master I'm sorry to hear about your damn luck.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-12 AT 09:49AM (MST)[p]If Utards are hunting close to the roads then more dink bucks are surviving away from the roads silly buck master don't you ever think?

Maybe if Utards hunted away from the roads they would see more mature bucks. I always laugh when I see several guys during the archery hunt all piled in the back of a truck road hunting. Then they come home and say there are no bucks or small bucks.
 
I'm betting SW could hike Elites butt right into the ground..

If-fact I'd bet SW has burned more boot leather off in the
last 3 years than dam near anyone looking at deer herds..

Elite, I spend 6 days a week this time of year watching deer
herds on several different units in Utah.........

Another serious question Elite, how much do you get out and look.


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
Oh really GE? You don't even know me so quit trying to think you do. I can hike just as far as buck master. I'm not going to believe he's someone special. You seem to be in love with him though. I spent most of the year in the mountains like you do. Your experiences in the mountains mean nothing to me. You probably spend more of your time drive in your truck instead of on your own two feet if I had to make a guess.
 
Buck master I do my own predator control and have put away 13 coyotes away this winter so far so I'm doing my part.
 
Elite,,,,Your a little late putting up that link to the powerpoint................

I'm the one that posted it up on the other webs sites over a year ago..


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
I didn't know we were having a race to post it first. It still has good info posted a year ago or now. I hope you didn't waste a lot of points on that pisscutter bull you shot there.
 
Elite im one of the guys that's in the 10% group. You know the 10% group that kills 90% of the bucks. So don't worry about my luck. If there is a buck left and I have a tag ill be eating venison.

That however doesn't make it right. I have to look at the overall health of the herd. This state is on a downward trend that only fools will deny.


avatar_2528.jpg
 
I believe data shows that our herds are remaining about the same and not threading down to extinction as you want people to believe.
 
E are you sure your not one of those G## hunters that wear pink instead of orange, the way you talk you sound like one.



signing off till monday
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-12 AT 02:20PM (MST)[p]That's the problem. The data is bull chit. Any time the division can go out and count 400 deer on a unit and then magically turn it into 10,000 you got a problem. Especially when you go to the winter range and every year you see less and less deer. Like I've said I could care less about the bucks. Ill still get mine. Its the lack of deer returning every year to the winter range that has me concerned.

Only a fool can't admit somethings wrong with the deer.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-12 AT 03:22PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-04-12 AT 03:17?PM (MST)

I believe the DWR over your shitty numbers. You also realize that the deer aren't using their winter range as much because of the lack of snow. I know the deer are struggling but not as bad as you believe they do.
 
We might as well get used to people like elitehornhunter, they only want one thing and that is a tag. They really are not very good hunters and do not understand the real problem or even care as long as they have a tag in their hand they will believe anyone who tells them there are plenty of deer.
 
Nope I don't need a tag every year I just know about deer management. Option2 and focusing on bucks won't help our deer herds.
 
Elite your one of those Biologist that wear little green shorts that needs to keep his job and see deer that not their and your one that will never bring our herd back. Your not a hunter, all you know how to do is BS. Your the only one that see a lot of deer, the deer herd is in BAD SHAPE.

Sorry, that you need a tag every year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]Well your reading skills aren't that great. I repeat I don't need a tag every year. I understand that deer numbers are down but focusing on buck harvest isn't going to solve anything. We need solutions not bandaids.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]The bandaid that allowed the deer numbers to explode was 1080. until you find away to control the predators we wont have a deer herd.

nobody in their right mind believes we are under hunting our deer right now!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 11:25AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 11:23?AM (MST)

Buck master road kills are just as bad as predators. If a deer doesn't get eaten by a predator then that doesn't mean it survives. It could still get hit by a car.
 
I think the #1 problem with Elite is he has never seen how many deer this state can actually produce. On top of this he's too arrigent to listen to anyone that tells him otherwise and has seen different.
Oh ya, just cause you found a 160 buck doesnt mean the the deer herd is thriving. Theres always gonna be a couple descent bucks make it no matter how low the deer #s get.
Your whole "cattle ranchers dont carry any more bulls than is needed for breeding" is a BS comparison. How many bulls do you think a rancher carrys that sells breeding bulls??? He wants as many bulls as he can get cause thats what makes him money and he does everything he can to produce the highest quality bulls possible. Yes he needs high quality cows to have high quality bulls but he wants as many bulls as possible cause thats what he sales.
WHAT DO HUNTERS HUNT BUCKS OR DOES??? Thers plenty of habitat to support more of both dipsh!t.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 12:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 12:04?PM (MST)

Your clueless hog hunter. We will never have the amount of deer that we had in the past because of a lot of factors that we have today that doesnt exist back then.

Yes we hunt bucks but when fawn survival is low then buck numbers are low. We don't hunt many does but they are disappearing because of getting road killed
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 03:43PM (MST)[p]Yes elite a deer that doesn't get eatn by a coyote, bear, or lion could still get get eatn by a vehicle.

It could also get eatn by a lame depredation tag issued by the division.

So you work on the things that you can control, right elite? You dont just issue more buck tags and think the problem is going to magically turn around because less bucks = more does = equals more fawns = more bucks theory you've been preaching.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
hornhunter says he believes the herd is struggling but not near as bad as other people. This tells me he does not get out and look like all the sportsmen who get on here and say we are almost out of deer which is the truth. Hornhunter counts them in his sleep or has a formula like dwr.
 
We know that their not going to bring 1080 back, they should, so they got to increase the does and bucks and put bigger boundy on coyote. Killing the coyote will also bring back the sage chicken and put more tags out on Mt Lions they have a big in pack on the deer. Cut tags, close Units and stop all doe hunts.
Raise the tags if they have too, make up the money, think of the deer first, thats the main thing.
 
Here's the problem,,,,THE DWRs HERD estimates...
Their estimates do show Utah's deer herds as , basically, stable for quite a few years in a row now.

Most sportsmen that get out a lot, , have hunted deer in Utah
a lot, Know there has been a significant decline in overall
deer herd size in recent years...So most of us know the truth..
There's definatly a hell of a lot less deer now than 5 years ago

Now Ehorn hunter believes those DWR estimates, That's what his problem is.

4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
>You believe the deer are becoming
>extinct?


Elite
I believe the deer across the west are decreasing faster then they can reproduce. I believe in some areas its happening faster then in other areas.

avatar_2528.jpg
 
Can't help but comment on this subject, even though, I know that most of the comments are juvenile (which explaines the trash language) I certainly can tell the REAL HUNTERS from the ones like Elitehornhunter, which us OLD GUYS don't need to pay any attention to, just scratch him off your list, as his picture shows, he is barely dry behind the ears, probably needs his nose wiped and his diaper needs changing, as it is certainly FULL, he is not ole enough to have much experience in the field of hunting. Yes he was one lucky kids that got a nice deer this last year, even if it is blown up or whatever it was a nice one, but they come far and few between. We, us OLD HUNTERS, don't need to lower ourselves to argue the point with him, we know that what we see and count is a fact, as one of you said, the deer herd has greatly declined in the last five years, but more so, what I used to see 40 years ago, to this day, makes me SICK, and it is because of poor MANAGEMNT, we always had coyotes, lions, etc. but always there was a quanity and quality deer....over sales of tags, over kills will do it everytime to anything....I'm a cattleman, I'm in the hills all summer long, when I lose a cow or calf, the way I count it, I'm one less animal, now if I was to lose 50 and 50 each year it wouldn't be long until I was out of cattle....not hard to understand.ITS A FACT THE DEER HERD IN UTAH IS WAY DOWN AND CONTINUING TO DECLINE EACH YEAR. I am appalled that DWR is continuing with a nine day hunt in 2012, this is what I mean about management...yes there are other factors to the decline of the deer, but the biggest factor is the amount of tags given..and NO-ONE CAN TELL ME DIFFERENT....if there was half the tags, only half the deer would be killed because of tags, (wouldn't that be one place to start?) NO NEED TO ARUGE WITH ME EHORNHUNTER, as I'm not going to argue with you, your not old enough to look back over the years. I have a Nephew that runs cattle on the Beaver Mt. he said he has seen a very big decline of deer in that area, and he'll be glad to take you (has an extra horse) this summer and you and him, I hope he'll ask me to come, can count the deer in that area...just put the date of the site and he'll be ready.
 
Well put comsense, most of the sportsmen on here have been in the hills the same as you and unless there is a secret place that none of us know of there is a drastic decline in the deer herd. Over issue of tags from year to year has finally caught up with the dwr and now they continue to say the deer herd is at objective. Hornhunter like you said is just a kid who wants to continue to have a tag, but that cannot happen if we are going to have any chance of bringing the herd back. Not sure the dwr is even willing to cut tags to help, they seem to think the herd is not that bad and then go on to blame it on habitat. Have you looked at the habitat on the beaver, looks ok to me except no deer to eat it.
 
>Here is just one of many,
>but of course you can't
>find any bucks. Your one
>the hunters that is added
>to the unsuccessful percentage while
>I'm in the successful category.
>
>
>
10240912561-3.jpg



Elite,
Your stuff gets old. I think that you have put this picture up 20 differnet times. Quit being a tool. You are not the only one that can kill deer on Public Land. The herds are really struggling. You killed a good deer congrats does not mean that the herds are not way down.

Guess what everyone the herds are not struggling because Elite killed a buck last year. Every one can relax and not be worried anymore. Elite says he kills big bucks every year. So that means that the herds are diong better than ever. Way to go Elite.
 

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