Score contest #6 ( HELP)

M

monarchtaxidermy

Guest
This may take a bit so please stay with me.
So I have a well respected scorer who scores all these bucks for the contest. For this contest he scored the buck with 4 mass measurements on the the 2 point side (1 which I lost because a torn paper) and he gave the other side only 2 mass measurements. I have tried to get a hold of him to verify what he wrote on my sheet but can't get a hold of him. So I called Roger the official score who tours with eastmans and he told me the 2 point side should get 3 mass measurements and the spike side should get 2 mass measurements. Not sure about what he told me I called some local guys and every single person gave me a different answer. One guy said the spike side would get the measurement under the eye-guard and 3 in the same spot half way up the spike. HE said you would get 4 on the 2 point side that all made sense. An other guy said you would divide the spike into quarters and get 3 mass measurements above the eye guard at 3 different divisions and 4 on the 2 point side. One official measurer flat out said he had no clue.

So I am asking for help. I have talked to 5 official scorers and they would all score it differently? I have always just assumed the guy we used was right and now I am in a situation where I don't know if he was wrong or made a mistake. I need help!!! Does any Monster Muleys Members out there know 100% how this buck should be scored. Please call, or post an answer so we can crown contest six a winner. I do not know with all the different ways I have been told what quite to do. Until I get this figured out please be Patient on contest 6 results.
Curtis Wilson 801-518-2033
http://monarchtaxidermy.com/
 
I'm glad i got beer this is going to get good!

25 guys saying they know 100%

I will make it easy i win.




hornkiller.jpg
 
thats the problem we are all going to have, I scored it based on the way your original scorer did it. But I have asked around and got same replies as you, which is different answers.
 
The way i understand it and this coming from b&c website but no matter the horn configuration you get 4 measurments. spike side one before the g1 and 3 in same spot taking the overal length from g1 up to the tip of antler and going to midway point. And on the 2 point side take the length between burr and g2 and take 2 measurments there from the g2 split measure to tip of antler go to half way point an take a measurment and same for h4 go from g2 split to tip of main beam and take measurment at half way point hope you can understand that

www.hightopoutfitters.com
 
I wish i was drinking with ya. Maybe someone might have a good connection to help. If we don't get a for sure answer we may just have to void contest six and it will be a who knows. I have faith we will get it right though.
http://monarchtaxidermy.com/
 
This is how I understood it to be. You can't add in mass if it is not there. I have no referrence yet. Sorry. Hope this helps.

6553massmeasurement.jpg
 
Can't wait to find out. I don't quite understand how to take the mass measurement on the left side. I also thought there was only 2 measurements, but just read again and Im just not sure. Monarch, have you thought of contacting boone and crockett tommorrow and find out what they say? The headquarters # is 406-542-1888. I think that's what I would do at this point. How could that not make it the most official? Obviously, there is some confusion and different opinions on how to interpret this. We need to know the proper way to score this for sure.
 
According to boone and crockett, you definately have 4 mass measurements on the right side. You take 2 mass measurements between the burr and the g2 point. Then you take the other 2 shown in the pic on the g3 and g4 for a total of 4 measurments. The left side is the side I am having a hard time with.
 
You get 4 mass measurements per side no matter what.

For the normal 2 point side you get the smallest place between the base and the G2 twice. Then you get halfway up the G2 and halfway from the base of the G2 to the tip of the main beam. "Roger" got that wrong so we can't really trust his opinion on the spike w/browtine either.

The other side is more tricky.

From the B&C website FAQ question:
Do elk and deer always get four circumference measurements? What about eight-pointers? What about twelve-pointers?
Yes, elk and deer trophies ALWAYS get four circumferences. In the case of an eight-point whitetail, the G-4 is missing. Instead of looking for the smallest location between the G-3 and the G-4, the measurement is taken at the halfway point between the G-3 and the tip of the main beam. Similarly, on a mule deer with no G-3, the H-3 circumference measurement would be taken at a point halfway between where the G-2 measurement begins and the end of the G-2. For deer and elk, no matter how many normal points it has, four circumferences per side will always be the exact number of circumference measurements.

This does not specifically address this type of antler configuration but it certainly does not say "except if a spike or spike with browtine". It seems to be pretty clear that you always get 4 measures.

Looking further I found this site: http://www.huntstats.com/scoring.html

Down on the page it specifically addresses this antler configuration. "If an antler has only two points-- T-l (G1 to us) and the beam tip, measure C-2 (H2), C-3 (H3) and C-4 (H4) at the same place. This will be halfway between the center of the base of T-l (G1) and the beam tip."

This is not from an official B&C site (but Boone and Crockett is referenced in several placed on this site) but based on this language and the clarity from B&C that you always get 4 measurements I would think it is 99.9% that somebody from B&C would confirm this method for the buck being discussed here.

-RPinenut
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-12 AT 09:02PM (MST)[p]From B&C score sheet

"H‑1‑2‑3‑4. Circumferences are taken as detailed in illustration for each measurement. If brow point is missing, take H‑1 and H‑2 at smallest
place between burr and G‑2. If G‑3 is missing, take H‑3 halfway between the base and tip of G-2. If G‑4 is missing, take H‑4 halfway between
G-2 and tip of main beam."

http://www.boone-crockett.org/pdf/SC_muledeer_typical.pdf
 
this is the reason i stated in my score why even score a buck like this? i guess it is interesting and a little entertaining.
 
you should P.M. BOHNTR in the bow hunting forum. he sits on the panel for p&y and can tell you what is right.
from my understanding-
" ALL ANIMALS WILL RECIEVE 4 MASS MEASURMENTS FOR EACH SIDE."

so no matter if its a spike or a 10 point- it's getting 4 mass measurements.
 
You can see how this is confusing. I personally thought there was 4 mass per side no matter what also. Then after talking to a guy who has scored over 10,000 animals and he says" you might as well be scoring air if you give a spike 4 mass mesurements". and then a great scorer only gave the spike side two also I thought maybe I am wrong. What? You wouldthink they know right? and then the others say what some of you are saying. Anyway keep talking and maybe we will keep getting closer to an official answer. Really appreciate the time and research some or you are putting to this.
Curtis Wilson
http://monarchtaxidermy.com/
 
huntmaster you kill me!!!LOL Entertaining is right. Anyway it will be good to know if any us kill a buck that has got a huge nontypical side and a spike on the other to enter into the books. Just never know it may happen. But from now on I will start listening to your advice.
http://monarchtaxidermy.com/
 
Pinenut is correct. 4-mass measurements no matter what. It is right off the website and on the scoresheet (H1,H2,H3,H4). It doesn't make sense on a spike, like it was said "scoring air," but how many people actually care what a spike or a two point score?
 
Good point, I saw that big nontypical at the expo that had a spike on one side, he was definitely worth scoring. I go for less mass measurements. That would put him at about 83 1/8. I think that was my guess:)
 
From the book, "A Boone & Crockett Club Field Guide to Measuring & Judging Big Game" , page 78, chapter 6 "Measuring & Judging Mule and Blactktail Deer";

"Four circumferences are always taken regardless of the number of normal points"

The rest of the paragraph and the following paragraph goes on to describe how to properly measure the circumferences and what to do in the case of a missing G1, G3, G4, etc. It doesn't address the situation that we currently have with this particular buck though on the spike side...


Horniac
 
Here is an idea...score the left side as a normal 2 point. Treat the "browtine" as the g2 and it clears this all up.
 
It sounds to me like there is no question about the 2-point side. Also no question about H-1 on the spike side. So if in fact you take 4 measurements per side no matter what, it would follow that you take the measurement at the middle of the main beam and use that for H-2, H-3, and H-4. Dividing it up into sections doesn't match with anything else I've ever heard about scoring. If you take pinenut's suggestion and use the brow tine as the G-2 it would come out pretty close to the triple measurement technique. You'd be taking the fat base circumference twice but you'd also be taking the skinny circumference of the brow tine.

Just don't go calling that brow tine a main beam, that would jack our spread credit all to heck.
 
why are we even argueing?
someone contact BOHNTR and settle this.

d-13 is a waist of time- if he shares his input , all it does is add more questions. lets get THE BEST to answer the question.
 
4 on the right... 2 on the left. The right antler gets mass measurements at the 1/4 and 3/4 length to the G2 due to the missing eyeguard and 1/2 the length to the tips on the other two points. The left side gets a measurement at the smallest circumference below the eyeguard and then one at the halfway point to the tip.
 
A PISSCUTTER is a PISSCUTTER is a PISSCTTER!

10 MASSIVE Mass merasurements on that Buck ain't gonna help!:D


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
If nothing else gets cleared up, at least I now know what a PISSCUTTER is!

As far as scoring this buck, if you had 10 B&C officials score this buck, I doubt any two of them would come up with the same score. Besides the mass measurements, can anyone agree on the inside spread credit? The spread credit has to be taken parallel to the skull plate AND ENDS IF/AT THE POINT OF IRREGULAR FLAIR. The entire left side is irregular and isn't parralel to the right vs. the skull plate????

As far as the mass measurements, B&C states you have 4 measurements per side, period.
 
I tell you this monster scores 83 1/8 i promise. I hope a kid shot this for his first buck and that is why its mounted. Bess is this your buck?
 
>I tell you this monster scores
>83 1/8 i promise.
>I hope a kid shot
>this for his first buck
>and that is why its
>mounted. Bess is this
>your buck?

Tell You what Huntmaster!

The Buck is way Bigger than My 2011 Buck!:D

I'll show you my 2011 Tag & Prove it too!:D




[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Nuke this pointless thread and start over with a buck that is worth scoring No one cares what a 2x1 scores anyway. No one even knows how to score it so its just a bunch of guesses that mean nothing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 06:52PM (MST)[p]I would also suggest that this buck be dropped from the contest and that we just go with 12 or add another good buck to replace this dink, pisscutter, or whatever you guys want to call him, LOL!
 
What ever it take to get this DINK to 88 3/8 is what need to be done NEXT !!!!!
 
Topgun, dont be bitter just because you were 25 inches off! :)

Hopefully he can figure it out and post the score. I dont care if its a dink, its a competition and its fun to see how close we can get. for those bitchin dont play. its that simple!!!
 
If it's around 100" like Monarch mentioned, then I'm a lot closer than 25", LOL! I'm not bitter or bitchin. I just think he has a lot more to do with teaching and his taxidermy business than to be worrying about the score on this buck when so many experts can't agree on how it should be scored. No matter how it ends up you know there are going to be some that say they got screwed or it's not right based on what has been discussed on how to do this one. I'm just in this for fun and could care less if I come in last because I've not lived out west where I could get any great experience at scoring mulies. Toss in a whitetail and I think I can hold my own most of the time without even sitting down with a scoresheet.
 
An overview of the deer I have shot in the last 45 years leads me to believe that I need to learn how to score #6 rather than #7.....
 
If 2 more mass measurments gets that dink 10" im going to call bs.

No way in hell that thing is 5" around!

He posted 90 1/8 with 2 mass measurments left out.





hornkiller.jpg
 
I called the main office today and got an answer. TO be honest the main group was not even sure. They put their heads together and we solved the problem. So I don't know about you guys but I learned some stuff here and will take some good info from this. Topgun is right, I have 220 students to care about more than this contest. I look at the bright side of things and figured since it was a scoring contest this would be an educational buck to score. I was more ashamed when our hunter who is new to the sport which killed his first buck and shared the moment with his son. he is trying to get his family and sons into the sport. He was pretty bummed seeing your remarks on a memory of a lifetime for them. He was excited to have his first animal mounted to preserve the memory. I ruined it by posting his buck to this website. I will honor my commitment and finish this contest out, but this will by my last. This has just turned into what i did not want it to be. topgun you are the sane one here. I need to be spending my time on other things rather than this. I will post a winner tonight.
Curtis Wilson
http://monarchtaxidermy.com/
 
thats to bad. that buck is bigger than my first deer and a cool looking one to. congrads to the hunter. were suppose to be teaching our kids more than about antlers but also the meat and family time and so much more.
 
Sorry Curtis!

Pay no attention to My PISSCUTTER Post!

If it was my Buck,I'd still call it a PISSCUTTER!

But that's just me!

I wasn't tryin to make anybody mad!

Sorry If I made somebody mad,was just Joking around as always!


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Yeah, it's too bad we have a bunch of jack a$$es on here that make fun of a buck if he's not 180+. I thought this buck was a good choice for a scoring contest because obviously not everyone knows how to score him! And for the hunter and his dad that got the buck, there is nothing to be ashamed of here. We have all shot small deer at one time or another, and most of us probably will again. Everybody knows he is not a monster, and the only people that really care are the judgmental idiots on here. I still have my first buck's antlers on the wall, he is the smallest 3 point I have ever seen. He probably should have been a spike to be honest. But I'm proud of him. And you should be proud of your first one too.

I have also come to really appreciate good taxidermy. I got my first big buck a few years ago and had it mounted by Packout on this forum. He did such an amazing job I could not believe it. The thing literally looks alive. After that I began looking at every mount I saw very closely and really came to appreciate the detail and quality of my mount. I have not seen a deer in over 2 years that looks as nice until I saw the Monarch Mountain displays at the expo. You guys do top-notch work and it shows. So not only should someone be proud of their first buck, they should be just as proud to have it mounted by one of the best taxidermists around.
 
Well it appears there were 3 mass measurements left out. One that got torn off and 2 that were never there to begin with. 3 more mass measurements should be pretty close to 10" I reckon.
 
Curtis,

I am sorry that this left a family with a sore taste in their mouth. The young man should be proud of his accomplishment and this post should take nothing from that.

I appreciate you putting up the contests but I have also been too busy to hit them all. Don't let a few ruin your good intentions,

Rich
 
+1 Very well stated! Congrats to the hunter and his son on what I'm sure is a mount that should, and will, be remembered the rest of their lives!!!
 
congrats to the hunter for a great first buck/trophy and what a good looking mount/deer. its been fun doing this curtis and i appreciate all the work you do to put this on. just started doing it this year myself and have looked forward to seeing how close/far off i am every sunday night. hope these comments havnt ruined it for us but if they did i see why.
thanks for your time curtis.
josh
 

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