Getting RID of Vernon Unit

Robiland · Feb 21, 2012

I have heard some rumors flying around that the Dwr or Sfw (and I can honostly say I cant remember which group is pushing it), That they will get rid of the Vernon LE deer unit and make it a general season unit like the rest of the state.

Although the 30 other units are basically a LE units anyways. So I see it that before to long, we will have 30+ unit, including the Pauns, Henries, Books, and so on as General season draws, but clearly with major restrictions. Basially how it is now. So in other words, getting rid of the current point system for deer. Changing it to Colorado's system.

Deerlove · Feb 21, 2012

Wow that would sure favor lifetime hunters and dedicateds the first couple of years, then I think it would get shot out. Interesting for sure.

TheElitehornhunter · Feb 21, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 08:49AM (MST)[p]I also heard rumors of getting rid of the lifetime license tags. A lifetime license is only for General Season units so if they combined everything into LE units then Lifetime licenses would no longer be valid because General Season units wouldn't exist.

(2) (a) Each year, a lifetime licensee who is eligible to hunt big game may receive without charge, a permit for the unit of their choice for one of the following general deer hunts:

(i) archery buck deer;

(ii) any weapon buck deer; or

(iii) muzzleloader buck deer

Again if everything is listed as LE units then lifetime licenses become invalid because General Season units wouldn't exist.

pinenut · Feb 21, 2012

I do believe they need to get rid of the dual points system for deer?the big question is how. I don't think you can just add general preference points plus LE bonus points to a new number. For example my wife has about 7 general preference points and 7 LE bonus points?while it would be cool if she all of the sudden had 14 points I do not think that is fair to all. It would probably upset a few folks but perhaps the least painful solution is to take the higher of the 2 numbers from each person and make that their new point total.

Then, like Colorado, if you draw a first choice tag?whether it is the Henry Mountains or Wasatch Mountains, West?you should go back to zero. This would both reduce the odds for the premium tags as some people would just apply for the easier ones to draw and it would reduce the odds for the easy to draw units as you wouldn't get the thousands of people who apply for the premium hunts in for them too.

This just makes far too much sense...therefore I doubt it will happen soon.

Tree · Feb 21, 2012

So what happens with everyone currently putting in for LE deer? Flood the elk and pronghorn draw?

http://unitedwildlifecooperative.org

bragabit · Feb 21, 2012

Lifetime License holders will all go away eventually through attrition. You guys spend a lot of time worried about 3000 out of the 90000 tag holders. I know we have 5 Lifetime licenses in my family. There is not one of us applying for your holy Thousand Lakes unit. There is not one of us that would give our general tag up here in Southern Utah for a Vernon, Book Cliffs, Oak City or even Paunsaguant tag. I don't think we are the only ones this way. In fact my dad and I have a bunch of LE deer points enough to draw some of those tags and we applied for Antelope Island because we figured that gave us the least chance draw, and it is later than the general season. We won't even apply for the Henries because it is the same time as the general hunts, and we would rather hunt our normal spots with our family. I would be willing to bet 90% of Lifetime tag holder will be hunting the same unit this year as they have for the last 20 years.

hopper · Feb 21, 2012

A lifetime lisence in Utah was sold under a contract between the state and the lisence holder. It would be a huge fight to try and take them away. And who cares really???? The amount of lifetime license holders in Utah does not amount to enough people to really affect a unit. And yes I hold a lifetime license and I, like many others that hold a lifetime permit have no desire or want to put in for places like thousand peaks, vernon or other areas. We like the fact that we can still hunt as a family and friends every year

TheElitehornhunter · Feb 21, 2012

Lifetime licenses won't be valid anymore if GS units are made into LE units. Lifetime license holders wouldn't receive a tag every year. I hope they don't screw lifetime license holders but it might happen because of special interests

rugarm77 · Feb 21, 2012

"I have heard some rumors flying around that the Dwr or Sfw (and I can honostly say I cant remember which group is pushing it)"

Same group, they just sleep on different sides of the bed.

TheElitehornhunter · Feb 21, 2012

>Lifetime License holders will all go
>away eventually through attrition.
>You guys spend a lot
>of time worried about 3000
>out of the 90000 tag
>holders. I know we
>have 5 Lifetime licenses in
>my family. There is
>not one of us applying
>for your holy Thousand Lakes
>unit. There is not
>one of us that would
>give our general tag up
>here in Southern Utah
>for a Vernon, Book Cliffs,
>Oak City or even Paunsaguant
>tag. I don't think
>we are the only ones
>this way. In fact
>my dad and I have
>a bunch of LE deer
>points enough to draw some
>of those tags and we
>applied for Antelope Island because
>we figured that gave us
>the least chance draw, and
>it is later than the
>general season. We won't
>even apply for the Henries
>because it is the same
>time as the general hunts,
>and we would rather hunt
>our normal spots with our
>family. I would be
>willing to bet 90% of
>Lifetime tag holder will be
>hunting the same unit this
>year as they have for
>the last 20 years.

Cough Cough Cough Bullshit

pinenut · Feb 21, 2012

Tree: I think it should be left just like it is...you either apply for a deer, elk or antelope tag. Assuming the people who currently apply for a LE deer tag just apply for a deer permit that is currently a general tag there should be no addition to the elk pool. Could you imagine the reduction in LE elk apps if this was in place?

Or maybe so people can continue to accrue LE elk points while hunting "general" deer units you make 2 types of LE deer units...but use the same point pool for both. If you apply for a "premium" LE unit...basically all current LE units not just the Henry's and Paunsaugunt...you cannot apply for a LE elk tag. However, if you apply for a "standard" LE deer tag...basically all current general season units...than you can still apply for a LE elk tag.

That 2nd scenario is most similar to today where many people get an LE elk point each year but still hunt general season deer. It also leaves it as is where you cannot accrue points (as a resident) for both the Henry's deer and Pahvant elk each year.

bragabit · Feb 21, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 05:17PM (MST)[p]Elitehornhunter,
Sorry that we are not into hunting for the "elite" horns. If I can't hunt with my dad and brothers I don't really care to hunt. Ya we may not be able to kill Henry type bucks every year, but we do OK on solid mature bucks. Oh and by the way I asked three more Lifetime holders this afternoon and they share my same opinion. We have our spots we like, and know how to hunt, and would rather hunt them than anywhere else in the world. Sorry that is so hard for you to believe. Don't you have any traditions? Do you just run to the "unit of the year" each year trying to trying to build your ego?

DoctorD · Feb 21, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 06:06PM (MST)[p]Lifetme tags -say DEER tag for LIFE. Not GS.So i think it would be safe to say there not going anywhere!!!

TheElitehornhunter · Feb 21, 2012

NOT TRUE. A lifetime tag doesn't cover LE tags.

(2) (a) Each year, a lifetime licensee who is eligible to hunt big game may receive without charge, a permit for the unit of their choice for one of the following GENERAL deer hunts:

(i) archery buck deer;

(ii) any weapon buck deer; or

(iii) muzzleloader buck deer

Notice it says GENERAL deer hunts. I hope they don't do away with Lifetime license tags, but there are always loopholes and if everything was considered LE then AMEN to lifetime license tags.

TheElitehornhunter · Feb 21, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-12 AT 06:24PM (MST)[p]The rule would need to be changed to include LE deer tags. Good luck getting that fixed because you would be run out of town by all the people who don't have a lifetime license.

swbuckmaster · Feb 21, 2012

The vernon unit ain't going to general season! What ever you heard is bs! You think sfw would take a pay cut buy giving their tags back? Lifetime licenses ain't going anywhere either. Heck most of the guys in sfw are lifetime license holders. Why do you think there so pro rifle and pro slash tags. That's right they will get a tag no matter what.

bragabit · Feb 23, 2012

LAST EDITED ON Feb-23-12 AT 08:31PM (MST)[p]For those of you that are secretly hoping they turn all deer hunting into Limited Entry just to get rid of Lifetime tags. You should think about 12 and 13 year olds are not eligible to apply for Limited Entry hunts, only General Season. That would be a big revenue loss for the division and a loss of recruiting opportunity for future hunters. Neither of those things are going to happen. Remember that out of approximately 80000 tags that will be sold this year less than 4% around 3000 will go to lifetime tag holders. 12000, 15% will go to Dedicated hunters. 16000 20% will go to the youth. 49000 over 61% to the general public. Looks like Lifetime tags should be the least of your worries.

hornkiller · Feb 23, 2012

I had to wait till 14 so did thousands of others.
I think the kids can wait a year or 2!!!

Zeke · Feb 24, 2012

You must be a pup! LOL. I had to wait until I was 16 for a deer tag!

God bless the lifetime license holders.... ME!

Zeke

DoctorD · Feb 24, 2012

I had to wait till I was 16 so you got a break hornkiller. And now you say to hell with our youth they can wait? You are a HYPOCRiITE.

peakfreak · Feb 25, 2012

LOL...It's just that easy to get rid of the lifetime guys...not. That would be one big lawsuit. I'm not a lifetime holder. I also had to wait until I was 16 to hunt deer. I think they should issue 100% of the youth hunters a tag their first year.

"You'll never get a big one if you shoot a little one"

hornkiller · Feb 25, 2012

Doc did i say the hell with them?

Idiot read my post!

How am i a HYPOCRiITE?

DoctorD · Feb 25, 2012

Dont get your OVARIES hurt,you said the youth can wait a couple of years-wait for what? are the 12 and 13 year olds making an impact on the herds? It's a way for the dwr to make money make the kids wait till 14-16 then they lose money,then they can increase the price of your tags to make up for it.
And by the way I have your idiot HANGING!!!!!

HillbillyNnevada · Feb 25, 2012

>LOL...It's just that easy to get
>rid of the lifetime guys...not.
> That would be one
>big lawsuit.

A lawsuit would never have a chance. I guarantee they sold the the licenses with a disclaimer. Look at the changes they do every year without a disclaimer like let nonresidents switch from one big game appplication to every big game animal wrecking odds after they sold points for years on a different premise. Better yet, take nonresident tags out of the draw to pimp at the expo after NR guys put in for years thinking they had a shot to draw someday.

I think this issue is less about trying to phase out lifetime license holders and more about some people not liking it that people have deer points in 2 categories for deer. If they don't like it, they should have applied for deer instead of elk back in the day.

justamacguy · Mar 4, 2012

I get a chuckle out of this thread...

As of this year ALL units are really "limited entry". They all have license caps. So really limited entry is now the new general season. It is just wording semantics. The title of "limited entry' should go away. In the past hunters have interpreted the limited entry title to mean "trophy". This is not necessarily the case. All it means is that you are going to compete with fewer hunter and maybe on a different date than most.

Since all units have a cap now the title of "limited entry" for deer should just go away. Maybe the new title should be "price adjusted". If the DWR thinks that one unit presents a better opportunity or a nicer time of year to hunt they can charge more for that unit's hunting opportunity.

As some have implied that the youth hunt is for the financial gain of the DWR that is simply not true. The youth tags are deducted from the available tag number ceiling, not added in addition to the available tags. If you do away with the youth hunts, it just makes more tags available to the general pool of hunters... and there are enough of them to buy up that additional pool.