Utah 25B?

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WIDOW_MAKER

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With the proposal to issue a total of 72 general season deer tags for Thousand Lakes unit...What if 200 dedicated hunters/lifetime license holders chose 25B?

WIDOW_MAKER
 
Well maybe some mistake/misunderstanding? in reading your post---

But---

There are 80 archery tags 72/8

There are 80 muzzy tags 72/8

There are 240 any weapon tags 216/24

In the Recommended General Season Deer Draw Permits.

So say between DH hunters and Lifetime tag holders it combines to equal the 360 resident tags and a few non-ressy DH hunters get into the non-ressy tag pie.....

Probable----????

Could it happen???

Robb
 
400 total permits recommended, 80/240/80. I wonder which season they will pull the Lifetimes and DH from. Wasn't there supposed to be an overall unit percentage cap on these permits?
 
I would hope that with the DH tags they would pull 1/3 from each season. The lifetime tags are only good for one season so they should come from the season chosen.
 
167 DH already chose Thousand Lake without the lifetimes. Plan on at least 300 DH and lifetimes alone Remember this unit was below buck to doe objectives last year with about 40 total tags across all seasons. That unit will not recover for many many years after this season.
 
This was a classic case of looking at how many DH and Lifetimes chose this unit and then setting the numbers of hunters based on how many chose this unit. Again, 40 or so total tags last year and now magically it is set at 10 times that much after Lifetimes and DH get done choosing. This is not in any way based on sound wildlife management but was done completely backwards.
 
Don't you find it funny that the reason Thousand Lake was made a general season hunt was because it averaged around 18 buck per 100 does every year. Don't you think the numbers should stay the exact same as they were last year as a limited entry but instead they are going to issue 3 times a many tags. What do they think that will do to the Buck to Doe ratio. This should have been the easiest unit to figure out.
 
Man I dont see any of the DWR supporters/lovers (UWC) jumping in on this conversation saying what a bang up job the DWR is trying to do but cant because SFW is running things!
Besides those people will get thier dream managed unit after the hunt, 5-10 bucks per 100 does. The population will explode now without all those pesky bucks gobbling up all the food.
 
A lifetime hunter is guarenteed a tag but not always the unit that they choose. Same with a DH. They can put in for three choices. A percentage will go to each group but they are not guarenteed the unit that they put in for. I am trying to remember the way that it went at the Big Game Board and what the percentages were. There was quite a discussion at the RAC about it. If you are a lifetime holder and a DH at the same time you are not locked into the area for three years. If you are a DH the area you draw you are locked into for three years or what ever you have left on the DH program.
 
Well maybe the WB will address the issue. Lets remember that these numbers are only the recommendations from the DWR. The actual numbers are not set yet. However the WB does usually follow the recommendations of the DWR, despite what some of people on the internet believe so I guess we will see.
 
Let's see----

In 2011 as an LE buck unit....

Bow buck 7/0 tags

Muzzy buck 7/0 tags

Rifle buck 20/2 tags

36 tags total

For 2012 'Recommended' 400 tags....

Better draw it this year for sure!

Robb
 
>This was a classic case of
>looking at how many DH
>and Lifetimes chose this unit
>and then setting the numbers
>of hunters based on how
>many chose this unit.
>Again, 40 or so total
>tags last year and now
>magically it is set at
>10 times that much after
>Lifetimes and DH get done
>choosing. This is not in
>any way based on sound
>wildlife management but was done
>completely backwards.

Agreed. Too bad that a deer unit has to get massacred before the DWR will put a percentage cap on the lifetime license holders per unit. I guess they had to let them dig their own grave.

Who was saying Lifetimers evenly distribute themselves? ha, ya right.
 
Flinger,
None of you guys have any idea how many lifetime license holders chose 25B.. Or how well they will be distributed. The only figure you have is the people all ready enrolled in DH for the next 2 years. Everybody has the same opportunity to join DH, so there should be no complaining about it. Who wants to make a bet that there are more lifetime tag request for the Beaver, Pine Valley and probably the SW Desert than 25B? I will be surprised if 25B is in top 5 of total lifetime tags. People that don't live near 25B are not going to travel across the state to hunt it. They got lifetime tags to ensure they could hunt their same spots every year.
 
I think some do have an idea how many Lifetimers chose 25B. That idea is 140-160 LLs chose it or about 40% of the unit's permits.
 
Heard of three units in Utah that are already capped because of the dedicated hunters and lifetimes choosing the units. If you applied for these units and plan on getting a tag....not gonna happen. 25B is one of them....i am pretty irritated cause I had my dad apply for one of the units thats capped....wish they would have said something before the draws.
 
>Man I dont see any of
>the DWR supporters/lovers (UWC) jumping
>in on this conversation saying
>what a bang up job
>the DWR is trying to
>do but cant because SFW
>is running things!
>Besides those people will get thier
>dream managed unit after the
>hunt, 5-10 bucks per 100
>does. The population will explode
>now without all those pesky
>bucks gobbling up all the
>food.


haha! sounds like you need some more beer to cry into ehh! :p
 
Elite,

Hard to fight you on this round.

The only think I can think is that the previous l.e. numbers are understated for the unit. Couldn't private land be hunted with a southern tag previously?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-12 AT 04:34PM (MST)[p]You can hear anything. Doesn't make it true. I heard not one single lifetime holder chose 25B. See how easy that is.
 
Some of this information is incorrect. I have a lifetime. We already picked our unit and there are not 3 choices. The lifetime got on line and picked there season and unit. 100% guaranteed. I even called the DWR for clarification. If you are a lifetime you get your choice, that's it. If 500 people choose Thousand Lake they all get Thousand lake even though it could only handle about 40 last year and the 10 years before that. Not sound management. They were planning on having those tags disperse by a matter of course. Most places maybe but anyone could see that Thousand Lake was going to get absolutely hammered and it will.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-22-12 AT 06:28AM (MST)[p]Looks like you guys where correct.

I put in for 25B in the 72 tags Muzzy hunt with 9 Preference Gen deer points.

Yeh--- 2 guys with 10 pts (no one with higher Gen deer Preference pts//// and 3 of us in the 9 pt pool)

I did not draw 25B muzzy.

Now my buddy that lives in Loa had 3 Preference Gen deer pts and drew the rifle tag in 25B.....sure--more tags offered in the rifle--216-- than muzzy/bow options.

Confusing....

Robb

EDIT--those are ressy tag numbers.
 
Thousand Lake, the bastard child of all units. I challenge any DWR person or maybe even an SFW person to explain the rationale behind the number of tags being given out to this unit. The DWR wants us to believe they are trying to increase the deer herd in the state. This is crap, we all know it, its just not true. I know this unit very well, and I can tell you a few things.#1 There are going to be alot of dissapointed hunters that draw for this unit. It was POOR hunting here for the 40 hunters that we had, let alone 400. Just look at the numbers. #2 The hunters that do end up being successful here are going to wipe out the deer herd, period. #3 The deer herd here just doesnt seem to be what they say, 18-20 bucksper 100 doe, I have not seen this. what I have seen are more coyote than I have ever seen before. The pedators here are way out of hand. Talk about a unit that has been hugely mishandled, this is it. Why Why Why!! Cant somebody do something about this before its to late. This whole debacle couldnt be any more obvious. Residents of Utah we need a change.
 
Well it not the NR hunter this time.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
Please, sorry about that news. That's a tough break. Thanks for posting though.

I had two points and thought I had a good chance with the muzz. I stewed over it a lot and decided 1000 lakes would just be a draw magnet, especially considering there was no clear information regarding caps on lifetime and dh.

I decided to sacrifice for the team and put in for neighboring unit with my dad who has 0 points.

Hopefully we'll find out soon if it paid off. (He won't check his card.)
 
They only gave out 20 permits total for the 1000 lakes unit. The dedicated and life timers took 380 before the draw. So the rest of use peasants get 4 Archery 4 muzzy and 12 riffle. Not to mention that 20% goes to you youth. That would be 80 tags for the unit. I say that only youth got any regular tags. What a joke!!!!!!!
 
Because a dedicated hunter puts in for a unit does not mean that he gets that unit. At the rac's a percent of the DH get permits. That is why the DH can put in for three units. They draw a unit they are stuck with it for three years. The Big Game Board also passed what the rac's did. So Life timers get their tags but only a percent of the DH get a tag. Hang in there PleaseDeer, They will continue for a while with the hitting of the cards. A few years back I got the email telling me I was successful before my card was hit.
 
Birdman, I hate to keep correcting you, but you are wrong. There was NO cap per unit on Lifetime license holders AND there was NO cap on current Dedicated hunters choosing a unit. Around 180 Current Deds and 180-200 Lifetimers took around 360-380 permits from the 400 quota. That left 20-40 permits for the applicants in the General Draw. All I know is that I made my comments public record that this would happen before it did.

As was stated before-- The weapon splits would have given 4/12/4 to 8/24/8, and the youth took a chunk of those available- they may have received 20% of 400 or they may have received 20% of 20-40 after the splits. I don't know. If they got 20% of the 400 (80) there would have been 0 tags for the adults to draw.

Do you realllly attend all the RACs and Boards you claim.... hahaha I am just razzing you a little, all the changes are hard to keep track of.
 
Okay--thanks...

But with 9 freaking Gen deer points and not going rifle....one would have thought....ya know...

Robb
 
Packout, I checked on the dedicated hunter program. They said that a DH can put in for up to 5 units. You are not guaranteed your first choice. That is with the changes to the 30 units. I thought that there was a percentage of dedicated hunters per unit. There may not be but after making a call got the answer they are not guaranteed their first choice.
As for the RAC's and Wildlife board, I may miss one now and again but very few. I try to catch all the meetings such as the fishing one that they are having this month to get peoples desire for fishing in the State.
 
I am not a dedicated hunter so I do not put in for it. I knew that there were some changes made with the 30 units. When checking with the Wildlife Board records it comes up that a DH can up in for up to 5 units with the first not being guaranteed. I checked with a phone call and was told the same thing. I do not know about the 2 or third year rule but know that what unit they draw as of this year they are locked into it for three years unless they are a lifetime lic. holder that is a dedicated hunter. I do not know how you know how many put in for that unit before the odds come out. Do they make that known to the DH hunters?
 
Birdman....that is for hunters that were not currently a dedicated hunter. If a person wants to become a dedicated hunter now then thats the process. For those that were already signed up and either had one or two more years left in the program then those dedicated hunters had their choice of unit guaranteed. I was one of those DH's and got my choice of unit...no questions asked. I will be signed up for that unit for my remaining 2 years. This was done (I assume) to uphold the contract between hunters that were already signed up for the program and the DWR.
 
Thanks for the info. How is it that some of the people know how many people have picked what unit all ready. Is there info for the dedicated hunter or is there some way to get the information.
 
Looks like there is ample evidence now that lifetimers do not evenly distribute themselves, some saw it coming from a mile away but most wouldn't listen or had conflicts of interest!. No excuses now, What's the board/dwr waiting for to put a percentage cap on each unit for lifetimers? Why are they not discussing it in the open? Wonder what other units got tag grabbed by the lifetimers? Especially now with a two tier bd ratio there needs to be caps.
 
Thanks Ridgetop

I figured the southern tier units would get the most attention from the DH/Lifetimers.

25B Plateau,
Thousand
Lakes 167 56 111


25C/26 Plateau,
Boulder/Kaiparowits 189 66 123


28 Panguitch
Lake 146 39 107


29 Zion 128 50 78


30 Pine
Valley 371 136 235


Robb
 
That document just shows DH's selection, not the lifetimers selection. But I would guess that the lifetimers percentage range is similar to the DH of .6% to 41.8% of a units tags. Interesting (but not surprising) to see that all the southern units but 1 were over the statewide 4.2% percentage (2nd and 3rd year DH out of the 86500 total tags approved). Of course DH are not going to evenly distribute themselves, so the 15% cap was placed on the unit. So why were they thinking the lifetimers wouldn't hot spot?
 
>That document just shows DH's selection,
>not the lifetimers selection.
>But I would guess that
>the lifetimers percentage range is
>similar to the DH of
>.6% to 41.8% of a
>units tags. Interesting (but
>not surprising) to see that
>all the southern units but
>1 were over the statewide
>4.2% percentage (2nd and 3rd
>year DH out of the
>86500 total tags approved).
>Of course DH are not
>going to evenly distribute themselves,
>so the 15% cap was
>placed on the unit. So
>why were they thinking the
>lifetimers wouldn't hot spot?

At one of the RAC's, I asked the question about the LL caps and was told by Anise, they believed the LL's would spread themselves out like they always have and so they didn't feel caps were necessary. But he also said that it was something they would look at after this first year and adjust if needed. It looks like it is needed! In a lot of areas this first year (or two) will present some problems that will not turn out as anticipated and we'll have to make some corrections. Some of these changes look good on paper and in theory, but don't do so well in the field.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-26-12 AT 12:49PM (MST)[p]I can see the link and info on the DH hunters selections but I can't see where everyone is getting the info to comment on the lifetimer's selections.

I would appreciate any help pointing me to that info.

Thanks
 
They said in a meeting I think southern RAC meeting that they had 180 DH and 200 Lifetimers. They said that leaves 20 tags for the public. I think those 20 tags went to youth and nonres hunters.

The DWR must have asked the draw people how many Lifetimers selected that unit.

When they started the lifetimer program they said they would not guarantee tags after the state went to regions. That's why my dad and I didn't buy them. Now they are going back on what they said they would do when we went to regions.

I don't see a problem with a guaranteed tag, but they should take the tag that they draw. If they don't draw a tag in the first 5 choices then distribute them into the lesser units.

One problem we encounter is the people that have the lifetime license have connections to the people at the top of making the rules. If they change the rules it will hurt their friends. It's sad but true.
 
I have had mine since 1983 and it is a gauranteed deer tag FOR LIFE.!!! They already had regions then-southern, northern,etc.
Your last paragraph is as funny as the third one.
DO you have any proof of either one ?? Or is that just what you think? Your whole post is a joke- (you dont see a problem with a gauranteed tag BUT they should take the tag they draw?)
You must be talking about DH. Lifetimers pick not draw that= gauranteed tag.!!!! Sorry your not one of the so called ELITE lol
 
1983 was state wide hunt all three seasons. Maybe we could let the lifetimers hunt all three seasons and state wide. I am glad you have one, no problem with that. The Lifetimers should go into the draw, I know you get to pick. If you don't get your 1-5 choice then you would get distributed into the bottom units even if they are full. That would guarantee you a tag every year.
 

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