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Doe's genetics?
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nv_hunter
(1456 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
05:53 PM (MST)
"Doe's genetics?"

So we here all the time that its genetics that make a big buck. I started thinking about this and wondering if the doe plays a big part in this? Just like with humans, if two tall people reproduce then it will probably be a tall child. So when it comes to antler size, does the doe contribute to this in any way?


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  Table of Contents  

 Subject   Author   Message Date   ID 
 RE: Doe's gene...  JakeH      Mar-27-12   1 
  RE: Doe's gene...  huntindad4      Mar-27-12   2 
  RE: Doe's gene...  93trojan      Mar-27-12   3 
   RE: Doe's gene...  mmwb      Mar-27-12   4 
    RE: Doe's gene...  tx_packmule      Mar-27-12   5 
    RE: Doe's gene...  quest      Mar-27-12   6 
     RE: Doe's gene...  quest      Mar-27-12   7 
      RE: Doe's gene...  ShowThemToMe      Mar-28-12   8 
 RE: Doe's gene...  cosmic_cowb...      Mar-28-12   9 
  RE: Doe's gene...  Idabow      Mar-28-12   10 
   RE: Doe's gene...  Cornhusker      Mar-28-12   11 
    RE: Doe's gene...  Castnshoot      Mar-28-12   12 
     RE: Doe's gene...  wuffie      Mar-28-12   13 
     RE: Doe's gene...  cosmic_cowb...      Mar-29-12   14 
      RE: Doe's gene...  Tikka      Mar-29-12   15 
       RE: Doe's gene...  virgil125      Mar-29-12   16 
 RE: Doe's gene...  mcfly83      Apr-13-12   17 
 RE: Doe's gene...  1FastGambler      Apr-24-12   18 

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  Messages in this topic  

JakeH
(2103 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
06:02 PM (MST)
1. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Ive always been told that the Doe carrys the more dominant gene, and that really the buck has little to do with the size of the antlers on there offspring.

But it cant hurt to have a big buck do all the breeding aswell...


Jake H. SHED OR DEAD IT DONT MATTER TO ME!!!


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huntindad4
(1604 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
07:49 PM (MST)
2. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Im sure it is just as with humans and other animals, some will get traits from the mother and some from the father just depends on the more dominant genetic marker.

There cannot be a hard and fast rule or the gene pool would not expand, if a doe carries the genetics for good antlers where does she get it? From her mom in the theory above, who got it from her mom etc. so where doe the buck ever weigh in?

Some people look like dad and some like mom, some dogs work and act like the mom and some like the dad, etc.

I think the theory of does carrying all the genetic weight came from the faction of our hunting brethren who dont like trophy units and antler restrictions and other things managers use to improve the genetics of herds because if it were true they can argue that we can shoot any and every age and antler class and not hurt genetics.

Bill

Kill the buck that makes YOU happy!

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93trojan
(46 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
08:22 PM (MST)
3. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

I guess all of those whitetail breeders are wasting their $ on prize bucks and their sperm? Maybe that's why they can't breed any bigger bucks? Come on man. Does definitely have input...but not all of it.

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mmwb
(2357 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
08:42 PM (MST)
4. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Apparently both the does and the bucks contribute. The breeders seem to pay as much attention to the does' lines as they do to the bucks'.

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tx_packmule
(805 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
09:00 PM (MST)
5. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Very true and they still might throw trash from recessives coming out in offspring.


>Apparently both the does and the
>bucks contribute. The breeders seem
>to pay as much attention
>to the does' lines as
>they do to the bucks'.
>


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quest
(1987 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
09:03 PM (MST)
6. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

There's a DVD out about (Whitetail deer) antlers and according to there study's the doe has more to do with antlers growth and shape than the buck.

quest

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quest
(1987 posts)
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Mar-27-12, 
09:07 PM (MST)
7. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

You know it kinda make sense if we are harvesting big bucks in a certain unit after awhile you would think the bucks in that unit would get smaller, food for thought.

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ShowThemToMe
(0 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
05:19 AM (MST)
8. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

JUDAS!

If a He TARD Midget Breeds a She TARD Midget what do you get?

This shouldn't be too hard to figure out!


SHOW THEM TO ME!
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!


Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can

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cosmic_cowboy
(694 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
08:30 AM (MST)
9. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

A doe with a large antlered father will pass that on to her male fawns even if bred by a smaller buck.
This is what Ive read in a number of books....
but who knows if their TARDS!

CC

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Idabow
(0 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
09:20 AM (MST)
10. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

If a big buck fathers 20 fawns in one year, and 10 are does and 10 are bucks, alot more of the does are going to breed than bucks. The does will be breeding right away, where the bucks will have to deal with natural mortality and hunters for about 3-4 years until he is mature enough to have his own herd of does.


"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone

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Cornhusker
(3878 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
01:23 PM (MST)
11. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Bess you're a natural at teaching maybe you should think about a career change. That analogy says it all in simple to understand terminology. It also explains some of the things I read and some of the posts on MM, all in one sentence.

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Castnshoot
(817 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
01:47 PM (MST)
12. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Most Muley hunters like to kill the buck with the bigger antlers.

Over time this will and has drained the Genes for larger antlers from both Does and Bucks in many herds.

If our grand children are still able to hunt a hundred years from now a 30 inch buck will be very rare.

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wuffie
(0 posts)
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Mar-28-12, 
03:04 PM (MST)
13. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

Don't let Birdie see this! He might accuse me of copywrite infringement again! hahaha

"Genetic Contribution of Does. Female ungulates contribute at least as much to the antler and horn quality of their male offspring as do the sires. Experiments have shown that whitetail fawns born from the same doe, but sired by very different bucks, often have antler conformations similar to each other and sharing characteristics with their motherís father. A male-to-female ratio of 1:2 or 1:3 means that 66-75 percent of the total gene pool is made up of females that cannot be subjected to selective pressures related to horn or antler quality. It would be very difficult to manipulate the quality of horns or antlers by incomplete selection on only 25-34 percent of the gene pool."

http://www.boone-crockett.org/news/featured_story.asp?area=news&ID=127

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cosmic_cowboy
(694 posts)
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Mar-29-12, 
08:40 AM (MST)
14. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

A 30" buck is very rare now! But I think its more because they don't live long enough to reach their full potential.Most are killed before they reach 6 to 7 yrs old.

CC

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Tikka
(2312 posts)
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Mar-29-12, 
11:17 AM (MST)
15. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

MOST of the bucks in Tardville get killed before their spots disappear!!!!!

Let alone before they reach 6 or 7...

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virgil125
(61 posts)
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Mar-29-12, 
02:29 PM (MST)
16. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-12 AT 02:30 PM (MST)

As a deer breeder we focus more on the doe side than the bucks. You can look at a buck and see what his potential is but a doe you cannot see what she is capable of so we carefully select our does from genetic lines that are known to carry on well to their offspring. Not saying the buck side is not important but sometimes we will take a chance on a buck that scores well even though he might not have "great" genetics. From my experience it seems like the doe has as much if not more to do with what her sons will look like than the buck she is bred to does.

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mcfly83
(0 posts)
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Apr-13-12, 
11:39 PM (MST)
17. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

It depends if antler growth is a sex linked gene. For example in humans some hair characteristics for males come from the mother (like hair loss) because it is linked to the X chromosome and only the mother contributes the X chromosome to males since the Y can only come from the father. Usually certain traits will be sex linked not an entire body part or feature. So may be the shape is sex linked, but not the entire rack.

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1FastGambler
(1014 posts)
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Apr-24-12, 
12:38 PM (MST)
18. "RE: Doe's genetics?"

According to a study done in NM on a Muley ranch, the doe is 100% responsible for antler genes.

Certain does always produced bucks with small antlers while certain does always produced bucks with large antlers. The various bucks that bred these does over the years made zero impact on antler size.

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