BYE BYE!! Wasatch Extended Archery

[BlastNCast]

After reading all the new posts on the tags everyone has drawn/not drawn,(1st through 5th choices).

I have come to realize that there are going to be a ton of people depending on the Wasatch extended season to give them a quality hunt.

Does anyone else see a problem with this?

I personally feel this is going to turn the front into a circus and destroy the quality hunt that it is.

Thoughts?

 

[blazingsaddle]

I have to admit, our 2nd choice was geared solely around just getting a tag in hand, with the intentions of relying on the extended area.
I'm going to guess, its going to be exactly what you say it will, A GIANT CIRCUS! We will see if its worth it at the end of the year.
It was bad enough before this year. I wish the front could go back to the way it was when I first started archery hunting it. At times I felt like I had it all to myself. Canyons that once held multiple mature bucks now hold only does and an equal amount of hunters. The place has changed too much in the last 15 years, and not in a good way that I can see.

I don't know exactly how I feel about it now. I love the open opportunity it offers, and at the same time I believe the quality will slip even farther with option 2 in place.

 

[joethebowhunter]

yea I have hopes of genting it done on the general archery unit 29, but I also look foward to extended every year. front has some quality bucks, and to have it slamed with so many hunters is a shame.

 

[Midnight]

Opening season day... Packed with trucks.

Don't believe they belonged to "save the canyons " group.

All the deer decal stickers give me impressions a lot of people are going close to home these days.

Deer are thinning out. Would agree the unknown pockets of less traveled or less hunted spots are could still hold a descent buck.

I have always believed the vertical climb eliminates most newbies

I welcome any that I see on the hill. I've tried to incorporate another hunter bumping deer into me.

Game on!

Midnight

 

[SWAGshootn]

I couldn't agree with you more. I think there will be an increase in the amount of people on the front come the extended season. I too have read all the comments about "just drawing a tag" to hunt the front. But when it comes to the rubber meeting the road, how many will climb the hill?

 

[VELVETRUSH]

I love the front and hunt it religously and it would make my day if they did away with the extended. All people wait for is the snow to get deep enough to put deer in positions they wouldn't normally be in. They glass them from the road and give it hell.

 

[c3]

The front has been a circus opening day for the last 5 or 8 years. What possibly could be crazier than it has been? There's only 15,000 people who will be able to hunt it the 5th week and most of those never want to work that hard anyway.

I know there will be at least two less opening day than last year

Cheers,
Pete

 

[ridgetops]

I think pretty much the same hunters will be hunting it this year as in years past. I don't think there will be a huge influx of new hunters. If what you say is true about people getting those 2nd and 3rd choice tags in other units just to hunt the front. That should help out those other units that will recieve less pressure and lower harvest. That's not a bad thing in my eyes.

 

[middlefork]

No more archery tags were issued overall and people are required to hunt their draw unit during the regular season. If anything there will be less people during the regular season and the same amount during the extended.

Is that too many? Up for debate but that is what the extended was put in place for.

 

[swbuckmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-12 AT 08:55AM (MST)[p]Blast and cast Im with ya on this one as well

If one area cant handle 15,000 buck tags and 15,000 doe tags what makes it fare that the front has to have these tags. BS biology at its best! I've never seen the deer numbers up there so low in my life. Im sure someone on here will say im full of bs about low deer numbers but its the truth. Im all for max opportunity at great bucks but an area can be socially and biologically affected by too much hunting despite what the dwr says.

If it was ran where you had to draw this area to actually hunt the whole unit along with the extended season it would be world class unit you could draw and hunt every year or at least every other year for henry class bucks. All you have to to is simply choose a lesser weapon and select 1st choice Wasatch front just like any other area..

I honestly hope all of the guys that decide to put in for another area and plan on hunting the front later on actually kill a buck in their first choice area. This will do a few things. First it will mean they cant hunt the front. Second it will mean they kill a buck in there second or third choice area and it wont be available for guy the rifle guys and muzzy guys that wanted to actually hunt that area for their first choice. This might anger them enough to change this bs loop hole.

If you are a guy who wants to hunt an archery only area with an extended season then put in for the hunt. It will be way easier to manage tags, over hunting, under hunting, buck to doe ratios ect ect this way.

 

[LuckyShot]

+1 swbuckmaster.
I love to hunt the front and I love the challenge of doing it with a bow. It is discouraging, however, to see so many guys show up in November to take advantage of the only area in the state (almost) that allows archery hunting during the rut. It would be nice to see archery tags for this area given solely to those who were willing to actually put in and draw for that specific wasatch unit.

I understand that the DWR needs to give some incentive for more guys to choose archery hunting over rifle. This will help the deer herd over-all as the success rate for archery hunters is much lower than rifle. However, this "archery incentive" should not come at the expense of one specific deer unit: in this case, the Wasatch Front.

If the DWR wants to give hunters an incentive to pick up a bow instead of a rifle or muzzleloader, then just keep it simple: give archery hunters state-wide tags and make the rifle hunters draw for a specific region (as they did this year). You manage and improve the state-wide deer herd not by limiting archery hunters, but by controlling and managing the rifle hunters. Thats just simple math.

The extended Wasatch Front/Late Season hunt should be a specific draw-tag and not a free-for-all for 15,000 archery hunters.....IMO

 

[ridgetops]

I think you guys are missing the point. The archery extended area was never intended to become a trophy area. It was to keep the deer pushed up away from the houses and its intent is to keep the deer numbers as low as possible. Again to keep the deer out of peoples yards. I think the DWR looks at the Wasatch Front deer herd the same way as the Vernon and Henries elk herds. They don't want their numbers to get too big. I'm not saying I like it but I think that's the deal.


There's always next year

 

[swbuckmaster]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-12 AT 05:31PM (MST)[p]Ridge you going to throw me under the buss and say I cant have a good buck to doe ratio lol after I went to bat over your issues with your areas buck to doe ratios. You know I know what the divison wants and that is to keep the deer numbers under a certain deer population objective like any other area in this state. The buck to doe ratios are up for grabs as you know and if you want to change them then you need some political persuasion on your side.

Good thing we as hunters do have a say in the matter or at least that is why I've tried to be politically active when it comes to this stuff. So my goal is to turn this train around. The front used to be an incredible area to hunt. It still pretty good but is slipping incredibly fast. It can still handle a larger number of hunters then a rifle area which is good because it allows for more people to hunt a smaller area. The only down side is they have to choose a lesser weapon. The front however cant handle the pressure its been getting the last few years imho. The deer numbers should reflect what Im saying unless they are bs. They can only hide there BS numbers so long before other people start questioning them.

 

[chsnmuleys]

most people on the front road hunt but ya its goin to be disgusting up there

 

[chsnmuleys]

velvetrush hit perfect comment they want it to be easy and not work for it

 

[swbuckmaster]

There is noting wrong with hunting from a vehicle if its legal. You can pretty much scout the front year round from a vehicle in most places but to actually hunt the deer you have to get out at some point.

 

[ridgetops]

Ya, I wouldn't waste my time on the front. It's been way over hunted the last few years and the deer are so spooky that you can't get within 200 yards of most of them. The predators are out of control up there too. The chances are better that you will get your windows broke out by an anti hunter, than filling your tag on that unit.



Sound better SW? Now get out from under that bus and go check out one of my old honey holes up there.

 

[swbuckmaster]

I have a tag this year but I dont think ill spend much time chasing the deer. I think if I do waste some time up there im going to waste it chasing elk instead. Maybe ill end my elk drought..

My kid is finally old enough to hunt with me so most of my time will be spent hunting with her. Since shes not old enough to hunt with a bow in the early season I will be stuck scouting a rifle areas instead.

so the deer might be safe from my arrows this year.

 

[Ticks N Tines]

The front should be it's own unit. Let the dedicated WF hunters hunt it and weed out the wieners that use it as a last chance opprotunity.

Most of the people can't tell the private from the public, and they cause problems that could lead to the closure of the whole thing.

If you want to hunt the front, you should apply to hunt the front.

 

[alpinebowman]

The same people are going to be there that have always been there. More deer will make it just due to less pressure the first month. I think the first week is the easiest time to kill a deer on the front.

alpinebowman

>>>---shots that are true pass right through--->

 

[DROPEMDEAD]

That was my plan to just to hopefully get a tag in the draw so i could hunt the extended, For the last atleast five years it has been a circus up there and ya its just going to get worse, but i found if your willing to hike the extra mile or two you will get away from most the hunters that hunt the wasatch front.

 

[theox]

i think maybe you guys should find a few diff areas on the front. i hunted it the first time two years ago did a lot of research with maps and found an awesome canyon that i seen only 2 other guys in a week in. I seen a buck everyday and even some nice ones. It was awesome! i had a blast! i live in southern utah so i only hunt it if i dont tag out down here. My sister lives up in slc and i go visit her for a week and hunt the front its becoming a tradition for me and i love it. the front is meant to keep deer numbers in check. maybe what they need to do is quit doe hunting for a year or 2, just bucks only. i think the front is a huge area and with only 15000 archery tags statewide, only a fraction of that will hunt the front. It sounds to me that the doe hunt is what is causing the problems, Im not a front expert but with what i saw, there is plent y of room for a lot of archers. I think the front will be fine imo.

 

[HorseCreek]

I think you are going to see the same number of front hunters but your are going to see the archery elk hunt go nuts! All the guys that didn't draw a deer tag (all weapons) are going to hit up the archery elk!


Traditional >>>------->

 

[elkfromabove]

I can't see how this year's archery hunt will be any different from past years unless it's even better! The archery permit numbers are about the same. The archery success rate will be about the same, so the same number of people who hunt the unit after the general archery season will likely be as it has been. And don't forget that there is now an area on the west side of I-15 to the Great Salt Lake added to both the Wasatch Front and Ogden Extended units and some of the locals will probably take advantage of their own or a friend's or relative's private property over there and won't even show up on the mountain. BYE BYE Wasatch Extended Archery? For some of you maybe, but not for this Southern Utah Bowhunter!! (Unless, hopefully, I don't need it this year!)

 

[Finn]

Let's see...

The extended seasons, (they aren't units), have been examples of successful management, meaning they have met management objectives. So the extended season boundaries have been enlarged (again) and in all likelihood, the model will be applied elsewhere in the state when similar objectives are desired. Even though the management objective has been to use hunters to manage wildlife, (instead of manage wildlife for hunters), thousands of bowhunters have enjoyed the annual benefits - benefits that don't necessarily focus on big antlers. Of course, big antlers was never a management objective of the extended seasons anyway.

It makes no sense to toss a successful management strategy just to replace it with a limited entry hunt with completely different objectives. If you think LE hunts are the ticket and you want more, then why not pick an actual unit where that management strategy is appropriate and go for it?

As far as politics go, bowhunters have some serious fights coming up that we can work on together. But if this is really the fight you want to pick, we'll have to be on opposite sides of the fence. That doesn't make much sense, either.

 

[jstwnahnt]

The extended hunt is what motivates me to pass on the little guys every year. I've never taken a deer off the front, but I look forward to trying every year. I cant imagine these changes will affect the deer herd. The success rate is too low to have much affect. If anything I think it will spread the pressure out over those months. Basically you have 2 openers to split up the people that want to hunt it.

 

[PleaseDear]

That is why I have 10 Gen deer Preference pts now.

I just would do the point code and buy a leftover bow buck tag.

Although I did try and dump my 9 pts this year on a Gen buck unit, I didn't draw so now I have 10 pts and will buy a leftover archery tag---I could careless about what leftover unit I buy as I only want to hunt the WF.

Robb

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

Pleasedeer,

Sounds like you and your 3 best friends will have the pick of the litter next year!

From what I an tell 1000 lakes rifle needed 4 points. Its amazing there was no chance with muzz.

This year seems to largely be about picking the right weapon for certain units.

 

[BlastNCast]

Here are two situations that I see being issues:

Archery Hunter A that archery hunts every year in another unit. They have never hunted the Front because they do just fine in the unit they normally hunt. This year is different because they did not draw a tag for the unit they usually hunt so now they have drawn their second choice to an area they have never hunted or are going to go stand in line to get a leftover tag to a unit they have never hunted. They now have the option to go learn a unit they have never hunted or they can go spend more time on the Front or learn it for the first time.

Archery Hunter B that puts in with his family and friends and only a few draw or they draw but draw different units. So now he still wants to hunt with family or friends and to do that they are going to turn in their tags and get leftover archery tags so they can make plans to spend time on the Front because that way they all can be there together. Archery Hunter B has never archery hunted before but it is worth him learning a new weapon just to spend time with family and/or friends.

I give these two situations because I personally have friends and family that fall into one of these two situations. I know some will say "Oh it won't effect me or the unit because I hunt in the hardest to get to places and the Front is just to difficult." Truth is the Front for the most part is a steep dirty beast and takes dedication but it really isn't that hard to learn. I know hunters that have hunted it their first time and take trophies of a lifetime.

So will the additional time spent by the hunters that already hunted the Front or the additional hunters that have never hunted the Front effect the hunt or deer herd?

I know they have issued the same amount of tags but either way to me this puts more hunters on the Front that normally would not have been there. These hunters are going to spend more time up there than they had before or they are just going to go learn it and/or hunt it for the first time.

I love the opportunity the Front offers. I would hate to see anything happen to the hunt/unit that it is. I don't think it's going to be because they change the way the front is managed but because the way they manage other archery opportunities around the state that will impact it.

It will be interesting to see the draw data and how the numbers for each unit played out this first year.

I guess time will only tell.

 

[backinthegame]

I don't really see the pressure in November being all that different than in years past...yeah everyone with any general archery deer tag can hunt it, but that's not new...everyone with any archery tag has always been able to hunt it.

The early season might be a bit thinner for crowds with fewer hunters, maybe.

I agree that it would be nice to see the Wasatch Front (extended and otherwise) set aside only for the hunters that have drawn that unit, but I've always been under the impression that the extended hunt's primary focus was to keep deer populations in check since they basically winter in folks backyards all winter...not really set out to be a "trophy" unit.

 

[PleaseDear]

That is true SMELLYBUCK.

I certainly hope that those very few that drew the rifle tag with 4 or more Gen deer points (25B) are coming off a Mission or off a Military tour of duty.

Ya know--serving our God or serving our Country.

Robb

PS. with the rumor mill that the LE Vernon will be a Gen unit next year.....maybe I will dump my 10 Gen deer pts. there.....

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

Pleasedeer,

Good luck with Vernon. I think that would be better than 1000 lakes. Maybe you can carry a friend too as the higher point rifle hunters got flushed with 1000 lakes this year.

I have some family that got shut down with East Canyon rifle, 3rd & last choice. 700 muzzle tags left in there. I have another friend that didn't draw Boulder 1st choice muzz with a point, but other people drew Boulder 2nd choice rifle. Quite a guessing came.

It will be really interesting to see what happens with the 700 East Canyon muzz tags. There is very little public land there. I think most guys looking for left overs will be hunting public. It could be a really bad thing, especially for the following rifle hunt. Then again, maybe it will be okay as that area is hard to hunt when the leaves are on. We'll soon see!!!

 

[SWAGshootn]

After reading all the posts and thinking about it.... the wasatch will be just fine. It takes a big effort to really hunt it and the number of hunters willing to do that will always be small.
I do however think they should not allow unlimited access to all who have a state archery tag. Those who want it all.... well that is just our society now a days.

About Vernon..... well I think we need to get rid of separate General Season and Limited Entry Deer tags. Make them all fall under one draw. If you want to hunt deer every year, you had better put in for an easier unit. If you want to wait, put in for the Henry's. I think Colorado has it right.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

I could go for the choose trophy or general. (After I draw my limited entry deer!) It would certainly reduce the draw fees hunters are paying and hopefully trophy/commerical hunters would stop stepping on the general hunt. The trophy hunters could cut dates, cut tags, reduce unit sizes and increase fees all they want on their trophy units. I'd have nothing to fight about.

The main problem I see are the deep pocket groups will find a way to turn a disproportionate amount of land into to trophy units. It is already happening with the 30 unit scenario.

 

[tabbyhntr]

the people who love and hunt the wasatch extended are the same people who hunt it every other year, i believe there will be an increase but not as drastic as everyone thinks... most of the newcomers to the area will leave after the first day once they see how tough it actually is!

 

[muleyskinwatcher]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-12 AT 03:47PM (MST)[p]>i think maybe you guys should
>find a few diff areas
>on the front. i hunted
>it the first time two
>years ago did a lot
>of research with maps and
>found an awesome canyon that
>i seen only 2 other
>guys in a week in.
>I seen a buck everyday
>and even some nice ones.
>It was awesome! i had
>a blast! i live in
>southern utah so i only
>hunt it if i dont
>tag out down here. My
>sister lives up in slc
>and i go visit her
>for a week and hunt
>the front its becoming a
>tradition for me and i
>love it. the front is
>meant to keep deer numbers
>in check. maybe what they
>need to do is quit
>doe hunting for a year
>or 2, just bucks only.
>i think the front is
>a huge area and with
>only 15000 archery tags statewide,
>only a fraction of that
>will hunt the front. It
>sounds to me that the
>doe hunt is what is
>causing the problems, Im not
>a front expert but with
>what i saw, there is
>plent y of room for
>a lot of archers. I
>think the front will be
>fine imo.


Sounds like redbutte?? Im sure theres a few good spots left that might not get pounded, last year Ive never seen so many hunters where I usually go, This season of the rutt there will be even more hunters. Ive been up there few times glassing I noticed fewer does and hardly any fawns, I agree with you on hunting does, also needs predator control in some areas, It would be nice if there were fewer hunters or more land, like extending the front from lone peak to hobble creek road and make it archery only, it would also releive pressure of other areas of the front, I know rifle hunters would never let it happen but it would be nice!