Utah Unit 16A Central Mnts Nebo

U

Utarcher123

Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jul-24-12 AT 11:24AM (MST)[p]Been Bow hunting up here for 20 year or more. Have had good and bad years.Never a bad year, just saw fewer animals. Question.Where have all the Deer and Elk gone? I drew up here because I know it like the back of my hand. But have glassed till my eyes are going to fall out. And very few animals. Years ago you would hear Elk everynight.Now nothing. Saw some of the biggest Bucks Ive ever seen up there.Whats going on? Bears? Cougars? I dont get it.
 
TOO MANY TAGS!!!!
At least 2X more LE elk permits than there should be,
coupled with massive spike elk hunting, unlimited
either sex archery elk permits........Too many years..
The unit is toast!

And deer,, new unit management is putting 4,400 buck
deer permits on 16a this year.....I mean REALY!

There are a few more bears than past years, BUT HO lion
hunting has the cats to the lowest numbers I've ever seen
there,,,,cant blame it on the predators ,IMHO.


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What Goofy said plus WAY WAY WAY too many bears. I see at least 3 every time I go up and hike in. In one canyon there are fawn and calf carcusses left and right, with bear scat everywhere.



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Yes there is Alot of bears I got four different bears on my trail cameras. But there is still some good bucks an bulls u just got to do more homework then u would like to do. I am going up to check my cameras again Sunday or Monday.
 
The Nebo needs to be managed as two units, split along Nephi Canyon. Can't say a lot about Mt. Nebo, but I know the Sanpitch.

Keep in mind, the Sanpitch is managed for cattle, not wildlife. Always has been.

Buck/doe ratio is alright, but the population is half of what it was just 5 years ago and half of objective. If the Sanpitch stood on its own numbers, without Mt. Nebo, I suspect the population decline is even worse than that. But even if we banned deer hunting altogether, it wouldn't change that trend.

Three big problems on the Sanpitch - high fawn mortality, severely degraded habitat and out of control poaching.
 
Agreed. I've been hunting elk on that unit for around 12 years and the first several years had elk running around everywhere on that unit. It definitely has declined over the last decade.
 
I hate to burst your bubble but that's not a Central Mnts Nebo problem
Its a state wide general unit problem
 
I just had to weigh in on this topic. Grew up hunting the Nebo-- 40 years plus now-- back backed in-- archery rifle muzzleloader--. Been into about every canyon, spring etc east of the peaks of Nebo to Nebo Creek etc. I have seen tons of deer during good years, lots of elk until 7-8 years ago. The number and size of deer I used to find in the Sawmill, Slab, Bear Canyon, Nebo Creek, Salt Creek etc began to disappear 25 years ago, so I began hunting the east basins of Nebo-- did that for over 25 years-- While there are still a few good bucks in that area it is getting worse and worse. I used to see 100 to 200 deer easily in the mornings while hiking through those basins-- and always a few really good bucks to focus in on in the upcoming hunts- its getting so I am lucky to see 20 to 30 deer now. The Nebo is managed for maximum hunter use-- in other words-- as a former DWR biologist said in a meeting -- 'Nebo is a sacrifice area' It is managed for the Wasatch Front resident hunter- good road access and only 30 minutes away. I was hoping with the 30 unit program that Annis would limit the hunters for a few years and see if that helped. When the tag numbers came out, it looks like the same old story. I questioned him why so many tags and he just said we will adjust it up or down if we need to in the coming years. A former member of the RAC, the Forest Service rep. ,ask for the DWR to double the bear tags for the Nebo area. He went on to say that it has the highest concentration of bears in his management area which was the Cache, Wasatch and Uintah National Forest. Bears are a problem for fawns and calf elk-- don't kid yourselve. They take their piece of the pie every year now. Just less for us. Also, don't kid yourself about the cougar and coyote problem, they take a huge number of animals every year. Some cougars will kill more than 1 per week. They are opportunists-- it doesn't matter if they just killed two days ago, if the opportunity is right, they will kill again. They are incredible predators. One of the biggest reasons that the deer herds grew and flourished so much in the 50's and 60's is because of the widespread use of 1080 poison by cattlemen, ranchers, gov't trappers etc.for controlling predators. As soon as it was banned,herd numbers began to decrease and have reached a point now that in some places fawn production and survival doesn't replace the number of animals that die each year from all causes. They are in a negative growth mode.
It is interesting that sometimes I see almost as many bears as I do deer.
I do give the DWR some credit for --finally-- backing off on the slaughter of elk on the unit. No antlerless tags this year and 25% reduction in LE tags. If they keep it this way for 5 years the unit will make a comeback. Sometimes they are just slow to respond to decreasing herd numbers. I flew part of the unit 2 years ago and in 3 hours of flying in a helicopter we counted exactly "0" elk ! It was was unbelievable but true. I guess that one of the comments made by a biologist fit-- ' I guess we might have overdone it on this unit'. I do think that they are doing their best to keep up with things, but its tough to have the time they need to address problems in every area quickly.
I believe Nebo could(and has) produced some great bucks and bulls. I just hope that we can get the DWR to help it get there again by doing what needs to be done. I think that all the predators ( including us) need to be reduced and give the unit a chance to recover.
 
nebo12000, thanks for the great info. I'm glad you decided to weigh in on this one. I love hunting that area, it's probably my favorite area to hunt. Totally agree, way too many bears. Never seen so many bears and bear sign in my life. I was glad to see also that they cut the cow elk tags this year. I wish they would've done it a few years ago. Hopefully like you said it's another 5 years before they issues those tags again. They need to rebound.

Agreed, 8,9,10 years ago I saw some big bucks and bulls running around that unit.

Let's pray it makes a comeback. It's good to know that they're aware of the issue and are making the necessary changes to help it out.
 
Ya i have also hunted the nebo for many years an have seen some good bucks an bulls. When I drew my elk tag in 09 there was many a handful of big bulls that I was going after but i ended up killing a 315 6*6 with my bow. I hope they do put more tags out for bears because there is more an more every year.
 
Its an awesome place to roam around in for sure. I drew an LE Elk tag way back in '98 and it was the funnest hunt I've ever had. I saw an average of 8-10 6x6 bulls every day and about 20-25 bulls every morning. They were in full rut and it was just awesome. Only 14 LE tagholders on the whole mountain. I think I only saw one other hunter in 8 days. I had my heart set on 350-360 7x7 but couldn't get on him on a couple different occasions. Fatigued got me by the 8th day and I killed a good 325 6x6. It was great, just wished it could be that good for everyone thats draws that unit. Just hoping the DWR folks will let it come back. By the way- if Seth Mc is reading this-- heres hoping you will heal fast and get back on the mountain soon.
 
i agree i live in payson takes me 20 mins give or take to get to the top ive hunted almost every year up there since i could hunt and have seen give or take about 15 decent bull elk and about 5 big nice bucks. ive always wondered why this unit doesnt put out bigger quaility animals i guess you could say. i had my trail cams up there 2 weeks had 2 deer and about 15 elk 1 big bull. i honestly and truly the believe that the dwr needs a little nudge to help get that unit back on its feet as mentioned in the earlier posts
 
nebo loop used to be my favorite place to go on the weekends. I remember when I have caught 2-3 lb brookies out of a particular lake up there. The deer hunting was also incredible back then. It wasnt hard to just drive the roads and see 20 bucks in a day. The elk herds were just getting started.

nebo is one of the best places to draw a cat tag
nebo is one of the best places to hunt bears
they had doe hunts until there were no more does
then they started to have the cow and spike hunts
finished it off with loads of Le elk tags in the rut with 99% success rates.

wonder what we can do to bring it back?

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I agree nebo12000 ...I was all for the change to smaller units. i wish they would have made even more like CO. I too was hoping that they would make the Nebo unit LE for Deer for a few years and see what would happen. I had the LE tag in 05. Had the best time. Saw alot of Elk. Shot a 360 bull. My father in law had the tag in 09. every place we went had no elk! they just weren't there. I was totally disgusted. The elk were over harvested in a matter of three years. So where is the balance? I understand that Elk and Deer compete for the same winter range and that elk will over power the deer. There are no deer on the Payson canyon part of Nebo. So lets harvest a few more Elk and help the deer in that way, but not completely destroy the population.
So what do we have now...
1. no elk
2. to many deer tags given out
3. way to many bear
4. ??????? F&G DO YOU GUYS HAVE YOUR HEADS COMPLETELY UP YOUR A$$?!!
 
Last month I saw a nice bachelor group of bulls and a few 3 year old bucks. Nothing older for deer. Not the deer quality I expected after hiking hard on two seperate trips. Not even close.
 
I just got back from Nebo scouting four different areas for deer for the up coming archery and finally saw one real good buck,I have been scouting the area since the first of June. I am not too thrilled about the lack of mature bucks, mostly smaller bucks and yearlings. I am trying to decide if I will wait for the extended whereI have been seeing some great bucks regularly. For you LE elk hunters I saw two real nice bulls I would say 320+.
 
Had the opportunity to go out with a DWR biologist to count and classify elk. He said he hadn't seen any to classify yet so he thought I might be able find some. We did see 3 elk- right by the road-- 2 spike bulls and 1 yearling cow. All the other places that used to be sure bets for seeing at least nursery herds were bare. I think he is pretty frustrated and very concerned. The unit is not in good shape. I know there are elk there but not in the quanity or quality that the was there even 5 years ago. He said there were a couple of biologists that wanted to give 200 antlerless permits becasue of the Wood Hollow fire, he disagreed and eventually it didn't happen. They decided to see how the winter goes and issue depredation tags if necessary. I was glad to hear that they backed off.
We did see big mature white goat just under the Nebo north peak and a few deer. But, it sure feels more like a bare desert when it comes to deer numbers though. I'm afraid much of the state is like that though. Hope all of you have some great hunting and harvesting over the next few months!
 
It amazes me when you here just because of the fire lets issue cow tags instead of basing it off of heard numbers. Glad they backed off and are taking a wait and see approach. I think too many times they are slow too back off on permits and then the units are in trouble like Nebo is.
 
Was really happy about todays scouting trip seen some really good bucks an bulls. Can't wait until opening weekend!!!!!!
 
Took the horses out all day yesterday on Nebo and was very dissapointed with the lack of deer and elk. In a full days worth of riding, we say two small bucks, 6 doe and a handful of elk. We did see 3 bears and lots of scat. It's sad to see what has happened to the Nebo area within the last 10 years that I have been roaming the area.
 
I agree with most of the others who have spent many years on the Nebo. Overharvesting and poor management. Even 12 years ago there were quite a few nice bucks in that unit. My friend killed a 180 class on the archery and we watched 20 bucks in one bachelor herd. That year on the rifle hunt those deer were slaughtered and the next year could not find a decent buck. Same thing on the elk my friend and his dad killed 366 bull and 384 bulls two consecutive years in a row. After that they doubled the tags and wiped out the herd. When the UDWR asks sportsment to vote on what they would like to see in terms of management one of the questions is would you like to harvest huge bulls or have more opportunity and then they show a picture of a bull to see if the sportsman can accurately field judge the size. I think they made the determination based on the voting that sportsmen wanted more opportunity.

"99% of the failures come from people who have a habit of making excuses" George Washington
 
Set up a couple trail cams the other day-- checked them the next day-- Surprise - or not - Bear, 2 cow elk and ZERO deer. More bear than deer up there it seems.
 
Just off the Nebo Loop road at about 8500 ft. In a place that traditionally holds a good number of elk. It just seems that whenever I go out on the Nebo area I always see bear or lots of bear sign.
 
I have a premium LE elk tag. I have only seen two bulls. Can You help me in any way?
 
Great....That's why there isn't any good bucks & bulls anymore, cause of clowns like you advertising!!
 
I disagree, but I think the answer is let me select a tag, I do not shoot anymore but hunt, but when I did my camp has a standing rule, 4 point or better to shoot. Not less tags but a mix of tags.
 
I have hunted this area for over 50 years, I am finding it harder to access public lands due to owners posting, then they graze on public lands. Cattle and sheep make it harder on bucks elk etc, plus as you say a bear or two and I have seen several kitties.

I am trying right now to force grazing pemit owners to open ROW, that will open a bunch of new ground.
 
B/S thats not the reason. I have hunted areas that the only person I saw was in field glasses. And there were few bucks and teh bulls were gone.
 

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