Another Deer Application Question (utah Wyoming)

[jr8fish]

How does the first, second, third, etc choice options work in Utah and Wyoming for the general deer hunt?

Depending on how it works greatly influences which units I will put in for the subsequent rounds (second and third choice)....

I can see it two ways....

Do they first only consider all the first choices of all the applicants? Meaning do they go through all of the applicants' first choices and then move on to all the applicants second choices.... All the first choices are done in one round and the second choices are done in another round?

The other way I could see it done is that when your number is called they first look at your first choice, if that permit is available they give it to you, if your first choice is not available then they look at your second choice and so forth.

So which way is it.... Any insight is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[nontypical]

Wyoming goes through everyone's first choice before they go to anyone's second choice.I think Utah is the same.

 

[travishunter3006]

They shave off one point layer at a time. first goes the first selection then if there are tags leftover in an area then they go to the 2nd choice appplicants, and so on etc.

 

[stillhunterman]

Yep

Utah:

From the division page:
"How preference points work in the general-season drawing: Starting with the highest point level, the drawing looks at the hunter's first choice. If a permit is available for the hunt, the permit is awarded. (In the case of a group application, permits are awarded if there are enough permits for the people in the group.) If permits are not available, the application is skipped and the first choice of the next person is considered. After all first choices have been considered at that preference point level, the drawing will start looking at the second choices within that point level. This process continues in the same way for third, fourth and fifth choices. When the drawing is done for the highest point level, the process repeats for each point level down"

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

 

[jr8fish]

Thanks for the responses.

It seems odd to me that they would consider the second-fifth choices of a higher tier of preference points before they would consider the first choice of lower tiers of preference points.


Let me explain, you gain a preference point every time you dont draw your first choice, and you lose your preference points every time you draw your first choice. Well lets say that a guy, John, has several preference points (not the most, but several). Well, John, is in a prime situation...

If all the general deer units have a ranking from 1 (the best) to 30 (the worst)(lets just say it is that clear cut). John, with several points, can put in his first choice for the best rated general unit and then he can put his second choice as a really good unit just not the best of the best... so lets say his second choice is the unit ranked 5th. Well when the draw happens, lets say he doesnt draw his first choice (cuz he didnt have the most points) but since he has several points he draws his second choice (which is still a very good unit, 5th best out of thirty). He is in a prime situation because he gets to hunt in a very good general unit (albeit his second choice) and he does not forfeit his pref points, in fact he gains one. This all happens before old Joe (a second hunter with 0 preference points) has even been considered (cuz he has no points). Old Joe has no preference points but wants to hunt that year so he puts his first choice as a unit that is lower on the ranking scale, say 25th. Joe sees from the drawing odds that without any pref points his drawing odds are abysmal for the better rated units. Well, Joe draws his poor unit with his first choice.. At the end of the day old Joe gets screwed. He draws a crappy unit and does not get a pref point. Whereas John is riding high because he gets to hunt a great unit and still keeps his pref points and in fact gains one point for the next year. It seems from this scenario that if you have several pref points you can use the system to your advantage and possibly get several good general hunts for a few years before you lose your points.

Does this seem flawed to anybody else? I am kinda just thinking out loud here.

It seems they should consider the first choice of all applicants (at all pref point levels)before they look at the second choices of people with high p points.

 

[stillhunterman]

Been addressed before and kinda just pushed aside. Maybe it can be looked at again this year with a bit more attention.

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

 

[jr8fish]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13 AT 04:39PM (MST)[p]Stillhunterman

Thanks for the responses.

You seem to know a lot about this...

Are you saying that it has been brought up before on this website... or it has been brought up to the dwr and they pushed it aside?

I was just sitting in my office at lunch and the thought dawned on me that the way it is right now does not seem to be totally fair.

 

[RoadlessHunter]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13 AT 05:24PM (MST)[p]This is Utah's system

I am not sure why people keep thinking 2nd choice gets tags before a first choice.

All Fist choice go into the draw and only first choice can draw on round one. In the case that all first choice get a tag before tags run out them a second choice can get a tag that didn't draw their first choice.

Example 1

500 tags for a unit

100 fist choice all draw
350 second choice all draw
100 third choice 50 will draw

Example 2

500 tags for a unit

1000 first choice 500 draw 500 don't
50 second choice No second choice can draw
400 third choice No third choice can draw


So, a 2nd - 5th choice can't draw before a first choice.

I also believe they don't use points after 1st choice. I think 2nd-5th is a random draw.

 

[stillhunterman]

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13
>AT 05:24?PM (MST)
>
>This is Utah's system
>
>I am not sure why people
>keep thinking 2nd choice gets
>tags before a first choice.
>
>
>All Fist choice go into the
>draw and only first choice
>can draw on round one.
> In the case that
>all first choice get
>a tag before tags run
>out them a second choice
>can get a tag that
>didn't draw their first choice.
>
>
>Example 1
>
>500 tags for a unit
>
>100 fist choice
>all draw
>350 second choice all draw
>
>100 third choice 50
>will draw
>
>Example 2
>
>500 tags for a unit
>
>1000 first choice
>500 draw 500 don't
>50 second choice
>No second choice can draw
>
>400 third choice
>No third choice can draw
>
>
>
>So, a 2nd - 5th choice
>can't draw before a first
>choice.
>
>I also believe they don't use
>points after 1st choice.
>I think 2nd-5th is a
>random draw.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

http://wildlife.utah.gov/dwr/hunting/hunting-permits/681-utahs-hunting-permit-drawings

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org

 

[stillhunterman]

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-13
>AT 04:39?PM (MST)
>
>Stillhunterman
>
>Thanks for the responses.
>
>You seem to know a lot
>about this...
>
>Are you saying that it has
>been brought up before on
>this website... or it has
>been brought up to the
>dwr and they pushed it
>aside?
>
>I was just sitting in my
>office at lunch and the
>thought dawned on me that
>the way it is right
>now does not seem to
>be totally fair.

Yeah, it's been hashed over at the Wildlife Board meetings. For whatever reasons, they pushed it down the road to be delt with at a later time I suppose. I have stopped trying to figure out why they do the things they do, but continue to voice my concerns.

www.unitedwildlifecooperative.org