Is it all about the money for Utah?

[XPB]

So, I called the DWR today having a buddy interested in coming from back east to hunt the extended archery with me. I know it is late and chances were that archery tags were sold out out, but I thought I would call and try. It seemed that there were some units that did not sell out so I thought he might be able to still get a tag and then we would be able to try our luck on the extended archery. Here is what the DWR told me....

The lady told me all tags had sold out for the rifle hunt. I told her I thought their were archery tags still left for a unit or two? She said, "if the tags don't sell out by the time the hunt starts, they roll into the muzzel loader hunt and become muzzel loader tags and if they don't sell out there, then they roll into rifle tags. I personally don't agree with this. I think if the hunt starts and the tags are still left then the tags are washed away. I feel this is better for a unit that not many people want to hunt anyways, because the deer numbers usually are not as good. If the tags were washed out when the hunt started, then that would hopefully mean less hunters on each hunt and more deer in the long run. The unit would then maybe get better over time? The state of Utah in my opinion could really careless about how good the hunting is, otherwise they would not do this.

I think if they think their is a chance that one hunter might kill a 2 point buck on a mountain, then heck give out a bunch of tags and at least these guys can think they are hunting when hiking all over the hills. Most people these days just make deer hunting an excuse to go camping which is great, but how much more fun would it be to pass up on a few bigger bucks before actually taking a good buck. Maybe I am dreaming, but small steps in the right direction with the state would mean maybe one day our kids would have a decent chance at not just killing the first two point they see.

How do you guys feel about the state rolling left over tags into the next hunt? No wonder the rifle hunt is always crazy!

 

[Muley_73]

No I do not agree. I would not even mind if they are left after the draw if they gone. The money could still be made. Just set up the system like Idaho and not pay for your tag until you pick it up. The price of the tag each year would be based on how many tags where applied for and drawn. Less tags the cost is higher, more tags the cost is less. That way the DWR gets the dollars they are counting on and the leftover tags dont have to be sold.

 

[jr8fish]

I think it is absolutely ridiculous to roll tags over. I can see no other reason for doing this other than to MAKE MORE MONEY.

This is a perpetual cycle that is making some units very, very bad to hunt.

The units that do not sell out of archery and muzzleloader tags are not the best units... hence they do not sell out. I think all hunters would agree that the success rates of killing a buck increases in this order: archery (being the lowest success rate), muzzleloader, then rifle.

So the units that do not sell out of archery and muzzleloader tags get hit worse every year. The low success rate tags get turned into high success rate rifle tags. They already allot a certain number of rifle tags based on the deer numbers of the unit. Then they go and add more rifle tags to the unit if the lower success rate tags do not sell. Doesnt the DWR profess that the number of rifle tags issued for a unit (or any tag for that matter) is precisely calculated based on herd buck to doe ratio? Or is it simply the total number of tags that are managed? Certainly the dwr is smart enough to know that archery and muzzleloader tags have a much lower success rate than the rifle tag.

Each subsequent year the unit gets worse, because less and less archers and smokepolers hunt the unit (because it is getting worse) and more and more rifle tags are given out because more archery and muzzleloader tags are rolling over... and the process continues until every single two point on the mountain will be shot and killed.

It is a very sad story, and it is happening to a few of the units I like to hunt around SLC. SAD, SAD, SAD!

 

[BrowningRage]

I think it goes to show they are hung up on deer numbers rather than quality. I dont know how they can justify issuing a rifle tag where an archery tag was allotted when considering the harvest forecast on a particular unit.

I have to agree that trading tags of less effective weaponry (bows and muzzies) for highly effective weaponry tags (rifles) is a poor choice. Tag numbers should be based on the numbers for each weapon, not an overall tag objective in the unit.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[seven]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-13 AT 02:00PM (MST)[p]I don't know if I agree with the process, but it is stated in the 2013 Utah Big Game Field Reg book on page 8, right column.

 

[Stonefly]

I'd like to know,... how the tags are allocated after the draw?. Ok so after the draw, if the tags aren't drawn, they go on sale. At what point after that do they decide to change them into muzzel load or rifle tags. And then How do they decide who buy's them?

 

[XPB]

According to my understanding they allocate a certain amount of tags for each weapon on each unit. When say the archery hunt starts or ends any left over tags become muzzle loader tags that are available on a first come first serve basis. This is crap and needs to be brought up in rack meetings!

 

[2buckridge]

The Utah fish and lame are about nothin but money. They could care less about the Deer and Elk herds, just as long as they can pad their greedy filthy assed pockets with our money!

 

[Dr_Hunter]

Send them your complaints at "[email protected]" Every now and then I get a response. They need to hear our opinions.



I don't think there is any other quality
so essential to success of any kind as the
quality of perseverance. It overcomes
almost everything, even nature.
-John D. Rockefeller

 

[deerslayer88]

Sent them a letter, I don't archery hunt yet. Thinking about it for next year though as I have seen big bucks on the extended hunting elk and I like the fact that I can have a rut hunt.

 

[O_S_O_K]

I think Muley_73 said it very well.



"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln

 

[soutahhunter]

I agree with all of you. I thought this process of going to smaller units was to more easily manage the number of tags given out in order to help the buck to doe ratio. If you just rollover tags not sold in a unit from archery to muzzle and rifle it would seem you would just be increasing the odds of killing and thus reducing the number of bucks killed which is exactly what DWR is supposedly trying to control.

 

[soutahhunter]

Sorry what I meant was it would actually increase the number of bucks killed once tags are rolled over to muzzle and rifle which is what we all hoped would not happen. The small units are supposed to help with better management of this problem not increase the problem. What is wrong with not selling every archery tag, so a couple more bucks live, I think most hunters would appreciate it.

 

[Truelife]

I'd like to add my two cents and agree on this one as well. They buffalo is with the way tag numbers are calculated using weapon success ratios and yet when tags go undersold that goes straight out the window.

There is also an issuse of an overlapping cow elk unit near my home. There is a mountain range that the elk winter on and this range is in two units so that herd gets a double whammy. The DWR knows about it and has for years. Their response is that they are "trouble elk" because they get on the road.

Two facts that are well know are

#1 the dwr installed a tall deer fence to keep deer and elk off the road. Problem is that they installed it ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE ROAD!

#2 ten years ago those elk did come down into the fields in the winter but the farmers chased them off every time with their ATV's and now it is VERY rare to see an elk down off the mountain at all, even on heavy snow years.

It just seems that they are always trying to slip a fast one in somewhere all the time. I would love to give them the benefit of the doubt and try to keep a positive attitude about it all.

They sure do make that hard most of the time though.

Good fieldcare leads to great mounts