Make Timpanogos the next Henry Mtns

sharpshinned

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Ok guys...isn't there a way we can make the Mt. Timpanogos Mountain a premier Limited Entry Unit? It has the size, the deer numbers, winter foothills and the genetics. Yeah, yeah...I know...there are a lot of hunters that love to hunt that mountain every year. But, the time has come. Let's put our heads together with a plan to make Timpanogos another premier unit. It will take 15 years. But, I think it can be done. Is it possible?
 
Prepare yourself a Battle with many StickFlippers!












I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
This was talked about to try/do on Loafer..

Making it a 'sub' LE part of the Nebo unit.

Just too muck oppisition from the oppertunity crowd.


4aec49a65c565954.jpg
 
>Ok guys...isn't there a way we
>can make the Mt. Timpanogos
>Mountain a premier Limited Entry
>Unit? It has the size,
>the deer numbers, winter foothills
>and the genetics. Yeah, yeah...I
>know...there are a lot of
>hunters that love to hunt
>that mountain every year. But,
>the time has come. Let's
>put our heads together with
>a plan to make Timpanogos
>another premier unit. It will
>take 15 years. But, I
>think it can be done.
>Is it possible?


While we are really stretching out to grasp for straws. Lets also outlaw motorized/Mechanised means of travel unless on paved roads.

Niether will ever happen. But I would rather never see never see another dirt bike up there than limited entry. I would be fine if both happened though.
 
I brought up the concept of taking "small" areas inside of some general season units and making them LE areas. The reason I thought that might work came as a result of reading and studying V. Geist and other wildlife biologists info in regards to the "space" that mature buck deer prefer to live in. Perhaps, if we could set up LE areas, that as the buck population grows and the area a buck needs becomes too congested for his liking , an outward migration may push many bucks onto the surrounding general unit hunting areas. Maybe this would be a way to increase quality and quantity of bucks without taking away as much opportunity and tag numbers than if we just made an entire unit an LE unit. What do you think?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-13 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]I love to shoot big bucks, and bulls!

But that is not what it is about for everyone.
Believe it or not there are people that want to take their kids hunting once in a while. They like the idea of camping and hanging out with friends more than once every 15 years....and hunting deer at the same time.

We almost have half of the State as a LE unit already.
Should we look at every unit, and if it has: Potential....then limit it? I do not think so.

I am totally opposed to the idea of creating any more LE units in Utah, we have enough.

The entire State is now limited anyway. Right?

Let's focus our efforts on creating more Does, last time I checked they were the only deer that were having babies.
 
+2 to bowhunt's comments.

The folks in Cedar Hills would have a cow if the herd was increased. The deer already winter right in town.

IF you really feel a need for more LE units, Timp isn't the best choice (or even in the top 10).

Zeke
 
Honestly I think this idea has merit for both sides of the argument. Creating small 'LE' areas within general areas, in my mind will create better opportunity. All the while lessening the bumper jam that is Utah's current situation. It stands to reason that some of those deer that would be on the small LE ground would move on to public while some would move off.

This should create a more sustainable population....

https://www.facebook.com/strawberrybayoutfitters
 
With General Season units the way they are, the whole state is LE now anyway... All you are really talking about is reducing the tag numbers in one of those areas down to something comparable to the Henry's (30 rifle tags)...

If that is the case, couldn't we just do that with every large mountain peak..? Designate an area around it as LE and offer 10 tags..?? We could have 50 LE deer units in Utah, all found within a general season deer unit...

In fact, why dont we start splitting up the current LE units as well..?? The Henry's could be two units easily, just draw a line through the middle of it. We could do LE on Boulder Mtn, East and West units.

I think I'm gonna pull up a map and see just how many of these things we could do. Then the whole state will be like the Henry's... Right..?


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
....or we could just stop all hunting.
Can you imagine how many huge bucks we'd have?
We'd have millions! Right?

It would end up like the LE units are now. It's a great resource but YOU can't hunt it!

Who's to say what the right balance should be between LE and general tags anyway? I'd be happy hunting general deer just once every 5 year (and pay 10x more for the tag) if there were big bucks but most guys do not feel the same. They don't have the means or moxy to hunt elsewhere so, right or wrong, the general hunt is all they have.

Do trophy hunters have more of a right to the resource than the opportunity hunters? Does a guy who holds out for a 4pt have more rights than a guy who shoots the first 2 pt he sees? Will another LE unit produce more fawns/does?

I'm kind of a combination between a taker and a trophy hunter so I certainly can see both sides and one shouldn't have more right to the game than the other.

Interesting stuff to think about.
Zeke
 
+1 Zeke

Some years I'm a trophy hunter and some years I'm a meat hunter. So I can see both sides also.
 
I hate the idea of making more limited entry units. I think we should get rid of the them completely and make every unit in the same system that way guys who want to wait can wait those that don't and want to hunt every year can have a better chance at getting their tag win win for everyone!!
 
I doubt that Timp would ever become a viable LE candidate. As Zeke mentioned, the cities that border the unit already have significant problems with the current deer herd. Canyon Road in Cedar Hills is a deer graveyard during the during the winter and early spring, Highland instituted a city archery hunt to help control the deer population, and Pleasant Grove, Lindon, and Orem also have road kill and property damage issues. I cannot imagine that these cities, or the DWR, would support increasing the herd size on Timp.
 
Instead of making it LE make it Limited Access. No dirtbikes, or motor vehicles on that road for a couple+ years. There is plenty of access to that mountain on foot. And its not like there are no other roads that those who have mobility issues can't hunt on the unit. There is a lot of access on that unit, so the opportunity hunters would still have the opportunity elsewhere, while those who are more inclined to chase mature deer have a better opportunity if they are willing to pack in on horse or foot.

If you need to manage the herd for winter, open it up to the archers from that particular unit who didn't punch their tag during the regular hunt to hunt it on the extended.

I think that every unit in the state could benefit from such a program. Restricting different parts of different units for a few years at a time isn't a bad thing. Those that still want to hunt the area can with more effort, and they can still return to the area when access is restored.

I'm curious to see if anyone else thinks this would work.
 
"Those that still want to hunt the area can with more effort, and they can still return to the area when access is restored."

That's funny. Once it's gone, it's gone. Oh yeah, there are others that use the areas that don't hunt. Hunting is just one land use. Not as high on everyone's priority list as others. Dirt bikes and atv's have as much right to be on public land as anyone else.
 
Agreed they do have the right to use it just as much as anyone else. But closing 1 road and a few trails for the archery, then muzz then any weapon hunt isn't that big of a deal IMO.

I'm still having a hard time seeing the humor that caused you to think my comment was funny? Just because something is one way doesn't mean it needs to stay that way. The road will still be open year round, just closed down during the hunt dates?

Benefits from my perspective:
1)Better more mature deer population in a normally heavy access area
2)increase safety. With less people running around on atv's dirtbikes and even hunters afield less chance of an accident (I know hunting accidents are rare, but they do happen)
3)Less chance of Bess needing to come outta the basin and give a tuneup
4)When (not if) When access is restored, the area is a much better hunt for those who return.
5)more opportunities for archery hunters

Cons from where I sit:
1)Less access on the unit for those with mobility issues
2)Less area for casual hunters (which is probably the majority on that road)
3)8 Less weeks a year that outdoor enthusiasts won't be able to traverse the trails and that road in that area.

I understand that the mountain isn't just for hunters. I'm not saying close the road year round. Just limit access during hunt dates.

Please help me understand why this is a bad idea. I'd like to get more perspective if my angles are skewed.
 
why it's a bad idea...

CAUSE IT LIMITS ACCESS TO PUBLIC GROUND!!!! That's why. How many times have you seen an existing road/trail re-opened after the forest service/BLM closes it? Yeah, that's what I thought, NEVER! (excluding winter closures of course).

Dammmn, now I'm typing like BessyCat. You wanna kill a monster buck in your back yard...hunt harder, longer, further in, deeper canyons, than everyone else...then, lay off the trigger when a 'nice' buck presents itself. Good luck to ya.
 
Easy Sneak!:D:D:D

The Illegal Wheeler Access on the South Slope has perty much destroyed most of it!

I won't argue with you Sneak where you Hunt/Your neck of the Woods but when the USFS closes a Road/or think they've Closed a Road around here,they built a Whoppin 1 foot Berm and a scrawny Flimsy Fiberglass sign that don't even last through Archery Season,let alone the Pumpkin Patch!

It's a FRICKEN JOKE!

How many Wheelers do know of that won't deliberately go over a 1 foot Berm?

You're right Sneak,there's quite a few that will destroy it for the Rest!

When the USFS & DWR finally wisens up it'll be way too late,it's already too late!


I hate to say it Sneak because me & you agree on most things when it comes to Hunting,but where I spend most of my time We'd be way better off without the LAZY,LAW-BREAKIN BITTCCHES on their ATV's runnin every Nook & Cranny they can get their handle Bars through!

Yes,I know there are a lot of Law Abiding people on ATV's out there too,too bad the UN-ETHICAL BASTARDS will Ruin it for all!

I'll say it again,I've said it a Million times!

The Banner days of Mule Deer are gone,they ain't coming back!

It's not just ATV's!

It's a combination of more than 30 things and fixing just one of the 30 Ain't gonna put a big enough dent in the Problems to worry about it!

She's over with Boys!

Won't be long and a Spike/2 Point will be considered a Trophy in TARDville!














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I've tried that... Hunting harder, longer, further in,deeper canyons, than everyone else... And a guy on a dirt bike road right past me. There are places that motorized transportation does not belong!
 
ill tell what boys, get rid of the preds,close the roads for a couple years'get rid of atvs, see what you get,
 
I hate the dirt bikes too. Either its NO motorized vehicles or its all motorized vehicles. Nothing worse, like mentioned above, to be hiking on a trail for 1 hour, then to hear the horrible sound as they fly right by you.
 
Making smaller LE units inside of general season units will only cause problems with ignorant people who choose to hunt where ever they want. I saw dozens of people this year during the general season hunt, hunting on a cwmu that wasn't posted very well. Because the public road went through the cwmu, everyone thought they could hunt that land.....UTARDS.....
 
get rid of the cwmu,they have done nothing for deer, just a money making deal for the owners.
 
ADA would have a huge issue this it, SEE huge lawsuit looming.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-13 AT 02:55PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-13 AT 02:53?PM (MST)

"You wanna kill a monster buck in your back yard...hunt harder, longer, further in, deeper canyons, than everyone else...then, lay off the trigger when a 'nice' buck presents itself. Good luck to ya."

+1000

Many have come to think the only way to kill a big buck anymore is LE this or LE that or maybe heading to the state just east of us. Maybe so and maybe not, but I do know this- there are big ass deer in EVERY unit in Utah and Ive seen some smoker bucks taken out of 2 of them this year that people in the Pauns and Henrys would not pass on!

Edited- If you ever were going to do a new LE unit (trust me I don't want it) that would thrive, it must be remote and not greatly populated. i.e. Pine Valley would be one as such.
 
>get rid of the cwmu,they have
> done nothing for deer,
> just a money making
>deal for the owners.


Hey elkun?

If tonight at the RAC meeting 2 more CWMU's are approve that'll make 118 altogether!

Does that Chap your Ass?














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
I won't Argue there ain't a few Big Bucks in each Unit!

Percentage wise,How many Mature Bucks are taken?

The couple/few I know of are still alive & Well and so Smart they are almost 100% Nocturnal or thay'll Die!

I know of a couple Decent Bucks taken on 2 different Mountain Ranges where I Hunt,I said 'Decent',not Huge,they gotta live past age 3 to become something!

Deer Numbers on the 2 Ranges Lower than I've ever seen them!

Most Hunters with the Attitude:I'll shoot a PISSCUTTER if I have to,might be a few years before I pull another General Tag,I'm taking a Deer Home,Well,there goes most of what's left!













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
elkassassin, 118 ,and how many tags do they get? wake up gen hunters,get rid of the cwmu,rip off,
 
This thread has caught my attention. There is no good answer and there is opposition in all things that's what makes ones idea better to one and worse to another.

I am one who dislikes CWMU's I'm not saying they are all bad. But it has evolved from opening closed private ground to hunters. To closing private ground that people have hunted for years with no issues.

I looked at the DWR website and there are approx. 2,153,000 acres of CWMU and the numbers grow every year. I could not find a number on tags they give out.

I would be curious to know if private landowners really care how much hunting took place on there property or if its all about getting a few extra bucks every year? If its the money they are after lets think about this? How many hunters live in the state that hunt in the state? Deer, Elk, Antelope, ect. Just basing this off deer roughly 87,000 permits not counting CWMU's or the people who didn't draw. Say a deer tag cost $100 seems expensive? Ya it is but if it opened up areas(CWMU's) for the common guy to hunt and could hunt it with family and friends doesn't seem as bad. The deer budget could go from 3.48 million to 8.7 million just from deer hunters. I wonder how much land the DWR or the general public could lease for the common guy each year with 5.2 million just from deer hunters.

Just food for thought. Kinda get tired of the complaining when no one wants to think of a way to fix the problem.
 

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